(Topic ID: 242158)

DumbAss test and reproduction PCBs

By DumbAss

4 years ago


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  • Latest reply 2 days ago by Tophervette
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    There are 1,564 posts in this topic. You are on page 17 of 32.
    #801 1 year ago

    Billc479 That one would sure get it done!
    Clive of bigclivedotcom uses a handheld lead former occasionally. Pretty neat.

    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
    http://www.PinWiki.com/ - The new place for pinball repair info

    #802 1 year ago

    Hey how ya doing? Did you do your talk presentation at NW pinball faire?
    I am thinking of doing one of your 10 opto boards for my 1992 dr Who. Which is mounted horizontal and pre-Popeye :)I think.
    How is your que of work jobs. What is your backlog like?
    What is your latest fun project?
    Inquiring minds want to know.....

    #803 1 year ago

    The Northwest Pinball and Arcade Show 2022 has occupied most of my time. Machine preparation and transport to a pickup spot prior to the show. Thursday was setup. Friday, Saturday and Sunday were show days. Sunday was also tear down. A day to recover. A board picked up at the show for repair. Back to building the June work quota. Interrupted by more board repair related activities.

    Quoted from DumbAss:

    It does indeed not fit. I will have to revise the board and shift the power connector to make it fit. Apologies for this. I will follow up with you (offline = PM) to get this resolved.

    I have a revision for this. I have built one but I want to be sure about this by actually installing it in a machine.

    Quoted from ChrisHibler:

    I don't really like the red "triangular" benders.

    I have been using one of these red benders. I have used it so much that there are indentations in it from the resistor and capacitor bodies. I will try to remember to post an image of it. It is still going strong!

    Quoted from Thierry1765:

    Is it possible to buy a pcb system 11b

    I have these available at this time. Please use PM.

    Quoted from Tophervette:

    Hey how ya doing? Did you do your talk presentation at NW pinball faire?

    The talk at the Northwest Pinball Collective was recorded. I don't know what happened to it but given that a lot of the more involved collectors were busy with the Northwest Pinball and Arcade Show I am not surprised that nothing has been done or published. I did not talk at the show this year.

    Quoted from Tophervette:

    I am thinking of doing one of your 10 opto boards for my 1992 dr Who. Which is mounted horizontal and pre-Popeye :)I think.

    I have both versions of the 10-opto board. The original horizontal mount and the revised vertical mount.

    Quoted from Tophervette:

    How is your queue of work jobs. What is your backlog like?

    The work queue is long. I went over on the June work quota. I only did this because for some strange reason the June work quota is nothing but WPC-89 boards. 7x PWR, 2x CPU and 1x FLP. Building the same boards in a batch is much more efficient. Working (slowly) through these now. There always seem to be local interruptions (typically repair requests). I try to slip smaller boards in the available time between build phases of the bigger boards. A session for a phase may be three hours and if I don't have the three (contiguous) hours I fill the time doing something else. I don't like doing partial phases because I don't like leaving the water soluble flux on the board for any period of time. If you want one of these smaller boards just let me know. I am sure there will be gaps available.

    Quoted from Tophervette:

    What is your latest fun project?

    If only I had a fun project. I have some outstanding boards that I need to build and verify. The speaker pop eliminator is the highest priority (mentioned above). The next priority is the unified System 3-7 CPU board. At the same time I will also take care of the 6-digit and 7-digit numeric bench display. Also in this batch is the Speech Interface Verification board that ChrisHibler has been very patiently been waiting for. It probably works (simple board) so I should probably just send it. I don't have any time for these at the moment. There is also a possibility that September will be completely unavailable. Seems like the System 3-7 stuff may not be built or tested for a while.

    #804 1 year ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    It probably works (simple board) so I should probably just send it.

    @dumbass, ya buddy. I was testing a S9 board just the other day an thought about the board we've been discussing. Let 'er rip.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    https://www.youtube.com/c/ChrisHiblerPinball
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #805 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

    Excellent, so the EATON are actually Bussman then?
    great, so besides the specs, would an Eaton fuse looks exactly like the Bussman?

