(Topic ID: 242158)

DumbAss test and reproduction PCBs

By DumbAss

4 years ago


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    #701 2 years ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    Most things I have read say that de-ionized or distilled water is required. Regular water contains minerals dissolved as ions. It is the ions that conduct the electrons (current). At least that is what I learned in chemistry class decades ago. The ions exist in solution (require the solvent). If the solvent is not present the ions should crystallize into salts. That's my high school level understanding of the theory (physics and chemistry).
    I use a surfactant and plain water to clean the board. I use a scrub brush to help dissolve the flux left on the board and then give it a good rinse. If you have a compressor you could blow the remaining water off the board but I just put the board in front of an HVAC register and run the furnace. That helps to dry out the board quicker and provides air flow. In summer I leave it outside for the water to evaporate naturally. This is part of the reason why it takes a few days to build out these boards. They are done in phases. They are washed and dried between phases.

    I don't think the is anything special. I just use the solder. My station temperature is set to 650F. The water soluble flux in the solder core allows the solder to flow and be cleaned up with water.
    I'm no expert nor any definitive authority on any of this. I am sure there are people with much more experience and knowledge than me that can correct anything that has been incorrectly stated.

    You got me at surfactant, what or which one would you recommend?

    #702 2 years ago
    Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

    You got me at surfactant, what or which one would you recommend?

    A surfactant is essentially a detergent. Pick your favorite cleaner. Nothing harsh is required. I use Simple Green. You can probably get away without using a surfactant.

    #703 2 years ago

    Victor, Ill use fuse clips, just wasn't sure how the word was set up to accept the part.

    If all I need is a 0 ohm resistor, and not the 470 ohm 1/4 watt resistor, if I use the fixed output regulator((LM2678T-5.0/NOPB), then Ill go that route! Thanks!!

    Ill hunt for the inductor a little more. If I fail at landing one, Ill email you. Thanks Victor!

    #704 2 years ago
    Quoted from ibis:

    Ill use fuse clips, just wasn't sure how the word was set up to accept the part.

    This is what clips will look like.

    boards_216.jpgboards_216.jpg

    Quoted from ibis:

    If all I need is a 0 ohm resistor, and not the 470 ohm 1/4 watt resistor, if I use the fixed output regulator((LM2678T-5.0/NOPB), then Ill go that route!

    The resistors required for adjustable are R1 and R2. Both need to be 1% to produce more tolerant voltage output. When used with a fixed output only R2 needs to be installed. The silkscreen values on the left are the adjustable values and the right are the fixed values.

    boards_217.jpgboards_217.jpg

    Quoted from ibis:

    Ill hunt for the inductor a little more.

    The spacing between the leads is 7.5mm (7.62mm). You can always bend leads but if there is a component you find that is compatible look for lead spacing that reduces the amount of lead bending.

    #705 2 years ago
    Quoted from ibis:

    Victor, Ill use fuse clips, just wasn't sure how the word was set up to accept the part.
    If all I need is a 0 ohm resistor, and not the 470 ohm 1/4 watt resistor, if I use the fixed output regulator((LM2678T-5.0/NOPB), then Ill go that route! Thanks!!
    Ill hunt for the inductor a little more. If I fail at landing one, Ill email you. Thanks Victor!

    Hey Ibis
    PSPA has the original inductor that Williams used. https://www.pinballspareparts.com.au/5551-09822-00.html
    Wally

    #706 2 years ago

    When assembling a brand new circuit board use the water soluble stuff. Trust me on this one... Once you run a board under warm water and a little toothbrush action they come out beautiful and clean with no solvents you will be sold on it.

    The catch is you must wash it off. If you leave the flux on the board after a few months it will start corroding.

    I personally do not like the "no clean" stuff. It looks like hell left on the board and is actually harder to clean up. I don't think the flux is as good as the water soluble or rosin based ones either. I use rosin core for soldering on the playfield and doing rework on old boards. Water soluble on new stuff.

    https://gokimco.com/products/kester-24-6337-6403-sn63-pb37-331-water-soluble-031-diameter-66-core-1-lb?variant=31347667271732

    technically those fuse clips from tayda are for 6x30mm fuses. It's close enough for 6.3x32mm AGC/MDL fuses, but check out...

    https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Fuse-Holders_Shenzhen-lanson-Elec-LS-601_C182321.html

    18
    #707 2 years ago

    Got these boards finished on Friday and verified on Saturday. Most are now in the mail system.

    boards_218.jpgboards_218.jpgboards_219.jpgboards_219.jpg

    Got this board built in between packing of those boards. Or is it the other way around (i.e. pack boards in between building this board)?

    boards_220.jpgboards_220.jpg

    I built a concatenated single ROM (on board support) as well as a concatenated multiple ROM (select daughter board) and wrote them to EPROMs. The ROM select daughter board is built. Nothing has been powered on. I need to figure out how I want to test this. I haven't done that yet. I will probably pull out my Siegecraft boards for the solenoids and build small, quick cables for the lamps and switches. The universal numeric should work for the 7-digit albeit with the known error and I guess I'll see how the 6-digit works out (I know there will be an error with it).

    The following phases must pass before everything is declared good.

    1. Bench verification of solenoids, switches, lamps and display - i.e. digital logic, inputs and outputs.
    2. DIP switch input for System 3. I have no idea how this works so I will have to figure it out.
    3. Cabinet fit (mounting and cable to header connections/locations) for one of each System 3, 4, 6 and 7 backbox configurations.
    4. Actual play testing in a machine.

    I can throw it open to those who are adventurous once I complete step 1. That's the most critical phase as far as base functionality goes.

    I have no estimate for when I will complete step 1 but after spending weeks of almost non-stop building of big boards a few days break from that is refreshing. It also works out well as I wait for some components to come in that I am running short of for the current batch of big boards. I will probably work on the verification plan when I need a break from building.

    The next batch up is three 11s and one 9. See you in about two weeks.

    #708 2 years ago

    I'd volunteer my Firepower to test for system 7, but its currently in pieces. (yes, my FP runs system 7 boards)

    #710 2 years ago

    I will volunteer my Gorgar and BK. Can also test on firepower,laser ball.
    Mike

    #711 2 years ago

    Thank You Victor~!!!

    The CPU and Flip Boards look gorgeous.

    I will update you on my making of the build-a-board, once I get brave enough to tackle it.

    Huzzah.

    #712 2 years ago

    I got my new solder wire, water solluble…

    I regret not getting this sooner!!!
    So much better it is not even funny

    #713 2 years ago

    Well fellow Pinsiders, I attempted for my first soldering an easy WPC89 Coin Door board from @dumbass. 7 small Diodes and 5 connectors. 70 total solder connections and it took me 2 hours. My hat is off to y'all who do the big boards, including Victor! The concentration, the leaning over, the whiffs of burnt flesh and flux. Some may look at my pictures and say "hey, you aren't done." But for my WPC89 Flip II game, it does not use the other parts printed on the board. My manual says that I don't use J4 and J5 or D7. But I was having such fun, that I added J5 and D7 anyway. LOL.

    Most of you know already what I am telling... Double check that the part is in the right location, which is easy with these boards. It is printed there and which direction the Diodes go and where the key is on the connector. Waiting for iron to heat up. Being impatient and thinking the Weller soldering iron was not working, I cranked it up to 5. Even then, touching the pointy tip to the pin and the pad, there was a significant wait. Like count to 30. Then finally the water-soluble Kester solder would melt to the pin and pad. Push the solder in to make a nice puddle. Not too much, but a nice tent structure. Why are my fingers burning? Back them up to the foam pad on the iron. Onto the next one. What an experience! I made something with my own hands. It might even work. Testing tomorrow. Good Night. 11:20Pm.

    DSCF2738 (resized).JPGDSCF2738 (resized).JPGDSCF2739 (resized).JPGDSCF2739 (resized).JPGDSCF2740 (resized).JPGDSCF2740 (resized).JPGDSCF2743 (resized).JPGDSCF2743 (resized).JPG
    #714 2 years ago
    Quoted from Tophervette:

    Well fellow Pinsiders, I attempted for my first soldering an easy WPC89 Coin Door board from DumbAss. 7 small Diodes and 5 connectors. 70 total solder connections and it took me 2 hours. My hat is off to y'all who do the big boards, including Victor! The concentration, the leaning over, the whiffs of burnt flesh and flux. Some may look at my pictures and say "hey, you aren't done." But for my WPC89 Flip II game, it does not use the other parts printed on the board. My manual says that I don't use J4 and J5 or D7. But I was having such fun, that I added J5 and D7 anyway. LOL.
    Most of you know already what I am telling... Double check that the part is in the right location, which is easy with these boards. It is printed there and which direction the Diodes go and where the key is on the connector. Waiting for iron to heat up. Being impatient and thinking the Weller soldering iron was not working, I cranked it up to 5. Even then, touching the pointy tip to the pin and the pad, there was a significant wait. Like count to 30. Then finally the water-soluble Kester solder would melt to the pin and pad. Push the solder in to make a nice puddle. Not too much, but a nice tent structure. Why are my fingers burning? Back them up to the foam pad on the iron. Onto the next one. What an experience! I made something with my own hands. It might even work. Testing tomorrow. Good Night. 11:20Pm.
    [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

    Keep it up!

