(Topic ID: 169048)

Early Williams Ball Lift Guides - Reproduction?


By EM-PINMAN

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 36 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by EM-PINMAN
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 13 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

DSC00998 (resized).JPG
DSC00071 (resized).JPG
DSC00070 (resized).JPG
DSC00069 (resized).JPG
DSC00053 (resized).JPG
DSC00051 (resized).JPG
DSC00066 (resized).JPG
DSC00067 (resized).JPG
DSC00063 (resized).JPG
DSC00062 (resized).JPG
New 3-D Printed Part (resized).jpg
DSC09957 (resized).JPG
DSC09956 (resized).JPG

#1 2 years ago

Williams Ball Lift Guides Part #1B-2573:

I don't know much about 3D Printers but I would think that this part could be made using this technology and could be made a little thicker using Nylon/Plastic and more durable?

The originals are super thin sheet metal and prone to tearing compared to a Gottlieb version. It would not matter if the reproduction ones were not metal as you really don't see them unless you are working inside the Cabinet. I would think that there are a lot of early Williams machines that could use a new one and I would think it would be cost effective to make them?

These are not stamped Williams so there would be no need to ask for permission to make these which is a big bonus these days. I would think Nylon/Plastic would last forever as well?

Thoughts?

DSC09956 (resized).JPG
DSC09957 (resized).JPG

#2 2 years ago

Contact Scott Danesi at pinballlife . Scott@pinballlife.com
He does 3d printing for them and this may be a product they'd like to offer .

#3 2 years ago
Quoted from trilogybeer:

Contact Scott Danesi at pinballlife . Scott@pinballlife.com
He does 3d printing for them and this may be a product they'd like to offer .

Thanks for the contact info trilogybeer.

Update 9/19/16: Great News for Williams fans!

Scott at Pinball Life contacted me today and said he would be interested in trying to make these! I will be sending my Ball Guide off to him this week for a template to get the ball rolling (ha ha).

Stay tuned!

Ken

#4 2 years ago

2nd Update 9/19/16:

Talked to Scott at Pinball Life again and he seems to be excited and confident that he can make these and I also mailed off my Ball Guide to him today as well.

1 week later
#5 2 years ago

Talk about fast!

Scott at Pinball Life already has a sample ball guide for me to try out. I will install it in my 1964 Williams Heat Wave when I get it as my 1962 King Pin that the original part came out of is having the cabinet repaired and painted by Pinhead52.

Thank You again Scott for making this happen!

Ken

New 3-D Printed Part (resized).jpg

#6 2 years ago

That looks great! Let us know how it works out.

#7 2 years ago

Is the one the sent, 3D printed, or stamped steel?

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from EM-PINMAN:

Talk about fast!
Scott at Pinball Life already has a sample ball guide for me to try out. I will install it in my 1964 Williams Heat Wave when I get it as my 1962 King Pin that the original part came out of is having the cabinet repaired and painted by Pinhead52.
Thank You again Scott for making this happen!
Ken

Scott Danesi is awesome!

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from Darcy:

Is the one the sent, 3D printed, or stamped steel?

3D Darcy.

#10 2 years ago

1st Prototype Ball Guide received late yesterday and installed on my 1964 Williams Heat Wave today.

1st attempt was a fail unfortunately, but somewhat expected as this is how these can things go.

The good:

All screw/nail holes align perfectly and the prototype fits in the wood cutout in the cabinet just fine. Ball goes from the ball trough into the ball lifter with no problem. Ball is lifted to the top with no hangups from the prototype ball guide.

The Bad:

Once the ball gets to the top of the lift it will not unload onto the shooter lane as the prototype guide is too cupped on the top part and will not release the ball.

The Ugly: There is none really as the prototype looks good, is sturdy, and would last for decades when finished IMO.

Note: I will send the prototype and my Heat Wave ball guide to Scott tomorrow as he already has my King Pin one but Heat Wave has more metal left at the top for him to get a better perspective of how it was built originally.

Stay Tuned. Same Bat time ! Same Bat channel!

DSC00062 (resized).JPG
DSC00063 (resized).JPG
DSC00067 (resized).JPG
DSC00066 (resized).JPG
DSC00051 (resized).JPG
DSC00053 (resized).JPG

#11 2 years ago
Quoted from EM-PINMAN:

Once the ball gets to the top of the lift it will not unload onto the shooter lane as the prototype guide is too cupped on the top part and will not release the ball.


A heatgun might work with shaping that top part.

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

A heatgun might work with shaping that top part.

Most likely I would think he will just make a new prototype as I believe more material would be needed to ramp up the end, but he is the guru so he may find an even better way than either of us thought of.

#13 2 years ago

He'll probably just taper the end more so it pushes the ball out as it gets to the top .

