(Topic ID: 242158)

DumbAss test and reproduction PCBs

By DumbAss

5 years ago


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  • Latest reply 46 hours ago by toibs
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    There are 1,642 posts in this topic. You are on page 33 of 33.
    #1601 23 days ago
    Quoted from northvibe:

    Thank you Victor for all the work on these!
    I do have a question, does anyone have a bom or digikey "mylist" for a quick order on digikey or mouser for a sys11a board?

    *****USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!!! I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FULLY TEST THIS BOARD YET*****

    *****EDIT! Also no relay in that list. I had one on hand *****

    System 11b I recently populated. This is minus the PIAs and processors. ***After the build I adjusted lines 85-87 because initially I had ordered the wrong ones. Those 3 items have not been verified to fit / work***

    https://www.digikey.com/en/mylists/list/GL7G1JFV72

    #1602 23 days ago
    #1603 23 days ago

    First of all I'm not very articulate so forgive me if my post jumps all over the place or takes a few reads / edits to make sense or veers off into the weeds then back on track.

    I wanted to post my success story.

    I am in the process of restoring a really REALLY rough Taxi that I had picked up a while ago. Very nostalgic title for me and it seems like all the Taxis that pop up locally either have a rough playfield and or are just too expensive IMO. $4000 seems to be the going rate for a non-restored one.

    This one needed a new playfield and MPU suffered a lot of alkaline damage from being stored with batteries in it for over 20 years.

    I didn't like the average price of a used system 11-b board so I was going to just buy one of the well known replacements.

    I stumbled upon this thread and was pleasantly surprised that someone had made boards available both populated or bare. I love to assemble stuff so I chose to go the DIY route. I reached out to dumbass and he quickly replied about availability, bom, manual etc. I went ahead and requested a bare one and as it turns out we're local to each other so agreed to just meet at NWPAS that was coming up in a few days to pick up the board.

    After I got the board I went through his BOM and tried my best to order the correct components from Digikey. As some of you know that can be quite confusing if you're not really strong in electrical components and how to decode numbers / convert measurements etc.

    I chose to make a list to help others should I be successful and have posted that in this thread.

    I spent a solid day+ assembling the board. The layout is excellent. Silk screening and pad shapes make it real clear what goes where and the polarity of sensitive components. I had the rotted out MPU board to pluck the PIAs and processors from so I didn't bother to order those. Also the DAC has a chip that's hard to find so I also plucked that from the board as well as the relay. I also have plenty of ram so I just used some I had on hand.

    Along the way I had a question here and there so I'd pm DumbAss here and he was always quick to reply. Never got angry nor condescending no matter how trivial the question may have been.

    After I got it all put together I excitedly pulled the MPU from Whirlwind, populated the roms, plugged it in and didn't get much. Dang!

    He sent me a link to Leons bench testing of System 11 so I pulled the board, set it up on my bench, set my power supply to 5v @ 2A and turned it on. I look over at my PS and see it says it's putting out 49v! I immediatley shut it off, disconnected the board and verified I did in fact have it set to 5v but the PS had malfunctioned and was putting out its maximum voltage. Shit!

    I removed that PS and threw it in the scrap pile. I had another so hooked that up and to no surprise the board was dead. Ugh!

    I pulled all chips and tested them in my inexpensive burner. 95% of them were bad. I also used my good WW MPU to test the 6802s and they were also cooked. I have a PIA tester so I tested all of those and sure enough all dead.

    I dug through some parts / boards I have laying around and was able to find another pair of processors and enough pias to populate them again.

    I then dug through my logic chips and had enough to repopulate the board. The others I didn't have i was able to pluck off the donor Taxi board.

    Put the test rom in and it's passing! All the outputs of the pias were toggling!

    Put the WW roms back and plugged a few connectors in to test. Nothing. I messaged dumbass and he advised for me to get a display I had to plug these other connectors in. I did that and LIFE! Game is booting and I'm able to access the test menu.

    Roll through all the tests and everything is working except garbage on the 2nd row of the display.

    Pulled the board and after looking at the schematic I saw that I had put in SR14 backwards. Welp that certainly will do it!

    Corrected that, put it back in WW and life. It passes all tests and works great!

    To sum it up if I hadn't had a malfunction on the bench and soldered that one resistor array in backwards this would have worked the first try.

    The product is excellent and the most important part is the support is 2nd to none!

    Don't forget folks that are on the fence about doing this or just buying a repro board. Support and repairability. Other than a few improvements that he had made to either simplify things or improve things you can 100% follow the Williams schematic in the future should you need to repair anything. I don't believe that can be said about the other products on the market.

    Thank you DumbAss

    #1604 23 days ago

    I lied. the files have been completed and sent to victor for verifying. I will post the dropbox link once I have confirmation that everything is correct.

    edit: see link above

    #1605 22 days ago

    I can't seem to find or remember if there's a cheaper version of an OCD for LED conversion (other than the $$$ on p*nst*d**m). Would like to convert a few of mine but would be expensive on the retail market.

    #1606 22 days ago

    Comet?

    Quoted from pjflyer:I can't seem to find or remember if there's a cheaper version of an OCD for LED conversion (other than the $$$ on p*nst*d**m). Would like to convert a few of mine but would be expensive on the retail market.

    #1607 22 days ago

    Thanks for pointing that out.

    The GI OCD is reasonable, but the insert OCD is still quite pricey IMO.

    #1608 22 days ago
    Quoted from pjflyer:

    I can't seem to find or remember if there's a cheaper version of an OCD for LED conversion (other than the $$$ on p*nst*d**m). Would like to convert a few of mine but would be expensive on the retail market.

    Afterglow (https://github.com/bitfieldlabs/afterglow) is a DIY solution.

    Quoted from pjflyer:

    The GI OCD is reasonable, but the insert OCD is still quite pricey IMO.

    I'm cheap. I'll readily admit it. I prefer to make my own solutions but I also understand people wanting turnkey solutions.

    I started something in my <facetious>copious</facetious> amounts of free time. It's something I want to do for my own personal accomplishment but it has been on hold due to board building commitments but more recently due to show commitments. The show is over but my work pipeline is still beyond full.

    The issue with making a PWM solution is that the software needs to be written and it's a constant cycle of edit-compile-write-execute-debug and this requires time to stay focused. Task switching while in that cycle kills all productivity.

    #1609 22 days ago

    Thanks for the post. I remember this being brought up but forgot of the time factor and focus you have to put into it. I looked at the website and bookmarked it for future use. Summer is a hard time for working on pins for me. So many outside projects to attend to.

    I would think if anyone can, it's Victor!

    #1610 22 days ago
    Quoted from pjflyer:

    I can't seem to find or remember if there's a cheaper version of an OCD for LED conversion (other than the $$$ on p*nst*d**m). Would like to convert a few of mine but would be expensive on the retail market.

    Not to hijack the thread too much, but Afterglow is an open source option.

    I have built a couple and they work well. I’ve never owned a led ocd board, however. I think I still have few blank pcbs here too.

    https://github.com/bitfieldlabs/afterglow

    #1611 22 days ago

    Besides, Comet doesn't sell their GIOCD for System 11 machines. IMO they would benefit from them. When playing in a dark room when the GI starts flashing I lose track of the ball.

    #1612 22 days ago

    mine barely do anything, nothing that would cause you to lose the ball.

    #1613 22 days ago
    Quoted from jrcmlc:

    mine barely do anything, nothing that would cause you to lose the ball.

    All I know for sure is on Taxi they flash so fast I totally lose track of the ball. Especially in multiball.

    #1614 22 days ago

    Holy shit....can you post a video of that?

    Quoted from firehawk618:All I know for sure is on Taxi they flash so fast I totally lose track of the ball. Especially in multiball.

    #1615 21 days ago
    Quoted from firehawk618:

    Besides, Comet doesn't sell their GIOCD for System 11 machines. IMO they would benefit from them. When playing in a dark room when the GI starts flashing I lose track of the ball.

    GI flashing on System 11 machines? I have two and have not seen that. Can you explain?

    #1616 21 days ago
    Quoted from interconnect:

    GI flashing on System 11 machines? I have two and have not seen that. Can you explain?

    Get multiball. Game flashes the GI. Other events trigger the game to flash the GI. As we all know since they're diodes there's zero fade which causes me to lose track of the ball. I didn't mean for this to derail the thread.

    Here's just one example. I didn't lose track of the ball here but there's other events where it flashes the GI and that is what I'm talking about.

    2:23 is another example. Again. Didn't lose track of it this game but I do at times. A little fading action would be real nice.

    #1617 21 days ago
    Quoted from firehawk618:

    Get multiball. Game flashes the GI. Other events trigger the game to flash the GI. As we all know since they're diodes there's zero fade which causes me to lose track of the ball. I didn't mean for this to derail the thread.
    Here's just one example. I didn't lose track of the ball here but there's other events where it flashes the GI and that is what I'm talking about.
    2:23 is another example. Again. Didn't lose track of it this game but I do at times. A little fading action would be real nice.

    Ahh, ok. I see what you mean now.

    14
    #1618 18 days ago

    Got the last little pieces I needed. Various pins (I kept ordering the wrong ones.) Here it is installed and 100% working!

    Last step is pull the board and wash the flux off. I wanted to know I was 100% done before doing this step.

    System 11 01.jpgSystem 11 01.jpg

    System 11 02.jpgSystem 11 02.jpg

    System 11 03.jpgSystem 11 03.jpg

    System 11 04.jpgSystem 11 04.jpg

    22
    #1619 17 days ago

    HUGE HUGE shoutout and thank you to DumbAss for all the work he's done for me on just an absolute shit-pile of stuff over the last few months. Not like I'm telling anyone anything they don't know but this guy knows WTF is going on, he's beyond an expert in the field and everyone who buys the other boards for a few $ cheaper is doing themselves a disservice. Excellent products, beyond in-depth, excellent support and help, just an absolutely HUGE asset to the hobby and community. Cheers Victor! Thanks for everything.

    #1620 17 days ago

    Victor clearly isn’t in a basement.

    #1621 14 days ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    Once a year I "lose" four full days to the Northwest Pinball and Arcade Show. It started as three days but the last four or five shows it has grown to four days. They are long days. Each year is different. It ultimately depends on the games volunteered, the location of the games on the show floor and how well they hold up.
    The full write up (for those interested) is at https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/northwest-pinball-amp-arcade-show-june-7-9-2024-/page/5#post-8217050 in the show thread.
    I have not responded to most messages since the days are long and I am tired at the end of them. I have to play catch up, so please be patient while I do this.
    Thanks to everyone who viewed the talks and I hope you found them interesting and learned something. The president of the show reminded me that the information is recorded and can be viewed at a later time so I hope that it keeps on giving. If you are interested, and something doesn't make sense, then I encourage watching them again since each time something else may sink in. I believe the presentations will be individually (no time scrolling required) available at some later stage. I will share out the slides for those interested.
    You can also ask questions. I hope others who are able to answer the questions will chime in.

    Unfortunately I missed the stream with the presentations. Can they already be found online somewhere? Would also be interested in the slides

    #1622 14 days ago
    Quoted from harig:

    Unfortunately I missed the stream with the presentations. Can they already be found online somewhere? Would also be interested in the slides

    Here you go- Access user GeekgamerTV on YouTube.

    23
    #1623 13 days ago

    Made it easy for yall!

    #1624 13 days ago
    Quoted from firehawk618:

    Made it easy for yall!

    Thank you!

    #1625 10 days ago

    Hmm... that wasnt supposed to happen.. all the Magic smoke escaped and made a loud "crack" sound... oops!

