(Topic ID: 190607)

DW MPF - "Warning Keep hands away from mini-playfield" Tech Club


By pinball_faz

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 76 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by neemypeemy
  • Topic is favorited by 23 Pinsiders

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cam (resized).jpg
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There are 76 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 2 years ago

Well, I'm super glad that the new motor worked, but I am so confused why it did not fail the tests.

Congrats!

Blast some Daleks and don't forget the W-H-O Loops!
faz

#52 2 years ago
Quoted from Crispin:

Hi Faz, sorry I didn't see this until after I removed the motor. The new motor and gearbox arrived and I installed it and she works great! I'd like to thank you and Rdoyle for all the help. Hopefully this helps someone in the future when their mini playfield won't raise.

That's awesome! ! Now go play!

2 months later
#53 2 years ago

non-sequiter post.

Here's the opto emitters lit inside the MPF. Remember these are always on..., so the camera test should always look like this.

P4020041 (resized).JPG

faz

2 months later
#54 1 year ago

So the only way to fix the optos is to remove the mini playfield?

#55 1 year ago
Quoted from SuperPinball:

So the only way to fix the optos is to remove the mini playfield?

No

#56 1 year ago
Quoted from SuperPinball:

So the only way to fix the optos is to remove the mini playfield?

It’s pretty hard to do it without removing the MPF, and you can damage the wiring and the optos if you aren’t super careful, but it is possible. I wouldn’t recommend it though. It doesn’t take long to get reallly fast at removing the MPF

2 months later
#57 1 year ago

Hey all. Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I didn't see a good subtopic in the Market area. Sending out a plea to all Time Lords...

Some background: I made a separate post re: my MPF rebuild...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/doctor-who-time-expander-rebuild#post-4263052

After 3+ years (off and on) of struggling with this thing, removing, cleaning, realigning, purchasing replacement parts, etc., I still can't get it back together like it was when I initially took it apart. Faz's guide was big help (Thank you sir), but my patience has run out. If anyone out there has experience in tearing these MPF's down and is interested in completing this rebuild, please PM me. Will pay postage and reimburse you for your time and any parts required.

REALLY missing The Doctor right now.
J

6 months later
#58 1 year ago

Happy New Year all!

So, my fun night staying up to midnight was taking the MPF apart to clean (I already had to get out for opto board).

A couple questions...

1. Interior bracket housing- on the outside of one side, I can feel an actual groove from the wear of MPF going up and down (1st pic). The other side is only shiny from wear, no groove. Will the groove effect performance at all?

2. Interior bracket housing- one roller wouldn't come off, I was able to get the rest off to clean. Any tricks on getting these off when stuck? Or does it really not need to be taken off to be cleaned and I can just leave as is? (pic 2)

Verry happy to see how nice the opto mushrooms cleaned up with Novus! (pic 3)

49509466_2118169118493317_3653861431851352064_n (resized).jpg49750976_297452467462360_7132906029624328192_n (resized).jpg49205891_2223826994539518_6990208700447195136_n (resized).jpg
#59 1 year ago

The groove is not ideal. It probably indicates the bracket is (or was) out of square at some point and the roller cut into the bracket with the added strain. If you can get the bracket square it may not be as bad an issue as the motion will be up/down not sideways.

Since you have everything out of the machine, you can check square really easily. Assemble just the inner/outer bracket with the cam/motor/gear box.
Put the base of the outer bracket into a vice (very light pressure...just enough to hold it). Apply a DC power source to the motor. 9V will push it slowly, 12V better... as much as 20V (that's what the game uses). Run it up/down repeatedly until you get it tweaked just right. Once it's smoothly running,we can see how much space you have to play with. I've successfully added thin strips of UHMW plastic strips on a bracket to take up slop but it also is super slippery so it makes it run nice and smooth.

The rollers don't really roll as much as they skid up and down; but that skidding probably exacerbated the groove (Was it from that side?).

As for the mushrooms... I thought you got a NOS replacement. Nice work!
faz

#60 1 year ago

Anybody know what these were originally lubed with from the factory? I've read to use silicone grease but all I can find is in a spray. I think I used lithium grease and it works great but eventually want to rebuild it.

