(Topic ID: 299357)

EBD flipper rebuild

By Forehead_Slap

2 years ago


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    #1 2 years ago

    First time I've attempted this. Bally liner flipper rebuild. First question.... The schematic shows caps across all the switches, and I don't have any. Does anyone have a picture showing how they were installed or just simply put them across the lugs of the switches?

    Also, I was just going to use the old flippers as a guide on how to reassemble. Are there any things I should know beyond remove and replace?

    Finally, I've read here that the EOS should have a gap of 1/8 in. Is that it? (most intimidated about this)

    Thanks for the help

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    #2 2 years ago
    Quoted from Forehead_Slap:

    The schematic shows caps across all the switches, and I don't have any. Does anyone have a picture showing how they were installed or just simply put them across the lugs of the switches?

    EOS_Capacitors.pngEOS_Capacitors.png

    I'm guessing Germany had them installed to reduce EMI/radio interference from the arcing that happens across the EOS switch. US machines didn't have those caps.
    Actually adding a capacitor is a good idea since it reduces arcing/burning/pitting on the EOS switch which extends its life. If you're installing them, make sure they aren't floating because vibration will make them break off. They need to be tied down.

    Some of the info here might help:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-mount-eos-cap
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/reducing-arcing-on-early-ss-pin-flipper-eos-and-cabinet-switches

    Quoted from Forehead_Slap:

    Finally, I've read here that the EOS should have a gap of 1/8 in. Is that it? (most intimidated about this)

    You set the EOS switch gap with you pushing the metal rod plunger into the coil exactly as it would normally operate. Don't do it by rotating the flipper bat all the way up because that doesn't take into account any wear/slack in the mech parts.

    IMG_0004a.jpgIMG_0004a.jpg

    #3 2 years ago

    Thanks Quench,

    The way I read that was that the US caps are .05 MFD (from note 4), and the German ones are .01MFD.

    Great links. Thank you.

    #4 2 years ago
    Quoted from Forehead_Slap:

    The way I read that was that the US caps are .05 MFD (from note 4)

    Nope. The 0.05uF capacitors in note 4 refer to the capacitors on some of the general computer controlled playfield switches on the left half of the playfield schematic.
    US games did not have capacitors installed on the EOS switches. Only German games had EOS switch capacitors fitted.
    If you're retrofitting capacitors, they need to be high voltage. The goto is 2.2uF, 250V or higher voltage rating. They must be non-polarised capacitors.

    #5 2 years ago

    Outstanding, thanks!

    Off to Game Exchange for parts.

    Quoted from Quench:

    If you're retrofitting capacitors, they need to be high voltage. The goto is 2.2uF, 250V or higher voltage rating. They must be non-polarised capacitors.

    #6 2 years ago

    you wanted pics?

    the capacitors on the flipper switches in the cabinet
    IMG_3196 (resized).JPGIMG_3196 (resized).JPG

    and whilst these are different flipper assemblies the principal is the same, you can see the capacitors across the EOS switches.
    when installed checked with a mutimeter for continuity across the EOS switches before adding the capacitors, you must have continuity/zero ohms resistance. if the meter shows resistance they may need a clean with a microscrub, or very wet/dry sandpaper
    it is known to swap the original 'linear' assemblies out for the ones in the pic..
    IMG_3234 (resized).JPGIMG_3234 (resized).JPG

    and yes 1/8 is a good sized gap

    #7 2 years ago

    I install 2.2 uf @ 250 volt yellow polyester axial capacitors across the EOS switches and .1 uf @ 500 volt ceramic disc capacitors across the flipper button cabinet switches.

    #8 2 years ago

    Ken what is the benefit of adding these caps?

    Save switches life or something else?

    #9 2 years ago

    Adding the caps is not a big deal since they weren't factory on US games and in home use they are even less needed. Better to just make sure your switches are clean and filed, or replace them if pitted or worn thin.

    #10 2 years ago

    The capacitors reduce sparking considerably. Thus the switch contacts run cooler, last longer, and won't pit. I add them to all classic Bally solid state flippers now. In fact, I just put some on a Mata Hari. The machines I put them on are in commercial use on location.

    #11 2 years ago

    Thanks to all the helped. I have a few issues to troubleshoot. The first is that the right flipper does the machine gunning thing. I think the holding coil isn't working, so I'm going to take it out and check the windings are soldiered correctly to the lugs.

    I replaced everything the way it was in the machine, but I have a question. The right flipper coil was oriented with the lugs down, and the left was with the lugs up. Any idea why they would be in different directions and does it matter.

    The upper flipper works except it returns really slowly. It's all new components, the plunger, and the coil. is that just misalignment, or did I do something wrong?

    Thanks again.

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    #12 2 years ago

    Make sure that slow-returning flipper has the shaft mounted where it has a slight amount of up and down play in it, between the flipper and its nylon bushing, you don't want that tight.

    #13 2 years ago

    IMG_3741 (Medium) (resized).JPGIMG_3741 (Medium) (resized).JPGIMG_3740 (Medium) (resized).JPGIMG_3740 (Medium) (resized).JPGmaybe it's how it is now, but those new EOS switches aren't tungsten tipped contacts. There's not a lot of surface area there for contact and the current.

