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» EBD drop targets don’t reset during game

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EBD drop targets don’t reset during game

By classiccar

6 years ago

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#1 6 years ago

???

I recently “inherited” a 1984 version Eight Ball Deluxe. I am a newbie to maintaining/repairing pinball machines, so am using every resource I can find to get tips on things.
The problem I am currently trying to diagnose is that the drop targets on the right side won’t reset during a game. They worked perfectly when I first got the machine but suddenly have started doing this. They do reset when I start a new game and the solenoid tests fine in self-test. Have not been able to find intermittent resetting advice anywhere. Got any ideas?

Any suggestions are welcome.

#2 6 years ago

QUY

FatPanda

Pinside member

7y 141K 7,174 32

I would start off by checking each of the switches for each of the drops. Make sure they are clean and are making contact when the targets are in the dropped position. You can clean the contacts with 320+ sand paper and some 90% rubbing alcohol.

After cleaning and adjustments, make sure they are registering and scoring when a game is running.

#3 6 years ago

SMD

stevevt

The Pinball Co-op

South Burlington, VT

11y 137K 2,690 1

Depending on settings, they will only reset:

A) After you drop 1-7 and the 8 ball, AND get all DELUXE targets
or
B) After you drop 1-7 and the 8 ball, then drain and begin another ball.

#4 6 years ago

AMR

BigAl56

Pinside+ Frequent

Palatine, IL

7y 64,800 1,654

I assume the reset works fine during the self test. As Steve says above make sure you know and are testing the sequence properly.
Also make sure the switches on the back of the target assembly are each working. You may have a bad target down switch.

#5 6 years ago

???

classiccar

Inactive member

Unknown

6y 17,150 46

Thanks for the help, guys.

FatPanda, I have checked each drop switch and all are making contact and seem to be clean. The drops and DELUXE targets all register and score during play. Steve, I have dipswitch 23 off so I expect they will only reset after the drops and the targets have been completed. But they sometimes don't reset even after that. One time they didn't reset when starting a brand new game. BigAl, yes, the drops and resets work perfectly during self-test.

I will check again to make sure the target switches are all working. Is there a reset switch that is separate from the drop and target switches?

#6 6 years ago

AMR

BigAl56

Pinside+ Frequent

Palatine, IL

7y 64,800 1,654

Looks like the target reset is controlled by switch 23 on the MPU. ON-no reset, off-reset after deluxe.
Keep in mind if you change a switch you have to reset the game to take effect.

#7 6 years ago

???

classiccar

Inactive member

Unknown

6y 17,150 46

Finally have a chance to get back to working on this over the weekend.

- mpu switch is set to reset after outhole. Doesn’t happen.
- the ONLY time they reset (just 7 drop bank - others work fine) is during self test.
- all switch contacts have been cleaned
- springs look good, no visibly loose wires or shorted connections in the cabinet or back box solenoid and drop relevant wiring
- drops score when they are hit
- they worked perfectly for the first several weeks I had the machine, this problem started happening out of the blue, with no obvious trigger (didn’t move the machine, replace any major parts, etc.)

I notice that the solenoids (there is one on each end of the mechanism) have three wires soldered to two contacts. I assume that is normal?

I could replace the targets but am reluctant to do that without any real evidence that it will solve the problem. Any ideas what to do next?

#8 6 years ago

AMR

BigAl56

Pinside+ Frequent

Palatine, IL

7y 64,800 1,654

The reset coil(s) are controlled by the solenoid expander and require a diode in series as well as across the coil. That's why there are 3 lugs.
Normal wiring for this game is shown on the schematic but since the coil fires in self test it should fine during game mode. Perhaps switch 23 is dirty or bad? or the solenoid expander doesn't operate properly. When you put the game in lamp test do you hear the sol expander clicking? Sounds like a cars turn signal clicking.
Try turning the game off and switching 23 back and forth a couple times to possibly clean any internal corrosion.
There are only 2 possible behaviors of the drops and targets as shown below.

pasted_image (resized).png

#9 6 years ago

DAG

Toyguy

Inactive member

9y 58,400 869 20 14

We’re troubleshooting a similar issue. Targets reset when the machine is powered on. They score during play but don’t reset between players in a multiplayer game. You can see the targets move when the correct coils fire to lower any necessary targets but the big reset coils don’t fire. Watching the expander, it does not change state during game play but does do so on power up when the bank resets correctly. We tried a brand new expander I had but it had no effect. Maybe there’s something up with switch 23 but it’s a new Alltek if I remember correctly.

#10 6 years ago

AMR

BigAl56

Pinside+ Frequent

Palatine, IL

7y 64,800 1,654

No matter how switch 23 is configured the targets should always reset between players on a multi player game.
Resetting the targets requires the sol expander activate. What you want to do is verify the expander is in fact activating between players. You can do this by observing the dummy lamp under the playfield that helps activate the expander. After the ball drains the game should light that bulb indicating the SCR is attempting to energize the relay, you should hear the relay click at the same time and then the reset coil should pull.

One thing that comes to mind is replacing the expander bulb. You will want to do that with a new 555 lamp. Some times the 555 gets removed to do a quick swap on another lamp, other times it has failed, and it might even have been inadvertently been swapped out with an LED.

#11 6 years ago

SMD

stevevt

The Pinball Co-op

South Burlington, VT

11y 137K 2,690 1

Replying here, because Toyguy and I are working on the same machine.

Quoted from BigAl56:
No matter how switch 23 is configured the targets should always reset between players on a multi player game.

Agreed. And yet it's not happening.

Quoted from BigAl56:
What you want to do is verify the expander is in fact activating between players. You can do this by observing the dummy lamp under the playfield that helps activate the expander. After the ball drains the game should light that bulb indicating the SCR is attempting to energize the relay, you should hear the relay click at the same time and then the reset coil should pull.

The expander definitely is not behaving correctly between players. I'll let Toyguy elaborate, but I believe the bulb is staying on when it shouldn't.

Quoted from BigAl56:
One thing that comes to mind is replacing the expander bulb. You will want to do that with a new 555 lamp. Some times the 555 gets removed to do a quick swap on another lamp, other times it has failed, and it might even have been inadvertently been swapped out with an LED.

In addition to trying a new bulb, we tried a brand new expander board. No change. So, while the expander isn't behaving properly, the problem appears to be coming from somewhere upstream.

#12 6 years ago

???

classiccar

Inactive member

Unknown

6y 17,150 46

It was the expander bulb!!! There was an led instead of a 555. I changed it out with a 555 and the drops work perfectly again! Many thanks for the help! I’m gonna grab a beer and play for a while to celebrate.

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