Sorry if this has already been answered, but where would one get the processors and EPROMS since it says in the OP that they are not included? Just curious in case I need a board like this in the future!
Or am I just reading it wrong that these boards don't need processors or EPROMS?
Quoted from HydrogenHuman:Sorry if this has already been answered, but where would one get the processors and EPROMS since it says in the OP that they are not included? Just curious in case I need a board like this in the future!
Or am I just reading it wrong that these boards don't need processors or EPROMS?
Usually (with almost all aftermarket boards like this - MPU etc) you can simply re-use the processor and RAM from your old board.
EPROMS are 'game specific' so you would need EPROMS programmed with the correct files for the intended game.
Quoted from pins4u:Usually (with almost all aftermarket boards like this - MPU etc) you can simply re-use the processor and RAM from your old board.
EPROMS are 'game specific' so you would need EPROMS programmed with the correct files for the intended game.
Let's say you had a machine that was missing a board then, can you buy a programmed EPROM and processor?
Quoted from HydrogenHuman:Let's say you had a machine that was missing a board then, can you buy a programmed EPROM and processor?
The processor doesn't need programming - it is the same so you could buy one now and install it in the board. Same with the RAM.
But, for the EPROM, you would need to know exactly which game the board is destined for and then, yes, you could order an EPROM for that machine from numerous suppliers.
Quoted from Clfreemn22:Great job on my new board for my High Speed!
Thank you!
[quoted image]
Nice! I can't wait to get mine. It is on the way! I was going to use it in my Police Force but now I have a Mousin' Around in the works that has a Rottendog board that I think I want to replace. Maybe I need another one from Dumbass.....I'm going to need a second job. LOL
Chris
Quoted from HydrogenHuman:Sorry if this has already been answered, but where would one get the processors and EPROMS since it says in the OP that they are not included? Just curious in case I need a board like this in the future!
Or am I just reading it wrong that these boards don't need processors or EPROMS?
I got my eprom from ksarcade.
Quoted from Tophervette:I got my eprom from ksarcade.
And what about processors? Can those be bought from Great Plains Electronics and similar stores?
I have a few processors, recently bought like 6 off a website in Australia-I believe it was cant remember.
I believe The usual pinball parts resellers sells them too but a little google fu might provide a better price.
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:Looks like I am missing L1, forgot to order one and then install all the chips.
Other than that, done!
Looks awesome.
Can’t thank Victor enough for all the help throughout my first board.
Protect Victor at all costs!
Hey that looks great!!! I don't think I will ever attempt that. But I am getting good at crimping trifurcons and Molex connectors. LOL
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:Looks like I am missing L1, forgot to order one and then install all the chips.
Pin_Fandango L1?
Where does L1 go on the board?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
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Quoted from ChrisHibler:Pin_Fandango L1?
Where does L1 go on the board?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info
right underneath, towards the left of the 5v regulator.
Got a few things pending but want to finish up some boards before spending some time posting. I have also been busy helping/fixing a local collector's Funhouse. Went to his place twice and met up an additional third time.
I wanted to provide the information below on a more immediate time frame.
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:... install all the chips.
Other than that, done!
Don't forget the fuses as well!
One small but subtle thing that may give you some grief. You need to remove the key pins of the headers. I have a reference document that provides a tip but it is, of course, buried in wads and wads of text.
Quoted from ChrisHibler:L1?
Where does L1 go on the board?
This is part of the revised digital logic regulator circuit. As you know the OEM board uses the LM323K linear regulator that can be replaced with the EZSBC switching regulator. I did not want to be dependent on EZSBC so I changed the regulator circuit to use LM2678 (fixed or adjustable) and that requires the use of an inductor. Generates / dissipates a LOT less heat than a linear regulator. It also possible to use alternate regulators with a daughter board. I have used the LM350 (really bad idea), LM2576 (works just fine) and MC34167 (works great but is expensive).
Quoted from DumbAss:Got a few things pending but want to finish up some boards before spending some time posting. I have also been busy helping/fixing a local collector's Funhouse. Went to his place twice and met up an additional third time.
I wanted to provide the information below on a more immediate time frame.Don't forget the fuses as well!
One small but subtle thing that may give you some grief. You need to remove the key pins of the headers. I have a reference document that provides a tip but it is, of course, buried in wads and wads of text.