    Eaton owns bussman and bussman is their brand for those fuse lines.

    Sometimes fuses look different just as the manufacturering technologies change.

    #806 1 year ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    The next priority is the unified System 3-7 CPU board

    woohoo.

    Quoted from DumbAss:

    Seems like the System 3-7 stuff may not be built or tested for a while

    doh!

    Matt.

    #807 1 year ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    I have a revision for this. I have built one but I want to be sure about this by actually installing it in a machine.

    Looking forward to the results on this one!

    #808 1 year ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Eaton owns bussman and bussman is their brand for those fuse lines.
    Sometimes fuses look different just as the manufacturering technologies change.

    Is there any particular reason why bussman fuses are used in pinball? Is it just a purists thing?

    #809 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pin_Fandango:Is there any particular reason why bussman fuses are used in pinball? Is it just a purists thing?

    Glass 3AG sized fuses where commonly used back in the day and I think it is just tradition to keep on using them.

    They are technically I think a "3AG" sized fuse. Bussman is probably the most commonly found of the western brands (AGC = FAST, MDL = SLOW) but there are others like Bel Fuse, Littlefuse, and more.

    Just to throw it out there for people buying fuses.... the European/Asian 6mm x 30mm sized fuses are not the same as the pinball 3AG fuses. The 6x30 ones are dirt cheap on ebay and aliexpress. I find them in boards pretty often, but they are actually smaller than the 3AG type and may not fit right.

    #810 1 year ago

    Was great to briefly meet you DumbAss at PNW fest.

    Hope to do it again next year and talk shop.

    10
    #811 1 year ago

    Another game (MB) fully working thanks to DumbAss ! Lesson learned on this one and I wanted to post here in case any others build the WPC-95 Av board. Original problem was some odd artifacts on the DMD (customer could have lived with) but the sound part of the board would make some loud pops and then reset. Sometimes audio would not come back. After assembling the new board, DMD looked great, audio didn't reset, but had a very odd, for lack of a better word, "muffled" sound that was terrible at low volume but sounded better the higher the volume was. Lots and lots and lots of troubleshooting. Suspected the ADC. Had another AV board from the arcade, desoldered that chip and tried, didn't fix. I'm leaving out a tremendous part of the troubleshooting, but now the problem started existing in the other boards. Cut to the chase, that chip (AD1851) does NOT like to be in a socket. My first thought was that these chips were super sensitive to heat when being desoldered because of their age, but it was just being in a socket. Also affected 2 original Bally\Williams AV boards, removed socket and problem went away. You may not have the same experience, but I was losing sleep over this nonsense!!!

    mb1 (resized).jpgmb1 (resized).jpgmb2_LI (resized).jpgmb2_LI (resized).jpg

    #812 1 year ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    Seems like the System 3-7 stuff may not be built or tested for a while.

    I do want to get to this board. I'd like to be able to offer an alternative to any person who potentially needs this board. I also have a friend who loves the integrated Leon for basic board fundamentals verification. I just have to dig myself out of the lengthy build queue. The good news (I guess it's good) is that the local onsite repair technician who normally drops off boards for repair will be out for the month of July so I should be able to crank faster on the build queue. I also have an outstanding (not yet started) task to contact a potential local assembly company contact that I was given. That's also in my "to do" list.

    Quoted from pb456:

    Was great to briefly meet you DumbAss at PNW fest.
    Hope to do it again next year and talk shop.

    Likewise. Come back next year! I am sure I will be asked to help out again.

    Quoted from rccola777:

    Another game (MB) fully working thanks to DumbAss !

    Quoted from rccola777:

    Cut to the chase, that chip (AD1851) does NOT like to be in a socket.You may not have the same experience, but I was losing sleep over this nonsense!!!

    I have not had the same experience. For all the boards I have built I installed the AD1851 in a socket and it works fine.

