Earthshaker Sinking Building

(Topic ID: 83896)

Earthshaker Sinking Building


By Stu

4 years ago



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  • 73 posts
  • 24 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by cougtv
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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There are 73 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 4 years ago

Anybody have one of the newer Earthshaker Sinking Building Mods they want to sell? PM me with Price and Shipping costs

#2 4 years ago

One guy made his own:
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/earthshaker-sinking-building-mod
I just picked up an ES and was thinking about trying to make one.

#3 4 years ago

I bought one from basement arcades a few months ago and he said he only had parts to make a couple more. So not sure if mine was one of the "couple".

#4 4 years ago

I think I bought the last from basement arcade... Always worth giving it a shot and shooting the guy an e-mail.

Quoted from BadBrad97:

I bought one from basement arcades a few months ago and he said he only had parts to make a couple more. So not sure if mine was one of the "couple".

#5 4 years ago

If you wanted to build one, his installation manual has a bunch of close ups. The only really difficult part would be getting a close up of the wiring.

http://www.basementarcade.com/arcade/4sale/Earthshaker/ES%20Moving%20Building%20Final%202011.pdf

#6 4 years ago

He said he had to order some crazy parts from china or something and they took a while to arrive. I'm sure if there was enough interest he would do another run.

I too thought I got the "last one he would ever make" and it turned out he made 2 of them for my run.

All that being said, it was well worth the wait. Even though the wait was nerve wracking as he wasn't big on progress updates, took about 3 months, and took payment ($300) up front.

#7 4 years ago

If we are making an interested list then I'm in

#8 4 years ago

Bump nump...Still looking for an Earthshaker Sinking Building Mod....Anybody?

3 weeks later
-1
#9 4 years ago

330 USD for the mod. Pretty steep...imho

#10 4 years ago

I'm the marketing side of the Basement Arcade ES mod. I think Mark said he was going to do some more. We finished our 4th run of Doctor Who kits early this year. I'll ask him. PM me if you're interested and I'll let him know people want these.

#11 4 years ago

I am picking up an ES soon and will be interested in this mod for sure.. Who sells it?

-1
#12 4 years ago

Just get Stu the mod now or he will stop sending art to CPR.

#13 4 years ago

WTF???

Quoted from exflexer:

Just get Stu the mod now or he will stop sending art to CPR

#14 4 years ago

Earthshaker playfield would be nice to go with that mod. hint hint.

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from nocreditdot:

Earthshaker playfield would be nice to go with that mod. hint hint.

It would, but CPR isn't doing the ES PF. He has mentioned that several times.

Stu....I *might* know someone willing to sell his mod. (Slight chance, but I will ask)

#16 4 years ago

Thanks for asking....I was on the original sign-up list for this mod but when they were ready for purchase I still didn't have an Earthshaker pin so I passed on it allowing someone else that did own the machine to but it....Now I have the machine and no mod....

Quoted from dsuperbee:

Stu....I *might* know someone willing to sell his mod. (Slight chance, but I will ask)

#17 4 years ago
Quoted from Stu:

Thanks for asking....I was on the original sign-up list for this mod but when they were ready for purchase I still didn't have an Earthshaker pin so I passed on it allowing someone else that did own the machine to but it....Now I have the machine and no mod....

I picked one up and installed it last year. Besides have to remove the pf and re-route some of the harness a bit, it wasn't a hard install. Did have to notch the repro ramps, but that is not a huge deal.

#18 4 years ago

Was thinking about getting the mod, then I saw the price bought a kit yesterday at Basement Arcade anyway

waiting for 8 weeks is hard...very hard...

#19 4 years ago

I was going to call Mark last night, but the news about our good friend Python kept me from doing it. I'll be sure to let everyone know about another run.

-Al-

#20 4 years ago
Quoted from exflexer:

Just get Stu the mod now or he will stop sending art to CPR.

I'm an guessing this was an attempt at a a joke, just forgot the smiley face.

#21 4 years ago

yeah well, people need to READ what they are writing BEFORE they hit the Send Post button > I was Pretty Insulted by this and had written a fairly nasty reply post prior to my actual reply ( because I actually "read" my own post Prior to actually posting it! )

Quoted from DarkWizard:

I'm an guessing this was an attempt at a a joke, just forgot the smiley face

Quoted from exflexer:

Just get Stu the mod now or he will stop sending art to CPR

#22 4 years ago

No words.......Well a bunch of words but all are not nice.........Kevin Stu and everyone at CPR are great guys period. And everyone needs to stand back a bit and perhaps i don't know...thank them for it! . What they do is for the love of the hobby. NOT because they have to. And they put up with lots of crap on the forums and there is no reason for it. I have dealt with cpr for years and will buy all I can everytime.
No worries Stu everyone who matters knows you are a great guy and i agree about the read twice or even thrice before posting! lol

ANYHOW about your post..... I have an original ES with the sinking building factory installed. If it would help I could send pictures etc. I think you could source original parts If I send pictures. Or grab an original [REAL] kit from AL.
His kits are the best.

