(Topic ID: 62110)

Ebay auction 281162629344 is a counterfeit TAFG


By royt

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 87 posts
  • 37 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by MurphyPeoples
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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There are 87 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 6 years ago

If the new wrong colored plaque and new cabinet decals don't worry you. the fact that the real one with that number is sitting in my garage should. I have put mine on ebay for all to see.
Check this out =

ebay.com link

#2 6 years ago

These links work better:

Auction "fake": ebay.com link

OP's game: ebay.com link

NOTE TO ROBIN: your ebay link parser is vey broken and severely mangling URLs!

#3 6 years ago

Oh Snap good catch!

#4 6 years ago

The seller has ran for cover!
Thanks for the heads up.

#5 6 years ago

Thanks

#6 6 years ago

No, the link I posted was wrong someone corrected it. just ebay search Addams 980 and they both will come up.

#7 6 years ago

Here is the link to the counterfeit listing royt is referring to:
ebay.com link » Addams Family Gold Pinball Machine Collector Quality 980 Bally Rare

Here is the link to royt's listing of his own machine:
ebay.com link » The Real Addams Family Gold Pinball Machine 980 Not The Counterfeit One

#8 6 years ago

Here is the sellers web site.

http://www.docpinball.com/

#9 6 years ago

God dang. Last time I looked at a TAFG, it was going for 10k. That was only a few short years ago. Have they really gone up that far into the stratosphere?

#10 6 years ago

Have you notified eBay?

#11 6 years ago

Yes, it has been reported to ebay.

-2
#12 6 years ago

I noticed a few things...

#1 - it has a buy in button. TAF didn't have a buy-in button. So, either the cabinet has been modified.. or it's an original TAFG with the wrong #. The button is countersunk like original, and most people don't have the proper routing equipment to route the hole in the cabinet for the buy-in button.

#2 - it has the newer Entropy style door used on TAFG, and the reject buttons say 'tokens', so it probably isn't a newer door put on an older game - it's likely the original one.

It doesn't mean it's counterfeit, it means the # may not match. This could be any number of things - Midway could've screwed up and sent 2 guys #980 plaques, someone could've had this game in their home and bought a repro plaque because theirs was lost.. just like some CC's don't have plaques, and some have numbers that don't match their serial.

Why does everyone always jump off the deep end and assume a seller is trying to lie to someone or screw them over? Why not contact the seller with your information and ask them to clear it up? Nah, let's just make a post on pinside and smear them?

#13 6 years ago

Ha, too funny. Someone should click buy it now, have it shpped out, then file a papyal claim that it is counterfeit. Might end up with a free TAFGC. At least cause some fun hassle for the guy.

#14 6 years ago

This is getting interesting. Popcorn in the micro...

#15 6 years ago

Obviously everything was redone on the 'counterfiet' TAFG, the new decals, the new gold plating, etc.

But the plaque is what interests me. I doubt WMS would resend a plaque or make 2 with the same number by accident. Possible but unlikely.

Did somebody repro plaques to copy the originals?

#16 6 years ago

1)Yes someone is selling repro plaques they are $195.00

2) To the poster accusing me of flying off the handle and smearing someone=
I thought long and hard about approaching the seller of the counterfeit game, it is what I would have preferred to do. But to do so you would have to assume he was honest and this was a somehow a mistake. Considering the circumstances and how suspicious that game is that would be too much of a leap of faith, Williams did not make plaques with the same numbers and the and the fact the cabinet was decaled is just too many coincidences. So I realized if I e-mailed the seller I would just warn him off, the game would be sold quietly underground.

Fast forward 5-10 years from now, I want to sell my game. Guess what I have to deal with the same crap when the buyer of the other 980 comes after me. Nope better to get it out in the open now.

#17 6 years ago

http://pinballfanatic.com/products/addams-family-pinball-gorgeous-collectors-plaque/

Did you contact these guys? They seem to have taken some precaution...?

#18 6 years ago

You are flying off the handle and smearing someone. You don't know their intent or the situation. You know that your game is a genuine TAFG. You don't know that their game is NOT a genuine TAFG.