    But ... I am glad you got everything working. It can be frustrating working through issues but once you've resolved them it's often a great feeling of accomplishment. For some people though it's enough to put them off doing anything similar in the future. I hope that is not the case with you.

    Back to other things ...

    Been busy trying to finish up some repairs I got in. They're all done and ready to go. Also working through putting together a kit for an LED DMD display for a very good local friend. I test ALL LED blocks before I install them onto a board. I have yet to find a bad block. Until now. Nothing hurts more than installing a brand new part (supposedly factory verified) that doesn't work and then having to de-solder it.

    Working:

    00_led_matrix_block_good.jpg00_led_matrix_block_good.jpg

    Not working:

    01_led_matrix_block_bad.jpg01_led_matrix_block_bad.jpg

    And here are the promised images of the well used lead bender. It's pretty obvious which lengths I use the most! It's still going strong.

    02_lead_bender_well_used.jpg02_lead_bender_well_used.jpg
    03_lead_bender_used.jpg03_lead_bender_used.jpg

    1 week later
    10
    #813 1 year ago

    Just finished building the redesigned 10 OPTO board for my Doctor Who pinball. I enjoyed making another board!

    DSCF3078 (resized).JPGDSCF3078 (resized).JPG
    #814 1 year ago
    Quoted from Tophervette:

    I appreciate your posts, inciteful information, helpful hints and the tested working boards that you make! I look forward to making my first board, to test my soldering skills. I bought the recommended solder too (Kester water soluble 026"). Thanks.
    [quoted image]

    Is water soluble flux also used or just what is in the wire itself?

    #815 1 year ago
    Quoted from Hangernade:

    Is water soluble flux also used or just what is in the wire itself?

    no need to add flux almost ever on a new board really, but if you do, then yes you should not be mixing 2 different types of flux.

    #816 1 year ago
    Quoted from Hangernade:

    Is water soluble flux also used or just what is in the wire itself?

    You would use 'resin cored flux' meaning the flux is contained inside the solder wire so no need for any additional flux.

    #817 1 year ago

    Solder with water-soluble flux in it is an excellent choice for a new pcb build. Washes clean in warm water instead of harsher solvent. There are only a few things you shouldn't get wet like a non sealed dip switch or non sealed relay.

    Just make sure that you clean it off. It will corrode the board over a long time if you don't remove it.

    #818 1 year ago

    Enjoyed reading your progress to date. Way out of my wheelhouse but glad people are still making these.

    1 week later
    #819 1 year ago

    There are a few things I would like to report but I have been kept busy with board building and unexpected local repairs. I will try to get some images of a new toy my (local) friend gave me. Working to finish up some select kits for the same friend to deliver at his July 4th party tomorrow and ran across this. First time for a problem on these 8x8 blocks although I don't use these blocks very much.

    led_block_8x8.jpgled_block_8x8.jpg

    In real life, the left failure is subtle whereas the right failure is obvious. Sometimes the camera doesn't capture things the same as your eye sees.

    #820 1 year ago

    Maybe the subtle block can be rotated and positioned where the "bad" LED is along the edge of the DMD where it would be least noticeable. Can be used in a seconds or test DMD I guess, unless you're getting rid of blocks with minor variations.

    #821 1 year ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    Maybe the subtle block can be rotated and positioned where the "bad" LED is along the edge of the DMD where it would be least noticeable.

    LED blocks have a pin 1 and an orientation.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    https://www.youtube.com/c/ChrisHiblerPinball
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #822 1 year ago

    You're right, I forgot about that.

    1 week later
    30
    #823 1 year ago

    Update.

    Been busy building boards and building boards. June was WPC-89 month. July is System 11 month. It's weird how boards seem to come in batches. August is another System 11 month with some System 9.

    Here is the new toy that my friend got me. It's an interesting machine. If a search is made for "lead bending tool" you get the plastic "triangle". If a search is made for "lead bending machine" you get these blue things. They are somewhat pricey and there's only a small number of merchants that actually have the machine in the US. They are HEAVY. Solidly built. All the other merchants are in China where the machines come from. Shipping is almost as expensive as the machine itself (due to the weight).

    This is the machine.

    01_lead_bending_machine.jpg01_lead_bending_machine.jpg

    It requires cut/tape (or reels). I loaded up a small amount. The amount is 69x 103K. This is the amount required for the System 9 CPU board.

    02_lead_bending_machine.jpg02_lead_bending_machine.jpg

    Turn the crank a bit and this is what comes out at the output end.

    03_lead_bending_machine.jpg03_lead_bending_machine.jpg

    This is what the belly of the machine looks like.

    04_lead_bending_machine.jpg04_lead_bending_machine.jpg

    Turn the crank some more. Keep it going.

    05_lead_bending_machine.jpg05_lead_bending_machine.jpg

    The output end of the machine.

    06_lead_bending_machine.jpg06_lead_bending_machine.jpg

    The whole cut/tape has been processed.

    07_lead_bending_machine.jpg07_lead_bending_machine.jpg

    This is what you get in the output tray.

    08_lead_bending_machine.jpg08_lead_bending_machine.jpg

    One batch complete. Another two to go. Load them up and turn the crank.

    09_lead_bending_machine.jpg09_lead_bending_machine.jpg

    15 seconds later you get this.

    10_lead_bening_machine.jpg10_lead_bening_machine.jpg

    So I got 3x batches of 103K capacitors for 3x System 9 CPU boards. All I need to do is put them in the board. The machine doesn't make soldering any faster though. A wave soldering machine will do that but we've discussed that before.

    I found that the best way for me to deal with this is NOT to do a whole bunch of cut/tape of the same value at the same time. If I did 500 of these capacitors then I would still need to count out 69 individual capacitors from the 500 and that takes time. So I've settled on cutting the required amount and keeping that as a template. Then the next time I need that amount for a board I just get the template and match it up to the reel and cut it off. Load up the machine and turn the crank. Exact number. No counting. No messing around. The reel keeps things organized until I need the required amount. For components that need only a small number (like less than 5) I crank a bunch of them and just count out the small number required from the output. I'll probably adjust things if need be to try to be more efficient.

    What took maybe hours or preparation (in front of the TV) now takes less than an hour to get everything ready. The machine is not easy to adjust and I've got this one correctly adjusted for 12.70mm. I decided to buy another two machines. One for 10.16mm and one for 15.24mm. Those are the other common pad spacing sizes used on the boards I make. Anything bigger (such as 20.32mm or 25.40mm) I will do by hand. Those sizes are not used often and if they are used the numbers are small (except the 6A4 on the power driver boards). I am still waiting for these other machines to arrive (they were shipped by sea but still cost a small fortune to ship).

    Also ... I revised this board and slipped building it in between some of the bigger boards. There is a small demand (pressure) for this so I wanted to make sure it at least works for 7-digit. I am unable to test 6-digit so I will be sending this out to another Pinside member for testing. If it works with 6-digit then there's a board heading to ChrisHibler when I get a chance.

    boards_243.jpgboards_243.jpg

    Note the System 11 Sound board underneath the foam. I got that verified working the other week. I took the board to a friend's place. He has an oscilloscope and that proved the digital and line level analog output was good. I suspected it was the amplifier but this was the proof. I had this board fabricated on 2020-01-12 so I have been sitting on it for 2-1/2 years. Having shown it was the amplifier I replaced the amplifiers and tried it again. I originally put eBay purchased TDA2002s as there was no reliable source at that time. These amplifiers caused one of the resistors to heat up really quickly (I used my thermal imaging device to see the heat). I replaced the TDA2002s with TDA2003s and it works. Now I need to give it a real machine test. I haven't gotten around to that yet.

    Finally ... I have a fabrication order that should (hopefully) arrive by the end of the week with a new reproduction request for someone local. It also contains a special surprise that I will build when I get some time to build and post it here when complete.

