(Topic ID: 242158)

DumbAss test and reproduction PCBs

By DumbAss

2 years ago


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  • 120 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 days ago by Tophervette
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    There are 581 posts in this topic. You are on page 12 of 12.
    #551 46 days ago
    Quoted from chaintech:

    Hi DumbAss hope you are well, I am looking to see if I can purchase a System11 CPU/MPU board from you for my big guns project. Please let me know how much it will cost. I live in the UK so have you shipped any of your boards to the UK ?

    I track all communications through messaging rather than posting. Please send a message.

    Reason:

    1. Threads present absolutely all information ever posted sorted by posting date/time (chronologically). There are multiple pages and a lot of noise to filter.
    2. Messages present specific information sorted by user. It is focused and mostly topic/subject directed.
    #552 46 days ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    Would you consider making a Data East/Sega/Whitestar GI smoother board? Craig Aker made the EnerGI Maestro a few years ago but doesn't appear to be persuing this anymore. Still plenty of interest:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/led-gi-smoother-for-data-east/page/9#post-6483071

    I would have to do research on this. I have a basic understanding of PWM. It seems that most of these solutions involve some kind of microcontroller programming (aka firmware). Most of my experience is bigger system programming. I have had some experience with embedded system programming but it has been a while since I dusted off the C/C++ IDE (not since my last employer let me go).

    I think user herg has previously done a System 11 GI OCD. That solution would fit the bill as those systems are direct on/off relay controlled systems rather than granular triac controlled systems (like WPC).

    #553 46 days ago
    Quoted from Robotworkshop:

    The documentation shows the jumpers for the Williams System 11 boards but I didn't see a section that covered the Data East jumpers although they look pretty straightforward from the silkscreen on the PCB. For the 2ms and 1ms and for the frequency select does the * by the b mean that is the default setting?

    When I first wrote up the documentation I tried to make it as complete as possible. Since then documentation has taken a back seat. Actually it could be considered the "backest" seat. I do the bare amount required and sometimes forget to update other areas. It all comes back to the same issue. If I had more time ...

    The silkscreen on all boards is consistent in the sense that any jumper setting that has a known default is marked with an asterisk (*). If there is no reasonable default it is not marked. Such an example of lack of marking is 6116/6264 (on Williams System 9 or 11 boards). If there is a known default that is never changed (such as 1ms/2ms) it can be installed as a fixed jumper (wire between the two points). The jumper was faithfully reproduced but practically the configuration is never changed.

    Quoted from Robotworkshop:

    The other part that isn't clear is the way the lamp matrix is populated. It looks like it can be done the traditional way with TIP42 or with FET devices for the columns. Do you have a suggested build for R201-R208, R31-R38, when the TIP42 is used and also when the FETs are used? If the FETs are installed would all of those resistors just be the 0 ohm jumpers?

    Yes. The silkscreen is a little lacking there. The Williams System 11 silkscreen is a lot better. I removed it on the Data East board because Data East packed the components a little tighter than the Williams board and there is not a lot of room left for silkscreen. It is possible to put the silkscreen at the top left of the board but that would be far away from the installation area.

    If you look carefully at the specified values in the components for the lamp columns you will see components with two values separated by a slash. The left value is for the BJT (TIP42) original implementation. The right value is for the MOSFET implementation.

    BJT (TIP42) implementation:

    • RA8=222 (2.2k Ohm 8B resistor network)
    • R201-R208=000 (0 Ohm resistor)
    • [email protected] (27 Ohm 5W resistor)
    • Q64-Q71=TIP42 (PNP transistor)

    MOSFET implementation:

    • RA8=102 (1k Ohm 8B resistor network)
    • R201-R208=102 (1k Ohm resistor)
    • R31-R38=000 (0 Ohm resistor)
    • Q64-Q71=MOSFET (P-channel MOSFET=IRF9530/IRF9Z34N/FQP17P06)
    Quoted from Robotworkshop:

    Also, any suggested part numbers for the relay and for the 4.7uH 3A inductors?