Look at it from the other side - if you were selling your game, and someone else thought they had the real #980, you would expect them to be civil and approach this the right way. You'd be upset if they were smearing you, right?

You would have to assume they are honest - would you rather assume they are dishonest? Doc Pinball buys and sells games - he probably bought this game used, cleaned it up, and tried to make a buck or two on it - that's the idea of running a business, right?

I know the seller and will send him an e-mail and see if he'd like to join in on the conversation.

#19 6 years ago

IF I had #980 I would be pissed that someone is devaluing my possession. More power to you royt.

#20 6 years ago

Doc pinball, AKA Mark Wagner is well known as being the biggest joke in Indiana. Anyone that knows anything at all about pinball knows to stay away from him. His specialty is catering to uneducated first time buyers. I've met a few newbies that had purchased from him...

#21 6 years ago

I know the seller and will send him an e-mail and see if he'd like to join in on the conversation.

popcorn-gif-23.gif

#22 6 years ago
Quoted from btw75:

http://pinballfanatic.com/products/addams-family-pinball-gorgeous-collectors-plaque/

Did you contact these guys? They seem to have taken some precaution...?

Wow and you can also buy a copy of the certificate

http://pinballfanatic.com/products/addams-family-gold-pinball-collectors-certifcate/

What a mess

#23 6 years ago

Please contact him. I would love to hear the story behind that game.

#24 6 years ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

Doc pinball, AKA Mark Wagner is well known as being the biggest joke in Indiana. Anyone that knows anything at all about pinball knows to stay away from him. His specialty is catering to uneducated first time buyers. I've met a few newbies that had purchased from him...

Mark's prices are higher than I pay - there's no question about that - but I also don't require the same level of support after the sale that some first time buyers require.

I'm not saying it's impossible that this is a fake - I'm saying I don't believe it is - it would require a lot of work that few sellers would be capable of pulling off, and most uneducated buyers of such a game would never notice anyways.

Let's get proof before we condemn someone.

Hell, I joined pinside after a 'regular' drug me through the mud on a purchase they made from me - and I think I've proven to contribute to discussions and help people out, no?

-2
#25 6 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

I know the seller

Hmmmmmm...I was kinda wondering why you were defending an obvious counterfeit TAF Gold, but now it makes sense...

#26 6 years ago
Quoted from PismoArcade:

Hmmmmmm...I was kinda wondering why you were defending an obvious counterfeit TAF Gold, but now it makes sense...

How is it an obvious counterfeit?

If <insert name of a well known restorer> restores a game, puts cabinet art on it, and has stuff replated, nobody questions it?

#27 6 years ago

So John, do you believe there are two with the same numbers? or are you saying mine is a fake?

#28 6 years ago

I don't believe two were built with the same number, no.

But I don't think this is an intentional act of someone taking a regular TAF and turning it into a TAFG, either. My guess is it's a genuine TAFG that someone bought a replacement plaque for, and somehow got the wrong #. I've seen quite a few TAFGs over the years, and very few have the correct manual, plaque, and a certificate.

The measures the repro plaque maker have to ensure that there are only 'genuine' games receiving plaques could never possibly be stringent enough - I can make a new serial # decal for a game and put it in my cabinet, and use that as 'proof', right? Who is to say I didn't change the serial # on the decal in the cabinet?

I'm saying, get the entire story before causing all the drama and smearing a seller.

Just the way you'd hope someone would do for you, if the tables were turned.

#29 6 years ago
Quoted from royt:

Yes, it has been reported to ebay.

Looks like ebay has pulled the listing.

"Warning
Invalid Item
The item you requested (281162629344) is invalid, still pending, or no longer in our database. Please check the number and try again. If this message persists, the item has either not started and is not yet available for viewing, or has expired and is no longer available."

#30 6 years ago

Wow... the "fake" listing has been removed already.

#31 6 years ago

Sorry but I don't see the OP has smeered the fake number #980 seller. I would do exactly the same thing and I'm very glad he said something. He clearly has the correct #980 and has said the one listed is NOT 980. Nothing wrong with that.

#32 6 years ago

If I were the OP, I would contact the other seller to see what's up. Could be an honest mistake. No way to really know without checking it out though.

Best of luck to all.