Thanks

#61 1 year ago
Quoted from yellowghost:

Anybody know what these were originally lubed with from the factory

Yes... it's called "concrete" and many machines still have a lot on them.

Silicone spray is fine. It's not a high friction area (or at least is should not be). If your machine is binding up, grinding or shooting sparks as it goes up and down... something is wrong. As I said before, if you have slop in the bracket I've seen success with the UHMW Tape.

faz

#62 1 year ago
Quoted from pinball_faz:

Yes... it's called "concrete" and many machines still have a lot on them.
Silicone spray is fine. It's not a high friction area (or at least is should not be). If your machine is binding up, grinding or shooting sparks as it goes up and down... something is wrong. As I said before, if you have slop in the bracket I've seen success with the UHMW Tape.
faz

Thanks I will look into that. Where do you apply it? On the outside surface of the outer brackett?

#63 1 year ago
Quoted from yellowghost:

Thanks I will look into that. Where do you apply it? On the outside surface of the outer brackett?

The last time I coated mine, I had all the components off: brackets, rollers and the cam roller. Sprayed it thoroughly all in a box. Let it sit a bit to get into any nooks then wiped off the excess. The spray is obviously not "soaking" into the metal but it does loosen any other funk stuck to the bracket. Don't completely buff it dry, just wipe it down so it's not dripping anything.

Everywhere metal touches metal is the only part that matters but it does help keep the other parts from oxidizing.

faz

#64 1 year ago
Quoted from pinball_faz:

The last time I coated mine, I had all the components off: brackets, rollers and the cam roller. Sprayed it thoroughly all in a box. Let it sit a bit to get into any nooks then wiped off the excess. The spray is obviously not "soaking" into the metal but it does loosen any other funk stuck to the bracket. Don't completely buff it dry, just wipe it down so it's not dripping anything.
Everywhere metal touches metal is the only part that matters but it does help keep the other parts from oxidizing.
faz

Like here for instance?

20190101_171310 (resized).jpg
#65 1 year ago
Quoted from yellowghost:

Like here for instance?

Yes, but IMO that was not something any lube would help. The rollers angle of attack was not square to the bracket, so it cut into the bracket.
faz

#66 1 year ago
Quoted from yellowghost:

Like here for instance?
[quoted image]

soo... I'm curious whose paintstakingly maintained nails those are? Missy, perhaps?

#67 1 year ago
Quoted from pinball_faz:

The groove is not ideal. It probably indicates the bracket is (or was) out of square at some point and the roller cut into the bracket with the added strain. If you can get the bracket square it may not be as bad an issue as the motion will be up/down not sideways.
Since you have everything out of the machine, you can check square really easily. Assemble just the inner/outer bracket with the cam/motor/gear box.
Put the base of the outer bracket into a vice (very light pressure...just enough to hold it). Apply a DC power source to the motor. 9V will push it slowly, 12V better... as much as 20V (that's what the game uses). Run it up/down repeatedly until you get it tweaked just right. Once it's smoothly running,we can see how much space you have to play with. I've successfully added thin strips of UHMW plastic strips on a bracket to take up slop but it also is super slippery so it makes it run nice and smooth.
The rollers don't really roll as much as they skid up and down; but that skidding probably exacerbated the groove (Was it from that side?).
As for the mushrooms... I thought you got a NOS replacement. Nice work!
faz

Thanks pinball_faz ! I do have a 12v power source that I'm going to hook up, will report back once I get to that point.

Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

soo... I'm curious whose paintstakingly maintained nails those are? Missy, perhaps?

rdoyle1978 The nails are mine, I'm getting ready to get them redone this week. I'll keep them updated in my posts along with my MPF reassembly progress.

#68 1 year ago
Quoted from neemypeemy:

Thanks pinball_faz ! I do have a 12v power source that I'm going to hook up, will report back once I get to that point.

rdoyle1978 The nails are mine, I'm getting ready to get them redone this week. I'll keep them updated in my posts along with my MPF reassembly progress.

