(Topic ID: 262555)

EBD LE - Tilt switch oddness and boot up issue


By Dewey68

47 days ago



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  • 24 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 35 days ago by Quench
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 47 days ago

Trying to finalize an EBD LE. I have a couple of issues left. 1) The tilt plumb bob and the slam tilt next to it aren't working correctly. When I test the slam tilt in the switch test, the bottom pop bumper fires. When I test the tilt plumb bob, the right pop bumper fires. 2) Sometimes when the pin starts up, the MPU doesn't boot properly. I get all the flashes, but it doesn't finish. Power cycling it a few times will get it to boot properly.

Background: The pin has an Alltek solenoid driver board and all connectors have been replaced going to it. The MPU board is original, and all pins and connectors have been replaced on it.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

#2 46 days ago
Quoted from Dewey68:

1) The tilt plumb bob and the slam tilt next to it aren't working correctly. When I test the slam tilt in the switch test, the bottom pop bumper fires. When I test the tilt plumb bob, the right pop bumper fires.

Make sure your other hand isn't touching ground when you test those switches because you'll get phantom switch activations in the switch matrix.

Quoted from Dewey68:

2) Sometimes when the pin starts up, the MPU doesn't boot properly. I get all the flashes, but it doesn't finish. Power cycling it a few times will get it to boot properly.

What exactly does it do after all 7 LED flashes when it won't boot? What state is the LED at that time? on, off or dim?

#3 45 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Make sure your other hand isn't touching ground when you test those switches because you'll get phantom switch activations in the switch matrix.

What exactly does it do after all 7 LED flashes when it won't boot? What state is the LED at that time? on, off or dim?

Tested again with the playfield down and not touching anything other than the tilt bob and the slam, and got nothing this time.

I was wrong on the booting. When it doesn't boot, the LED stays bright with no flashes.

#4 45 days ago
Quoted from Dewey68:

Tested again with the playfield down and not touching anything other than the tilt bob and the slam, and got nothing this time.

Are any of the coin switches working? Have you checked continuity from the MPU J3 connector wires to the tilt/slam switches?

Quoted from Dewey68:

I was wrong on the booting. When it doesn't boot, the LED stays bright with no flashes.

If you manually reset the CPU (very briefly short pin 39 to pin 40 which are the top two left pins at U9) does the board then boot up?

#5 44 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Are any of the coin switches working? Have you checked continuity from the MPU J3 connector wires to the tilt/slam switches?

Following on, below is the cabinet/coin door schematic detailing the wire color codes and where the wires come from. Please note the first diagram is one I had lying around from an earlier Bally game where the slam switch and tilt switch share a common wire marked "ST1" (Strobe #1). EBD does not follow this and has separate strobe wires for the tilt and slam switches. See the lower schematic in yellow which is from Eight Ball Deluxe.

The Tilt mech switch uses a wire marked "ST0" (Strobe #0) which happens to also go to the start button. We can presume this wire is ok.
The Slam switch uses a wire marked "ST1" (Strobe #1) which happens to also go to the coin switches. We can presume this wire is ok.
It leaves a Blue-Orange wire on the Tilt mech marked "I6" (which is switch return 6) that is potentially open circuit.
And the Slam switch has a Yellow wire marked "I7" (switch return 7) that is potentially open circuit.
Likely locations of the bad connections are at the J3 connector at the MPU board which is for the cabinet/coin door switch wiring harness.

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EBD_Tilt-Slam_Switches.jpg

#6 44 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

If you manually reset the CPU (very briefly short pin 39 to pin 40 which are the top two left pins at U9) does the board then boot up?

Not following this. All the connectors on the MPU board are marked with a J.

So based on the lower schematic, since the tilt roll cage is working, ST0 and the return are working, but something is not correct with the tilt plumb bob, and ST1 or it's return could be open, or the diode is wired up backwards. The diode going to the tilt roll cage and tilt plumb bob must be installed correctly or the roll cage wouldn't register when it's circuit is completed. Does this sound correct?