    #824 1 year ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    Update.
    Been busy building boards and building boards. June was WPC-89 month. July is System 11 month. It's weird how boards seem to come in batches. August is another System 11 month with some System 9.
    Here is the new toy that my friend got me. It's an interesting machine. If a search is made for "lead bending tool" you get the plastic "triangle". If a search is made for "lead bending machine" you get these blue things. They are somewhat pricey and there's only a small number of merchants that actually have the machine in the US. They are HEAVY. Solidly built. All the other merchants are in China where the machines come from. Shipping is almost as expensive as the machine itself (due to the weight).
    This is the machine.
    [quoted image]
    It requires cut/tape (or reels). I loaded up a small amount. The amount is 69x 103K. This is the amount required for the System 9 CPU board.
    [quoted image]
    Turn the crank a bit and this is what comes out at the output end.
    [quoted image]
    This is what the belly of the machine looks like.
    [quoted image]
    Turn the crank some more. Keep it going.
    [quoted image]
    The output end of the machine.
    [quoted image]
    The whole cut/tape has been processed.
    [quoted image]
    This is what you get in the output tray.
    [quoted image]
    One batch complete. Another two to go. Load them up and turn the crank.
    [quoted image]
    15 seconds later you get this.
    [quoted image]
    So I got 3x batches of 103K capacitors for 3x System 9 CPU boards. All I need to do is put them in the board. The machine doesn't make soldering any faster though. A wave soldering machine will do that but we've discussed that before.
    I found that the best way for me to deal with this is NOT to do a whole bunch of cut/tape of the same value at the same time. If I did 500 of these capacitors then I would still need to count out 69 individual capacitors from the 500 and that takes time. So I've settled on cutting the required amount and keeping that as a template. Then the next time I need that amount for a board I just get the template and match it up to the reel and cut it off. Load up the machine and turn the crank. Exact number. No counting. No messing around. The reel keeps things organized until I need the required amount. For components that need only a small number (like less than 5) I crank a bunch of them and just count out the small number required from the output. I'll probably adjust things if need be to try to be more efficient.
    What took maybe hours or preparation (in front of the TV) now takes less than an hour to get everything ready. The machine is not easy to adjust and I've got this one correctly adjusted for 12.70mm. I decided to buy another two machines. One for 10.16mm and one for 15.24mm. Those are the other common pad spacing sizes used on the boards I make. Anything bigger (such as 20.32mm or 25.40mm) I will do by hand. Those sizes are not used often and if they are used the numbers are small (except the 6A4 on the power driver boards). I am still waiting for these other machines to arrive (they were shipped by sea but still cost a small fortune to ship).
    Also ... I revised this board and slipped building it in between some of the bigger boards. There is a small demand (pressure) for this so I wanted to make sure it at least works for 7-digit. I am unable to test 6-digit so I will be sending this out to another Pinside member for testing. If it works with 6-digit then there's a board heading to ChrisHibler when I get a chance.
    [quoted image]
    Note the System 11 Sound board underneath the foam. I got that verified working the other week. I took the board to a friend's place. He has an oscilloscope and that proved the digital and line level analog output was good. I suspected it was the amplifier but this was the proof. I had this board fabricated on 2020-01-12 so I have been sitting on it for 2-1/2 years. Having shown it was the amplifier I replaced the amplifiers and tried it again. I originally put eBay purchased TDA2002s as there was no reliable source at that time. These amplifiers caused one of the resistors to heat up really quickly (I used my thermal imaging device to see the heat). I replaced the TDA2002s with TDA2003s and it works. Now I need to give it a real machine test. I haven't gotten around to that yet.
    Finally ... I have a fabrication order that should (hopefully) arrive by the end of the week with a new reproduction request for someone local. It also contains a special surprise that I will build when I get some time to build and post it here when complete.

    That looks like a great machine and even fun to operate it. Seems to save you a lot of precious time to be used for more important things than bending wires at hand

    #825 1 year ago

    Like putting your components through a cotton gin. Lol.

