(Topic ID: 256547)

DUMPSTER FIREpower

By mrm_4

4 years ago


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  • 524 posts
  • 78 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by mrm_4
  • Topic is favorited by 62 Pinsiders

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#38 4 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

There’s gotta be an easier way. The whole time the little voice in my head is saying. “Just buy the hardtop”
[quoted image]
I couldn’t seem to get the aged white to be perfect so I got it close, flooded the bare wood areas, then fanned the surrounding areas with the off white.
Then had to paint all the planet designs back on to hide the touch up.
Not happy with it but whatever.

The planet looks great. I'd be happy with that!

#41 4 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Thanks!
I’m really hard on myself, and I’m especially frustrated lately with color matching. I had a good streak of hitting colors dead on the money but lately I can’t seem to get it right.
I set the playfield aside for a bit to give my eyes a rest.
Started cleaning the wires for the displays and attempting to repairing the master display board.
They were filthy. The mud dripping off these after spraying mean green is in unreal.
I probably need to replace all the connectors. The thought of doing this for 300 wires makes me nauseous.
I move some unused traces over to replace the missing ones and glued the glass back onto the board. Need a few resistors and I should be ok.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

The resistors you mention are all the 10k resistors near the top of the master display board, right? Several look toasty in your pictures.

Be careful with those display connectors. Those contacts have long been discontinued and are pricey to replace if you can even find them. They rarely fail anyway. If you have a bad contact, try lightly cleaning the contact fingers on the board with a fiberglass sanding pen.

#46 4 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Yes I believe they are all 10k resistors. I’m about to buy a bunch. Might just shot gun it and replace them all to keep myself occupied. As for the contacts the transfer went pretty well. As you can see in the last pic I got them all situated. I really hope this works.
Does anyone know of a way to test the displays without having them installed. I won’t have this backbox ready for power for quite a while and I’d like to see if these things are working.
Maybe alligator clips and a battery on certain points. Anything just to see if the digits light up?

Original plasma displays need high voltage to work. I'm not aware of any way to test them without the original power supply board.

1 week later
#66 4 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Figured out this edge connector and anode configuration on the display panel. Also got all the caps to redo the sound board.
What else other than caps are typically needed for these sound boards?[quoted image][quoted image]

Reflow or replace the header pins.
The CPU and ROM sockets - I typically replace them if they are single wipe type (very common from this era).

2 weeks later
#71 4 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Not my best work but the coin door is better I guess. Pretty sure this piece of crap sat in a lake for a while.
On the hunt for the other 2 yellow credit switch covers and a washer and nut for the high score reset button.
Also I decided to use the prototype drop target art for the center coin acceptor.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Looks GREAT! Coin doors are such a PITA to clean up but when done, they look awesome! Love the center coin slot idea!

#75 4 years ago

You can try something like this for sanding and re-graining stainless. I use the 3M version of this that I've had for years. Much less labor intensive.

https://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DAFE1H0810-3-Inch-1-Inch-4-Inch/dp/B003N9BT4Q/ref=lp_256200011_1_10

2 weeks later
#99 4 years ago
Quoted from ss-pinball:

Firepower is truly an awesome for it's time.
(As an aside, I have a set of black rubbers for the Blackout I'm resurrecting...should look pretty cool. And by the way, thanks for doing this thread. Firepower is REALLY going to happen for me--maybe next...FP and Blackout together in the same lineup...FUGEDDABOUDIT).

I have both and they look really good next to each other. The cabinets are very close. In fact, my son was helping move Blackout to a friends house temporarily and he wondered why I was "getting rid of Firepower"!

1 month later
#198 4 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Time to put the guys back in the back box.
First I needed to desolder the connectors from the old rectifiers. Not sure if this was a hack or if this crap was done in the factory but what a pain.
The new rectifiers are smaller the original that’s for sure. I hope I have the orientation right with these...
Got the boards installed and spent more time than I care to share trying to figure out where all the wires were supposed to go. Also made new labels. Seemed odd putting labels back in for a board that’s not in use but oh well.
I really hope everything is where it’s supposed to be and actually works...
Doesn’t look to bad compared to what I started out with.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Please don't "hope" you have the bridges wired up correctly, please verify. You can do lots of damage if they are wired incorrectly (blowing the big blue cap, boards, etc).

On the new bridge rectifiyers, the single lug that is turned differently than the others is the positive lead, the lug diagonally from the postitive lug is the negative. The other 2 lugs go to the transformer.

1 week later
#235 4 years ago

That looks really good, don't give up now! One more round of sanding and another coat of clear or keep sanding with higher grit paper and polish the shine back.