    #715 2 years ago

    I wanted to drop in & say thank you to Victor for my System11B board for Police Force. He got it to me quickly, really quick. I didn't "need" it for christmas but it sure was nice of him to make sure I got it in the short time available at a very busy time of year. (above & beyond) as you can see by all the pics in this thread, the board is beautiful. mine had a small issue & for all I know I caused it (I am a bit of a bull in a china shop) but victor helped thru numerous emails & asked me to mail it back so he could see for himself. i got it back ASAP in perfect working order.

    then I should also say thanks to the pinsiders. even w/ the new board fixing my battery acid damage, I still had audio issues. more that 1 person pointed out missing stickers leaving exposed sound / speech roms which could be an issue or become one. I replaced them but it didn't fix my speech issue. after searching the forum for people w/ similar issues I replaced the 2 CPUs (only 1 needed to be replaced but I was done fucking around) & she's 100% now. clean displays, speech, & music all working properly again!

    so long story short, pinside saved the day & I can't recommend working w/ DumbAss enough. it was a pleasure. thanks

    #716 2 years ago
    Quoted from Tophervette:

    Well fellow Pinsiders, I attempted for my first soldering an easy WPC89 Coin Door board from DumbAss. 7 small Diodes and 5 connectors. 70 total solder connections and it took me 2 hours. My hat is off to y'all who do the big boards, including Victor! The concentration, the leaning over, the whiffs of burnt flesh and flux. Some may look at my pictures and say "hey, you aren't done." But for my WPC89 Flip II game, it does not use the other parts printed on the board. My manual says that I don't use J4 and J5 or D7. But I was having such fun, that I added J5 and D7 anyway. LOL.
    Most of you know already what I am telling... Double check that the part is in the right location, which is easy with these boards. It is printed there and which direction the Diodes go and where the key is on the connector. Waiting for iron to heat up. Being impatient and thinking the Weller soldering iron was not working, I cranked it up to 5. Even then, touching the pointy tip to the pin and the pad, there was a significant wait. Like count to 30. Then finally the water-soluble Kester solder would melt to the pin and pad. Push the solder in to make a nice puddle. Not too much, but a nice tent structure. Why are my fingers burning? Back them up to the foam pad on the iron. Onto the next one. What an experience! I made something with my own hands. It might even work. Testing tomorrow. Good Night. 11:20Pm.
    [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

    Nice to see you soldering. Need to add a little more solder, I see a few pinholes on some of the pads, unless it is shadows. Keep taking your time, you will know when you get that one solder that is amazing and want to repeat it over and over.

    #717 2 years ago
    Quoted from eyeamred2u:

    Nice to see you soldering. Need to add a little more solder, I see a few pinholes on some of the pads, unless it is shadows. Keep taking your time, you will know when you get that one solder that is amazing and want to repeat it over and over.

    Yes there were a couple shadows/dips that still had dark flux in them where the soldering iron tip was. I have since washed the water soluble flux off and brushed with toothbrush. I will look closer with my magnifying glass to make sure. Thx. It was fun.

    Now I am crimping Molex pins and sockets on 18 and 22 GA wire for the new coils and wiring harness on the second Dr. Who game, I am building.

    DSCF2728 (resized).JPGDSCF2728 (resized).JPG
    #718 2 years ago

    Fantastic work Victor.

    I am defo keen for one of those 3-7's whenever you are ready.
    Take your time mate, it's ready when it ready.

    Many thanks for your work.

    Matt.

    #719 2 years ago
    Quoted from eyeamred2u:

    Nice to see you soldering. Need to add a little more solder, I see a few pinholes on some of the pads, unless it is shadows. Keep taking your time, you will know when you get that one solder that is amazing and want to repeat it over and over.

    This is so true, I love to solder! Ive done a few Stern rectifier boards, System 3-7 solenoid savers, several Wolff Pac displays as well. Its very gratifying and something I do when traveling for business. It can be boring in my hotel room and this is something I am very fond of doing when on the road. Im going to start my WPC89 board soon! Wish I could do more of them, I would love to be able to solder more.

    14
    #720 2 years ago

    In case it wasn't obvious ... of all the tasks I do ... packing and shipping is the most disliked. I really don't like packing and shipping. It's even more mundane than building a board. I have a few boards sitting in my pack queue so I apologize. I just spent the last week spitting out these that now are ready for verification. I can't keep putting off the packing so it will happen shortly.

    I do also need to divide time with component acquisition. Supply chain problems are affecting me so I try to stay ahead of potential issues. I don't always succeed. There are two components that I am having a little trouble sourcing at the moment. I do have workarounds though. I haven't hit the brick wall ... yet.

