Duotron 1974 - or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Relays

(Topic ID: 234385)

Duotron 1974 - or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Relays


By Brutilus

63 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 30 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 days ago by dudah
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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There have been 53 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

Power cord (resized).jpg
Wires from P3E (resized).jpg
Replaced front door anti-cheat switch (resized).jpg
Rebuilt Motor 1A (resized).jpg
Light cabinet wire bundle (resized).jpg
Old anti-cheat switch (resized).jpg
Motor 1A Diagram (resized).JPG
Motor 1A Broken Solder (resized).jpg
Motor 1 switches separated and labelled (resized).jpg
The work area (resized).jpg
Handy toolbox (resized).jpg
Handy bins from toolbox (resized).jpg
Motor 4A (resized).jpg
Tommys party (resized).jpg
SB relays issue (resized).jpg
Back cabinet lights - 2 (resized).jpg

#1 63 days ago

After it being suggested that I extricate my cranium from my rectum for contemplating turning my old EM #Duotron into an Arduino-based circuit-emulated monstrosity, I've decided to document the journey of its reconstruction.

A little history...

I've been a pinball fan since I was about 10. Owning my own machine was a dream.

About 12 years ago, a guy in my area was selling Duotron for $185. It "mostly" worked, but needed a lot of cabinet rehab. The rubber had all been replaced. The table, re-waxed. A new ball was included. It was too good to pass up for a neophyte such as myself.

I had to spend weeks cleaning up the box. It had either been owned by a heavy smoker or lived in a smoky bar for a long time, so all of the white paint was an unwholesome beige and the blues looked sickly. The back of the main cabinet was severely deteriorated. The legs and coin door were well rusted, but not pitted.

Using abrasive buffs on my Dremel and a shop vac to catch the dust, I removed as much of the smoke residue as possible from the paint. The same buffs did a great job removing the rust from the legs. Next, I repainted the scoring cabinet and one side of the main cabinet. I chose slightly more vibrant shades of the original colors in high quality paints.

Nine of the bulbs had to be replaced.

As time passed, however, the game's functionality became more and more impaired. At first, the 1000's wheel of the second player wouldn't reset to zero. Then the 10,000's of player one would increment during each ball start. Targets stopped responding and scoring. I could limp things along, for the most part, but was fighting a losing battle.

Two years ago, I had to move my machine to my parents' place for storage as we prepared to sell our house. Their basement had flooded more than once during the time my table was stored there, but it never got wet. I just got it back from them.

It turns out that the damp air did plenty all on its own.

Here's the current list of issues.

General health:
1) All switch contacts look filthy.
2) Left side of cabinet still needs repainting.
3) Glass needs cleaning.
4) Back glass needs a clear coat to preserve paint.
5) I haven't been able to make the left chime ring.

Game reset & Other:
1) Left coin slot does nothing.
2) Right coin slot adds 5000 points to player 1 score and adds 3 credits.
3) Numbered ball lights do not light.
4) On player 1 start, player 1 thousands reel repeatedly cycles 5 times until ball is manually flicked out of the drain. Ball does not kick over automatically.
5) When the ball drains, player 1 thousands reel repeatedly cycles 5 times until ball is manually flicked out of the drain. Ball does not kick over automatically. Player 2 does not start.

Playfield gameplay defects:
1) Top lanes do not score.
2) "A" light at stationary targets does not stay lit unless lane "A" rollover is held down.
3) Pop bumpers do not score.
4) Left-top 500 point lane rollover is not very responsive.
5) 2000 point bonus light is burned out.
6) "Lites C" rollover in drain lane does not score and does not cause gate to move.
7) "Lites B" rollover in drain lane does not score, doesn't light "B" stationary target, and does not cause gate to move.
8) Top right "1000 points or Special" does nothing.
9) Top left "1000 points or Special" does nothing.
10) Lights behind "A" stationary targets do not light.
11) Stationary targets do not score 100 points.

I've got my work cut out for me...