    #826 1 year ago

    Nice addition, Victor! You're products are wonderful and anything that helps with efficiency is awesome!

    #827 1 year ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    I found that the best way for me to deal with this is NOT to do a whole bunch of cut/tape of the same value at the same time. If I did 500 of these capacitors then I would still need to count out 69 individual capacitors from the 500 and that takes time.

    Have you tried weighing them on a scale? I think that's how others sometimes do it to avoid counting components individually.

    #828 1 year ago

    Dumbass - it looks like it’s possible to offset the cuts with that machine. I know it’s not much, but if you have one lead a sixteenth or eighth of an inch shorter than the other, it makes dropping in the component a lot quicker and easier. You line up one hole at a time instead of both at the same time.

    With as much as you do, this may help your speed.

    Bill C

    #829 1 year ago

    Victor - impressed with your new component folding machine. Always improving your process! Happy to report all my WPC boards from you are working GREAT. I just installed your 10 Opto board and it worked perfect of course. I finally got around to wiring up connectors for the 5 Opto mushroom target boards. I will install those next go round. I am so happy that you labeled colors on those boards, as I got dyslexic on wiring the big connector end. I was glad I had one of those push the pins out tool. I will probably need to build another set of those 5 Opto boards for my other game, if you have it still in stock.
    Cheers.

    #830 1 year ago

    Cool peace of gear. Now you need to rig up something to count them as it works. =D WPC optos counter or something from a slot machine coin counter

    When I did a lot more TH assembly I despised de-reeling resistors and caps enough I actually just paid a company in company in China to de-reel them and bag up by the 1000s. Could still get most 1/4w resistors around $4 for 1000pcs.

    If you are counting out kits. Reels can be nice because you can use measurements to count. When I did the LDB kit I had a board with spool on one end and markings for each resistor count. Pull them across the board to the length, cut. Still a PITA to do.

    Weight works too, but check each lot. I noticed the TO126 SCRs can vary in weight depending on brand and batch enough that the count might be off by one or two.

    #831 1 year ago

    I love that machine!
    I've never seen one although I imagine they were/are quite common in build houses.

    Love the System 3-9 test board too!
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    https://www.youtube.com/c/ChrisHiblerPinball
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #832 1 year ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Have you tried weighing them on a scale? I think that's how others sometimes do it to avoid counting components individually.

    I've tried doing that with .156 crimps and they're likely a bit heavier than the components he is working with. Would have to be a VERY delicate scale. Like the kind you measure gun powder with.

    Shawn

    #833 1 year ago

    @dumbass, I wanted to throw in to see about some Data East Jurassic Park interest. My project is missing these 2 T-Rex motor boards and I would love to make it complete.

    https://www.marcospecialties.com/control/keywordsearch?SEARCH_STRING=520-5066-00
    https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/520-5010-00

    #834 1 year ago

    Appreciate all the feedback and suggestions. I don't think of everything and more minds = better solutions.

    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Have you tried weighing them on a scale? I think that's how others sometimes do it to avoid counting components individually.

    The closest to a scale that I have are the bathroom kind that you stand on. I'm an old fart ... and a DumbAss. Separating the bunch into individuals is a task in and of itself but the previous big task was removing the cut/tape and manually bending each lead (both sides). Separating is much faster. Weighing would probably help but I think using the template works quite well. I just counted out some cut/tape for System 11 CPU boards and it was fairly quick to just match up the lengths on the reel.

    Quoted from Billc479:

    it looks like it’s possible to offset the cuts with that machine. I know it’s not much, but if you have one lead a sixteenth or eighth of an inch shorter than the other, it makes dropping in the component a lot quicker and easier. You line up one hole at a time instead of both at the same time.

    I had originally set the excess lead short and found that it was really hard to pick up the bent component to place in the board. So I increased the length of the excess lead. This results in the bend not being 90 degrees (often less - obtuse angle). I end up having to bend them a little bit by hand when placing in the board but it's MUCH easier to pick them up. The other disadvantage is that the components tend to stick together as the bent leads get tangled.