    Built these displays last week. Waiting for verification. As I have limited desk space I like to batch things so I will batch the verification of the boards following with these displays.

    boards_221.jpgboards_221.jpg

    These two are System 11 (nothing) boards.

    boards_222.jpgboards_222.jpg

    This is a special System 11 board set. It's primarily a System 11 (nothing) board but includes another DAC board (configured for 11B) and the special solenoid status (LED) board. These are options and the status board is not really advertised. I call this configuration "universal" because with all of the included daughter boards the board supports all configurations of System 11.

    boards_223.jpgboards_223.jpg

    And another System 9 board. I had to spin this board to use the relay daughter board. That's one of the components that I am having trouble sourcing.

    boards_224.jpgboards_224.jpg

    Finally ... I had this prototype made. I had previously made an attempt at a unified System 11 power supply but the board has audible hum. I thought it was related to the ground but it might be related to trace routing. So I threw out the early System 11 aspects and tried again. A downgrade to prototype. The board is really simple so it's puzzling to me. I'll put this in my Rollergames when I next get the chance.

    boards_225.jpgboards_225.jpg

    Picked up a few boards for repair. One just need verification that will happen tonight with the rest of the boards above.

    I think I can see the light at the end of the tunnel (zero work queue) but it still feels quite far away. After I get the outstanding boards verified, packed and shipped I intend to take a small break to fix some board issues and restock some others before building the next big batch (WPC-89 power driver boards). The System 3-7 unified board is still on the backburner. It does need some research on my part (as far as testing goes).

    #721 2 years ago

    Looking good Victor!

    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
    http://www.PinWiki.com/ - The new place for pinball repair info

    #722 2 years ago

    You're a freaking workhorse!!!!!

    This is how it should be. Quality products, great updates and communication.

    Thank you for all you do!

    Chris

    10
    #723 2 years ago

    Thanks for all the kind words!

    I finished a pack batch over the weekend and I have a small number of left over boards that are a part of orders that were waiting for components that arrived yesterday.

    I also got some boards in (locally) that needed repair. I am always scared when I see previous repairs. They are often (not always) poorly done and have residual problems. I always suspect prior work/repairs and though I don't like being so cynical it's unfortunately proven to be true quite often. This particular board was interesting. The short (no pun intended) of the problem was that whoever did the repair tied D1 and D6 together so whenever solenoid 2 fired then both solenoid 2 and 7 would fire. Whenever solenoid 7 fired both solenoid 2 and 7 would fire. Same with solenoid 10 and 15 as well as 18 and 23 as well as 26 and 39. It also wreaked havoc on the lamp matrix as you can imagine. I usually like to clean up repairs better than this but the use of the SIP sockets means I won't touch it and only do the minimal amount of work. I stay far away from repairs that use SIP sockets.

    Before:

    01_repair_before.jpg01_repair_before.jpg

    After:

    02_repair_after.jpg02_repair_after.jpg

    In between these small tasks I spent some time on the unified System 3-7 board. It was definitely rushed as there are some interesting problems. Ultimately there's a fundamental problem in this REV-00 that will prevent System 7 boards from working at all. System 6 boards should work but alas ... neither of them work.

    Technical summary of state for those interest:

    • The address for the SRAM region of the address map is not correct. Williams made a change to System 7 that I didn't factor in. This is due to my ignorance of System 3-7 in general. It also definitely does NOT help that I do not have working System 6 or System 7 boards as a control ("gold standard"). I may eventually need a set if I can't figure things out but I'm not at that stage ... yet.
    • The diagnostics for System 6 (two LEDs) and System 7 (digit) are not correct. They're reversed. I read "7400" and thought "AND" but it's actually "NAND" so the BCD to the 7447 is inverted. The System 6 LEDs are reversed as well.
    • The good news is that the Leon works. That means the CPU is executing and the basics of address decode is working.
    • The bad news is that the ~BLANKING signal stays low (active) and there is no activity on the strobe lines. This is a good indicator that the software is either hung or in some form of infinite loop. The error in SRAM mapping should not affect System 6 execution so this is puzzling to me. This needs more investigation.

    The (Williams) universal numeric display works but has a signal input error. I swapped the BCD inputs so there is a workaround that does not require a new board but there is also some other small issue I need to investigate on the board that may require a revision either way. A feature I (attempted) to add to this board is brightness adjustment and it does work but requires more components. The workaround (cable) is shown in the following image.

    boards_226.jpgboards_226.jpg

    I generally take my time when trying to figure out problems. I don't always get things immediately and sometimes it takes a while for the penny to drop. This is why things take time for me to do. I am guessing that I will spend a little more time looking at some of these outstanding issues to make a decision on if I need a new board revision. I like to get board fabrication orders sent with priority because while being fabricated I can do something else. If I reverse that order of operation and build first before fabrication I can potentially spend time waiting for fabrication that could be used in other better ways. A little like overlapped I/O for those familiar with old Windows programming.