Full cabinet - Right (resized).jpgBack glass (resized).jpgMain cabinet - Left (resized).jpgBumpers (resized).jpgA-C targets - Right (resized).jpgA-B targets - Left (resized).jpgAlley targets - Left (resized).jpgAlley targets - Right (resized).jpgDrain lanes - Left (resized).jpgFlippers (resized).jpgDrain lanes - Right (resized).jpgCoin door Interior (resized).jpgChimes (resized).jpgCredits reel (resized).jpgMain Cabinet - Interior (resized).jpgMain cams - Switches (resized).jpgP2 Score reels (resized).jpgP1 Score reels (resized).jpg
#2 61 days ago

Progress notes:
Cleaned all of the contacts on the switches on the player cam unit and on the stepper itself. They were all black. I tested the action on the stepper and discovered that at certain positions, the stepper action didn't fully commit, unless I was particularly forceful. I scraped away some small amounts of cruft and the action improved, but wasn't perfect yet. This needs to be revisited.

After the cleaning I was double checking all of the back cabinet connections and realized that I hadn't connected one 6-pin connector. (I've circled it in the image.) That changed the behavior of the machine significantly, but I didn't have the energy to document exactly what it was doing.

Multi-pin connectors (resized).jpg

#3 59 days ago

Today's highlights:
Found that the switches connected to to the left coin release were black (no surprise) and mildly bent out of position. Carefully cleaned and re-aligned the bent switch arm. It works fine now.

Found the pins that set the number of credits per coin and set the right-hand coin slot back to 2 credits. That coin slot no longer adds 5000 points to player 1.

With the 6 pin connector re-attached, I am getting point response from the slingshots and the left-hand (smallest) bell is ringing.

Player 1's score still does not reset. Player 1's hundreds reel sticks when going from 8 to 9. Player 1's tens reel does the same.

The switch array behind the game start button was rather mangled. Someone did a real number on the switch arm farthest from the door. It is much straighter now, but it is not quite right. This seems to be a "closed by default" switch and the arms aren't positioned quite right. If they move even slightly, the game goes into "Game Over" status.

I removed the playfield entirely and began cleaning the relays on the back. I need to build a rotisserie...

I began looking at the main relay assemblies. I am concerned about relay assembly "B". One of the switches looks somewhat damaged. I haven't looked up what this relay does, yet. If anyone is reading this and has an opinion on the circled area, I'd love some feedback. I really don't want to have to source these small switches, but I will if I have to.

Relay B with damage highlighted (resized).jpg
#4 57 days ago

Spent some time the morning inventorying the light bulbs in the game. Final count was 3 missing and 11 visibly burned out.

I've ordered 27 LEDs to replace all of the always on bulbs whether they needed replacement or not. I also ordered 20 regular bulbs. I'm concerned that some of the lamp housings need to be replaced. Most of the lamps in the bonus assembly have a good but if that on them.

Meh... Just means I get more soldering practice.

#5 57 days ago

OK... Tonight was productive and disheartening all at the same time.

The score reels no longer continually cycle, but they also don't reset for player 1.
The ball will still not kick out to start the game as it won't finish a reset cycle.
More relays cleaned.
Tried to see what was going on with the 10's scoring reel for player 1, but I have no idea what's wrong. I need to learn exactly how these things work mechanically, but it's tough to do while it's soldered in place.

It's great when you make something work, but when you go through multiple hours of work and don't make any progress, it's a little disheartening. With the number of other home repairs and chores I've got on the docket, I think I may hold off on any more actual work until my box from Marco specialties arrives. It'll be nice to see what the LEDs do to the look of the playfield.

#6 55 days ago

I decided to not take a day off. Momentum is a great thing to ride and inertia too obnoxious to overcome. From here on out, I'll try to include Gottlieb part numbers for anyone interested. This may help you get your machine up and running faster.

I've begun removing playfield features in preparation for lamp replacement. The lower apron, plunger gauge, all acrylics, and lane guides have been removed as you can see in the pictures below. It doesn't look like the upper apron need to be removed until the playfield is put on a rotisserie.

The acrylics look mildly faded and, in some cases, slightly heat warped. Is there a service I can engage to get them re-printed and touched up?

The play surface itself has some chips in the paint. The clear coat looks cracked and worn in places. Should I strip the clear coat and put on a fresh one? Do I touch up the places where the paint is chipped?

Playfield - Partly denuded (resized).jpgPlayfield - Upper stripped (resized).jpgPlayfield - lower stripped (resized).jpgPlayfield - middle stripped (resized).jpg

Upon removal of the acrylics, I found a damaged switch on the left slingshot. The longer blade seems to have lost its contacts (B-17432). More soldering practice once I order the assembly.

Slingshot - lower right damaged switch (resized).jpg

There is a pin missing from the captured ball assembly in the center of the playfield. Looks like a very thin brad.

One of the bumper caps (A-11426) had always seemed a little wonky and I found out why upon removal. One of the securing tabs had cracked. Meh... $6 at Marco's and it was already pretty faded. Not a big deal. I'll order 2 to replace both the broken cap and another cap which is badly faded.

Below, I've included a picture of the bonus lamp array. That's a good bit of rust, but it doesn't seem to be impeding functionality where the bulbs are good. I'll try an polish away as much as I reasonably can.

Bonus lamp array - rust featured (resized).jpg

I'll hopefully have time to tear down the player 1 tens score reel tonight.

#7 55 days ago

This post will be regularly updated with the parts that I need to order. The links included represent no endorsement of any particular company. It was just the first place I was able to source the part.

Parts:
Qty 36 LED bulbs - warm white frosted
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/05-44WWF

Slingshot switch kit (#22224) or contact switch assembly (B-17432)
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/22224-KIT

Score unit small switch (B-14249)

Pop bumper caps (A-11426)
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-11426-B

Shooter tip
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/38-1100B

Qty 3 1-1/16" pinballs
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/PB116-5

Coin door lock

Front door anti-cheat switch (B-8375)
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/B-8375
-or-
Push button and anti-cheat assembly (B-8377)

Glass seal (A-15811)

Tools:
Rotisserie
https://www.marcospecialties.com/control/keywordsearch?SEARCH_STRING=rotisserie

Solder wick
amazon.com link »

Less crappy multimeter
amazon.com link »

Alligator clips
amazon.com link »

Lubricant for score reels
amazon.com link »

#8 55 days ago

You might do well to consider using pinball resource instead of Marco. I find his prices much better. There are a couple of hoops to jump through to do business with them though.....

#9 55 days ago
Quoted from Brutilus:

The play surface itself has some chips in the paint. The clear coat looks cracked and worn in places. Should I strip the clear coat and put on a fresh one? Do I touch up the places where the paint is chipped?

The processes of clearcoating a playfield is a long, time consuming process. It involves completely removing everything from the top of the playfield, re-leveling inserts, light sanding, painting, spraying clearcoat, leveling, buffering and drilling. And that's extremely simplifying the process. If you want to take the dive, there are plenty of resources online, Vid's guide being the most prominent one.

If you aren't quite willing to take the dive, just clean, wax and enjoy. In a home environment, regular waxing and fresh balls should help prevent most playfield wear.

#10 54 days ago

Taking a mental health / "schools are closed so I have to watch the munchkin" day.

I acquired a partial Gottlieb 1978 parts catalog. It's missing the back third of the pages, but it was totally worth the $10 I got it for. It gives me access to the part numbers and explosion diagrams I need for a number of the assemblies that I need to work on. I've scanned, printed, and laminated 2 of the pages so far to keep near the assemblies that I am working on. The score reels were the first one I did this for and boy did it already come in handy.

I started by doing a tear down of the player one "10's" reel this morning. If I hadn't had the diagram, the exploding bunch of parts in my hand would not have been able to be put back together. The spacer had popped off and fallen on the dove grey carpet beneath the box. If I hadn't known what I was looking for, I would have been in real trouble.

The relays were (gasp) filthy. I cleaned them and examined the mechanism. It looked fairly clean. The solenoid was dry, but so were the spring arm, reel, and "fingers". I'm mildly concerned about the last two. A few drops of lube might help, but the parts catalog doesn't say to lubricate this area. It calls for a "very fine film of white lube" on the printed circuit disc. I'm not sure exactly what lubricants they are describing. I'll be asking that in a separate thread and linking the answer here.

The reel still moves VERY slowly from 8 to 9 when manually triggering the stepper. I have no idea why.

I've found this reference (http://homepinballrepair.com/index.php/em-score-reels-gottlieb/) and need to go back and reassemble the unit. I think I put the metal contact on in the wrong position.

After working on the score reel for a while, I changed focus to the motor. Motor 1A looked like a prime candidate for preventing the machine from starting properly, as well. I cleaned 1C and 1B, then worked 1A loose. The contacts were, of course needing a good cleaning. I've worn out my first Plastone file. It was totally worth the purchase. The new concern is the bottom spacer. It looks partially smashed. We'll see how it responds soon enough. The score reels require a lot more work before I can reasonably expect to have an answer to whether or not they are the cause of the start up errors.

I'm very much looking forward to tomorrow. My next box from Marco's is supposed to arrive and I'll have my new bulbs! Thomas (my soon to be 6 year old assistant visible in some of the first pictures) is looking forward to helping me change them out.

Motor relay - 1 bottom with damage - 1 (resized).jpgMotor relay - 1 bottom with damage - 2 (resized).jpgMotor relay - 1 bottom with damage - 3 (resized).jpg
#11 54 days ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

You might do well to consider using pinball resource instead of Marco. I find his prices much better. There are a couple of hoops to jump through to do business with them though.....

I called Steve yesterday and had a great conversation. He suggested that I really dig into the score reels and motor switches before I considered ordering any other parts. He was great to talk to and I will be placing an order with him soon!

#12 54 days ago
Quoted from KingofKoopas:

The processes of clearcoating a playfield is a long, time consuming process. It involves completely removing everything from the top of the playfield, re-leveling inserts, light sanding, painting, spraying clearcoat, leveling, buffering and drilling. And that's extremely simplifying the process. If you want to take the dive, there are plenty of resources online, Vid's guide being the most prominent one.
If you aren't quite willing to take the dive, just clean, wax and enjoy. In a home environment, regular waxing and fresh balls should help prevent most playfield wear.

Sound advice. I've already got my Novus & soft cloths. Pinballs and Millwax are going to be in my next order. Cleaning, waxing, and enjoying it is!

#13 54 days ago
Quoted from Brutilus:

Sound advice. I've already got my Novus & soft cloths. Pinballs and Millwax are going to be in my next order. Cleaning, waxing, and enjoying it is!

I'd personally recommend a good carnauba wax. Combination wax cleaners don't really do a good job at protecting. I personally use Mothers Carnauba Wax, though any brand of pure wax works.
http://www.mothers.com/02_products/product/images/05550-05750.jpg

Also on your comment about lube, while you have the right idea of running most things dry, when you do need to lube Super Lube is the way to go. I use this on printed boards all the time and it can really help bring a dead stepper back to life. https://www.millerhardware.com/images/product/large/8138307.jpg

That reminds me I have a tutorial made on my computer on how to completely disassemble, clean and re-assemble a decagon unit. Now if I can just get Vegas to stop crashing for 5 minutes....

#14 54 days ago
Quoted from KingofKoopas:

Also on your comment about lube, while you have the right idea of running most things dry, when you do need to lube Super Lube is the way to go. I use this on printed boards all the time and it can really help bring a dead stepper back to life. https://www.millerhardware.com/images/product/large/8138307.jpg

Holy crap! I already have a 3 oz tube of this stuff...

#15 54 days ago

OK... I've found a highly likely culprit for 90% of the problems.

Second blade is broken clean off on this switch (B-14249) on the thousands reel.

Gonna give PBR a call tomorrow and place my first order.