Chris

#33 6 years ago

You may call it drama, I call it protecting my property. I love how someone always comes on and defends someone "oh he's a great guy and your a jerk for doing this". I heard this a million times about the guys at PFR, in the meantime my money and playfield have disappeared and that's just one example. Maybe you should get the facts straight before jumping on me. I have stated my position clearly on this.

#34 6 years ago
Quoted from Mantra:

Sorry but I don't see the OP has smeered the fake number #980 seller. I would do exactly the same thing and I'm very glad he said something. He clearly has the correct #980 and has said the one listed is NOT 980. Nothing wrong with that.

So, it's the norm to not contact someone if you think there is an error in a listing?

He started a post here.. could've contacted the seller and said 'hey, I have #980, and I don't think yours is really #980 because of these reasons' - and maybe the seller would've re-evaluated and figured out what is going on.

Have you looked at it from the other side? Let's say you have something you believe is genuine - maybe it was sold to you as genuine, maybe you've had it for years.. and you decide to sell it, and someone thinks it isn't the real deal.

Would you want that person to contact you, and give you the opportunity to clear things up? Perhaps you reasonably believed that what you had is legit. Maybe he has a real TAFG and the serial # decal is scraped up, and it's #988 and the center was rubbed out of the 2nd 8 on the serial # decal, and he didn't know....

I'm tired of everyone assuming everyone else is a liar, and is out to get them. Maybe I'm naive.. but I'd rather be naive than cynical.

#35 6 years ago

Royt, I am glad you found this out before someone actually thought they were getting #980 Scammed Edition. We as a group have to stop this shit. We all know there are some dirtbags is this addiction and we need to expose them so nobody gets burned.

As far as this Doc pinball goes he should know exactly if this pin is a fake or not. Simple as a group we get the word out on his name and Business and let the pin world know he is dirty.

Quoted from johnwartjr:

How is it an obvious counterfeit?
If <insert name of a well known restorer> restores a game, puts cabinet art on it, and has stuff replated, nobody questions it?

The difference is these well known restorers have a excellent rep. They are not trying to sell Scammed Editions Pins.

#36 6 years ago

Seems like you must be close to the people at docpinball. I don't know them but still if I owned the original I feel its not my place to call someone and say hey you are posting my machine. I just don't agree he did anything wrong, and yes he could have called as you suggest but that does not mean him saying something here first is smeering. Just my opionon thats all.

Cheers

#37 6 years ago
Quoted from royt:

I love how someone always comes on and defends someone "oh he's a great guy and your a jerk for doing this". I heard this a million times about the guys at PFR, in the meantime my money and playfield have disappeared and that's just one example.

I don't disagree with you on that fact. MAD Amusements was constantly defended here after not shipping some international orders to people I know - in some cases very well. 'Well, he's never screwed me over' or 'I'm in the US, nobody in the US has problems, so I'm still going to deal with him'

I had playfields with PFR for *years* and finally got the last 2 back last year. I don't disagree with you there, either.

I guess the crux of all of this is, you have to be an educated buyer. I'm not sure, even with current pricing, that ANY TAFG is worth 15k, even NIB or completely restored by HEP, or anywhere in-between. But, if I were going to pull the trigger on a 15k pin, I'd be asking for more pictures, checking references, and probably even flying in to look at it myself before paying. I am not saying I'd assume a seller is up to no good, I'd saying I'd do my due diligence before I paid.

#38 6 years ago

Royt has the right to post this. I would be a little pissed someone has matched a limited edition of anything of mine. I think this will be a back and forth "mine is the real one." These Gold Addams Familys are tracked on a website. I guess we need to put and * next to 980 due to it not being a big deal.

#39 6 years ago

Since the other one was pulled I have ended my listing.

#40 6 years ago

Bottom line, it's a counterfeit #980 TAFG. Maybe it's a real TAFG but it's not #980.

Anyone who is selling a legit #980 should have more than a repro plaque backing it up, and I would suggest more homework be done on posting a $15k machine up for sale as a 'one of a kind'.

Entertaining overall though - glad i dont have a horse in this race.