    <tl;dr>

    For those that like to read large wads of text with nothing better to do and are interested in the differences between System 6 and System 7 SRAM ... read on.

    • System 6 has two physical RAM ICs of $0080 (128) bytes in size mapped at $0000-$007F and $0080-$00FF. They form a single logical unit of $0100 (256) bytes (JBOD in RAID terminology). The CMOS IC is $0100 (256) nibbles (4 bits not 8 bits) used to hold settings and is mapped at $0100-$01FF.
    • System 7 has two physical RAM ICs of $0400 (1,024) nibbles in size mapped at $1000-$13FF. Each nibble of the byte is written to different units (striping in RAID terminology). The CMOS IC is the same ($0100 nibbles mapped at $0100-$01FF). To maintain compatibility with System 6 the hardware maps $0000-$00FF to the first $0100 bytes of the regular RAM - in essence a double mapping (two addresses map to the same physical location).

    This is the detail that I missed in REV-00. I just mapped everything at $0000 assuming the software knew that $0100 was the CMOS location. The problem with this implementation is that writes to $1100 will overwrite the CMOS at $0100 as they aren't directed to different physical locations. This is why System 7 will never work on the REV-00 board and requires a revision.

    </tl;dr>

    As mentioned above I do not plan to spend too much time on this as I still have outstanding big boards to build. I just need to take a small break from that to recharge. If you're still waiting for a board I will resume building within a few days.

    #724 2 years ago

    Your notes about the System 6 to System 7 differences in the memory mapping would be great to add to pinwiki.com in the early Williams section. May help people repairing those boards.

    #725 2 years ago

    If SIP sockets or machine pin sockets were used it isn’t too bad to replace them if you don’t need to save the old socket. I use the flush cutters to cut the plastic carrier to isolate the pins to unsolder one at a time then clean out the solder later. Depending on what is around them I’ve used the flush cutters to carefully cut them at the PCB. Then clean out each hole after.

    #726 2 years ago
    Quoted from Robotworkshop:

    If SIP sockets or machine pin sockets were used it isn’t too bad to replace them if you don’t need to save the old socket. I use the flush cutters to cut the plastic carrier to isolate the pins to unsolder one at a time then clean out the solder later.

    I do the same to remove them.
    I don't solder sockets flush against the board anymore, rather leave them raised slightly. It's a little more time consuming to setup but makes them easier to unsolder if ever need be and you can see how solder has flowed through to the top side.

    #727 2 years ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    Thanks for all the kind words!
    I finished a pack batch over the weekend and I have a small number of left over boards that are a part of orders that were waiting for components that arrived yesterday.
    I also got some boards in (locally) that needed repair. I am always scared when I see previous repairs. They are often (not always) poorly done and have residual problems. I always suspect prior work/repairs and though I don't like being so cynical it's unfortunately proven to be true quite often. This particular board was interesting. The short (no pun intended) of the problem was that whoever did the repair tied D1 and D6 together so whenever solenoid 2 fired then both solenoid 2 and 7 would fire. Whenever solenoid 7 fired both solenoid 2 and 7 would fire. Same with solenoid 10 and 15 as well as 18 and 23 as well as 26 and 39. It also wreaked havoc on the lamp matrix as you can imagine. I usually like to clean up repairs better than this but the use of the SIP sockets means I won't touch it and only do the minimal amount of work. I stay far away from repairs that use SIP sockets.
    Before:
    [quoted image]
    After:
    [quoted image]
    In between these small tasks I spent some time on the unified System 3-7 board. It was definitely rushed as there are some interesting problems. Ultimately there's a fundamental problem in this REV-00 that will prevent System 7 boards from working at all. System 6 boards should work but alas ... neither of them work.
    Technical summary of state for those interest:

    The address for the SRAM region of the address map is not correct. Williams made a change to System 7 that I didn't factor in. This is due to my ignorance of System 3-7 in general. It also definitely does NOT help that I do not have working System 6 or System 7 boards as a control ("gold standard"). I may eventually need a set if I can't figure things out but I'm not at that stage ... yet.
    The diagnostics for System 6 (two LEDs) and System 7 (digit) are not correct. They're reversed. I read "7400" and thought "AND" but it's actually "NAND" so the BCD to the 7447 is inverted. The System 6 LEDs are reversed as well.
    The good news is that the Leon works. That means the CPU is executing and the basics of address decode is working.
    The bad news is that the ~BLANKING signal stays low (active) and there is no activity on the strobe lines. This is a good indicator that the software is either hung or in some form of infinite loop. The error in SRAM mapping should not affect System 6 execution so this is puzzling to me. This needs more investigation.