[quoted image]This is part of the revised digital logic regulator circuit. As you know the OEM board uses the LM323K linear regulator that can be replaced with the EZSBC switching regulator. I did not want to be dependent on EZSBC so I changed the regulator circuit to use LM2678 (fixed or adjustable) and that requires the use of an inductor. Generates / dissipates a LOT less heat than a linear regulator. It also possible to use alternate regulators with a daughter board. I have used the LM350 (really bad idea), LM2576 (works just fine) and MC34167 (works great but is expensive).
yes fuses, where is a good source for that brand? I bought my fuses when I order pinball parts from these online shops and have not been able to find the same fuses on other places such as digikey for example. That said, I have not been looking for a while.
Thanks for pointing out the connectors, I 100% forgot about this or would have done it before installing them. The outside edge connectors were easy to deal with and just clipped the legs, the ones on the inside, were a bit more work but still very easy with the Hakko desolder gun, I then pulled the pins off with a small plier (they came out clean and quite easy to my surprise), the hakko sucker saved me a few times already! Great tool to have for this job, I recommend 200%
Pin_Fandango I would guess that vendors like Marco have a "kit".
But I prefer to buy mine from PinballLife or Great Plains Electronics. I buy a LOT of them so I don't deal with onesey-twosey.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info
When Radio Shack was closing their doors I took advantage of the fact that I travel all over Florida for business. I went to at least 15 stores over the last few weeks of its existence. In every store there was always a box or two stuffed FULL of electric parts, diodes, fuses, electrical grease, fish paper, caps, etc. etc. I came home with hundreds of fuses in over a dozen sizes. Still using them to this day, was a great find!
Still in the middle of trying to finish my current board build batch.
However ... when the board package arrives it's like Christmas. I would normally consider taking the interrupt and start assessing these boards but I have so many boards that have yet to have an initial build and test or revisions that need an initial build and test that I have to finish the current batch first before I get lost in these. This is just a teaser. I will probably elaborate more as I work through them. A lot of opto stuff in this group. I will probably get stuck into these sooner rather than later because small boards are easier to finish and declare ready.
And there's also:
I have to get my "to do" list down to a size that can be more easily managed. I guess it would help by not constantly adding to it.
What will you be discussing at the Northwest Pinball Collective?
Will the talk be recorded?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info
I have been officially teased.
I wish I was on the Northwest Coast to hear this Victor Talk about Pinball Electronics. Would it be like a TED talk? Will it be recorded for YOUTUBE?
One of the boards said Probe. I am beginning to hate that word, as I scheduled to be probed again by the gastroenterologist.
Quoted from ChrisHibler:What will you be discussing at the Northwest Pinball Collective?
It's a general talk about diagnostics, troubleshooting and bench testing. It may also include board building (I understand a potential attendee wants some information on this). Ultimately it will likely be whatever the attendees want. It's not a fixed agenda.
Quoted from ChrisHibler:Will the talk be recorded?
It has been requested. There's no presentation equipment so it will just be a talking head which probably won't be too interesting. I'm not sure if the camera will be static or will be capturing any potential tabletop demonstrations.
Quoted from Tophervette:Would it be like a TED talk? Will it be recorded for YOUTUBE?
I have never been to the collective and I don't know what their facilities are like but I suspect it might be a raised platform (if that) and a bunch of people in chairs. To demonstrate anything it might be gathering around a table. I don't know. I know the available space is limited so that works in favor of a small crowd gathering around to better see things.
Quoted from Tophervette:One of the boards said Probe. I am beginning to hate that word, as I scheduled to be probed again by the gastroenterologist.
I hope you don't feel like Eric Cartman.
The board is an experiment. There seems to be a few people who have issues with opto transmitter and receiver pairs and the ability to differentiate between them. The opto boards I have allow differentiation between the opto pair and the switch matrix circuitry but it has no way to differentiate the transmitter and receiver. The transmitter returns are all tied to ground. This system allows building a dedicated transmitter probe and receiver probe to help separate the two components of the pair. This is the full resolution of the image above. I will try to get some good images demonstrating its use.
I do want to get the opto boards tested - both the Doctor Who MPF opto boards and this test system. They should be quick and easy to verify.
I'm liking the look of the Verification Speech Board!
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info
Quoted from ChrisHibler:I'm liking the look of the Verification Speech Board!
I completed the big boards that I wanted to complete (they need population and verification) but I will turn my attention to some of the boards above (including the verification board for you). I still have outstanding boards (that weren't promised until June so I have some time to keep my sanity) and I still want to work on the revision of the System 3-7 board that arrived a few weeks ago but has been put on the back-burner due to promised board time frames.
I did a quick test fit of the Doctor Who MPF boards and they look good. I forgot about the fish paper and if you want to use the fish paper it will need to be cut the slide the header through. Of course, the original direct soldered wires is always the fall back but the header looks like it will work and because a housing is used the fish paper probably isn't necessary because its purpose is to prevent accidental contact of the bare soldered wires. I will cross post this to the Doctor Who thread for those that don't read this thread.
Clearance in one axis.
Clearance in another axis.
Thanks for the update info on the Probe board.
The Opto boards look great!
The Opto carrier board has seen better days. I see how warped/bent it is, so that the beams of light do not point straight across. But maybe they are more like a flashlight than a laser beam, I don't know.
I thought the fish paper was to prevent stray light from entering the carrier board. Especially on the ends and the open side. I know that those 2 bulbs on the MPF put out a lot of light, and even more so when people put LEDs in them. That is why the new swinks carrier has separate chambers for each Opto pair. Info I have picked up from the Dr Who experts.
Quoted from Tophervette:I see how warped/bent it is, so that the beams of light do not point straight across. But maybe they are more like a flashlight than a laser beam, I don't know.
Having never seen another MPF this is my only experience. I think the warped nature of the opto carrier will probably work fine given the tolerance in the viewing and reception angle. The final test is putting in a machine and seeing what happens.
LEDs are directional but the light can be diffused. It depends on the dome (if one is present) as to how the light is diffused. They are not pinpoint like a laser.
Quoted from Tophervette:I thought the fish paper was to prevent stray light from entering the carrier board. Especially on the ends and the open side. I know that those 2 bulbs on the MPF put out a lot of light, and even more so when people put LEDs in them. That is why the new swinks carrier has separate chambers for each Opto pair. Info I have picked up from the Dr Who experts.
You're correct. When I see fish paper I usually think electrical shorts from exposed wires accidentally touching exposed metal surfaces but in this case it is probably both. The original mold used for the carrier could have had the sides to stop stray light and it's weird why it doesn't but then again the mold was probably made and they said "good enough - we'll fix it with fish paper". I will run as many tests as I can before releasing to you to run your tests and we'll see how it goes. I have to build one first though.
The channel having those angles will affect your test results - the channel should be dead straight and square as that is how they were originally. I helped the guys in the Dr Who thread with a upgraded channel which has the chambers which is also bracing to keep the bracket square.
Screen Shot 2022-04-24 at 6.13.51 am (resized).pngScreen Shot 2022-04-24 at 6.14.03 am (resized).pngDumbAss, I want to add my name to the long list of people who are impressed with the quality and volume of work you get through, quite amazing. Thanks.
I look forward to your system 3-7 board as I find sys7 boards harder to work on, they have relatively narrow tracks that seem very prone to damage and lifting. Eliminating the interconnect will also be appreciated by many. Great work, thanks again.
Did some verification and testing. Results are below.
Last night I tested the Twilight Zone custom 10-opto board on the bench. Everything registers correctly. The board has builtin support for the 3rd magnet. If your original board works then you really don't need this board unless you want to upgrade as it has diagnostic LEDs. Otherwise the piggyback 3rd magnet board is cheaper and works just as well. This new board does dissipate less heat (everything is reduced to +5V) and the 3rd magnet support connector is identical to the piggyback board for compatibility. It took me a while to get to this as I had to build the wiring cables to do the verification.
Tonight I did some machine testing. The Doctor Who MPF opto boards work. Unfortunately one of the wires to the motor fell off so I couldn't run the MPF test but I connected the opto connector in the bottom of the cabinet and ran the switch test. It all works correctly - i.e. the switches register correctly. The warped carrier did pose a problem in that the clip holding the mushroom button was blocked by the receiver opto. I had to shim the board to generate clearance but it does work - even in the warped carrier. Unfortunately no images because ... well ... it's switch test and it's not that interesting.
