(Topic ID: 208095)

Early Data East Booting Issues

By JodyG

6 years ago


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  • 26 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by wayout440
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#1 6 years ago

I was wondering if anyone else has run into issues similar to one I am having with my Torpedo Alley. Upon buying the pin, I could not get the MPU to boot. It appears the 5v section of my power supply were bad. I ordered a new xPin power supply board. In the meantime, I was able to boot and run the game by tapping in a 5v power source to the 5v test point on the power supply board.

Since then, I received the xPin board, and the MPU wouldn't boot when I installed it. I also tried a rebuilt but untested power supply board from a DE Simpsons, and that does not work either. I always have the 5v LED showing power on the MPU, and the PIA will sometimes flash, sometimes turn on and off, and sometimes stay on during various times when I cycle the power. The blanking LED never fires. I have been talking to Doug at xPin, but I am thinking their board is not the problem at this point. I have also tried booting with the sound board and display boards unplugged with no change. Any ideas on where I should look next? Thanks!

#2 6 years ago

Put a DMM on one of the ROM power pins and give us an exact DC measurement of what you see there as compared to the power supply board's +5VDC test point. It is beginning to sound like a possible cable/connector issue.

#3 6 years ago

I will definitely do that this evening. The one thing I do not understand is why it boots when I put an alternate 5v power source on the original power supply board 5v test point. Wouldn't that mean everything from the MPU back to the power supply 5v test point checks out?

#4 6 years ago
Quoted from JodyG:

I will definitely do that this evening. The one thing I do not understand is why it boots when I put an alternate 5v power source on the original power supply board 5v test point. Wouldn't that mean everything from the MPU back to the power supply 5v test point checks out?

Probably, but think about this: If you have some poor resistance point restricting current, the alternative 5v supply may be a shade higher current/voltage wise...so the restriction doesn't matter, but when you put in the OEM or Xpin and it doesn't work then. Does the alternative supply you are using power up the 5VDC on its own ?(not like you had it when feeding into the supply boards test point - but by itself)

One thing that may help us is some real numbers, some actual test measurements...accurate down to tenths of a volt and specific measurement points. Go with pin 1 of 5B on the CPU, its a 27128. Compare that with each of the supplies connected individually.

I have a DE Secret Service with the same supply, so if needed I can make some comparisons later.

#5 6 years ago

Okay, here is what I am finding-

My alternative power supply is showing 4.6 volts at the test point on my DMM. 4.6v at pins 4, 5, 6 on CN17, and 4.5 volts at pin 1 on 5B, 5C.

The xPin supply is showing 5.3v at the test point, 5.2 on the CN17 plug, and 5.1 at pin 1 on 5B/5C.

Kinda the opposite of what I was expecting.

#6 6 years ago

I think my alternate power supply (phone charger) is starting to weaken....it is starting to hang up during a game. It was showing 4.8v a few days ago.

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Okay, here is what I am finding-
My alternative power supply is showing 4.6 volts at the test point on my DMM. 4.6v at pins 4, 5, 6 on CN17, and 4.5 volts at pin 1 on 5B, 5C.
The xPin supply is showing 5.3v at the test point, 5.2 on the CN17 plug, and 5.1 at pin 1 on 5B/5C.
Kinda the opposite of what I was expecting.

Yes, something doesn't jive.

Mine is rock solid at:
5.04VDC. Test point, aftermarket PSU
5.01VDC on CN17 4,5,6
4.96VDC on 5B, 5C.

#8 6 years ago

I am going to have to do some schematic studying tomorrow. Definitely a head scratcher...thanks for sharing your numbers!

#9 6 years ago

I am pretty sure it isn't the power supply now. At this point, I fixed the original one so that it has good 5v. It still doesn't boot, but I can get it to partially boot and show some things on the display if I turn it on and off again fast, like the old Williams trick I have to do on my Black Knight.

#10 6 years ago

I've had that issue with one Sys11 game, which I think early DE boards are based on. In my case the game would always boot successfully the second time, without fail, and run as long as you like. There's a small filter cap I was recommended to replace, near the batteries. C27 on the wms schematic. That helped quite a bit. But like I said, my game was 100% stable every time on second boot... Don't know if yours is that way yet?

#11 6 years ago

It never fully boots up with this issue. The display will show some words for a second or two, and then go out.

#12 6 years ago
Quoted from JodyG:

It never fully boots up with this issue. The display will show some words for a second or two, and then go out.