    (WPC-089-SND)

    pop (resized).jpgpop (resized).jpg

    #1626 9 days ago
    Quoted from toibs:

    Hmm... that wasnt supposed to happen.. all the Magic smoke escaped and made a loud "crack" sound... oops!
    (WPC-089-SND)

    Woops!

    #1627 9 days ago
    Quoted from toibs:

    Hmm... that wasnt supposed to happen.. all the Magic smoke escaped and made a loud "crack" sound... oops!
    (WPC-089-SND)
    [quoted image]

    Was that a real audio amp? I've run into a bunch of fakes and remarked parts. Getting frustrating to find quality parts for some part #'s.

    #1628 9 days ago

    Something smells rotten in Denmark. Is that a fourth of July firecracker instead of a transistor? What are those yellow balloons? Are they for the party?

    #1629 9 days ago
    Quoted from Tophervette:

    Something smells rotten in Denmark. Is that a fourth of July firecracker instead of a transistor? What are those yellow balloons? Are they for the party?

    If those yellow tantalums are ever installed backwards they will pop like a firecracker too.

    #1630 9 days ago

    If you are concerned about counterfeit amplifiers, HGSemi is legit and can be had on LCSC. I've used this exact part and tons of TDA2003 and 2050 from them.

    https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/Audio-Power-OpAmps_HGSEMI-LM1875T_C383068.html
    https://www.lcsc.com/datasheet/lcsc_datasheet_2404301117_HGSEMI-LM1875T_C383068.pdf

    #1631 8 days ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    I lied. the files have been completed and sent to victor for verifying. I will post the dropbox link once I have confirmation that everything is correct.
    edit: see link above

    Thanks JM for doing this!

    John

    #1632 7 days ago
    Quoted from Robotworkshop:

    Was that a real audio amp? I've run into a bunch of fakes and remarked parts. Getting frustrating to find quality parts for some part #'s.

    As far as i am aware - Sourced from a well-established eBay seller. However i cannot confim their source.

    To be honest, I dont know if it was an issue with the Amp chip or other associated stuff - Was a new build. Will work my way back through the Circuit diagram and physical board and make sure everything is correct before trying again!
    Does seem weird that it's only that part that has seemingly (at first glance)failed....

    #1633 7 days ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    I lied. the files have been completed and sent to victor for verifying. I will post the dropbox link once I have confirmation that everything is correct.
    edit: see link above

    Thank you for the work you do. I did refer to the system 11 mpu one that you created for a few components my eyes kept glazing past.

    It's entirely possible I missed it as this thread is quite long but is there a link to a directory of all the ones you have created?

    #1634 6 days ago

    Hey all, hoping for a little troubleshooting guidance and help. I've finally completed a full System 9 CPU board and speech daughterboard build for a Comet project. Thanks to a lot of work travel and other responsibilities it's taken me more time than anticipated, but finally was able to get it in the cabinet over the weekend.

    Prior to connecting anything I also recapped the PSU and tested voltages on every lead from that. Everything seemed well within reason. Fresh fuses everywhere too.

    Connected the MPU, but did not connect any of the displays or the playfield yet. Powered it on and... no boot. I get the typical Williams buzz upon hitting the switch, but no LEDs, no numbers on the multi-segment LED, no nothing sadly.

    I checked voltages on the test points on the MPU and all seemed within reasonable limits (4.9 volts on the +5, 13.2 on the +12, etc.) I tried pulling the ROMs to see if that would help, but no change.

    FWIW here's what I have set for Jumpers:

    W1 (reading the docs it seems W12 should be out?)
    W12 (only U20 is populated)
    W101
    W105: Deselect (It's a Motorola)
    W108
    W110

    I confess I wasn't 100% sure on all of these, but hopefully that's correct for my configuration.

    I'd greatly appreciate guidance on logical next steps to troubleshoot, as I'm not really sure where to begin. I don't have an oscilloscope, FWIW, but could see about picking one up if that'd help.

    Many thanks in advance!