#14 2 years ago

Looks like the top end could stand to be about 1/8" longer to me.

#15 2 years ago

I reworked the prototype ball guide today as Scott told me to do whatever it takes to make it work and.........it works!

Only needed a once over with my Roto Zip to take off some material on top. The left side to the middle came out as needed but the Roto Zip took off too much material and cracked the unit on the right side, so he will modify the piece according to the left side to the middle.

I mailed back the prototype today along with my Heat Wave ball guide to give Scott an overall better guide to developing the 2nd and hopefully final version.

Quoted from KenLayton:

Looks like the top end could stand to be about 1/8" longer to me.

I did take measurements today of the two and they are exactly the same length however I did say to Scott that the banana portion only at the top of the prototype could be increased an extra 1/8" to help with a more gradual lip better than the original, however the current one works just fine now and I am not sure if his 3D printer can make such a change or not.

DSC00069 (resized).JPG
DSC00070 (resized).JPG
DSC00071 (resized).JPG

#16 2 years ago

Cool! I own a 1962 Williams Vagabond but mine seems to work just fine. I wonder if they're cheap enough if it's worth ordering one "just in-case", especially if this happens to be a short/limited run? Thanks for taking the time to mail all of that stuff out EM-PINMAN!

#17 2 years ago

Is the thickness of the plastic, a ball clearance problem? Or is the top part just printed shorter? The original metal part must be thinner.

#18 2 years ago

I had a similar problem as you recently. Was able to get a better banana guide on eBay. Problem is it restricts the ball from being able to get cleanly onto the shooter lane sometimes. I wonder if the original is too short or aligning the top is more important than the bottom.

#19 2 years ago
Quoted from Otaku:

Cool! I own a 1962 Williams Vagabond but mine seems to work just fine.

I bet yours is ripped up too but working fine is not good if your ball guide has torn sheet metal that could be scraping every ball you load causing additional wear to the Playfield and Balls. You should give it a close inspection, better safe than sorry and replace if necessary when the new part becomes available.

Quoted from Otaku:

I wonder if they're cheap enough if it's worth ordering one "just in-case", especially if this happens to be a short/limited run?

I believe that new ball guides will be very reasonable as making the part itself is very cost effective. I do not believe this is a limited run but will be available for sale indefinitely as Scott will have the mold and it will be easy for him to print these up.

Pretty sure these Ball Guides can be used on Williams 50's Woodrails as well, just not sure if they used the same part throughout their manual ball loader production say back to the 40's?

Quoted from Otaku:

Thanks for taking the time to mail all of that stuff out EM-PINMAN!

Your welcome, as you can see I need two of these myself.

Quoted from Darcy:

Is the thickness of the plastic, a ball clearance problem? Or is the top part just printed shorter? The original metal part must be thinner.

No Darcy, It was just that the top of the Prototype was too cupped and not releasing the ball. If you look at the original ball guides (Heat Wave in particular) you can see that the top has no thick edge like the 1st prototype did, it just kind of fanned out. Scott basically made the prototype top the same as the bottom which was wrong but my King Pin ball guide was missing too much metal on top for him to catch that. With my Heat Wave one half of the metal is still there on the right top side so if he had that to begin with it would have given him a much better idea of how to form the top, but alas it was in storage at the time.

#20 2 years ago
Quoted from SteveinTexas:

I had a similar problem as you recently. Was able to get a better banana guide on eBay. Problem is it restricts the ball from being able to get cleanly onto the shooter lane sometimes. I wonder if the original is too short or lining the top is more important than the bottom.

Hey Steve,

With the 1st prototype ball guide I modified the ball gets to the shooter lane every time with a normal push of the loading rod. I believe you are right that the original one should have had the top banana part an 1/8-1/4"" longer to assist the ball getting into the shooter lane. Unfortunately Williams could not make the overall part of the ball guide longer as it currently sits level with the playfield locked down. Even a extra 1/8" overall would have stuck up above it, but with the curved up piece of the apron where the ball enters the playfield they could have extended the banana part as mentioned before, so yes, lining the top is more important.

3 weeks later
#21 2 years ago

Update 10/27/16

Steve at Pinball life emailed me today to let me know he got the parts I mailed but it has been crazy busy at work so he has not had time to work on the 2nd prototype. He said he would get on it asap.

1 month later
#22 2 years ago

Any updates on this?
I'm in the middle of reassembling my Heat Wave and can't wait for a viable solution to my worn guide too.

#23 2 years ago
Quoted from Drano:

Any updates on this?
I'm in the middle of reassembling my Heat Wave and can't wait for a viable solution to my worn guide too.

