Milwaukee, WI
OK, finally figured out how to make my machine rest and lock up. When I press both flippers at the same time, whamo. What's the fix for this?
(Topic ID: 164353)
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Firepower
Williams, 1980
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Sana'a
Power supply is actually a brand new modern power supply drop in replacement. Unless you mean the big blue filter cap. MPU and Driver board have already been updated and confirmed working properly. I seem to remember having a friend that had a similar issue but with a more modern pin. Had to have the Bridge Rectifier replaced to fix it. Maybe?
Name of game, manufacturer and year: 1980 Firepower
Did it ever work in your Possession?: No
Did You Run the Diagnostics?: Yes, completes all diagnostics successfully.
Where did the game come from?:Unknown, Seller comes across lots of pins and just turns over what he doesn't keep.
Have needed MODS been done?: Yes, MPU and Driver boards have been completely updated and verified by JohnWartJr
Are any aftermarket boards installed?:Yes, aftermarket PS replacement
What was the last service you performed?: So far replaced 2 known bad coils, repaired/replaced boards. Current troubleshooting leads to activation of both flippers causes game to shutdown/reset (Lock up? All power to the GI remains on but the displays go out and the game is unresponsive).
Battery Corrosion: No, batteries upgraded to Li-Ion
LED or Incandescent lighting?: Currently LED
Blown fuses: All fuses checked for continuity while removed from circuit
Smell:None
Obvious Past Work Performed:Flasher bulb warming circuit disconnected from ground
Do you have a Volt Meter?: Several
Can you solder?: Like the wind
Location: Milwaukee
I have ordered a replacement Bridge Rectifier just to see if the issue resides there. Thanks for your help.
Also, ensure all your boards are properly mounted and every mounting screw installed and snugged down.
You can use your meter to test your old bridge while you wait for the new one just to make sure its the problem. Also check the spade terminals on the bridge to ensure they are good.
Quoted from Deez:Check your flipper coil diodes.
If I had a bad flipper diode, wouldn't the issue show itself during the solenoid test? Why would a bad diode on 1 flipper cause the issue to only present itself when both flippers are pressed at the same time?
Quoted from Schwaggs:Also, ensure all your boards are properly mounted and every mounting screw installed and snugged down.
You can use your meter to test your old bridge while you wait for the new one just to make sure its the problem. Also check the spade terminals on the bridge to ensure they are good.
Yes, I have 5 of 6 screws holding the driver board in place. The space connectors are snug on the bridge rectifier. I didn't actually run a meter across the bridge, but intermittent issues like this that I had with a friends Roadshow had similar symptoms but the BR tested OK, so I opted to just go and order the replacement.
Thanks for the replies everyone, just making sure there isn't anything else I should be checking that I may have overlooked.
Quoted from vid1900:Don't install the top two screws on the driverboard.
Sometimes it causes the MPU to short out against the back.
I only ever put the two top MPU and two bottom driver boards in.
System 7 boards are even tighter around the bottom of MPU / top of driver as far as shorting +5v to the mount bracket / shelf thing.
1 week later
I did make sure I only had the 2 recommended screws in the boards, but still having the issue. Ordered replacement solenoids for the flippers, just going to replace them both this evening. Also ordered a Rottendog replacement power supply (currently has a Gulf Pinball drop-in replacement) to verify whether the PS has anything to do with the issue (all test points check out), and that should be in Monday. The Bridge Rectifier for the solenoids has been replaced, but didn't help the issue. Anything else I can check/test in the interrum?
2 months later
Did anyone come up with a solution to "Flip both flippers at the same time resets game (but doesn't reset sound)?
Repinning the logic power connectors on power supply and CPU didn't help. Reseating all socketed chips didn't help.
This is 100% repeatable. Flip either flipper as much as you want, OK. Flip both at same time, reverts to Attract.
Has anyone did anything that worked and eliminated the dual flipper reset?
Quoted from Lermods:Does it happen when game is cold? If so, pinwiki suggests thermistor issue. Did you test br2? My TZ just started resetting, believe it to be a failing bridge after going through the pinwiki steps.
It does it warm or cold ("cold" isn't really a word down here for a coupla months, yet).
I measured some voltages and came up with ~8.5VDC for the Unregulated 5V, which should be ~12VDC. I think one of the rectifiers (not a bridge for this circuit, just two diodes and a filter cap [Sys6 Gorgar]) may be bad.
The sound board doesn't reset probably because it has its own 5V supply on-board.
Agreed, 8.5V is low considering the input is 9.3V AC. Probably a bad diode which you can check with your meter without removing the board. Just remove J1 from the power supply board (disconnects the transformer from end of the diode).
If the diodes check good, check the AC input voltage to make sure the transformer and wiring are good. Set your meter on AC and one lead on each diode anode. You should see around 9.3V AC. You can also check between each diode and ground. You should get 1/2 of 9.3 or 4.65v since this is a center tapped coil on the transformer with the center tap grounded.
If none of this proves problematic, make sure you have the board mounting screws installed and snugged down. That improves the ground plane between boards and may be the ultimate problem.
Interesting: Since I suspected a power sink by the flipper coils, I grabbed the power supply out of my firepower that suffers from a locked up CPU. Installed it in the Gorgar and it went for a few flips then BLINK, back to attract.
I have another untested driver and was about to install it when I thought about the CPU channel. Someone ad posted it might could short. Pulled the driver board screws and pulled the DB forward enough to confirm the CPU was in the channel. In doing so I noticed that the two mounting screws for the CPU board were loose. I buttoned everything back up without swapping the DB. The game tested fine. I flipped, flipped and double-flipped and triple flipped and then played a 400K+ game. Solid as a rock!
I have the connectors to rebuild the 40 pin if it starts acting up again...the only things I did was a reseat of the right half of the 40 pin and tighten the CPU mounts.
We'll see...thanks Guru-420 for the thread.
6 years later
cody_chunn - I am having the double-flipper crashes game issue. Am I reading correctly that I need to just check for loose screws on the board as the fix?
Quoted from QueenBee61:cody_chunn - I am having the double-flipper crashes game issue. Am I reading correctly that I need to just check for loose screws on the board as the fix?
This is a known issue that the Rottendog MPU had.
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