1 week later
1 week later
#275 3 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Question for anyone following: If a diode is bad on the light sockets what does that do to the board?
[quoted image]

The lamp will either never light (diode failed open) or stay lit all the time and potentially cause other to ghost or light (diode failed closed)

1 week later
1 week later
#342 3 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

So I’ve been having a sound issue.
In the solenoid test I was getting no sound at all. I changed out all the caps and got ROMs but no sound.
Then I realized that the main sound board was missing a processor so I got a new 6802.
Now the noises work but no speech.
So after a ton digging through schematics, board layouts on firepowerpinball.com and looking up chips that might need replaced... I noticed my IC1 on the speech module only has 14 legs but the layouts referenced 16 legs.
That IC1 is a 55536 my board takes a 55516. This damn speech module is from a Space Shuttle and my main board is from a Black Knight
I’m guessing the Black Knight board is fine in my FP but I need to get the appropriate Speech module
[quoted image]

Did you try adjusting the sound-speech balance pot while the tests were running?
Did you put new ROM sockets in the speech board? Those can be just as flakey as the CPU sockets.

I'm not 100% positive but I think those boards are interchangeable. BK uses the 14pin chip too.

#344 3 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

The balance pot just lowers the existing noises. When the voices are up to bat the sound is completely dead. The sockets aren’t new. My thought is if one of the sockets or ROMs were flaky the other 2 would still respond. Initially after all my testing I was about to replace IC3 on the speech board. But I might just buy a new board so I don’t have to worry about it.

You should be able to detect pulsing on the output of speech board IC1 using a logic probe when speech is playing (easy to find on the + side of C1)

There are 1 or 2 electrolytic caps in the audio path on the speech board. C1 1uf which is usually a tantalum cap (they aren't effected by age and doesn't automatically need to be replaced) and C12 10uf that you should replace (if you haven't already) before trying IC3.

#356 3 years ago
Quoted from pinhead_jack:

Definitely not worth buying a whole set if you only have one bad apple. The machine is looking amazing, I don't know you will even notice one it is all lit up and playing.

I agree with this.

1) The GI lighting under that plastic once installed will be nothing like your picture. It will be less bright and therefore the hot-spots will be lowered.
2) Seeing a different color red through that plastic will draw less attention than white light shining through!

#364 3 years ago

I can't find a schematic of that voice board anywhere.

Can you tell me what numbers are on the two 8 pin chips on the voice board?

#366 3 years ago

Thanks, that helps!

You are going to use the logic probe to track the voice signal as it leave the digital to analog converter (IC1) is filtered (IC3) and is mixed with the sound card sounds (1/2 of IC2).

Start the sound test and wait for the part where there should be voice.
Set your logic probe set to TTL (this setting is for most troubleshooting). When you get to measuring the op amps, sometimes the CMOS setting is better at detecting pulsing so try both settings on the logic probe.
Probe pin 3 of IC1 - analog out - you should see pulsing from this pin when the system is playing voice. It should NOT be pulsing when voice is not being played.
If you get pulsing here, you know the digital part of the voice function is working (ROMS, DAC, etc). If no pulsing is here, you should make sure you have activity at pins 9 and 12 of IC1 (clock and data). Both of these should be pulsing when voice is being played.

Assuming you have pulsing at pin 3, move on down the audio path, probing points along the path. Probe pin 2 of IC3 - this is IC3 op amp A's input.

Assuming that is pulsing, measure the output of IC3 op amp A at pin 1.

Assuming that is pulsing, measure the Input of IC3 op amp B at pin 6.

Assuming that is pulsing, measure the output of IC3 op amp B at pin 7.

#368 3 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Im not sure I would call it pulsing (more like just changes to both HI/LO at the same time) but I get some weird activity on IC1 pins 3, 9 , and 12 during the part where there should be voice
on IC3 all the pins just read LOW except pin 8 reads HI, no activity at all through the sound cycle.

There are 3 posible states the logic probe will read. Hi (with a high tone), Low (with a lower tone) and pusling with a "geiger counter" sound.

To test what each state sounds like, try the pins on one of the ROM chips. You can run this test with anything playing on the sound card (not just voice).
Pin 12 is steady low
Pin 24 is steady hi
Pins 7 and 8 are pulsing - the logic probe will sound differnet based on the type of plusing waveform and frequency of the signal. All you are looking for is a different tone than hi or low plus the yellow pulsing light is lit.

When voice is not playing is pin 3 steady high or low?

IC3 pin 1 shows no pulsing at all? If so, I would replace IC3 next

#373 3 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Success!!!
I have voice after replacing IC3
Thanks for your help schwaggs
[quoted image]

Awesome, congrats on the fix! I'm happy to have played a tiny part in the restoration!