Update: 11/29/16

Funny you should ask. Got an email from Steve today and going back and forth on the second prototype and actually got a physical test model being sent to me in a few days. It looks good on paper so to speak so hopefully this 2nd one will be the final one before production. I think I can safely say you will see these offered in the next few weeks if this prototype works out. I need a couple as well, so the sooner the better.

Ken

1 week later
#24 2 years ago

Update: 12/12/16

Prototype II was working well and just needs a slight modification so it sits flush inside the cabinet. Balls load smoothly with no jams. It did not like the durabilty test when twisted and cracked easily which makes it even more important to have it fit flush with the cabinet which will alliviate the problem, then it should be good to go for some years to come. Looking into possibly another more durable material as well. Sorry I can't post pics of the modifed version but Scott has classified it as Top Secret.

Prototype III is currently being made and modified.

Ken

1 month later
#25 2 years ago

Update 1/19/17

Great news!

Scott sent me prototype III last week and I got to fully test it and it is a success!

Pinball's load consistently with very little effort from the loader rod. The part seems very durable and fits like a glove as well.

I told Scott the great news and he will have these for sale very soon. Not sure of the pricing yet but I am sure they will be reasonable and well worth replacing your originals that are torn and scrapping up your pinball's each time you load them which only causes more playfield wear.

Scott said he will let me know when these are available for sale so stay tuned to this channel!

Ken

#26 2 years ago

Final prototype III installed in a 1962 Williams King Pin and looks, fits, and works great!

Stay tuned for availability date.

DSC00998 (resized).JPG

#27 2 years ago

I want! I want!
Just putting my Heat Wave back together and would love one of these before I get it all done.

2 months later
#28 2 years ago

Need one too for my Heat wave restoration project. Price is known for it?

#29 2 years ago
Quoted from zuhi:

Need one too for my Heat wave restoration project. Price is known for it?

Still not available and I do not know the price point yet. The good news is I have been play testing the prototype for a couple months and there has been no cracks or breaks which tells me it is durable enough for the long haul and ready for production. I contacted Scott to let him know this, he was quite happy, and he said he would put these into production soon. I am not sure how soon but I know for a fact these will be made and available for purchase at some point. I will continue to be in contact with Scott and let you guys know what stage he is at in getting these ready for purchase.

Thanks for your patience.

#30 2 years ago

Yep, I'm probably going to order a spare or two and either just keep them around or just replace it when I get it so I can keep my nice original intact for years to come - who knows.

-1
#31 2 years ago
Quoted from Otaku:

Yep, I'm probably going to order a spare or two and either just keep them around or just replace it when I get it so I can keep my nice original intact for years to come - who knows.

#32 2 years ago

I don't understand you. No shame in replacing it before it breaks. : )

(and who knows how long they'll be available for, let alone talking about the long-term most Pinsiders don't care to think about because it's past their time - so yeah, if it's cheap, obviously I'll be buying more than one!)

#33 2 years ago

And if you think it's goofy that I'll be preserving the old one, I don't care. Might as well just do it since you can't see it, and then if it ever needs to be re-molded, you have a good functioning intact original one to offer as a base. Even besides all of that and for no other reason whatsoever, an intact original piece of hardware is better than a broken one. No point in letting it continue to degrade if a well-done copy is available, it's a heavy-wear area I would assume. Then one day when you're old and fragile you can put the original that still works back in.

#34 2 years ago
Quoted from Otaku:

Might as well just do it since you can't see it, and then if it ever needs to be re-molded, you have a good functioning intact original one to offer as a base.

That is a very good point as I had to give up two broken ones for Steve to get a mold made and he still had to guess somewhat on the upper part as both had torn. Having just one intact one would have saved time and materials making and testing prototypes.

1 month later
#35 1 year ago

Hope updates in this repro subject will posted here.

1 month later
#36 1 year ago
Quoted from zuhi:

Hope updates in this repro subject will posted here.

Emailed Scott over a week ago and have not heard back, so I'm not sure what is up. I think it would be best at this point that anyone who wants one of these contact Scott directly: Scott Danesi. scott@pinballlife.com. (847) 515-3415.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 76.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
$ 5,799.00
Pinball Machine
Little Shop Of Games
$ 7,199.00
Pinball Machine
Classic Game Rooms
$ 76.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
$ 95.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
From: $ 42.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 29.99
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Lighted Pinball Mods
From: $ 500.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Gameroom Mods
From: $ 175.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Photos
$ 137.00
$ 27.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 13.00
$ 159.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 7,499.99
Pinball Machine
Little Shop Of Games
$ 18.95
$ 70.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 45.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 48.00
Cabinet - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 24.00
Playfield - Other
Pin Monk
From: $ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 87.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lermods
€ 27.00
Cabinet - Other
YOYOKOPTER MODS
$ 25.00
Playfield - Decals
Flashinstinct
$ 19.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside