(Topic ID: 242158)

DumbAss test and reproduction PCBs

By DumbAss

3 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 1,103 posts
  • 176 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by j_m_
  • Topic is favorited by 328 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    View topic image gallery

    DSCF3078 (resized).JPG
    7bd0881f65e13bedbb76d3fafb8c6cea82ba3db4 (resized).jpg
    dec_cpu_DEC-S03-CPU (resized).png
    w95_cpu_WPC-095-CPU (resized).png
    s09_cpu__SYS-009-CPU (resized).png
    C24D3BA7-3511-4F71-89D2-B389DAA50FCE (resized).jpeg
    Dumbass Sys 9 MPU Progress 1 (resized).jpeg
    Dumbass Sys 9 MPU Progress 3 (resized).jpeg
    Dumbass Sys 9 MPU Progress 2 (resized).jpeg
    Original Board Corrosion 1 (resized).jpeg
    Original Board Corrosion 3 (resized).jpeg
    Original Board Corrosion 2 (resized).jpeg
    w95_power_driver_WPC-095-PWR (resized).png
    59ADFE9A-BFFC-4212-AA81-54764F8DD2C6 (resized).jpeg
    FAC3C756-1FA4-4BE6-B28A-470B2A193241 (resized).jpeg
    tip102 - 36c dates (resized).png

    There are 1,103 posts in this topic. You are on page 22 of 23.
    #1051 37 days ago

    here's a sneak peak of what I've been working on
    w95_audio_visual_WPC-095-AVS (resized).png

    #1052 37 days ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    here's a sneak peak of what I've been working on
    [quoted image]

    Looks like an old school Star Wars/Missile Command hybrid arcade game

    #1053 37 days ago
    Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

    Looks like an old school Star Wars/Missile Command hybrid arcade game

    Ha! i said something similar a few weeks back.

    #1054 36 days ago

    WPC95 audio visual board
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/n0et732ucvkrcpg/w95_audio_visual_WPC-095-AVS.zip?dl=0

    w95_audio_visual_WPC-095-AVS (resized).png

    #1055 36 days ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    I should have time to separate the images and post the WPC95 audio visual board this weekend. so, here's your modern art version
    [quoted image]

    Have a drink of Dragon's Milk and call me in the morning. Looks great!

    #1056 35 days ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    Again, not trying to combative or argumentative. Just looking for reasons why such a recommendation exists. I once encountered someone who said they did something because they had been doing it that way for 15 years without a reason and said it was his way or the highway.

    Simply put.. trimming into the solder mound risks cracking as it damages the surface of the joint and causes more physical damage to it.

    This is part of the industry standard for soldering too (J-STD-001).. trimming that goes into the solder mound must be reflowed because they won't trust the joint isn't damaged by the trimming. You're supposed to trim above the wicked mound and not disrupt the hershey kiss.

    #1057 35 days ago

    I think Victor already addressed this.
    Let’s move on please!

    #1058 34 days ago

    hoping to complete this one tomorrow
    w95_power_driver_WPC-095-PWR (resized).png

    #1059 33 days ago

    WPC95 power driver board
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/vs7d2xj52vg0unu/w95_power_driver_WPC-095-PWR.zip?dl=0

    w95_power_driver_WPC-095-PWR (resized).png

    #1060 32 days ago

    just a head's up for those looking for build their own boards up. this is the update that I received from mouser from my parts order back in august
    tip102 - 36c dates (resized).png

    #1061 32 days ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    just a head's up for those looking for build their own boards up. this is the update that I received from mouser from my parts order back in august
    [quoted image]

    I can assist with some of those if you need them sooner.

    #1062 32 days ago
    Quoted from Kawydud:

    I can assist with some of those if you need them sooner.

    thank you for the offer but I was able to source the ones that I needed elsewhere back in september. I just thought that I would post the mouser dates for others to be aware. supply chain issues are still a thing (and it looks like they will continue to be an issue for many components through at least mid-next year).

    #1063 32 days ago

    It’s glorious!

    59ADFE9A-BFFC-4212-AA81-54764F8DD2C6 (resized).jpegFAC3C756-1FA4-4BE6-B28A-470B2A193241 (resized).jpeg
    #1064 32 days ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    just a head's up for those looking for build their own boards up. this is the update that I received from mouser from my parts order back in august

    Quoted from j_m_:

    supply chain issues are still a thing (and it looks like they will continue to be an issue for many components through at least mid-next year).

    Supply chain issues affect me as well. Back in June I ordered some 80SQ045N Schottky diodes from Mouser. Initial estimate was delivery November 2022 (i.e. RSN = real soon now). Manufacturing and delivery dates have been modified a few times since then. It was blown out to March 2023 then to June 2023 and now to November 2023. I honestly don't expect to see them at all. I'm thinking of just canceling the remainder of that order. I bought a few of an alternative to this (90SQ040) just the other day. Good thing because I actually don't have enough 80SQ045Ns to complete the outstanding boards I need to build.

    At the big box merchants, TI 74LS240 and 74LS244 are back in stock but the 74LS245 is still out and will be out for the foreseeable future. Don't even try to look for a ULN2803A. The SMD components are typically more readily available so that is a good reason to switch to SMD. The downside is that servicing the SMD in the future is problematic to the inexperienced.

    It is always possible to buy from questionable merchants (Amazon or eBay) but those merchants have inherent risk.

    #1065 32 days ago

    Also know that the board supports full LED flashers in these System 11B/11C machines (if you want to blinded by LED flashers).

    There is a known issue with flippers causing errant flashing when you install all LED flashers using the OEM board. The flashing comes from 3C, 4C, 6C and 7C. This board adjusts the circuit to correct for the issue with the OEM board. Note that the issue does not occur with incandescent flashers.

    #1066 32 days ago

    Deleted due to lack of interest.

    #1067 32 days ago

    I foresee surface mount upgraded WPC89 in the near future!
    You heard it here first!

    #1068 32 days ago
    Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

    I foresee surface mount upgraded WPC89 in the near future!
    You heard it here first!

    Not new. Been done. PinLED made SMD boards ten years ago. They've, sadly, seemd to have stopped making new boards.

    Quoted from DumbAss:

    The downside is that servicing the SMD in the future is problematic to the inexperienced.

    Only one way for the inexperienced to learn. We may be old, but a lot of us can still learn. I've been puching for SMT boards here for a while. Especially considering how much easier on YOU it would be. Hee.

    #1069 31 days ago

    Eventually, what’s going to be the bottleneck for replacement boards/repairability in the future? Silicon components are already 30+ years old in the original boards. Will they last another 30+?

    I’m starting to take a hard look at my games and their long term preservation. What will happen with ASIC chips start to fail and supply dries up? I imagine with the popularity of WPC games, someone will develop some sort of drop in chip emulator for the CPU and AV board?

    My worry extends more towards less popular stuff with equally custom chipsets: like Gottlieb 80(A/B) hardware.

    #1070 31 days ago
    Quoted from mbaumle:

    Eventually, what’s going to be the bottleneck for replacement boards/repairability in the future? Silicon components are already 30+ years old in the original boards. Will they last another 30+?
    I’m starting to take a hard look at my games and their long term preservation. What will happen with ASIC chips start to fail and supply dries up? I imagine with the popularity of WPC games, someone will develop some sort of drop in chip emulator for the CPU and AV board?
    My worry extends more towards less popular stuff with equally custom chipsets: like Gottlieb 80(A/B) hardware.

    Some of the more custom/non standard ICs will definitely be an issue in the future. However modern SOCs or FPGAs are fast/cheap enough emulation could be a possibility. It might take alot of work/validation but it is possible. You already have boards like the FAST Retro boards that can fully emulate the original WPC boards.

    #1071 31 days ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    Only one way for the inexperienced to learn. We may be old, but a lot of us can still learn. I've been puching for SMT boards here for a while. Especially considering how much easier on YOU it would be. Hee.

    SMT tools and techniques are next on my list for "things to learn". The main issue I think for most people will be having a proper setup for heating and working with components.

    #1072 31 days ago
    Quoted from uncivil_engineer:

    SMT tools and techniques are next on my list for "things to learn". The main issue I think for most people will be having a proper setup for heating and working with components.

    Once I get through this move, I plan on buying a proper setup. I have soldering tweezers for my Hakko, but it's not enough for all components. I can do enough to screw myself over, need to learn more, yup.

    #1073 31 days ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    ordered some 80SQ045N Schottky diodes from Mouser.

    Mouser and Digikey both are showing these are now obsolete and end of their life cycle. Time for a substitute.

    #1074 31 days ago
    Quoted from PinballManiac40:

    Mouser and Digikey both are showing these are now obsolete and end of their life cycle. Time for a substitute.

    Yes. Onsemi 80SQ045N is obsolete.

    I actually ordered 80SQ045NRLG. It is also possible to order 80SQ045NG. Both these are still listed as active. My brain sees them as identical much like it sees TIP102 and TIP102G as identical.

    Substitutes from other manufacturers are also available. I bought some SMC Diode Solutions 90SQ040 that should be perfectly fine.

    The requirements for this component are:

    • Schottky (fast recovery) diode
    • Current rating at least 5A (> rating of the regulator)
    • Voltage rating at 2x (preferably 3x) maximum input voltage (e.g. if input voltage is 12V then use 36V).

    Those requirements are probably overkill but I prefer to use a component that is far over-rated than close to actual.

    #1075 31 days ago
    Quoted from mbaumle:

    I imagine with the popularity of WPC games, someone will develop some sort of drop in chip emulator for the CPU and AV board?

    #1076 31 days ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    Only one way for the inexperienced to learn. We may be old, but a lot of us can still learn. I've been puching for SMT boards here for a while. Especially considering how much easier on YOU it would be. Hee.

    Agreed. I was scared of SMT until forced to venture into that world. It doesn't scare me as much as it used to. Since I don't have hot air equipment I still shy away from it. My (local) friend has the equipment and I don't like to use his stuff unless required.

    Assembling SMT is not bad - as long as I don't make a mistake. This was done recently where I mounted 8x TLC5926 ICs incorrectly and needed them flipped 180 degrees.

    As for doing layout of SMT boards and components, it's a whole different world.

    • For THT you can use either side to connect traces as there are two potential connection points (component and solder side of the board).
    • For SMT you can only use the component side to connect traces. This means that you can run traces on the solder side but you must use a via to get it to the component side of the board to connect to the pad.
    • Another difference with SMT is that the pads are often so close together you cannot run traces between the pads (whereas in THT you can run the traces between the through holes (such as with ICs)).

    I might consider it but initially I would only consider it for higher demand boards. Diminishing component availability may make this happen sooner but I haven't hit a wall with this just yet. I see the advantages. I also see the disadvantages. Like everything in life, it's a balance.

    #1077 31 days ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    As for doing layout of SMT boards and components, it's a whole different world

    I actually learned my board laying skills using SMT, not thru-hole. I like SMT better. Always have.

    Quoted from DumbAss:

    For SMT you can only use the component side to connect traces. This means that you can run traces on the solder side but you must use a via to get it to the component side of the board to connect to the pad.

    True, BUT something to keep in mind:
    1. With SMT boards? Both Sides can be component sides! This is really needed when you have high-density footprints, and need very close decoupling caps..
    2. To help with #1, the assembly factory may (many do, I've only seen one that doesn't so far) allow vias IN the pads themselves. There are gotchas to this (size of the pad, etc), but this can come in handy at times!