On the upside, I cleaned the tens reel thoroughly and lightly greased the slide and circuit board. (Thanks @kingofkoopas!) It moves freely through all ten numbers for the first time!

1000's reel - Bad switch (resized).jpg
#16 54 days ago

Called PBR. Steve said this could in no way be the cause of my machine's ills. He also said that he didn't sell these parts except in dire emergencies.

I went back to cleaning.

The thousands reel and assembly took a while to clean, but it can be cycled through cleanly now.

Then, I gave the back glass wiper a wipe down with alcohol and applied the recommended grease.

I reconnected everything and powered up the machine to give it a quick test. Now the coin slots and start button do not generate a response.

*family unfriendly word*

#17 52 days ago

I've replaced 37 of the bulbs. The warm white LEDs really look spectacular and are much cooler. I couldn't believe how many scorch marks I saw on the plastic around old bulbs.

(Yes, I am aware that this is re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic.)

Moved back to working on the startup sequence. The SB relays, tilt hold relay, and hold relays got some TLC today. Some of the arms looked a little out of sorts and got mild adjustment. I need to confirm which relays should be open and which should be closed by default on the SB relays. Some were a little bent out of shape and didn't seem to do anything when the actuator was tripped.

I'm more concerned about the hold and tilt hold relays as the both hum a bit when closed. Neither actuator arm moves terribly straight. They're also filthy.

#18 51 days ago

A few pictures from yesterday's work...

You'll notice that one of the back cabinet lights is on in one picture, but off in the other. Many of these bulb housings are rather tetchy. Wiggling the bulb & housing just right will make the light stay on. This isn't too big of an issue, but will definitely require some TLC once I get seriously into tuning the machine up. Most of them aren't a concern as they do not present a troubleshooting issue. The two that do are the "Tilt" and "Game Over" lights. After taking these snaps, I broke out the label maker and marked them.

Side note: I need to purchase a bulb wrench / remover. My fingers are too big to change out many of the ones in the score cabinet.

Back cabinet lights - 1 (resized).jpgBack cabinet lights - 2 (resized).jpg

Relay bank SB had an interesting problem. It would never move. Turns out the plate that the spring is attached to had gotten knocked out of position and was stuck. I managed to get it back operational, but only with a fair amount of elbow grease and swearing.

SB relays issue (resized).jpg

#19 51 days ago

Enjoying this thread... I've always had a thing for the Duo/Magnotron machines. Magnotron was one of the first machines I played (and got good at), partly due to the low threshold - it was set to replays at 34000, 48000 and 56000. Also, specials light after hitting the ABC rollovers. Didn't need a lot of quarters to play a lot of games.

Best of luck with the restoration!

#20 51 days ago

When you get a schematic, all the switch positions should be evident to you. Also the small owners manual will state that switch positions are set 4 first ball and play ready to shoot on the play field. Hope that makes sense. Don't know what you added to your order with Steve, but there are lots of common things that can be changed and improved on these older games. There is always a lot of play in The Flipper linkage if you replace those it will help with your flipper strength Etc. The rubber, new ball, coil sleeves, complete flipper rebuild as I mentioned is a good thing.

#21 50 days ago

Bulb wrench = shooter tip rubber, in a pinch.

#22 49 days ago

Before I post anything else, I'd like to wish a very happy sixth birthday to my best little buddy, Thomas!

I'm the big goofy guy in a sweater cutting the cake over top of the little blonde knucklehead. The knucklehead is Thomas. His birthday party was at an old duckpin bowling alley in our area this past weekend. His actual birthday is today.

Tommys party (resized).jpg

This has nothing to do with the restoration...

#23 49 days ago

OK... The real news of the day.

I finally got some time to work on the machine this evening between loads of laundry after both boys went to bed.

stashyboy was right. Having my schematic open in the work area was helpful. As was reading through the startup sequence on page 2 of the operating manual.

The work area (resized).jpg

Neither inserting a coin nor pushing the start button triggered the "S" relay. It's supposed to lock in via its own switch and a motor 2B switch. Time to check the motor 2B switch.

