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(Topic ID: 261208)

EBD - Multiplier Targets down at startup?


By nwkadm

8 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 18 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 months ago by nwkadm
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#1 8 months ago

I have an Eight Ball Deluxe and am rebuilding the flippers - I have the lower left and upper left completed so far. After completion of the upper left, upon startup of the game, the multiplier targets (2x, 3x, 4x, 5x) drop when the game is powered up and never come back up. The game plays fine and the flippers are working fine - any ideas?

#2 8 months ago

Well, since EBD does not have solenoids on the individual multiplier targets, I would have to assume that the problem is with the reset solenoid.

When a new ball starts, do the targets pop up and then drop back down, or do they not come up at all?

If they don't come up at all, then likely the reset solenoid is not functioning. If they come up and then fall, likely something is preventing them from coming up all the way (keeping them from "locking" onto the playfield edge).

#3 8 months ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Well, since EBD does not have solenoids on the individual multiplier targets, I would have to assume that the problem is with the reset solenoid.
When a new ball starts, do the targets pop up and then drop back down, or do they not come up at all?
If they don't come up at all, then likely the reset solenoid is not functioning. If they come up and then fall, likely something is preventing them from coming up all the way (keeping them from "locking" onto the playfield edge).

The targets do not come up at all - when you mention "reset solenoid", can you point me in the right direction to locate that? Also, is it something I can measure with a DVM and if so, what are good/bad readings?

TIA

#4 8 months ago

The target bank is reset (moved into an "up" position), by the reset solenoid (i.e. coil) on the bottom (closest to the flippers) of the whole drop target assembly.

This coil should fire at the start of each new ball, pushing the targets into their raised position. It sounds to me that the coil is not firing. Most likely, either the wires going to it are not connected properly, or perhaps the coil itself has failed.

I can't say for certain, but I would expect the coil to get about 40V-DC sent to it (for a second or two) when a new ball is started.

#5 8 months ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

The target bank is reset (moved into an "up" position), by the reset solenoid (i.e. coil) on the bottom (closest to the flippers) of the whole drop target assembly.
This coil should fire at the start of each new ball, pushing the targets into their raised position. It sounds to me that the coil is not firing. Most likely, either the wires going to it are not connected properly, or perhaps the coil itself has failed.
I can't say for certain, but I would expect the coil to get about 40V-DC sent to it (for a second or two) when a new ball is started.

So upon investigation of the Solenoid Driver Board, I am finding that Q14 (explains why my Drop Target #2 is not working), Q23, and U4 appear to be bad. The current symptoms I am having are - Multiplier Drop Targets down and will not reset, Right Flipper works once on startup and then intermittently (push flipper button and no response), and the #2 drop target not working. I am not finding or seeing where Q23 and U4 come into play with the multiplier drop targets - what am I missing?

#6 8 months ago

Unfortunately, I am travelling on business this week, so can't really help until this weekend.
I will try to look into it then.

#7 8 months ago

Q14 is the transistor for drop target 2/10 (pull down) AND the bonus x drops "4 drop target reset".

Q23 looks like it's part of the 190V regulator for the displays.

U4 seems to have a lot of functions: left slingshot, 7/15 drop target (pull down). It also seems to be related to the flippers, if you look at page 45 of https://www.ipdb.org/files/762/Bally_1981_Eight_Ball_Deluxe_English_Manual_Model_1220_includes_paginated_schematics.pdf

#8 8 months ago

Sounds like you could have problems with the solenoid driver board 5v jumper. Check the jumper on J3 pins 13-25 of the solenoid driver and make sure its not loose. Remove the board and resolder the pins on J3 and around the flipper relay.

#9 8 months ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

Sounds like you could have problems with the solenoid driver board 5v jumper. Check the jumper on J3 pins 13-25 of the solenoid driver and make sure its not loose. Remove the board and resolder the pins on J3 and around the flipper relay"

I am not following you on your statement "Check the jumper on J3 pins 13-25" Are you referring to the connector that attaches to the pins?

Also - where is the Flipper Relay located on this board - sorry for all the questions - just trying to learn.

TIA

#10 8 months ago

What I also failed to mentioned is the the Right Flipper problem did not start until I did a total rebuild on it - I replaced all the parts and the Coil. Once I got finished and fired up the game, the flipper worked once when I hit the button and then died - it will now work once then quit for a while and so on.

#11 8 months ago

Have you verified recommendations above?

#12 8 months ago

The flipper is a stand alone circuit from the rest of the game. Since the flipper problem started after you rebuilt it you should start there. Check the adjustment of the EOS. You should be setting the EOS by pressing in on the plunger with your finger and not turning the flipper. The EOS is normally closed and should open at about 80% of the flip stroke. Also the left flipper is s double flipper switch. The EOSs should be adjusted so it's 'break-make' with the upper flipper.
If this all checks out look over the SD board as I describe above. You have a flaky connection in the flipper circuit.