    The (Williams) universal numeric display works but has a signal input error. I swapped the BCD inputs so there is a workaround that does not require a new board but there is also some other small issue I need to investigate on the board that may require a revision either way. A feature I (attempted) to add to this board is brightness adjustment and it does work but requires more components. The workaround (cable) is shown in the following image.
    [quoted image]
    I generally take my time when trying to figure out problems. I don't always get things immediately and sometimes it takes a while for the penny to drop. This is why things take time for me to do. I am guessing that I will spend a little more time looking at some of these outstanding issues to make a decision on if I need a new board revision. I like to get board fabrication orders sent with priority because while being fabricated I can do something else. If I reverse that order of operation and build first before fabrication I can potentially spend time waiting for fabrication that could be used in other better ways. A little like overlapped I/O for those familiar with old Windows programming.
    <tl;dr>
    For those that like to read large wads of text with nothing better to do and are interested in the differences between System 6 and System 7 SRAM ... read on.

    System 6 has two physical RAM ICs of $0080 (128) bytes in size mapped at $0000-$007F and $0080-$00FF. They form a single logical unit of $0100 (256) bytes (JBOD in RAID terminology). The CMOS IC is $0100 (256) nibbles (4 bits not 8 bits) used to hold settings and is mapped at $0100-$01FF.
    System 7 has two physical RAM ICs of $0400 (1,024) nibbles in size mapped at $1000-$13FF. Each nibble of the byte is written to different units (striping in RAID terminology). The CMOS IC is the same ($0100 nibbles mapped at $0100-$01FF). To maintain compatibility with System 6 the hardware maps $0000-$00FF to the first $0100 bytes of the regular RAM - in essence a double mapping (two addresses map to the same physical location).

    This is the detail that I missed in REV-00. I just mapped everything at $0000 assuming the software knew that $0100 was the CMOS location. The problem with this implementation is that writes to $1100 will overwrite the CMOS at $0100 as they aren't directed to different physical locations. This is why System 7 will never work on the REV-00 board and requires a revision.
    </tl;dr>
    As mentioned above I do not plan to spend too much time on this as I still have outstanding big boards to build. I just need to take a small break from that to recharge. If you're still waiting for a board I will resume building within a few days.

    What is the issue with repairs involving SIP sockets?

    #728 2 years ago
    Quoted from harig:

    What is the issue with repairs involving SIP sockets?

    It's more difficult to remove them cleanly (at least for me). In my eager early repair days I would try anything and everything but SIP sockets always left me with more pulled pads and traces than anything else. In my experience it is easier to remove an IC directly soldered into the board than it is to remove a SIP socket. I must be doing something wrong (technique). I don't like repairing traces so I avoid causing the potential damage in the first place.

    Quoted from Robotworkshop:

    If SIP sockets or machine pin sockets were used it isn’t too bad to replace them if you don’t need to save the old socket. I use the flush cutters to cut the plastic carrier to isolate the pins to unsolder one at a time then clean out the solder later. Depending on what is around them I’ve used the flush cutters to carefully cut them at the PCB. Then clean out each hole after.

    I have done this. I discovered this in my many experiments to remove them without causing damage. It's just labor. This is a great technique for sure. This particular previous repair wasn't too bad in that there was only one pulled trace/through-hole. I have dealt with much worse previous repairs and my usual policy with previous repairs is undo the entire repair so I can see what I am dealing with. If I don't do that it would be akin to "the blind leading the blind".

    17
    #729 2 years ago

    Received a WPC driver board from Victor tonight. It looks fantastic. I wish I was ready to throw it in a machine and test, but my Indy won't be ready for a while unfortunately. I am decent with a soldering iron, but this quality is far, far above my skill level. It is a very nice product. Thanks!

    20220318_010012.jpg20220318_010012.jpg20220318_010433.jpg20220318_010433.jpg
    22
    #730 2 years ago

    Two of Victors boards finally arrived here in New Zealand!

    After an astonishing 4 MONTHS (!!) transit time (thanks Covid..) my new Rollergames and Taxi MPUs are here.

    Fitted the Rollergames MPU last night - this machine had been stored for years and had rotten batteries, otherwise it’s minty - installed the new MPU and away she went straight away.

    Nice!

    rd

    492AB524-3457-4BC1-A878-7D690B789C19 (resized).jpeg492AB524-3457-4BC1-A878-7D690B789C19 (resized).jpeg
    1 week later
    #731 2 years ago

    Question for Victor, any chances of a Whitestar CPU and Driver in the near future?