#23 4 years ago
Quoted from Stu:

( because I actually "read" my own post Prior to actually posting it! )

lol imagine RGP and pinside if this was done even 50% of the time haha

-3
#24 4 years ago
Quoted from Hawk007:

ANYHOW about your post..... I have an original ES with the sinking building factory installed. If it would help I could send pictures etc. I think we could put a request through to Rick at PPS as I think they want to do kits like this and put what bean counters left out of all WB games back in with full package add on kits. So sweet!

Thanks for trying to find a way to put someone who redeveloped the product and has stood by every one that he sold out of business. That's really good for pinball.

That's the reason that the inferior Doctor Who Wobble head was created. They were cheap, but they didn't work like the original. People noticed and we eventually made more of our better product.

<HighHorse> Actually, a huge problem with this hobby is people inventing things for it any others stealing them. The green mirror for Creature was a friend of mine's and it was stolen. Wobble-Head was the same way. People need to stop discouraging others from even trying. </HighHorse>

#25 4 years ago

Not sure what you mean? I am not trying to steal ideas..or put anyone out of business!....... I am not for the thieving of ideas at all! I like your original kits thank you. And support you 100% I just thought a guy could source these with original parts. [for more$ mind you] If not I am sorry and had no idea. I only try to support people like yourself who are helping make our machines what they should have been. With only the best parts for a good deal.
I just like the guys at CPR and thought he could source original parts and have what he wanted if i supplied pictures.

#26 4 years ago
Quoted from awarner:

Thanks for trying to find a way to put someone who redeveloped the product and has stood by every one that he sold out of business. That's really good for pinball.
That's the reason that the inferior Doctor Who Wobble head was created. They were cheap, but they didn't work like the original. People noticed and we eventually made more of our better product.
<HighHorse> Actually, a huge problem with this hobby is people inventing things for it any others stealing them. The green mirror for Creature was a friend of mine's and it was stolen. Wobble-Head was the same way. People need to stop discouraging others from even trying. </HighHorse>

If someone were to make a product that would readily be available, that'd be much better than some guys making a batch whenever they feel like it. It's not patented or anything, is it? Have products available, and no one else will make this, unless you are charging severely more than it cost to make in parts and time, as there would be no business case for others.. It's all your choice.

#27 4 years ago

I don't think you really understand the magnitude behind producing Reproduction Parts ( Like this one )....A small exercise: The Mod sells for $275 and the actual "cost to produce" is let's say $ 250 (I'm guessing here) so if the guy financing the project makes 50 of these he is into the project for $ 12,500 before he even sells just 1. So his profit is $ 1,250 +/-.....So to make an Additional 50 ( Just to have Hanging Around Collecting Dust While he Trys to Sell Them ) would cost an Additional $ 12,500 > bringing his total Initial Investment to $ 25,000....This being said, he has No Guarantee that he will Ever make his Investment Back, Let Alone a "Profit"....and thats just with 50 extras...If he were to do 100 "extras" to sit on a Shelf collecting dust for a couple of years, then his Inital Investment would be $ 75,000.....Now, I dont know about "you" but I sure dont have that kind of Disposable Income to just let it sit on a shelf and collect dust......Just my 2 ¢

Quoted from FrederikFrost:

If someone were to make a product that would readily be available, that'd be much better than some guys making a batch whenever they feel like it. It's not patented or anything, is it? Have products available, and no one else will make this, unless you are charging severely more than it cost to make in parts and time, as there would be no business case for others.. It's all your choice

#28 4 years ago
Quoted from FrederikFrost:

If someone were to make a product that would readily be available, that'd be much better than some guys making a batch whenever they feel like it. It's not patented or anything, is it? Have products available, and no one else will make this, unless you are charging severely more than it cost to make in parts and time, as there would be no business case for others.. It's all your choice.