Wow. I'll subscribe

1 week later
#69 1 year ago

Hello all
I finally have had time to get everything cleaned up and put back together enough to test the MPF action, and had my husband hold while I took the video.

Everything seems to be running smoothly, not catching or binding (not sure if anyone can see anything?). BUT the gear box is loud. All the noise in the video is from the gear box, not any of the metal rubbing when going up and down.

Is this normal?? It was always this loud during play, but I guess I didn't notice as much with the music going as well.

#70 1 year ago

Totally normal! Inside the game, with the glass on and the music you won't hear a thing

Looks like you have a it lined up pretty nicely. How loose is the top/bottom bracket? If there's only a slight play you did an AWESOME job!
faz

#71 1 year ago

Oh, I forgot. Hows center on the cam look? Look from the top down. Figure #28 in my white paper.

faz

#72 1 year ago

pinball_faz as you can see in the pic I had office depot print out your pdf for me, it would have probably taken me a month to get to this point without it!

So using your guide I got the cam centered as close as possible to what you have listed. I added a video to show the play left/right when both moving and when still. Doesn't seem to wobble too much.

Also, note to self, when you think you have taken enough pictures when you take things apart, take more pictures! Also, I wish I would have labeled all the groups of screws. I separated them out together in little bowls, but would have been easier to have them labeled. Next time!

cam (resized).jpg

#73 1 year ago
Quoted from neemypeemy:

pinball_faz as you can see in the pic I had office depot print out your pdf for me, it would have probably taken me a month to get to this point without it!
So using your guide I got the cam centered as close as possible to what you have listed. I added a video to show the play left/right when both moving and when still. Doesn't seem to wobble too much.
Also, note to self, when you think you have taken enough pictures when you take things apart, take more pictures! Also, I wish I would have labeled all the groups of screws. I separated them out together in little bowls, but would have been easier to have them labeled. Next time!

[quoted image]

Would it not be better to test with everything installed. It is very light like this. With the full weight, it might bind in areas when it did not without weight no?

#74 1 year ago
Quoted from yellowghost:

Would it not be better to test with everything installed. It is very light like this. With the full weight, it might bind in areas when it did not without weight no?

Hi yellowghost I will let the experts advise, but what I've read is that this is what is done to do the initial testing before you do put everything back together and you can make adjustments (as if it binds while out, then it def will when installed). Then final test will be once back installed.

#75 1 year ago
Quoted from neemypeemy:

do the initial testing before you do put everything back together and you can make adjustments (as if it binds while out, then it def will when installed). Then final test will be once back installed.

Yup, that's what I suggest. Once the solid foundation is in, you can build upon that. Looks like you've done a great job getting it all aligned... not much slop either. Snug those screws on the cross brace down (canting procedure) to save all your good work.

You had some other issues too:
Electrical - Got all the fuzz off the board (or did you buy a new one)? I did not see the resolution in the other thread.
Mechanical - there was a substantial groove in the side of one bracket. How's the roller riding on that side?

BTW... never saw the paper spiral bound before... pretty cool

faz

#76 1 year ago
Quoted from pinball_faz:

Yup, that's what I suggest. Once the solid foundation is in, you can build upon that. Looks like you've done a great job getting it all aligned... not much slop either. Snug those screws on the cross brace down (canting procedure) to save all your good work.
You had some other issues too:
Electrical - Got all the fuzz off the board (or did you buy a new one)? I did not see the resolution in the other thread.
Mechanical - there was a substantial groove in the side of one bracket. How's the roller riding on that side?
BTW... never saw the paper spiral bound before... pretty cool
faz

Hey Faz,

Roller is doing good on that side, so we'll see how it does once in the machine, fingers crossed.

Yep, got a new board with NVRAM and going to sell the damaged one that needs repaired. Next on the list is the Optos, so going back to this thread https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dr-who-multiball-mp-going-up-amp-down-opto-switch-75-not-working#post-4753103

Thank you for everyone who chimed in on this thread!

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There are 76 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.

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