    20240708_194939 (resized).jpg20240708_194939 (resized).jpg20240708_194950 (resized).jpg20240708_194950 (resized).jpg
    #1635 5 days ago
    Quoted from TimStevens:

    I'd greatly appreciate guidance on logical next steps to troubleshoot, as I'm not really sure where to begin. I don't have an oscilloscope, FWIW, but could see about picking one up if that'd help.

    TimStevens Disconnect all connectors from the MPU board except power in.
    Will the MPU boot then?

    Next: power off. Disconnect all connectors including power input.
    Meter on diode check.
    Use U34, just above the game ROM as a test.
    Red on pin 7, Black on pin 14.
    What does the meter read?
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    https://www.youtube.com/c/ChrisHiblerPinball
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #1636 5 days ago
    Quoted from ChrisHibler:

    TimStevens Disconnect all connectors from the MPU board except power in.
    Will the MPU boot then?
    Next: power off. Disconnect all connectors including power input.
    Meter on diode check.
    Use U34, just above the game ROM as a test.
    Red on pin 7, Black on pin 14.
    What does the meter read?
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    https://www.youtube.com/c/ChrisHiblerPinball
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    Just confirming, power bring J17, yeah? Sadly no life with just that connected.

    U34 reads 0.475

    #1637 5 days ago

    Definitely follow Chris' advice (above). Connecting only the power connector (1J17) will keep things simple.

    Quoted from TimStevens:

    FWIW here's what I have set for Jumpers:
    W1 (reading the docs it seems W12 should be out?)
    W12 (only U20 is populated)
    W101
    W105: Deselect (It's a Motorola)
    W108
    W110

    Configuration errors are the easiest causes to fix. It looks like you have an OEM 6802 so set Hitachi settings to deselect. I can't see under the speech daughter board but I assume it's an OEM 6802 as well. In this case then install W1.

    The NVRAM module you are using is a 6264 so set to W102 (not W101).

    #1638 5 days ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    Definitely follow Chris' advice (above). Connecting only the power connector (1J17) will keep things simple.

    Configuration errors are the easiest causes to fix. It looks like you have an OEM 6802 so set Hitachi settings to deselect. I can't see under the speech daughter board but I assume it's an OEM 6802 as well. In this case then install W1.
    The NVRAM module you are using is a 6264 so set to W102 (not W101).

    Thanks very much. I'm unfortunately heading out on another business trip right now but I'll change that W101 jumper first thing and try again as soon as I return!

    #1639 2 days ago
    Quoted from firehawk618:

    Thank you for the work you do. I did refer to the system 11 mpu one that you created for a few components my eyes kept glazing past.
    It's entirely possible I missed it as this thread is quite long but is there a link to a directory of all the ones you have created?

    this one?
    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/a6x2yomvv1u3ltry3eke3/s11_cpu__SYS-011-CPU.zip?rlkey=mop3yo0e2dodul3oaqr5w9f59&st=ijv2n6wj&dl=0

    sys11 cpu board (resized).pngsys11 cpu board (resized).png

    #1640 2 days ago

    No. What I meant is a link to all of the ones you have created? Say I was looking for WPC 89 power board how would I find?

    11
    #1641 2 days ago

    Every new owner of a pin with the intent to maintain it themselves should be required to watch this brilliant mans presentation.

    #1642 46 hours ago

    If this the latest revision or a previous one j_m_??
    The board I am currently building is Sys11 MPU Rev13 and doesnt have the Switches on the right side (theres a few other differences too).

    Quoted from firehawk618:

    No. What I meant is a link to all of the ones you have created? Say I was looking for WPC 89 power board how would I find?

    It would be ace if they could all live in the same place - i say this only because I had to trawl theough this post and pull out all the posts j_m_ to be able to get the ones that correspond to the boards i have here.

    Saying that, after the boards, the work j_m_ has done here makes assembling these so much easier... Caps and Resistors first... etc i.e. small to big

    There are 1,642 posts in this topic. You are on page 33 of 33.

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