    #732 2 years ago

    Here's a tip. Don't show up at TPF on Friday, sell junk boards, and leave on Saturday afternoon. Not that we have this issue with Dumbass of course. Keep on rocking dude!

    #733 2 years ago
    Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

    Question for Victor, any chances of a Whitestar CPU and Driver in the near future?

    Typically ... a few things need to be in place before I go down this road.

    • Have some experience with the system involved. Not required but desired.
    • Research the various machines that used the board (set) to understand the different revisions. Required.
    • Research part availability and if some are unavailable what can be used as a substitute. Required.
    • Obtain sample boards for required component placement (dimensions and mounting holes). Rob my machines, get loaner boards (will be returned) or get donation boards (typically a trashed board that does not need to be returned). Required.
    • Have some way to test the system involved (bench rig or pieces that can be used). Not required but desired.
    • Have a way to test the result in a physical machine once verified on the bench. Required.

    Assessment of the current state (according to me).

    • I only have one machine (Lord of the Rings) and it's on loan to a friend. It is also a Whitestar (WS) MODIFIED.
    • I have done little research on the usage of the board set - i.e. I don't know too much about Stern WS machines.
    • The boards use BSMT2000 and some PALs that need some additional research. The modified uses an ATMEL that I know nothing about.
    • I would only have access to the modified WS and not any original WS boards.
    • I do not have the DMC to be able to see the display output from the CPU board.

    I think you can see there's a lot of work to be done here. Board acquisition is going to be the biggest challenge. It wasn't on my list and I was about to start winding down on going hard with making more boards. I just checked and I made my first board fabrication order 3 years ago. That means I have done nothing on machines for 3 years now.

    I still need to finish off some boards that are incomplete - i.e. still in development or have issues that need resolution. I am a one man show so I do ALL the tasks listed above in addition to actually working on the board schematic capture and board layout. I have reached the point where there has to be decent demand or the board has to be small to want to do something new.

    Quoted from Crash:

    Here's a tip. Don't show up at TPF on Friday, sell junk boards, and leave on Saturday afternoon. Not that we have this issue with Dumbass of course. Keep on rocking dude!

    I know the comment wasn't directed at me. I figure it was referring to another thread.

    The following is not a reply to this comment but a general comment.

    I have never been to TPF. At the beginning of 2020 I was considering going but we all know what happened early 2020. I have not considered going since and only just got the courage to get on an aircraft over the holiday season. I have been (what could be considered) a fixture at the Northwest Pinball and Arcade Show in years past but I am still on the fence about this year. I haven't seen much talk about "repair parties" or local enthusiasm. Maybe I'm just not on the social groups where this is happening (i.e. no Fakebook for me).

    #734 2 years ago

    I think if you had table at any show, people would overwhelm you with repairs or orders. I went to Pinfest on Saturday at Allentown, Pa. last year and saw only two vendors with boards. The basement had no boards for sale, must have sold them all on Friday, including the one he was holding for my swap. The other vendor had some WPC boards left, but they had wires across the back to fix broken traces. It was a buying frenzy at most vendors that I saw. A line to purchase any parts. Apparently, the people bringing games in for Freeplay, get first access to the vendors wares. Then the early bird Friday people get what's left. Thousands of people mulling around for 3 days with cash to burn in their pockets. My take on the situation.

    #735 2 years ago

    Victor’s boards are the shiznit. I have now used several of them and they all work great. Heck, they look fantastic. And they’re not from a basement.

    Thank you Victor for filling an important void. And making sure they work with excellent customer service. Looking forward to the next project. Looks like an Earthshaker.

    14
    #736 2 years ago

    I have to brag on Victor and his awesome boards and customer service. Attached is a picture of my Back Box Boards (BBB). The Red boards (Fliptronics II, MPU, and Power) are from @DumbAss. The Black boards (Pinsound+, DMDLUX and Shaker) from Pinsound. I highly recommend these boards as they work great in my Bally WPC89 Doctor Who Pinball machine.
    Thanks Victor for all you do for the hobby.

    DSCF2768 (resized).JPGDSCF2768 (resized).JPG
    #737 2 years ago

    I did order one the other day.

    #738 2 years ago

    And remember not to buy from some kids (or a grown man) in the basement!

    #739 2 years ago

    Struggling to find a few parts for my WPC89 Power Driver......

    The 74LS240 I can't find at all on Digikey.

    The .100" (2.54mm) 2 x 17 box header has proven to be a tough one! If anyone has a spare, it would be appreciated.

    I find two other parts on Digikey I needed and would like to consolidate from one shipping point if possible. Thanks for the help!