#13 8 months ago
Quoted from Madmax541:

Have you verified recommendations above?

I have parts on order and once they arrive, will replace and report back.

#14 8 months ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

The flipper is a stand alone circuit from the rest of the game. Since the flipper problem started after you rebuilt it you should start there. Check the adjustment of the EOS. You should be setting the EOS by pressing in on the plunger with your finger and not turning the flipper. The EOS is normally closed and should open at about 80% of the flip stroke. Also the left flipper is s double flipper switch. The EOSs should be adjusted so it's 'break-make' with the upper flipper.
If this all checks out look over the SD board as I describe above. You have a flaky connection in the flipper circuit.

Thanks - I will work on checking these items this weekend - appreciate everyone's responses.

#15 8 months ago
Quoted from nwkadm:

Thanks - I will work on checking these items this weekend - appreciate everyone's responses.

So I did some checking as we discussed above - I replace Q14 and Q22 & Q23 just to be safe. The game will initialize and the right flipper will fire once and then stop (all 3 flippers sound strong when they fired). The multiplier targets are down and do not reset. I looked over the Power Module board and measured the voltage on Tp1 - 7.8v, TP2 - 245v, TP3 - 12.8v, TP4- 0v, & TP5, 47.8v - voltage seems high a little compared to what it should be and 0v at TP4. I looked at J3 on Solenoid Driver board and all looked good but I heated and reflowed pins as stated above - I am lost - is there anyway to check or known if the Solenoid Driver board is good - is there a way to know the outputs of the U1, U2, U3, & U4?

#16 8 months ago

You do sound a bit lost. Lets simplify this. You say the right flipper fires once and stops. That sounds easy to troubleshoot. First step is to make sure there is 43v on the flipper coil. That's an unfused solid brown wire.
Get the game in mode where the flipper is not firing. Check for 43v at the flipper. If it's there pressing the flipper button should send a ground to the other side of the coil. Lets figure out why the ground is not getting there.
You need a ground test wire. The frame of the game will work for that. Temporarily connect a test wire to any convenient ground like the frame or ground braid. Momentarily shorting that ground wire to the flipper wire should make it fire.
Now, how does ground get to the flipper to make it fire? Ground leaves the rectifier board at J2-2 and travels to each flipper switch. It leaves the right flipper switch and arrives at the SD board at j2-1, travels through the relay and departs the SD board for the playfield at J1-8.
What you need to do is short ground to each of those points until you find a wire that shorting ground to will not make the flipper fire. I'm thinking along the way we'll find a bad connection also affecting the coils.

#17 8 months ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

You do sound a bit lost. Lets simplify this. You say the right flipper fires once and stops. That sounds easy to troubleshoot. First step is to make sure there is 43v on the flipper coil. That's an unfused solid brown wire.
Get the game in mode where the flipper is not firing. Check for 43v at the flipper. If it's there pressing the flipper button should send a ground to the other side of the coil. Lets figure out why the ground is not getting there.
You need a ground test wire. The frame of the game will work for that. Temporarily connect a test wire to any convenient ground like the frame or ground braid. Momentarily shorting that ground wire to the flipper wire should make it fire.
Now, how does ground get to the flipper to make it fire? Ground leaves the rectifier board at J2-2 and travels to each flipper switch. It leaves the right flipper switch and arrives at the SD board at j2-1, travels through the relay and departs the SD board for the playfield at J1-8.
What you need to do is short ground to each of those points until you find a wire that shorting ground to will not make the flipper fire. I'm thinking along the way we'll find a bad connection also affecting the coils.

Thanks for the reply BigAl56....I tested the brown wire (2 switches had double brown wires) and got 45.5 VDC output from each. To make sure I am understanding the next steps, you want me to take a jumper wire, touch it to each of these 3 terminals (J2-2 of Rectifier Board, J2-1 of Solenoid Driver board, and J1-8 of Solenoid Driver board and then momentarily touch the wire to each of these terminals 1 at a time while also touching ground which should make the right or left flipper fire - correct?

#18 8 months ago
Quoted from nwkadm:

Thanks for the reply BigAl56....I tested the brown wire (2 switches had double brown wires) and got 45.5 VDC output from each.

Tested the 3 flippers and the 2 left flippers fire when test wire connected to flipper wire and frame - the right flipper does not fire. When touching J2-2, no fire, J2-1 no fire, J1-8 no fire. As I mentioned above, 45.5 vdc output to brown wire.

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