Then I used the Doctor Who to test (and demonstrate) the opto probe and control board. I didn't have power cabling so I just used alligator clips to get power. The control board shows status. The transmitter LED is on indicating that there is a path to ground for the transmitter and it should be transmitting IR light. The receiver LED on the control board illuminates when IR light falls onto the receiver.
What the boards do (to aid in diagnostics) and how to use them.
Then I tested my System 11 power supply and System 11 Sound Overlay boards. The sound overlay board works and the small power supply was a verification. I tested the big power supply board. Got some weird results. In Rollergames (where I had tested it previously) it produced hum. I was hesitant to try it in the Whirlwind - expecting it to produce the same hum. There was NO hum. I am at a loss but I can only conclude that it is somehow machine dependent. I have a Police Force so I guess I'll try the different boards in that machine and see if I can see some pattern. I might also try isolating the ground connections of the sound board in the Rollergames and see if the ground loop originates on the sound board rather than the power supply board. That's for another day.
Got my answers to some of these recently arrived boards so it's back to buidling, verifying and packing.
Shout out to Victor with his new boards I populated with my own two hands. I admit I had to overcome a learning curve that the short lead on the LEDs (Cathode) is matched up with the flat spot on the circle on the board. I built Transmitter and Receiver Probes, 5 LED OPTO boards for my Dr Who MPF, a power tap, and a one bulb PCB. Cannot wait to test them out but need to wire up some plug wires first.
DSCF2845 (resized).JPGDSCF2843 (resized).JPGDSCF2847 (resized).JPGDSCF2849 (resized).JPGDSCF2855 (resized).JPGDSCF2851 (resized).JPGQuoted from Tophervette:Shout out to Victor with his new boards I populated with my own two hands. I admit I had to overcome a learning curve that the short lead on the LEDs (Cathode) is matched up with the flat spot on the circle on the board. I built Transmitter and Receiver Probes, 5 LED OPTO boards for my Dr Who MPF, a power tap, and a one bulb PCB. Cannot wait to test them out but need to wire up some plug wires first.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Nice job, Soldering skills are improving. I see some quality work on those boards.
Quoted from DumbAss:WPC-89 pre-DCS Speaker Protection Boards. This one was a little adventure. The issue that is trying to be solved (silenced) is a documented issue. There's a "pop" when you turn the machine on. It is also possible to hear multiple little clicks during software start. These clicks are continual resets of the sound board. The biggest "pop" on my machine is when the power is cut. I got the power on pop silenced but I had to go back and figure out how to get the power off pop silenced. On the third try I got it.
[quoted image]
The system is a three board system. One satellite board to intercept the speak signals. Another satellite board to intercept the AC power. The main board that has the relay and handles the intercepted signals. Only two cables are required. I wanted to build the system using this modular approach to allow for DCS boards to be supported as well. Still (officially) a work-in-progress. I'm not sure I'm ready to declare this "final" and ready for consumption. Needs a little more stress testing and exposure.The two red boards were my first attempt - assuming I would get it right the first time. Arrogance at its finest. Obviously I was wrong. I hacked (cut and jumpered) this board significantly before making a second attempt. I changed the signal interception methods which is why the second attempt is vastly different.
The top green (bare) board was the second attempt. It includes the use of an AC photocoupler but doesn't quite work properly. The other two satellite boards work properly so they remain the same.
The center and lower relay board are the third attempt. It changes the AC photocoupler circuit and how the relay is energized. With a 100uF capacitor the delay is about one second at power on. I'm going to experiment a little more to see if I can make the delay a little longer.[quoted image]
This the third (current) system as connected.
[quoted image]
And in the machine.I have board building to go back to, a few boards in my repair queue and some boards waiting for packing / shipping. The work queue never seems to end. The progress / distraction above does help me keep my sanity (for a bit). Finally ... I do have a small surprise coming in the next few weeks. That's all that I will say about this at the moment.
Ready to install the three board set, but my Corvette pin has a different setup than the installed picture you show. Since I want to be sure and install correctly, can you tell me where to plug in each board on my setup?
Thanks
IMG_20220504_091417 (resized).jpgQuoted from highspeed:Ready to install the three board set, but my Corvette pin has a different setup than the installed picture you show. Since I want to be sure and install correctly, can you tell me where to plug in each board on my setup?