    18
    #740 2 years ago

    Victor Tan is the MAN! My HS is reborn. Good for at least another 37 years! By then I'll be 92 so that works for me. The real beauty here is that this board can be used in all system 11 games thanks to his piggyback DAC boards and removable amplifier and diagnostic PCB.

    I applaud all the guys that are making new boards for our machines!

    P4030313 (resized).JPGP4030313 (resized).JPG
    #741 2 years ago
    Quoted from ibis:

    Struggling to find a few parts for my WPC89 Power Driver......
    The 74LS240 I can't find at all on Digikey.
    The .100" (2.54mm) 2 x 17 box header has proven to be a tough one! If anyone has a spare, it would be appreciated.
    I find two other parts on Digikey I needed and would like to consolidate from one shipping point if possible. Thanks for the help!

    Have you tried Jameco.com?

    #742 2 years ago
    Quoted from eyeamred2u:

    Have you tried Jameco.com?

    Or mouser? Or greatplainselectronics?

    I usually have to go with multiple suppliers, since not all of them carry everything.

    #743 2 years ago
    Quoted from ibis:

    Struggling to find a few parts for my WPC89 Power Driver......
    The 74LS240 I can't find at all on Digikey.
    The .100" (2.54mm) 2 x 17 box header has proven to be a tough one! If anyone has a spare, it would be appreciated.
    I find two other parts on Digikey I needed and would like to consolidate from one shipping point if possible. Thanks for the help!

    You can buy these at the TI store, they might make you get a full tube as min order quantity. 74LS240N is the dip20 version. They registration process is kind of annoying at TI, you have to create an account and within 24 hours it gets approved, then you can buy stuff.
    https://www.ti.com/product/SN74LS240

    If you want to get everything at digikey I am pretty confident HCT240 will work just fine at U9, that is the only LS240 I can find at a glance. You might want to double check with DumbAss though.
    https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/texas-instruments/SN74HCT240N/376810

    #745 2 years ago

    Lots of fake parts at Jameco.

    #746 2 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Or mouser? Or greatplainselectronics?
    I usually have to go with multiple suppliers, since not all of them carry everything.

    Ed at GPE is taking a hiatus for a month, but no, he has none of these items. Mouser is out of the LS chip. Haven’t tried jameco but it sounds like they could be scetch? Fake parts….yikes!

    #747 2 years ago
    Quoted from ibis:

    Haven’t tried jameco but it sounds like they could be scetch? Fake parts….yikes!

    Yes, occasionally they have gotten counterfeit stuff--it's usually limited to discontinued NLA chips/transistors/regulators; the same kinds of things that are littered on ebay and whatnot. The parts that are still in production are usually fine.

    #748 2 years ago

    Instead of the box headers, which are nice, you can use two single .100 SIP pins.
    Dual row headers are a bit more pricey, and really don't add benefit.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #749 2 years ago

    OH! No wonder why I haven't sold any 74LS240s in months... fixed the website!

    Regarding Jameco - I know of one manufacturer that isn't real happy with Jameco due to the parts they stock and where/how they buy them.

    Boxed headers aren't needed but the nice thing about boxed headers is they keep blind and/or impatient people like me from installing the plugs off by one row.

    #750 2 years ago

    Been busy trying to finish the last of the current big boards. I have a bunch of smaller boards before I need to take a hiatus to tend to long neglected things.

    Quoted from ibis:

    Struggling to find a few parts for my WPC89 Power Driver......

    • If you're having trouble locating the correct component let me know which ones.
    • If you're having trouble locating a merchant with the component stocked that's a tough one.

    The supply chain issues are affecting me as well. I'm lucky that I bought a reasonable number of components and often check merchants for heavily used components to keep my numbers up. I have only run out of some specific hardware components that I am able to work around by using substitutes.

    Quoted from barakandl:

    If you want to get everything at digikey I am pretty confident HCT240 will work just fine at U9, that is the only LS240 I can find at a glance.

    Agree with this. The IC is used in a purely digital logic circuit so HCT should be compatible.

    Quoted from PinballManiac40:

    Lots of fake parts at Jameco.

    I avoid Jameco. I got burned once and haven't bought from them since. I, personally, don't recommend them. Others may have had more success. YMMV.

    Quoted from ChrisHibler:

    Instead of the box headers, which are nice, you can use two single .100 SIP pins.
    Dual row headers are a bit more pricey, and really don't add benefit.

    Yes. I was going to suggest this but Chris beat me to it. "Naked" headers are perfectly fine. The OEM board used these. I like the box headers because presbyopia can wreak havoc on cable insertion.

    Quoted from G-P-E:

    Boxed headers aren't needed but the nice thing about boxed headers is they keep blind and/or impatient people like me from installing the plugs off by one row.

    Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

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