2 weeks later
#384 3 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Well tragedy strikes the playfield.
While installing the flipper coil mechs I didn’t notice that the pin in the back of the playfield for adjusting flipper height had come out of the playfield.
So as I began to screw in the plate it was lift up by maybe 1/16th an inch and as I tightened the screw it pushed the pin in and raised the clear on the other side causing it to ghost. Maybe the plate was never screwed all the way down to begin with. Who knows but now I have this issue that I can’t unsee. And the flipper doesn’t hide it. It’s too large of a ghost...
Now what do I do?
I guess since it is not over an insert I could exacto the edge of the ghosted area and then eye drop clear in that area then sand it level and polish out. Might be a risky repair but the idea of this playfield having ghosting after everything makes me nauseous.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

What a heartbreaker. I feel your pain and sympathize with your "can't unsee" comment.

There was a strategy using UV curable clear to wick under ghosting inserts you might be able to use. Maybe remove the pin, drill the hole out with a bit running in reverse (to not pull up any more clear) to give better access to the space between the clear and playfield to wick in clear or super glue.

Maybe try that and if they fail, chip it off, fill with clear, sand, polish?

#386 3 years ago

The other thing to consider is a flipper bat will be covering 1/2 of that spot plus the other 1/2 will be in it's shadow. It might not be nearly as noticeable once the flippers are installed.

#408 3 years ago

WOW! That looks incredible! Congratulations on pulling it all together!

Love the lit scoops with the sticker on the deflector! What a cool touch!

You never talked about re-installing the roll-over switch with the clear in the grooves. Was that a PITA?

#434 3 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Yeah every video i watch with Firepower has loud sound, this thing is a little lower than a normal talking voice. The volume pot goes from 0-5k on the DMM when i test it. I replaced all caps on the board. Not sure why its so quiet. Anything else board related to volume I need to consider?

Only thing I can think of is re-flow or better yet replace all the header pins on the sound board (cold solder joint causing bad connection to speaker or volume control). Re-seat the ribbon between the sound and voice boards. Rotate the balance pot on the voice card from end to end and back to the middle to clean the wiper.

I can't remember but did you replace the 10uf electrolytic cap on the voice board and all the electrolytic caps on the sound board (even the 1uf caps)?

#437 3 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

So a little bit of progress, I pushed the sound test button and rolled the balance pot to all voice and the volume was the same. But when I rolled it all the way to the sounds and no voice the game is loud as hell. So balancing out the sounds and voice is killing the volume. Why would the voice side be so quiet in comparison?

Good find!

My guess is a dried up C12 or bad C1 on the voice board or IC3.

C12 is an electrolytic and should always be replaced when bullet proofing a game. C1 should be a tantalum cap that rarely goes bad but can. IC3 is the filter section for the speech. A weak or dead amp in IC3 can cause low or missing voice.

#439 3 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

But I replaced all 3 of those.
To get the voices working I replaced:
IC3
C1
C4
C12
R12
R13
How likely would it be that the balancing potentiometer is bad?
[quoted image]

Ah yes, I remember now, thanks for the reminder (too many threads).

I see you used a tantalum cap for C12. Do you happen to have a 10uf electrolitic you can try there. The circuit calls for a low leak electrolytic there, not sure it using a tantalum would cause this problem (that is in the audio path from the voice generator to the mixer).

I'd try the cap before suspecting the pot.

#441 3 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Crap!
No nothing on hand. I think the problem I was having initially is I couldn’t find an electrolytic cap that was 10uf and 20 volts when I got the rest from DigiKey. Results kept pulling tantalums. How much does voltage matter here?

Not at all as long as it is over 25V. 50V, 63V, 100V all good.

1 week later
#470 3 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Got the capacitor for the speech board from setzkor
Installed it in the board and unfortunately nothing changed. The voice is significantly lower than the sound effects
[quoted image][quoted image]

Well crap.

Can you doublecheck the socket and solder job on IC3? Do you have another IC3 to try?

2 months later
#493 3 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Any thoughts on tone adjustment for system 6 games to accommodate wider range speakers?

https://lmgtfy.app/?q=speaker+capacitor+calculator

A 200uf cap in series will attenuate 6db per octave below 100hz for an 8 ohm speaker.

A 100uf cap in series will attenuate 6db per octave below 200hz for an 8 ohm speaker.

Either use a bipolar electrolytic (orientation does not matter) or a standard electrolytic (positive of cap to positive lead from amp - negative lead of cap to positive lead of speaker - negative speaker to negative amp)

2 years later
#523 1 year ago

Nice work! Was adding the box to the sub worth it? Did it enhance the sound enough to make it worthwhile?

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