    Quoted from barakandl:

    Now you need to rig up something to count them as it works. =D WPC optos counter or something from a slot machine coin counter.

    The big box merchants use electronic counters for large quantities from reels. They also use weight for bulk components. I bought a bunch of bulk components but I've stopped using them in favor of the cut/tape reel. I only use the bulk for small quantities now.

    #835 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinballManiac40:

    I wanted to throw in to see about some Data East Jurassic Park interest. My project is missing these 2 T-Rex motor boards and I would love to make it complete.
    https://www.marcospecialties.com/control/keywordsearch?SEARCH_STRING=520-5066-00
    https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/520-5010-00

    Those two boards are relay boards. Their circuit and usage are documented in the manual but the manual does not document the schematic nor the pin numbers and connections. These boards are fairly easy to reproduce. I just need a sample of both to get dimensions and mounting hole sizes. I can use the traces to construct a schematic for layout. If you can source loaners for the boards I can reproduce them. It might be possible for me to source them locally but I don't know any local owners of DE JP.

    I just did this with a Diner lamp board for a local friend who was missing the lamp board behind the backboard (for E-A-T). Luckily the same board is used underneath the playfield so he sent me his playfield board and will get back the original and the reproduction.

    #836 1 year ago

    Yes, I did mean relay boards. Hope someone can lend you a set. I know someone with a JP, but I have to see if I can send them off. How long would you need them?

    #837 1 year ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    The closest to a scale that I have are the bathroom kind that you stand on.

    Well, there are probably plenty of cheap options on amazon that are small and can do ounces.

    Quoted from DumbAss:

    The other disadvantage is that the components tend to stick together as the bent leads get tangled.

    Is there space in the tray to add a short pyramid shape? That might help spread out the components a bit to prevent tangles. Maybe dents or ridges in the pyramid shape could help keep the parts separated.

    #838 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinballManiac40:

    Yes, I did mean relay boards. Hope someone can lend you a set. I know someone with a JP, but I have to see if I can send them off. How long would you need them?

    I don't know anyone locally with this machine. It might be possible to find someone locally (to Puget Sound) if you post a request to either the general Data East club thread or the DE JP club thread. Or there might be someone (else) who is willing to loan their boards.

    The boards won't take long to process. I would say allow up to one week but it will likely be only a day or two. The problem I have is to find the time to finish the task as quickly as possible (without task switching). If I am able to hold onto the board until I get the fabricated reproductions back I can visually inspect the original and the reproduction side-by-side for verification. I could also do this from images so there's no absolute need to hold the board longer than the minimum required to reproduce it.

    #839 1 year ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Is there space in the tray to add a short pyramid shape? That might help spread out the components a bit to prevent tangles. Maybe dents or ridges in the pyramid shape could help keep the parts separated.

    I just spread them out on a table top. It's not a big deal but when they clump together it can cause minor issues when counting.

    #840 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinballManiac40:

    I wanted to throw in to see about some Data East Jurassic Park interest. My project is missing these 2 T-Rex motor boards and I would love to make it complete.

    PinballManiac40

    There's a lot of different relay boards out there, some I'm still finding. I do not have the 5066, but already have it in the works, but I do have the 520-5010

    BD-520-5009-10-00 (resized).jpgBD-520-5009-10-00 (resized).jpg
    #841 1 year ago

    @dumbass, thank you for your responses. I didn't realize Big Daddy already had one. Looks like some time saved toward assembling another bad ass system 11 MPU board of yours.

    @toddsvec, thank you for letting us know.

    #842 1 year ago

    For the WMS playfield GI relays. Beware I tried like four different relay brand and packages and none had a spring strong enough like the original guardian electric ones to keep the NC contact closed on strong vibrations. Dr Dude was my test but Omron ice cube relays and a few different relay types all made the GI blink when there was a shock like a pop bumper going off near where the board was mounted. I gave up after like the 4th different relay I tried. Maybe there is some kind of shock absorbing mounting that could be used. Put an original orange color guardian electric relay WMS used on on my replacement board and it worked fine.

