You mean more opaque. Less transparent. As for manufacturing process, perhaps they can ask Spookypinball or JJP or Heighway or Mirco, since all the upstarts seem to have figured out how much ink to use on their playfields...

sorry, mistyped that, fixed it in my post.

It's odd because they had the process and materials (more opaque ink) perfectly fine when they started, and something somewhere changed. You think they'd simply identify what changed or simply look at what they started with and go back to it.

From the conversation I had it seemed like levels of opacity were never consistent, but that there were some that they feel fell below the acceptable level of a normal variance when silk screening.

That's something that they are going to have to address and they did not tell me what they planned on doing for those that consider their playfields to be defective.

I'm here a little late but if an owner was able to adjust the intensity of the insert lights "down" could that be a solution? From my understanding of the board providing lighting, it contains multiple leds at locations with the ability to self compensate for a failure at a specific location.

IOW, providing insert lighting control in a sub menu similar to how the DMD simulation color is adjusted or how assorted coils are adjusted for intensity.

I brought this up while talking to them and it is something they have considered, but honestly it didn't sound like something they intended to do.

Not sure if this was posted yet, but some more interesting pics here:
http://www.pinballnews.com/games/medievalmadness/index.html

Did not see that yet. Thanks for posting.

Does anybody have decent closeup pictures of an original MM (not a repro)? Are the black font parts partially transparent on those? I'm wondering if they're all somewhat translucent and only the paint mix on some particular batch was TOO thin or what.

Also, does anybody have decent closeup pictures of an MMR with the LEDs shining where the text is still easily visible? or do those not exist?

The print on mine is somewhat translucent, but maybe not as bad as some have shown pictures of. They get blown out by the LEDs, but I'm not sure if that's just because the LEDs are too damn bright or not.

Here's a couple pics of mine. I started a game and killed off Sir Psycho and Howard Hurtz so they would stay lit (not flashing like in test), then replaced the bulb under Howard with one of Terry's "Really F*cking Bright 4-LED 555s:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=2560

These are the brightest 555s you can buy, and a fair bit brighter than the stock MMR insert LED. Psycho still has his regular 555 incandescent for comparison.

Pic one shows playfield view with overhead lighting... howard looks washed out, but that's just the camera not being able to deal with the LED light properly. It's easily readable in person from 5 feet away. Notice the light is so bright it shines through the white AND grey of the castle graphic, but the black is still black. Pic 2 is the exact same situation, except the camera (phone) is directly over howard. This shows just how dark the original game's text is. The surrounding area is as bright as it is in pic 1, but the camera has adjusted exposure so extremely for the superbright LED that everything else is much darker than it really is.

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Yeah, mine definitely washes out more than that.

Here are the pics of my inserts that I attached to the ticket that I opened about them. I noticed they were lightly printed and difficult to read as soon as I unboxed it and even more so when I turned it on. The pics show that even with the LED only just light and not bright at all that it is bleeding through the text.

CGC responded by asking me to send another pic...
Quote "Your serail number does not at all fall in to the small line of suspicion, but can you please submit some photos with the machine off, glass off, and good ambient lighting. What is a good time of the day for us to talk?"

I then responded with the following...
Thanks for your reply, from reports of the issue on Pinside it affects games from #450 onwards which includes mine (#464) there is also another Australian batch customer reporting the issue and I could check if all the Aussie delivered pinballs are the same if you want further verification? I assume they would be.

I have attached a picture taken under the conditions that you asked, which of course will show the text quite legible and proves nothing as the issue is that the ink is too thin so lets too much light through from behind when the LEDs are light as shown in my previous pictures.

You are quite welcome to ring me to discuss further ######### seems we are about 17hrs apart if it's possible to ring here when it's between 0800hrs and 2130hrs that would be most appreciated."

So they then looked at the pic that does not show the issue and told me it looks fine and closed my ticket....without ringing me to discuss.

Their response...
"Your inserts are fine. They would pass inspection today and are clearly within our zone of acceptance. In our new software update we will be introducing the option to tone down the amount of light coming through your inserts. I am confident that this will address your concerns. This new feature is going to delay our release of the DMD software as well, but we are still hopeful by early March.

I am going to close out this ticket, but should you have any additional concerns after you have installed the new software please do not hesitate to reach out to me personally."

I am VERY unimpressed by this, they say mine does not have an issue, but it should look better when the LEDs are turned down. Well as we know the early production games that have the darker more legible text look fine with the LEDs at default brightness and I don't imagine any of those customers will be opting to turn them down.

So my advice to others is to refuse to send them pictures "machine off, glass off, and good ambient lighting" as they will use that against your case.

Seems that CGC are saying the issue only started in game numbers #500 - #750 and that there are very few games affected. But from what has been posted in this thread so far the issue starts at game #450 and is quite widespread. Those who are hoping their games that have not been delivered yet do not have the issue are going to disappointed IMO because if yours looks like mine (and I think many of them will) they are going to ship it as is and tell you to turn the LEDs down and be happy.

I assume the "new software" will be a free bug fix update separate from the colour update, so I'm not sure why that would delay the colour DMD update? Unless they are going to roll them together and either charge for the bug fix or release the colour update for free, let's hope it's the second option.

I still hope they reverse this decision and I will link to this post on the PPS forum in the hope that either Rick or LLoyd can help to get my ticket re-opened.

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Bummer. Keep shouting. It seems Drewblood found that the squeaky wheel got attention.

Sounds like they already are making a statement. Glad I bailed on this headache a long time ago. I like to keep my blood pressure low.