    IMG_3739 (Medium) (resized).JPGIMG_3739 (Medium) (resized).JPG

    did you check/adjust the EOS switch gaps so when the flipper is fully engaged the gap is about 3.2mm / 1/4 inch ?

    whilst it still may work the ball trough switch has been modified, it should look like the following

    IMG_3757 (Medium) (resized).JPGIMG_3757 (Medium) (resized).JPG

    it could just be the pic, but is that ball trough diode, the orange piece with a black band, touching the playfield locating bracket?

    it could also be the pic, but the second one looks like the flipper shaft is through a long way not allowing up/down play that is needed for free movement of the flipper.

    #14 2 years ago

    There should always be about a sixteenth of an inch up and down play in the flipper shaft so it doesn't bind on the nylon bushing going through the playfield.

    If there is enough clearance, then there is a particular problem with the coil stop bracket causing a binding condition. What I do is make a paper "shim" out of a matchbook cover or a business card. Trim it to the size of the bottom of the coil stop bracket. Then punch two holes in it (for the coil stop screws) that line up with the screw holes in the coil stop bracket. Now insert the paper shim between the flipper baseplate and the coil stop bracket and tighten the screws. That paper shim should raise the coil stop bracket just high enough away from the baseplate to eliminate the binding of the coil plunger. This is an old technician's trick.

    #15 2 years ago

    Postscript...

    The three of you were correct. The binding flipper was set too tight vertically. A little space and it returns just fine.

    The flipper that was "machine-gunning" had a damaged wire (the 34 gage one) I replaced it with a new coil and it work just fine. I only had a little time to test it and things seem fine, but the upper flipper seems really weak. I'll take some time to play with the EOS and the gap on the power contact on the lower flipper and see if I can get it stronger.

    Thanks to you all so much. This week... I'm going to try to replace all the connectors on the SDB. I'm sure I'll be posting again. So much to learn... so much to screw up.

    #16 2 years ago

    If you haven't already, make sure to give a light filing to each of the new EOS switches (and cabinet switches if applicable). They usually have a bit of a film or coating that can make them a bit less conductive. Also make sure the EOS switch contacts have a little bit of tension when closed.

    #17 2 years ago

    i personally wouldn't be using a file on any new EOS switches, especially not the 'wrong' ones you have been supplied with.

    EOS switches are tungsten tipped for a reason, as are flipper switches, you have been supplied standard switches.

    if you are going to 'clean' the EOS switches, try sliding through a piece of cardboard several times, or cover a knife in a rag and alcohol on it to clean them.

    #18 2 years ago

    Can you elaborate? I thought you weren't actually supposed to file them, just clean them with a business card/dollar.

    Thanks

    Quoted from frunch:

    If you haven't already, make sure to give a light filing to each of the new EOS switches (and cabinet switches if applicable). They usually have a bit of a film or coating that can make them a bit less conductive. Also make sure the EOS switch contacts have a little bit of tension when closed.

    #19 2 years ago

    Just saw this... this is what I've read.

    I got the switches from Marco as a complete set for the rebuild.... so are they "wrong"?

    Quoted from Rikoshay:

    i personally wouldn't be using a file on any new EOS switches, especially not the 'wrong' ones you have been supplied with.
    EOS switches are tungsten tipped for a reason, as are flipper switches, you have been supplied standard switches.
    if you are going to 'clean' the EOS switches, try sliding through a piece of cardboard several times, or cover a knife in a rag and alcohol on it to clean them.

    #20 2 years ago

    If cleaning the switches with paper or whatever doesn't do the job, the high-power type switches were designed to be filed to clean off arcing burns and pitting for maintenance, a few light swishes with a fine file when they are new won't hurt them and would sort of 'break them in'.

    I agree looking at the contacts though about them perhaps being wrong though. Green circled contact (fires upper flipper) looks right, red circled (EOS) looks kind of whimpy. Maybe EOS's don't necessarily have to be as hefty because they only break the circuit and don't make it, and they are only breaking the main winding and not the hold winding(?) That's the only sense I can make about those contact choices.

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    #21 2 years ago

    sorry to be the bearer of bad news regarding the EOS switches.

    they way i have had to do it is buy the switches separately and make my own stack when an extra flipper contact is involved.

    but your new ones will still work, you have the 'spark suppressing' caps to help.
    it is a very small surface area in comparison for current involved.

    https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/03-7811 'the description states they have tungsten tipped contacts' but they don't have the 'lifter', you may find yours are fine and can add them.

    https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/ASW-A10-45

    regarding the filing of the EOS switches, i was purely referring to new switches, yes as they age/wear pitting and build up occurs creating an uneven contact and can add resistance so by all means they would be filed to freshen them up.

    pretty sure PBR sell sell the tungsten tipped contacts separately and you can build your own to suit.

    but if all that sounds too much to take on board, fair enough, just enjoy playing pinball.

    #22 2 years ago

    OK, that all makes great sense. I'll play it for awhile and then replace with better switches. I didn't replace the cabinet switches, so I'll do those all at once. It'll be "Switch Day". Beer may be involved.

    Thanks again.

    #23 2 years ago

    @Rickoshay.. I've looked at this a lot and I don't see the modification.

    Quoted from Rikoshay:

    whilst it still may work the ball trough switch has been modified, it should look like the following
    [quoted image].

    #24 2 years ago

    your trough switch has 2 solder tabs and the wire attached to the loose diode leg, as opposed to 3 solder tabs where the diode sits across 2 holding it firmly in place.

    #25 2 years ago

    Thanks. I'll order a new one.

    Quoted from Rikoshay:

    your trough switch has 2 solder tabs and the wire attached to the loose diode leg, as opposed to 3 solder tabs where the diode sits across 2 holding it firmly in place.

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