#41 6 years ago
Quoted from Mantra:

Seems like you must be close to the people at docpinball. I don't know them but still if I owned the original I feel its not my place to call someone and say hey you are posting my machine. I just don't agree he did anything wrong, and yes he could have called as you suggest but that does not mean him saying something here first is smeering. Just my opionon thats all.
Cheers

I don't know Mark real well, no. I know he's somewhat local to me. Just like I probably know 100 or more people in a 1 state radius of me who like pinball, and buy/sell/trade/etc. Never bought/sold/traded a game with him or anything like that.

The OP may not have smeared, but it seems like the bandwagon jumped right in 'It's a witch! Burn the witch!' - nobody else assumed it could be an honest mistake with a reasonable explanation?

I don't just assume someone is up to no good because something doesn't look right. I've decided not to do business with one entity or another, because something seemed fishy, or not right about a deal. But, I don't go on pinside every time I see something listed incorrectly on eBay. I let the seller know what I saw, and what doesn't seem right.

Sometimes, they respond, and thank me, and say they didn't realize they had an error in their listing. Very rarely, does anyone respond negatively - whether it's an individual seller, or a large business - I guess it's not 'normal' for everyone to eat/sleep/breathe/live pinball for 10+ years of their life, and have a broad knowledge on the subject - so most people appreciate it when you share with them.

Someone making an error with a listing isn't necessarily a bad guy. Could be misinformed. Could be an honest mistake.

Now, if I'd contacted a seller, and said 'your game is a fake, and here's why', and they responded with 'eat sh*t and die', I'd find a way to start warning people.

#42 6 years ago

Why?

Quoted from royt:

Since the other one was pulled I have ended my listing.

#43 6 years ago

Oh wait you werent actually selling yours? Nevermind

#44 6 years ago

TAFG have the serial # imprinted on the middle of the PF.
It's in UV ink, so black light. But you can also see it due to the indentation on the PF they made when marking them, just get the right angle.
It's just above the mansion, in the orange part, I think.
Something to look for, and clear up cases like this.

#45 6 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

I guess it's not 'normal' for everyone to eat/sleep/breathe/live pinball for 10+ years of their life

What!? I'm not normal?

#46 6 years ago

OK, now that I've read this several times through, I can't believe I've wasted this much of my lunch hour arguing this point The horse is dead, it's been beat

The OP's original post, after re-reading, does seem informative only - 'hey, I saw this - be careful' - for something like that, I'm grateful.

I would've handled it a little different, but so would've everyone else here.

There's still no proof that the seller is dirty - that's all I was trying to inflict here. Hopefully Mark will join pinside, and share his side of the story.

My apologies to the OP... you didn't smear him. Other people tried to, though. That upset me.

I've been 'that guy' before, and it pretty much ruined my day and cost me some business.

#47 6 years ago

I know of two people who have made counterfeit tafg games and sold them that way. A really crappy thing to do and I have since never dealt with them again. They told me laughing about it and it made me think that if they could do it to other people then why not me? These are out there and I can tell you that some of the owners who have them may not even know its not real and could have been taken for a ton of money. At the end of the day, nothing illegal was done here, its a pinball machine and 99.999% of the population couldn't give a crap. However, we all do and it sucks to see people be taken advantage of. I'd let it go as it does not affect you, you know you have a real one and be happy with that oh and please remove the 30k asking price.

#48 6 years ago

To clarify things, this is an original Addams family gold. Unfortunately this machine did lose its plaque at one point. We are not trying to pull one over on anyone. I have machine serial numbers to prove that this is indeed an TAFG, as well as the date of production. If you would like to see them I would be more than glad to upload the serial numbers to show its authenticity. It has not been turned from a blue to a gold edition.. it HAS been re decaled. At the least it is still tafg. The # of which this one is, is unknown. The research we did, was we went to the AFG registry owners list, and looked at the serial number of 979, which was only off a few #'s from 980. If you would like to research this machine yourself here is a photo of the serial number, as well as date of production

sn.jpg sn1.jpg

#49 6 years ago

There ya go, its an original tafg, big deal the plaque number is not correct.

#50 6 years ago
Quoted from pinballdoc:

We are not trying to pull one over on anyone

Good to know and welcome to pinside. Have fun, we're all friends here.
(Most of the time)

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