If the only true difference between MPU-1 and MPU-2 is the amount of RAM, like Pinwiki says, then I would think it would be very easy for this to work on cocktails and full size machines. Swapping out a RAM chip would be cake after all the other work, I'm thinking. There are plenty of Star Trips and other tables out there waiting for new life. Props to you for giving this a go Ilikewires !

It's not really his responsibility to tell Echo Lake what to do or not do. He decided to work on this project, and they decided to stop producing boards. If they based that decision on a single person saying they were going to attempt to do something that hasn't even been completed yet, then that's not really his fault. If I said I was going to build a better, cheaper electric car than Tesla, and Tesla shut down production without me ever actually producing or selling a car, it would be a little strange, right?

Just my two cents, but there's effectively no competition for the previously made boards yet, so there was really no reason to stop producing/selling them. There has been a mention of an email from the Echo Lake, so perhaps I don't know the whole story, but unless Ilikewires had some sort of agreement with them or something, then he has no control over their decisions or what they do/don't produce.

It's great that Echo Lake has been producing these boards for everyone in need, and I applaud them for it. I encourage them to keep doing so, and if there comes a time where it's not cost effective because of competition from other sources, it makes sense to bow out. Until then though, I'm not sure why they would stop, and I certainly wouldn't blame Ilikewires for them doing so. He has repeatedly said this is a project, not a full-time priority. I don't expect him to contact Echo Lake and say "Hey, this is taking a while and I've hit some snags, you guys should make more boards." I understand that EL probably doesn't want to spend time/resources to make more boards and then get undercut at the last second potentially, but at this point given the demand and supply situation, I think it's safe to say that they could go ahead and make some if they wish, regardless of the progress of this project.

I hope both EL and ilikewires keep at it. Thumbs up to both for helping all of us out! It would be great for the hobby to have more MPUs out there, and a lot of games would have renewed life. Fingers crossed in the near future, a lot of Game Plan pins are being played again.

Well, the way you phrase things both implies it's his fault that Echo Lake stopped making boards, and that it's the "right thing for him to do" to reach out to them to "tell them" to go ahead with production of their boards.

He didn't start this project with any intention of impacting Echo Lake's plans, and his "actions" didn't put a stop to anything. It was Echo Lake's choice, based on an incomplete project being worked on, to stop doing what they were doing. Similarly, you imply it's on him to reach out to them to tell Echo Lake what to do. That somehow that's the right thing to do. If he wants to do that, that's up to him, but I don't think there's any right/wrong thing involved. Maybe it's just semantics/wording, and you mean it differently than it sounds I think we all want the same thing, boards for our dead games

There have been some other posts knocking him for this situation (not by you), and I just think people need to cut him some slack on the whole Echo Lake thing. I think I can understand their position, but I also think EL needs to make their own choices on board production, and stop trying to base it off whether or not this project ever comes to fruition.

I think a lot of us felt this way. I had heard several times they were no longer being made, only to later hear there was a waiting list, and some were coming. I have passed on a few Game Plan pins over the years because of that uncertainty, which is unfortunate. I think that's part of the reason so many people are excited to see you working on this, because perhaps there will be another (potentially more consistently available and less expensive) option out there. Although I think people would settle for just more readily available!

Regarding testing, plenty of people would be happy to assist with (and pay for) a test board in their cocktail pins. VALIS666 is picking up a Game Plan cocktail from me this week, so I'm sure he would be happy to jump in and help with testing.

I think the pinball world would love to see more Echo Lake boards. Encouraging people to reach out to Jim accordingly makes sense, and they definitely should if they do not want to wait to see how this project turns out.

As discussed previously, this project's owner has been trying to keep EL in the loop, even though he has no obligation to do so. I think everyone needs to stop drawing a connection between the two, and just let ilikewires do his thing without putting pressure on him. Jim's stance is understandable; if he truly needs to have 50 boards produced to make it financially viable, being reticent makes sense. But again, if a manufacturer bases their production on the possible competition of a non-existent product, you can't really turn to the guy working on that unfinished project and expect him to do something about that. If Jim's worried about it, he could simply take orders and say that if the number of orders reaches a target number, he'll make the boards. If it doesn't, then he won't. If the demand is there for 50 boards, and people are willing to pay (or place a deposit perhaps) to secure a board, then it lowers his risk. I'm sure there are other options as well.

Perhaps you should start a separate thread to support EL, and suggest people reach out to Jim. Maybe you can generate enough interest for Jim that way, rather than trying to draw that attention to EL here in the project thread.

Thank you for all your hard work on this Ilikewires , many of us really appreciate it. You've dedicated a lot of hours to this project for the sake of curiosity and the community, and we thank you for it. Whether it works out or doesn't in the end, everyone that comes across this project should commend you for your efforts. Thank you for the update!

Yep, that's what I've said multiple times. EL is basing a decision off non-existent competition, it is indeed silly.

I could call a small manufacturer and tell them I'm going to make something that could wipe out a part of their business, but they would be crazy to stop producing the existing item until they knew for sure I had a product that was viable. I am not sure when EL stopped producing the boards, but I'm guessing at this point they could have sold plenty if they just kept going until something else came out to compete. And even if a new board comes out, there's a good chance there won't be enough of them initially to cover everyone's needs, so any remaining boards EL might still have would sell just fine too.

Using this project as an excuse at this point is a little ridiculous. Perhaps there's another reason, or EL just doesn't want to do it anymore, and this is just an easy thing to point at, who knows? In the end I still say a simple solution, if Jim is truly worried, would be to take deposits or pre-payment on the boards. As long as the deposits/payments cover his costs, he can't lose out. I suggest those of you that are reaching out to EL propose an idea like that, if Jim is still using this project as an excuse not to produce boards. Hopefully that will help!

It may be time to consider that Jim simply might not want to make the boards anymore. The excuse really doesn't hold water at this point.

Agreed. I think those that have issues with EL not producing boards should discuss it elsewhere. ilikewires started this thread to tell people about his project, and keep us updated over the course of time. While I understand some people are disappointed in Echo Lake's lack of production, and feel it's related to this project, it's been mentioned enough here that you're beating a dead horse on the topic. We don't need to rehash it any further.

Let's keep this thread focused on the project moving forward!

This wasn't really directed specifically at you Baz5783 , sorry if you felt directly targeted in some of the comments. There have been several people blaming this project for Echo Lake not producing boards, and bringing it up multiple times. There have even been requests for the guy working on this project to contact Echo Lake and tell them his project is delayed, or ask them to make more boards. He's just doing this in his free time, and because he's interested in it, so it's been frustrating to watch people blame him for things, or ask him to do things like reach out to a company that sees an incomplete, non-production project as a threat to their product. If you go back through the thread, you'll see it brought up multiple times, which derails the actual thread (which was made to tell us about the project, and provide updates and such).

Apologies if you felt singled out, it really wasn't about you specifically. It just gets tiresome seeing the thread has new posts, but it's all about Echo Lake not making boards, instead of project updates and discussion. I'm contributing to that derailment by responding, but my hope is to get the thread back on topic so everyone with interest in the project and keep track of how it's going

On that note, how goes it Ilikewires ? Any chance to mess with it the past couple of weeks?

Wow, this is a pretty big update, and an interesting turn of events with things like working with Echo Lake, and Gameplan? I'll be curious to see what comes of this most recent post/info.

Ilikewires I just wanted to throw out a quick Thank You post to you for continuing to work on this, and make it available to everyone. Despite dealing with some negativity from a few people on the forums, you persevered, and the result is hopefully something that will help the hobby as a whole.

Thanks for all your efforts! I look forward to hearing the feedback from people who try out the boards.