I have replaced all of the little capacitors for the switches that are supposed to have them. Those don't have a polarity, correct?

#7 44 days ago
Quoted from Dewey68:

Not following this. All the connectors on the MPU board are marked with a J.

Sorry, this doesn't have anything to do with connectors - by "manually resetting the CPU", I'm talking about shorting pins 39 and 40 *briefly* on the 40 pin chip under the J5 connector. That chip at U9 is the CPU. See the picture below:

Quoted from Dewey68:

So based on the lower schematic, since the tilt roll cage is working, ST0 and the return are working, but something is not correct with the tilt plumb bob, and ST1 or it's return could be open, or the diode is wired up backwards. The diode going to the tilt roll cage and tilt plumb bob must be installed correctly or the roll cage wouldn't register when it's circuit is completed. Does this sound correct?

Oh, so the tilt ball roll cage is working. Post some pictures of it including the tilt plumb bob so we can see the wiring between the two. Next to the plumb bob is a slam switch which is also worth seeing.

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#8 44 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Sorry, this doesn't have anything to do with connectors - by "manually resetting the CPU", I'm talking about shorting pins 39 and 40 *briefly* on the 40 pin chip under the J5 connector.D'oh! Got it.

Oh, so the tilt ball roll cage is working. Post some pictures of it including the tilt plumb bob so we can see the wiring between the two. Next to the plumb bob is a slam switch which is also worth seeing.

Correct, sorry if I was unclear. The slam switch next to the plumb bob and the plumb bob aren't working. The slam switch on the door is working. I'll post some pictures tonight. Thanks!

#9 43 days ago

I haven't had a chance to try shorting the pins on U9 yet as it hasn't done it since you posted that. Here are some pictures of the tilt mechanism wiring. If you need an additional picture of something, please let me know! Thanks.

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#10 43 days ago

Ok, the diode on the slam switch is soldered on backwards. The non-banded side of the diode should be on the side lug with the red-green wires. The banded side of the diode should be on the lower lone end lug beneath the yellow wire lug.

I'm not seeing anything obvious with the tilt mech but need some clear pictures of the switch at the end of the tilt ball roll cage.

The clear tubing on the yellow wires needs to be pushed over the solder lug so it doesn't touch the lower lug where the diode goes.

#11 43 days ago

How are you testing these switches? Just so you know, if you hold the coin door, door frame or any other grounded metal with one hand / arm while using your other hand to maneuver the ball or bob, you create a low impedance path for the strobe circuit and you will get odd results with other 'things' in the strobe circuit responding . Use a wood stick or plastic instrument to test tilt ball and bob actions.

#12 43 days ago

Oh, the wires on the back of the tilt roll cage are soldered in the wrong positions.
White-black wire should be on the bottom lug. Banded side of the diode should be on this bottom lug.
Red-yellow wires should be on the side lug. Non-banded side of the diode should be on this side lug.

Zoom into the picture here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tilt-switches-not-working#post-5435828

#13 43 days ago

Awesome! I'll be doing some soldering when I get home.

#14 42 days ago

Tilt plumb bob is working, but the slam switch isn't and the switch tests thinks switch 16 (slam) is closed.

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#15 42 days ago

Looks like you've got the diode on the slam switch soldered on the wrong lug. Unsolder the diode lead connected to the yellow wires. There is another lug underneath the yellow wires with nothing connected to it - that's where the banded side of the diode goes.

Also there's a slam switch on the coin door next to the hinge - make sure it isn't closed.

#16 42 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Looks like you've got the diode on the slam switch soldered on the wrong lug.

D'oh! You're absolutely right. I think I'll cut the leads down on that diode while I'm at it.

Quoted from Skidave:

How are you testing these switches? Just so you know, if you hold the coin door, door frame or any other grounded metal with one hand / arm while using your other hand to maneuver the ball or bob, you create a low impedance path for the strobe circuit and you will get odd results with other 'things' in the strobe circuit responding .