OK, let's take a look at what it takes to make one of these. All of the parts are made, one at a time with a C&C. Some individual parts take over an hour each. After you have all the parts you made (at considerable expense), you then have to source motors that will work. You purchase the motors (that probably went up since the last time you made these) and now all you need is wiring harnesses which uses connectors that are not available anywhere so you MAKE YOUR OWN CONNECTORS that allow the unit to be installed without having to splice a single wire. Finally, you assemble it all and put it in a box to sell. Because you don't have unlimited funds, you can only spend $5000.00 of your own money until you get some more orders or can sell the ones you made. then when you sell them, some people start complaining that "They are too expensive" or "They can make them cheaper". This goes along until you sell them all and people want them again. Then they complain that they would pay anything for one now and that you should spend your entire life making these things not knowing if you'll ever sell another.

We have lives with Families. We make this stuff for a modest profit and provide something that no one else does. We can't make them faster, we can only make them well and on our schedule. We've had one return in the 10 years we've made Wobble Heads and ES kits and that was from someone that had someone else install it (ES Kit) for them and that person was annoyed that he had to do it for some reason. We took it back and replaced the motor they stripped out and resold it. Everyone that has them has had no complaints.

So, without any "Skin in the game" you can say whatever you want, but people who start looking for a way to undercut the people really trying to add products to the hobby really piss me off.

#29 4 years ago
Quoted from Stu:

I don't think you really understand the magnitude behind producing Reproduction Parts ( Like this one )....A small exercise: The Mod sells for $275 and the actual "cost to produce" is let's say $ 250 (I'm guessing here) so if the guy financing the project makes 50 of these he is into the project for $ 12,500 before he even sells just 1. So his profit is $ 1,250 +/-.....So to make an Additional 50 ( Just to have Hanging Around Collecting Dust While he Trys to Sell Them ) would cost an Additional $ 12,500 > bringing his total Initial Investment to $ 25,000....This being said, he has No Guarantee that he will Ever make his Investment Back, Let Alone a "Profit"....and thats just with 50 extras...If he were to do 100 "extras" to sit on a Shelf collecting dust for a couple of years, then his Inital Investment would be $ 75,000.....Now, I dont know about "you" but I sure dont have that kind of Disposable Income to just let it sit on a shelf and collect dust......Just my 2 ¢

Or... Like HE said!

#30 4 years ago
Quoted from Stu:

I don't think you really understand the magnitude behind producing Reproduction Parts ( Like this one )....A small exercise: The Mod sells for $275 and the actual "cost to produce" is let's say $ 250 (I'm guessing here) so if the guy financing the project makes 50 of these he is into the project for $ 12,500 before he even sells just 1. So his profit is $ 1,250 +/-.....So to make an Additional 50 ( Just to have Hanging Around Collecting Dust While he Trys to Sell Them ) would cost an Additional $ 12,500 > bringing his total Initial Investment to $ 25,000....This being said, he has No Guarantee that he will Ever make his Investment Back, Let Alone a "Profit"....and thats just with 50 extras...If he were to do 100 "extras" to sit on a Shelf collecting dust for a couple of years, then his Inital Investment would be $ 75,000.....Now, I dont know about "you" but I sure dont have that kind of Disposable Income to just let it sit on a shelf and collect dust......Just my 2 ¢

From a financial standpoint then he simply shouldn't make them with those numbers. In a smaller, slow moving niche market you always need the higher markup since things do sit a bit for the most part. Now, if he is doing purely because its a fun hobby for him and money isn't considered his primary goal then talking about his profit margins and sitting on shelves is irrelevant

I see a lot of issues like this in the last year or so with more folks with lots of great talents joining the hobby. Someone is able to produce the same product in their garage for less money or a variation of it and the original guy is upset. Just see Cointaker for an example. They were basically the only LED supplier and had premium prices. Other folks came in and the prices have dropped. Making it great for us buyers, but poor for the suppliers of course.

I probably just ranted about nothing....nothing to see here

-1
#31 4 years ago
Quoted from awarner:

OK, let's take a look at what it takes to make one of these. All of the parts are made, one at a time with a C&C. Some individual parts take over an hour each. After you have all the parts you made (at considerable expense), you then have to source motors that will work. You purchase the motors (that probably went up since the last time you made these) and now all you need is wiring harnesses which uses connectors that are not available anywhere so you MAKE YOUR OWN CONNECTORS that allow the unit to be installed without having to splice a single wire. Finally, you assemble it all and put it in a box to sell. Because you don't have unlimited funds, you can only spend $5000.00 of your own money until you get some more orders or can sell the ones you made. then when you sell them, some people start complaining that "They are too expensive" or "They can make them cheaper". This goes along until you sell them all and people want them again. Then they complain that they would pay anything for one now and that you should spend your entire life making these things not knowing if you'll ever sell another.
We have lives with Families. We make this stuff for a modest profit and provide something that no one else does. We can't make them faster, we can only make them well and on our schedule. We've had one return in the 10 years we've made Wobble Heads and ES kits and that was from someone that had someone else install it (ES Kit) for them and that person was annoyed that he had to do it for some reason. We took it back and replaced the motor they stripped out and resold it. Everyone that has them has had no complaints.
So, without any "Skin in the game" you can say whatever you want, but people who start looking for a way to undercut the people really trying to add products to the hobby really piss me off.