This should help. If it is still unclear let me know.
Quoted from DumbAss:This should help. If it is still unclear let me know.
[quoted image]
The relay board will not fit due to connector directly to the left of it.
IMG_20220504_095214 (resized).jpgQuoted from Pin_Fandango:I order pinball parts from these online shops and have not been able to find the same fuses on other places such as digikey for example
digikey is nice and easy for fuses... affordable too without buying other stuff you don't need. The key is understanding the basic terms so you can operate the filters effectively.
The 'standard' fuses we see in pinball are 3AG glass cartridge fuses.. then decide if fast or slow blow and the amp rating needed. Voltage is less important, but the 250V is the most common.
Example - this is a standard 1/2 Amp fuse description:
500 mA 250V AC DC Fuse Cartridge, Glass Holder 3AB, 3AG, 1/4" x 1-1/4"
Eaton is the manufacturer for the Bussman brand.
Example:
Untitled (resized).png
Hope that helps
Quoted from flynnibus:digikey is nice and easy for fuses... affordable too without buying other stuff you don't need. The key is understanding the basic terms so you can operate the filters effectively.
The 'standard' fuses we see in pinball are 3AG glass cartridge fuses.. then decide if fast or slow blow and the amp rating needed. Voltage is less important, but the 250V is the most common.
Example - this is a standard 1/2 Amp fuse description:
500 mA 250V AC DC Fuse Cartridge, Glass Holder 3AB, 3AG, 1/4" x 1-1/4"
Eaton is the manufacturer for the Bussman brand.
Example:
[quoted image]
Hope that helps
Excellent, so the EATON are actually Bussman then?
great, so besides the specs, would an Eaton fuse looks exactly like the Bussman?
Only ask because I dislike using fuses that do not look like the ones originally used - if that makes sense - It is my OCD I guess, not sure, I have fuses that match the specs needed but they do not look the same and that bothers me, the filament inside is different the the Bussmas equivalent even though the specs match exactly of course.
I order stuff from digikey often and I have to order other things now so I will use the opportunity to get fuses, but only if these look identical to the Bussman...
Just wanted to clarify and thanks again!
Quoted from highspeed:The relay board will not fit due to connector directly to the left of it.[quoted image]
Hmmm. Let me take a look at a machine and see. It does look like you're correct. The DCS board is bigger ("wider") than the pre-DCS board so this is going to be a physical (fit) issue rather than an electrical (design) issue. Please give me some time (I have a few things going on at the moment) and I will get back to you.
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:I order stuff from digikey often and I have to order other things now so I will use the opportunity to get fuses, but only if these look identical to the Bussman...
Why not just replace all of the fuses with Eaton, that way you can avoid the more expensive Bussman in the future.
Quoted from highspeed:The relay board will not fit due to connector directly to the left of it.
Quoted from DumbAss:It does look like you're correct. The DCS board is bigger ("wider") than the pre-DCS board so this is going to be a physical (fit) issue rather than an electrical (design) issue.
It does indeed not fit. I will have to revise the board and shift the power connector to make it fit. Apologies for this. I will follow up with you (offline = PM) to get this resolved.
Quoted from DumbAss:It does indeed not fit. I will have to revise the board and shift the power connector to make it fit. Apologies for this. I will follow up with you (offline = PM) to get this resolved.
Thanks!
Been working on getting some of Victors boards put together. The test rig is super nice! I need to tighten up the wiring and move to a more suitable location.
Few parts left for my Pinbot MPU. Really just waiting for the relay and chips. Chips will be here any day... next round I will have to get a lead bender to up my game. . Thanks Victor!
1856D131-FD54-498B-9205-64696DC5A06F (resized).jpeg998C12D4-DD4A-4BAA-B15F-2B8D05796E6D (resized).jpegI found a pack of 4 lead benders on Amazon for about $14 which covers practically anything you will ever need to bend in your life time. Made some pencil marks on the most common size I used so my eyes didn't have to search, made bending my leads much faster.
This is the lead bender I prefer.
I don't really like the red "triangular" benders. It's all about speed and picking the right slot.
https://www.amazon.com/CANADUINO-Bending-Resistor-Forming-300-700/dp/B089NZVB7S/ref=sr_1_10
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
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