    (Sorry for off-tracking the post. I'm just completely pro-SMT. Rare in the pinball world. Heh. )

    #1078 31 days ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    just a head's up for those looking for build their own boards up. this is the update that I received from mouser from my parts order back in august
    [quoted image]

    I haz a bunch of those if you need.

    #1079 31 days ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    Supply chain issues affect me as well. Back in June I ordered some 80SQ045N Schottky diodes from Mouser. Initial estimate was delivery November 2022 (i.e. RSN = real soon now). Manufacturing and delivery dates have been modified a few times since then. It was blown out to March 2023 then to June 2023 and now to November 2023. I honestly don't expect to see them at all. I'm thinking of just canceling the remainder of that order. I bought a few of an alternative to this (90SQ040) just the other day. Good thing because I actually don't have enough 80SQ045Ns to complete the outstanding boards I need to build.
    At the big box merchants, TI 74LS240 and 74LS244 are back in stock but the 74LS245 is still out and will be out for the foreseeable future. Don't even try to look for a ULN2803A. The SMD components are typically more readily available so that is a good reason to switch to SMD. The downside is that servicing the SMD in the future is problematic to the inexperienced.
    It is always possible to buy from questionable merchants (Amazon or eBay) but those merchants have inherent risk.

    I finally found the IRLML6401TR. From a chip broker in HK. So I bought 250 of them. $0.29/each, $35 in freight. FML.

    #1080 31 days ago
    Quoted from mbaumle:

    Eventually, what’s going to be the bottleneck for replacement boards/repairability in the future?

    Connectors. The right ones are getting ever so harder to source. At some point it will have to change.

    Shawn

    #1081 30 days ago

    I sent the link for the WPC95 power driver board .zip file to victor this morning for verification. once approved, I will post the link here

    edit:
    2022.nov.02 - dropbox link posted above

    #1082 28 days ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    I sent the link for the WPC95 power driver board .zip file to victor this morning for verification. once approved, I will post the link here
    edit:
    2022.nov.02 - dropbox link posted above

    Awesome work as always! Thank you!

    1 week later
    13
    #1083 17 days ago

    Just wanted to show off the System 9 board I built up a couple weeks ago. I used the BOM from Victor to source all the components, and timed my order to arrive at the same time as the blank PCB. I took my time, and had it built in a week's worth of evenings. My only delay was waiting for a lead bender to arrive so I could make everything neat and tidy.
    Dumbass Sys 9 MPU Progress 1 (resized).jpeg
    Dumbass Sys 9 MPU Progress 2 (resized).jpeg
    Dumbass Sys 9 MPU Progress 3 (resized).jpeg

    My next step is to binge watch some Chris Hibler videos so I can get up the nerve to clean up the alkaline corrosion from the original Sys 9 MPU.
    Original Board Corrosion 1 (resized).jpeg
    Original Board Corrosion 2 (resized).jpeg
    Original Board Corrosion 3 (resized).jpeg

    #1084 17 days ago

    it's funny how [bad] the original boards now look in terms of component alignment compared to the ones that people are building themselves where the components are all neat and tidy

    21
    #1085 15 days ago

    This piece of artwork arrived today. Thanks to Victor for donating.

    C24D3BA7-3511-4F71-89D2-B389DAA50FCE (resized).jpeg
    11
    #1086 15 days ago

    Another test aid Victor whomped up for me. Very cool.

    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
    http://www.PinWiki.com/ - The new place for pinball repair info

    #1087 12 days ago

    WPC95 cpu board
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ksjma9tkdh7ghng/w95_cpu_WPC-095-CPU.zip?dl=0

    w95_cpu_WPC-095-CPU (resized).png

    edit: dropbox link revised nov.27.2022

    #1088 12 days ago

    Does anyone have a mouser shopping cart they can share for the WPC89 CPU board? Really hoping to avoid the pain of creating one….

    #1089 9 days ago
    Quoted from PinJim:

    Does anyone have a mouser shopping cart they can share for the WPC89 CPU board? Really hoping to avoid the pain of creating one….