That's pretty much what mine look like. Our game is just before #500 I think. Compared to the shot of the real medieval with the pure black lettering even in the face of a bright light, that's really sad. But hey, it's apparently within tolerances!

I'd just stop adding your two cents here, you dont give a shit since you got your good deal and nobody else has.

Drewblood's MMr insert that he said they agreed to cover with an agreement that would be acceptable-

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Rat's insert that is within CGC tolerances and won't be covered-

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IBTL

I sent him pics just now. I suck at photography. We'll see what they say, but after the post above, I'm not confident. They requested pics with the machine off. Well, the lettering doesn't look bad until the game is turned on. I sent pics with the inserts lit and unlit. Unlit, they look decent. Lit up, they are difficult to read.

They have already told me what their resolution will be, how could any statement change that? I don't expect they will make a public statement at all other than telling people that the new update includes the option to adjust the LED brightness. I don't expect them to say anything about the insert text when detailing the update.

I don't think they should have done a secret deal with you I think that is immoral and I don't think you should feel obligated to keep their secret, but that is up to you. I can therefore only assume that they offered you something other than turning the LED brightness down, because going from loudly demanding a new playfield and nothing else would fix it to being VERY happy with the resolution would surely take more than just being told you will be able to turn down the LEDs in the future sometime.

As you can see by my second picture the light bleeds through even when the LED is just a dim glow, so turning the LEDs down won't fix the problem.

Also who really wants to turn the LEDs down? I bet those with more opaque text will not be choosing to turn down their LEDs when the update is released.

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If you were ever wondering how class-action lawsuits first start out....grab your popcorn.

You were very happy and satisfied that they were going to dim your LEDS?

Far cry from the new playfield he was demanding. Maybe he got laid last night.

Well I think the idea that you got a secret deal came from you saying this Quote Drewblood "I really wish I could explain the resolution but I gave my word I would not."

I really am having trouble getting this through my head, but hopefully you can help set me straight, I have been reading all the posts so far, except the ones you deleted and this is what I deduce but I may well be wrong.

You stated repeatedly that a new playfield would be the only resolution you would accept, then you posted that you were really happy about the fact that CGC had offered you a number of choices to resolve your issue and you thought they were very fair and all trust in CGC and the way they would handle the issue had been restored. You stated that we should just wait as all would be good and that they would sort it but you couldn't tell us what the resolution was as you had given your word not to tell.

Now I have been offered a future software update to dim my LEDs and I was not told to keep that a secret and you are telling me that you have not been offered anything else that I have not been offered and that there is no secret.

OK I think I'm up with it, did I get anything wrong?

Yeah dude, there are a TON of products that are no longer being made because rick told them to stop production. If they didn't stop, he would sue them.

Well obviously from my pictures dimming the LEDs doesn't fix the issue at all, I am amazed that you now think that is a fair outcome.

I'm glad though that you have decided to enjoy your game as I suggested you do earlier, I certainly am enjoying mine it's a great game

I still would like some REAL resolution to the insert issue though after you got me all stirred up about it.

No, you said you did have a problem, they gave you a few choices and you took one that made you very happy. You said the same options were given to someone you knew with a game with the same issue.

Rat was told he has no problem and was given no choices.

From you previous posts there is no way a software diming solution made you happy. No one believes this back pedaling at this point. The deleted posts just reinforces this to people.

By choice, CGC may decide to take their offer to you off the table is what I think worries you now.

Okay all we'd like to keep this thread open because it is one that has value. Please refrain from personal attacks or constant back and forth negative exchanges. We can disagree without doing that or beating a dead horse. Please once you've said your piece let others discuss/share their thoughts. This isn't guided at anyone in particular just want to keep this thread open, civil, and on topic.

I'm sure Mr. Personality will get right on this.

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More pics of original for comparison The last few were interesting.. seems that the lamp matrix was strobing at nearly the same frequency as the camera CMOS.. a perfect black bar would cross the insert every 2 seconds. That's still Terry's superbright.. the rest are normal bulbs. Most pics are overexposed but the black is very much black, and very much opaque.

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The playfields with the slingshot mounts off I didn't think was such a big deal, but I don't see how they can fix this issue without a playfield swap. No one that spends that much money on a remake is going to accept some band-aid fix. You could have the text touched up by a playfield restorer and another coat of clear put on, but that wouldn't be cheap. That's the only way the bad playfields are going to look right.

You would think they would make buyers right if they expect people to buy game number 2.....3....
The way this gets handled will determine if they ever get another dollar from me.

Haven't received my MMR yet. But have been following all these threads, and losing enthusiasm every time I do. The slingshot damage is certainly troubling. But about these inserts, from the pics posted it looks like there are stickers on the inserts. Clearly visible in #226 above. Are these just clear Mylar protectors or do these have the words printed on them. If the latter then couldn't new sticker with thicker/darker ink replace the ones provided? If the ink is printed on the insert itself, couldn't a sticker with ink on it be placed over the insert? I'm just a noob, so someone educate me. I would definitely not be satisfied with a solution of lowering the LED lighting, when the game is advertised to replicate the duller incandescentsof the original as it is.

They dont care bc people will buy the other titles regardless of how this issue gets handled. . Its unfortunate but thats just how people are, I mean look at all the people that will still pre order after all the years of delays and other companies ripping people off totally. I know I will never pre order or buy from a company directly other than stern and its distributors bc im not rich and cant chance not getting a pin or a inferior product. I wish everyone the best but dont see them doing a whole bunch about this issue.

That could be a option but then it wouldn't be smooth unless the play field was re clear coated which is quite a task