What are the status LEDs on the CPU board doing during power up and after the game freezes?

Any signs of former corrosion around the battery holder, or is all that perfectly clean?

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#14 6 years ago

Usually, 5v is on, PIA will sometimes turn on and stay on, sometimes it turns on and off. When I fast cycle the power, the blanking LED will stay on a couple seconds and then shut off. Under a cold start, blank never turns on.

The original batteries appeared to be in it when I got it, but thankfully there was no acid damage.

The one IC appears to have been replaced, and some traces were modified at some point as well.

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#15 6 years ago

Wow. Did you verify continuity of all the traces on this PIA? Sure looks like some possible breaks, and I'd be leery of it - especially if you didn't do the work, no telling how much heat those legs were exposed to from prior replacement. Also, how does the underside look?

If it were me, I'd remove that IC replace with a new socket while verifying each trace and connection compared to the schematics. Then install a new PIA and go for there.

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#16 6 years ago

Sounds like a plan! This is the only place on the board that looks to be modified. From what I remember, the back side looked clean other than where you could tell someone replaced this PIA.

#17 6 years ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Sounds like a plan! This is the only place on the board that looks to be modified. From what I remember, the back side looked clean other than where you could tell someone replaced this PIA.

Cool, I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya...just take your time cleaning that up.

#18 6 years ago

This solder job makes me feel sad. Using solder irons should be restricted by weapon laws.....

#19 6 years ago

Thanks! The closer I look at the original photo, it looks like we definitely have a problem here. Pretty amazing for a cell phone grab shot!

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#20 6 years ago

I want to mention this because I have owned two different TA's.

When I installed NVRAM in either of my TA games, it would not consistently boot properly. Once I put regular 6264 ram back in it, it worked just fine for years.

Not saying that is your issue but it's worth a shot if you get that PIA trace sorted out and are still having problems.

Worth noting that TA was the ONLY game I've ever had NVRAM issues with and I've used the different variations of NVRAM in at least 40 different games.

It never worked properly in either of my TA games. When installed, it would boot one out of 4 or 5 tries but all other times it would just be locked up and display some odd random digits on the displays, just as you described.

#21 6 years ago

Hmmm, this is not my experience. Our Torpedo Alley is running fine with a FM1608 FerroRAM for many years. However, Data East CPU boards do have problems running Simtek NVRAM and ZeroPower SRAM (ST, Dallas) and need a workaround if you want to combine them.

Looking at the picture from the CPU board. There is a not-so-nice AMI brand 68A08 processor installed. These are well known to die slowly over the years. Not saying this is the cause of the bootproblem but it is certainly worth it to try another processor (6808, 6802, 68A09, etc.).

#22 6 years ago
Quoted from MarAlb:

Hmmm, this is not my experience. Our Torpedo Alley is running fine with a FM1608 FerroRAM for many years. However, Data East CPU boards do have problems running Simtek NVRAM and ZeroPower SRAM (ST, Dallas) and need a workaround if you want to combine them.
Looking at the picture from the CPU board. There is a not-so-nice AMI brand 68A08 processor installed. These are well known to die slowly over the years. Not saying this is the cause of the bootproblem but it is certainly worth it to try another processor (6808, 6802, 68A09, etc.).

Possible, but being that the pin never worked in the new owners possession, I would suspect the prior rework first. It would be a different circumstance if the pin had been worked and then started to act up on its own. I think this one flaky from the start.

#23 6 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Possible, but being that the pin never worked in the new owners possession, I would suspect the prior rework first. It would be a different circumstance if the pin had been worked and then started to act up on its own. I think this one flaky from the start.

Sure....first action on this board is to clean up the butcher job around the PIA which drives the segments of the alpha nummeric displays.

#24 6 years ago

When I got the machine, the 5v was bad on the power supply. The machine sat for probably 10 years without being played. I hooked in a 5v supply to the power supply test point, and got it running for about a week until I got a replacement board. I now have 3 working power supplies, and none of them will make it boot. I rang out the PIA pins, and everything checks out. Stuck the old RAM and new NVRAM in, and I can get the blanking light to come on for about 2 seconds and go out again. I ordered a new PIA/socket, 6264 RAM, and a new 6808 IC. Hopefully it winds up being one of those things!

#25 6 years ago

And the verdict is......drumroll.....

Bad 6808 processor!

I will replace the bad 6821 when it arrives though. I really appreciate everyones help on this one!

#26 6 years ago

Good find! Glad you got it going.

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