Skidave you're absolutely right too! When I was testing last night I had one hand on the right rail when testing and was getting the pop bumpers firing again. Then I remembered to not touch anything grounded.

Quench, I did have a few times the pin didn't boot correctly last night, but I had the playfield up and wanted to concentrate on wiring. I'll try jumping the pins on U9 this weekend.

Really appreciate the help guys.

#17 41 days ago

Diode has been moved, it's all working as it should now.

I did have a failed boot on the MPU board, and shorting pins 39 and 40 on U9 got it to boot properly.

#18 41 days ago
Quoted from Dewey68:

I did have a failed boot on the MPU board, and shorting pins 39 and 40 on U9 got it to boot properly.

There's an 8.2 volt zener diode on the MPU board at location VR1 (lower left corner of the board). Measure the DC voltage across it. Black meter lead on the lower leg, red meter lead on the upper leg. If it measures 7.8 volts or lower replace it.

#19 41 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

There's an 8.2 volt zener diode on the MPU board at location VR1 (lower left corner of the board). Measure the DC voltage across it. Black meter lead on the lower leg, red meter lead on the upper leg. If it measures 7.8 volts or lower replace it.

VR1 is reading 8.2 volts.

#20 40 days ago

What's the story with the factory original solenoid driver board?

Does the MPU board have any battery corrosion and if yes, was it properly dealt with? And were the MPU board connectors re-terminated?

What DC voltage do you measure at TP3 on the power rectifier board in the bottom of the cabinet?

#21 38 days ago

The pin had the Alltek solenoid board in it when I got it. I don't see signs of acid damage. All MPU board connectors and pins have been replaced.

Quoted from Quench:

What DC voltage do you measure at TP3 on the power rectifier board in the bottom of the cabinet?

It has a Rottendog power board in it, but I'm assuming the test points are the same. TP3 says it should be 11.5 volts, but it's reading at 17.8.

The bridge rectifier on the board melted down a few weeks ago and took a couple of traces with it before the 20 amp fuse on board blew. I replaced the rectifier and soldered some jumper wires onto the back of the board to replace the burned out traces. With TP3 reading that high maybe more got damaged on the board when the rectifier blew.

The pin has always had the boot issue since I've owned it though.

#22 38 days ago
Quoted from Dewey68:

TP3 says it should be 11.5 volts, but it's reading at 17.8.

17.8V is high, it should be in the 14-16V range. What line voltage is your transformer configured for?

Quoted from Dewey68:

The bridge rectifier on the board melted down a few weeks ago and took a couple of traces with it before the 20 amp fuse on board blew.

Did you find the short circuit in the G.I. that caused this?

Quoted from Dewey68:

All MPU board connectors and pins have been replaced.

Were they done properly? What happens when you wiggle the connectors? Was the J3 connector on the solenoid driver board (SDB) re-terminated too?

Post some very clear high resolution pictures of the MPU board.

Do you have any other classic Bally games?

#23 36 days ago

I did a search for checking the line voltage setting for the transformer but didn't find a good example.

MPU board has passed the wiggle test. Solenoid driver board connectors have all been replaced, but not the pins. I don't have any other classic Bally games.

I've attached some pics of the MPU board.

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#24 35 days ago
Quoted from Dewey68:

I did a search for checking the line voltage setting for the transformer but didn't find a good example.

Post a picture of the connector that has the line voltage selector wire block in the cabinet. It's next to (right side) of the transformer where the line fuse is. See below.

Quoted from Dewey68:

Solenoid driver board connectors have all been replaced, but not the pins.

You might need to look at the state of the SDB J3 pin header to see if it's tarnished or not.

Quoted from Dewey68:

I've attached some pics of the MPU board.

Resistor R82 area has the typical cooked look, not helped by your high 12V (17.8V) supply rail.

I can see half the components on the right side of the MPU board have been reflowed. What work has been done to it?

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