    #843 1 year ago
    Quoted from barakandl:

    For the WMS playfield GI relays. Beware I tried like four different relay brand and packages and none had a spring strong enough like the original guardian electric ones to keep the NC contact closed on strong vibrations. Dr Dude was my test but Omron ice cube relays and a few different relay types all made the GI blink when there was a shock like a pop bumper going off near where the board was mounted. I gave up after like the 4th different relay I tried. Maybe there is some kind of shock absorbing mounting that could be used. Put an original orange color guardian electric relay WMS used on on my replacement board and it worked fine.

    Can you pop off the casing on the orange one, or is it completely sealed? I can't say that I've ever looked too closely at those.

    #844 1 year ago
    Quoted from barakandl:

    For the WMS playfield GI relays. Beware I tried like four different relay brand and packages and none had a spring strong enough like the original guardian electric ones to keep the NC contact closed on strong vibrations.

    Which relay board? So far, I have not had any complaints but I don't know what games mine are going in. I have a Dr. Dude, so I'd like to try it exactly as you're stating with my board.

    #845 1 year ago
    Quoted from toddsvec:

    Which relay board? So far, I have not had any complaints but I don't know what games mine are going in. I have a Dr. Dude, so I'd like to try it exactly as you're stating with my board.

    I'm sorry i wasn't clear, it was one I spun up, I have not tried yours. 24v GI relay C-11998. What relay part number did you use? I tried the OMROM LY2 series and another brand of ice cube relay that escapes, I think I got from GPE and they both had NC side contact bounce when solenoid nearby goes off. Same issue a couple brands of the 2 form C type relays. Finally desoldered an original orange guardian electric one and put it on my board which worked fine and that is what is in there now. Not being able to find a suitable relay or a way to shock absorb I just abandoned it.
    20220714_225858 (resized).jpg20220714_225858 (resized).jpg

    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Can you pop off the casing on the orange one, or is it completely sealed? I can't say that I've ever looked too closely at those.

    I think they are glued shut. They don't have little tabs like the ice cube relays.

    I tried looking at the datasheets and they do list vibration stats, but each brand tested different things and it is hard to quantify how much the game is shaking. Dr Dude may be a worse offender than others just by where they put the relay, I think it was right under the pop bumpers or sling, can't remember now. I could just be being anal about the flickering from the contact bounce, it wasn't bad, worse with LEDs.

    #846 1 year ago
    Quoted from barakandl:

    or a way to shock absorb I just abandoned it.

    Rubber grommets in the PCB?

    #847 1 year ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Rubber grommets in the PCB?

    I have had success with mounting minipost rubber bumpers under
    the brackets...They make great cheap shock absorbers.

    #848 1 year ago

    Can someone start a new thread for the relay boards now it is off topic from these badass dumbass boards? Thank you.

    11
    #849 1 year ago

    Thanks Victor! As always, the work is top notch. These are for an incoming TAF.

    B574560F-3D95-4B9D-A1C1-F30A44DF4010 (resized).jpegB574560F-3D95-4B9D-A1C1-F30A44DF4010 (resized).jpeg
    #850 1 year ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    Those two boards are relay boards. Their circuit and usage are documented in the manual but the manual does not document the schematic nor the pin numbers and connections. These boards are fairly easy to reproduce. I just need a sample of both to get dimensions and mounting hole sizes. I can use the traces to construct a schematic for layout. If you can source loaners for the boards I can reproduce them. It might be possible for me to source them locally but I don't know any local owners of DE JP.
    I just did this with a Diner lamp board for a local friend who was missing the lamp board behind the backboard (for E-A-T). Luckily the same board is used underneath the playfield so he sent me his playfield board and will get back the original and the reproduction.

    I have my JP setup at home and could get you whatever you need off it Victor.

    There are 1,564 posts in this topic. You are on page 17 of 32.

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