Seems like your focus is what's better for the small manufactorer, and not for the buyers.

#32 4 years ago

Let it be known that I have bought an ES kit from Basementarcade - And I'm loving it. However I'm not against the idea of someone doing the same thing as others have done, if they can reduce cost, improve availability etc. I mean, it's a niche hobby in the first place, with expensive and limited resources... Impoving upon that is not bad for the average consumer, I believe.

#33 4 years ago
Quoted from FrederikFrost:

Let it be known that I have bought an ES kit from Basementarcade - And I'm loving it. However I'm not against the idea of someone doing the same thing as others have done, if they can reduce cost, improve availability etc. I mean, it's a niche hobby in the first place, with expensive and limited resources... Impoving upon that is not bad for the average consumer, I believe.

How much do you want for your mod? I'm ready to buy it back. Matter of fact, I'll send it to Stu free of charge.

#34 4 years ago
Quoted from awarner:

How much do you want for your mod? I'm ready to buy it back. Matter of fact, I'll send it to Stu free of charge.

I'm not selling it. As a matter of fact I already stated that I love it.

Don't get your knickers in a twist, just because we don't agree how the market should be...

#35 4 years ago

I like your explination better......no calculations....

Quoted from awarner:

OK, let's take a look at what it takes to make one of these.

Sell it back to Al, Sell it back to Al.....LOL

Quoted from awarner:

How much do you want for your mod? I'm ready to buy it back. Matter of fact, I'll send it to Stu free of charge

So with that being said, I'm assuming you would like Other New Companies making Playfields, Backglasses, and Plastics, which would most likely put us, CPR, out on our ass, as we can NOT make or Sell them for any cheaper than we do now....

Quoted from FrederikFrost:

However I'm not against the idea of someone doing the same thing as others have done, if they can reduce cost, improve availability etc. I mean, it's a niche hobby in the first place, with expensive and limited resources...

#36 4 years ago
Quoted from Stu:

So with that being said, I'm assuming you would like Other New Companies making Playfields, Backglasses, and Plastics, which would most likely put us, CPR, out on our ass, as we can NOT make or Sell them for any cheaper than we do now....

No I don't. I don't hope anyone particular will be out on their ass. However I also believe in survival of the fittest. Be the best at what you do, and you(plural) will prevail... Be that you make the cheapest, the best, the wierdest, whatever it requires to remain competetive... That's how the world is I believe...

#37 4 years ago
Quoted from FrederikFrost:

I'm not selling it. As a matter of fact I already stated that I love it.
Don't get your knickers in a twist, just because we don't agree how the market should be...

So would you love it as much if we hadn't over-engineered it so it would work perfectly for years? (My Wobble head kit is 13 years old), Or that you had to splice all of those wires into the harness yourself? I really want that kit back.

#38 4 years ago
Quoted from awarner:

So would you love it as much if we hadn't over-engineered it so it would work perfectly for years? (My Wobble head kit is 13 years old), Or that you had to splice all of those wires into the harness yourself? I really want that kit back.

Why would you want the kit back?

Also, I just stated above that if the product is quality; then there should be no issue? - Unless someone else creates something better..

Edited last part out..

#39 4 years ago
Quoted from FrederikFrost:

Why would you want the kit back?

Stu deserves it more than you do.

#40 4 years ago
Quoted from awarner:

Stu deserves it more than you do.

Then make him one, you made me one.

From now on, everyone that I disagree with will not be deserving of anything that I have anything to do with!

#41 4 years ago
Quoted from FrederikFrost:

Why would you want the kit back?
Also, I just stated above that if the product is quality; then there should be no issue? - Unless someone else creates something better... I don't know, you seem kinda selfish.. "We did this first, now no one can do this". Not that it was selffish to build it in the first place, I'd say it was a very nice effort for the community... But the current attitude is what I'm about.

Don't have a dog in this fight but, that's pretty much how copyrights work. I think since this is such a small community, its more about courtesy and not saying "That's a great idea, I think I'll use it!" instead of the dog-eat-dog world outside of Pinball in your general day to day marketplace. It's more of a courtesy to not copy someones idea and use it to undercut their price.