When tripped manually, the motor cycles one position. At this point, a relay on the motor is supposed to actuate the "SB2" relay and the total play meter. Neither happens. When I manually trip the "SB2" relay, the motor begins running and will not stop. I'm going to check how much voltage is making it to the "SB2" relay coil.

While the motor is running, the first player unit is supposed to reset to zero. I already have it set to zero. It doesn't move. I think I've located the P3 switch stack on motor 1A & 4A. 1A looks good. 4A looks not quite right. the contacts that I have circled never actually touch and are filthy.

Motor 4A (resized).jpg

Quick mention for a handy product I found this weekend at Aldi. I needed a toolbox / storage solution for the parts I've picked up and my soldering gear. It was $15. I can use the deeper trays to both hold the parts & fasteners I'm working with now and use the same little buckets to catch coins after the box is up and running.

Handy bins from toolbox (resized).jpgHandy toolbox (resized).jpg

#24 49 days ago

Enjoying this thread! I'm finishing up my last SS project now, and will be diving into my first EM ones soon!

#25 48 days ago

I'm curious how much of a problem under-voltage is. The transformer tests fine on the 6 volt lines, but the 25 volt lines are showing only 20V.

Cleaned off the leads on the transformer. Now I'm getting 5.8V and 24.8V output. I'll call this fixed.

Also... ouch. Stabbed by exposed wires on those leads. I should probably re-solder everything there to make it cleaner.

#26 48 days ago

Unfortunately, you did not start this thread in the EM section. Maybe moderators could move it to the EM section or I recommend that you just start a new thread in the EM section regarding any help questions. Most of us in the EM section do not look in other sections. We are extremely helpful!

#27 47 days ago

Thanks for the suggestion mikala! I've started a topic (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/duotron-restoration-boy-do-i-ever-have-a-lot-of-questions#post-4824595) to begin asking my questions about specific issues. I will cross-post any solutions I receive here, as well.

#28 44 days ago

Tore down Motor 1 today in preparation for rebuilding Motor 1A. (Motor 1A has a thoroughly mangled / melted lifter and a cracked separator.) Each switch stack was carefully removed from the motor housing and labeled. Some 6-32 nuts are keeping each stack together.
Motor 1 switches separated and labelled (resized).jpg

Naturally, I came across a problem. One of wires had broken away from wherever it was attached. The solder point had snapped off. I desperately need some help on figuring out where this originally went.
Motor 1A Broken Solder (resized).jpg

Rather than dwell on this problem, I finished building a diagram of how Motor 1A was assembled.
Motor 1A Diagram (resized).JPG

Motor 4A is going to get the same tear down and documentation treatment as it has a badly mangled blade. More on that later.

#29 38 days ago

Motor 1A has been partially rebuilt. It only required one blade to be rebuilt and 2 replacement separators.
Rebuilt Motor 1A (resized).jpg

The front door anti-cheat switch was mangled beyond my ability to straighten.Old anti-cheat switch (resized).jpg

The new one looks good!Replaced front door anti-cheat switch (resized).jpg

I'm still tracing the mysterious wires coming from P3E in the hope of finding where the mysterious broken wire on Motor 1A came from. I've had to unbind the wrapping around the wire bundle that leads to the light cabinet. Rebinding the cables with modern cable ties.Light cabinet wire bundle (resized).jpg

My back is aching something fierce from hunching over the cabinet for tonight's work. I loosely wrapped a wire tie around the two wires I'm tracing. That should make it a little easier to pick up my work tomorrow.Wires from P3E (resized).jpg

I'll be re-routing the power cables soon. Having the main power cord wrapped in the signalling bundle and making it so blessed short always bugged me. Time for an extension.Power cord (resized).jpg

1 month later
#30 4 days ago

Loving your approach! Keep up the good work, you're giving me motivation to dive into my EM project!

FYI with the jones plugs removed from the bottom, the whole tray pops out very easily for service!

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