    Hang on, I have one. Let me find it.

    Ken

    #1090 8 days ago

    williams system 9 cpu board
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/u2p2soxm24yp7mm/s09_cpu__SYS-009-CPU.zip?dl=0

    s09_cpu__SYS-009-CPU (resized).png

    edit: dropbox link revised nov.27.2022

    #1091 7 days ago

    I'm hoping to have the data east cpu board complete this weekend as well as all of the image separations by component for these last 3.

    that should take care of everyone for all of the larger, more complicated builds

    #1092 7 days ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    I'm hoping to have the data east cpu board complete this weekend as well as all of the image separations by component for these last 3.
    that should take care of everyone for all of the larger, more complicated builds

    Are these linked to dropbox yet? So very excited for these, thank you so much.

    Ken

    #1093 7 days ago

    not yet. it will take me a few hours this weekend to save all of the individual files (by component). I'm hoping to have the WPC95 and system 9 CPU boards completed after I get home from work this evening. the data east cpu board will probably be made available on sunday.

    #1094 7 days ago

    I'll link all of these from the PinWiki too.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    https://www.youtube.com/c/ChrisHiblerPinball - My YT Channel
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #1095 7 days ago

    revised dropbox links updated for the wpc95 and system 9 cpu boards

    edit: nov 27 2022 images verified by victor

    #1096 5 days ago

    data east cpu board
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yjqko3ks0t9r0kl/dec_cpu_DEC-S03-CPU.zip?dl=0

    dec_cpu_DEC-S03-CPU (resized).png

    edit:
    nov 29 2022 dropbox link updated, images verified

    #1097 1 day ago

    with the major boards out of the way, does anyone have any preferences of victor's other boards require the color charts?

    #1098 1 day ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    with the major boards out of the way, does anyone have any preferences of victor's other boards require the color charts?

    WMS opto boards? I don't remember if I saw those done yet?

    Edit: Reasoning, because they're used in a lot of games, and are less game-specific than other boards?

    #1099 1 day ago

    Coyote which boards are you referring to?
    I have the following from victor:
    dec_cpu_DEC-S03-CPU

    s09_cpu_SYS-009-CPU
    s09_cpu_speech_S09-CPU-SPH

    s11_auxiliary_power_SYS-011-AUX
    s11_banzai_run_interconnect_S11-BZR-ICT
    s11_cpu_SYS-011-CPU
    s11_cpu_amplifier_S11-CPU-A02
    s11_cpu_diagnostic_digit_display_S11-CPU-DDD
    s11_cpu_digital_analog_conversion_S11-CPU-DAC
    s11_cpu_fused_special_solenoid_S11-CPU-FSS
    s11_cpu_special_solenoid_trigger_S11-CPU-SST
    s11_interconnect_SYS-011-ICT
    s11_overlay_sound_S11-OVR-SND
    s11_relay_SYS-011-RLY
    s11_sound_SYS-011-SND
    s11_sound_amplifier_S11-SND-A02

    w89_cpu_WPC--089-CPU
    w89_cpu_security_W89_CPU-SEC
    w89_dot_matrix_controller_WPC-089-DMC
    w89_dot_matrix_controller_high_voltage_regulator_W89-DMC-HVR
    w89_power_driver_WPC-089-PWR
    w89_sound_dcs_WPC-089-DCS
    w89_sound_preDCS_WPC-089-SND

    w95_audio_visual_WPC-095-AVS
    w95_cpu_WPC-095-CPU
    w95_power_driver_WPC-095-PWR

    NOTE: bold text indicates the pc boards that I've color mapped

    #1100 1 day ago

    j_m_ He is referring to the WPC 10 Opto boards as pictured in previous posts.

    7bd0881f65e13bedbb76d3fafb8c6cea82ba3db4 (resized).jpgDSCF3078 (resized).JPG
    There are 1,103 posts in this topic. You are on page 22 of 23.

    Reply

    Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

    Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

    Donate to Pinside

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!