#42 4 years ago
Quoted from DarkWizard:

Don't have a dog in this fight but, that's pretty much how copyrights work. I think since this is such a small community, its more about courtesy and not saying "That's a great idea, I think I'll use it!" instead of the dog-eat-dog world outside of Pinball in your general day to day marketplace.

Possibly, and I (believe it or not) for one do not like the dog-eat-dog world, however it's just how it is in the real world... And speaking of courtesy, I get that, I really do. But if the supply cannot meet the demand, although small - What's wrong with more suppliers?

#43 4 years ago

I think I missed something. Hawk 007 said he would post pictures of the ORIGINAL sinking building produced by WILLIAMS.

Then everyone got bent out of shape as if he were going to post pictures of the Basement Arcade sinking building and people were going to copy it and steal from Basement Arcade?

#44 4 years ago
Quoted from Quietmouse:

I think I missed something. Hawk 007 said he would post pictures of the ORIGINAL sinking building produced by WILLIAMS.
Then everyone got bent out of shape as if he were going to post pictures of the Basement Arcade sinking building and people were going to copy it and steal from Basement Arcade?

Shh.. Don't tell them now... Or they won't sell you a mod

#45 4 years ago
Quoted from FrederikFrost:

But if the supply cannot meet the demand, although small - What's wrong with more suppliers?

Because little guys don't have lawyers and it's not about supply meeting demand, it's about little guys getting pushed out by big guys with bigger sticks. When the big guys control everything, you'll be glad to pay whatever you want.

#46 4 years ago
Quoted from Quietmouse:

I think I missed something. Hawk 007 said he would post pictures of the ORIGINAL sinking building produced by WILLIAMS.
Then everyone got bent out of shape as if he were going to post pictures of the Basement Arcade sinking building and people were going to copy it and steal from Basement Arcade?

Ummmm:
http://pinballobsession.com/ at the bottom of the page and stuff... We've never hidden anything about the mech. And you can even see how we changed it over the years. All of them still work well as far as we know.

#47 4 years ago
Quoted from awarner:

Because little guys don't have lawyers and it's not about supply meeting demand, it's about little guys getting pushed out by big guys with bigger sticks. When the big guys control everything, you'll be glad to pay whatever you want.

I know where you are coming from.. But I don't know if I think it'll happen too much in the small industry that is pinball.. However since you yourself said you won't be making any of these, due to previous events, I really don't see the hate for the idea of others making it.

Anyway, I didn't mean to step on anyones nerves.. Let's agree to disagree, and be happy that even people you think as idiots like the product you had made.

#48 4 years ago
Quoted from FrederikFrost:

I know where you are coming from.. But I don't know if I think it'll happen too much in the small industry that is pinball.. However since you yourself said you won't be making any of these, due to previous events, I really don't see the hate for the idea of others making it.

Pinball Obsession is dead. Mark has made more devices since we shut it down. I still help coordinate the sales for which he pays me nothing! He's a friend and we do things for each other. I'm talking to him now about another run of these, but we won't need to if you would just sell yours back to me so I can give it to Stu.

#49 4 years ago

Basement arcades took the time to develop/re-engineer these products, not PPS or anyone else. Stu and CPR are not in the business of making motor and gear mods, so parts acquisition and development doesn't fit their model. Al already responded in the most accurate manner about how these are made. In this niche hobby, it really is great anyone is willing to make these as it is done with financial risk. Mark's ES and DW mods are high quality.

Reducing cost and improving availability essentially means (these days) make it in China or similar. If that is anyone's solution let them seek it - at the cost of inhibiting others to develop similarly great mods.

As for PPS reproducing these kits, despite the seemingly high cost, considering the parts and workmanship, they are definitely reasonable from basement arcades. If you want to know what might happen look at FAST pinball. Nothing against FAST but their setup is essentially what Gerry at Multimorphic created years ago in the P-ROC. Now PPS and or WMS are seemingly arranging to tie rule rewrites to specific hardware as the P-ROC hardware won't monetarily benefit either PPS or WMS. It would nice to see the arrangement open - ie. if you want to use FAST fine, if you want to use P-ROC fine, if you want to use the 'pinheck' system fine - any should be a viable alternative to releasing new rules/mods for existing machines. I say this as the development wasn't pioneered by PPS or WMS but others (Multimorphic and Heck first - independently) at their own financial risk.

#50 4 years ago

Just copy the mech from AFM and make it fit the ES building.

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