    • You can purchase relays (and sockets) from Ed G-P-E. You want the LB4H-6 products.
    • The inductor can be a solid wire (recommend 18AWG not 22AWG). I use Abracon AIAP-02-4R7K. That product is now discontinued by the manufacturer. You can also use something more like the original Williams look if you want. Search for "5551-09822-00" on Pinball Spare Parts. The original Data East board used a toroidal inductor. I chose to use the Williams style inductor to avoid having to stock different parts.
    1 week later
    #554 37 days ago

    It's been a week+ of building boards. I got the most recent batch complete and sent along with some bare boards. I took some time out yesterday to build some prototype boards that had been sitting around waiting.

    Dot matrix display row logic using surface mount components. Soldering done by hand. Super annoying for those tiny resistor arrays. One side of the row logic uses discrete resistors as a test.

    boards_175.jpg

    Dot matrix display column logic using surface mount components. I had intended on using the TSSOP form factor for the TLC5926 but I decided against it. The spacing is 0.635mm and that's just insane for hand soldering. I also don't have any TLC5926 is TSSOP. I only have them in SOIC so I just used the adapter.

    boards_176.jpg

    Got everything connected up and it appears to be working. There are some limitations with this prototyping system as the power requirements and signal are transmitted through those tiny breadboard style cables.

    boards_177.jpg

    I do have a board that is design complete with surface mount for the dot matrix display. It is waiting for fabrication but I don't want to make any until I know that there's a chance it will work. This prototyping provides the confidence. That board is now in the next fabrication order. That may be a while out though as I still have more boards to build and nothing urgent for board fabrication.

    Back to building System 11 and System 9 CPU boards.

    #555 37 days ago
    Quoted from Robotworkshop:

    DumbAss I am making good progress on building one of the Data East MPU boards but had a couple questions:
    The documentation shows the jumpers for the Williams System 11 boards but I didn't see a section that covered the Data East jumpers although they look pretty straightforward from the silkscreen on the PCB. For the 2ms and 1ms and for the frequency select does the * by the b mean that is the default setting?
    The other part that isn't clear is the way the lamp matrix is populated. It looks like it can be done the traditional way with TIP42 or with FET devices for the columns. Do you have a suggested build for R201-R208, R31-R38, when the TIP42 is used and also when the FETs are used? If the FETs are installed would all of those resistors just be the 0 ohm jumpers?
    Also, any suggested part numbers for the relay and for the 4.7uH 3A inductors?

    If you get a break and can confirm the parts for the Data East Lamp section and the defaults for the jumpers I can wrap up the Data East PCB.

    #556 37 days ago
    Quoted from Robotworkshop:

    If you get a break and can confirm the parts for the Data East Lamp section and the defaults for the jumpers I can wrap up the Data East PCB.

    Post above ... https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dumbass-test-and-reproduction-pcbs/page/12#post-6486479

    Does that not answer what you need? If not let me know what's still outstanding?

    #557 37 days ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    Post above ... https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dumbass-test-and-reproduction-pcbs/page/12#post-6486479
    Does that not answer what you need? If not let me know what's still outstanding?

    That does answer it. Thank you. Somehow I missed that when looking for new posts.

    #558 35 days ago

    DumbAss

    Do you have any plans/ would you consider making a system 3/4/6/7 WMS all in one board similar to the RD MPU327?
    Even a bare board for end user self population like your other bare boards would be awesome.

    Or maybe separate MPU and Driver boards similar to the originals with a better interconnect system?

    Thanks for taking the time to read this.

    Matt.

    #559 35 days ago

    SYSTEM 9 update: Board rocks! Took me a minute to get new cpu chips but DA's Sys9 board is the bomb. Sounds great, excellent labeling. Just a great replacement that I can have confidence in now. Sorcerer is feisty! Thanks again Victor for just stellar work and great timing

    #560 35 days ago

    I want to take a few moments to comment on what came with my bare pcb purchase, not for sake of its guarantee, just to speak about where these products originate. This is based on my experience alone.

    The boards I ordered came from the original batch. The System 9 mpu reconceived by Victor (DA) is thoughtful in so many ways that just make sense. Something that has irked me, from a design standpoint, knowing what these games were designed for - recreational use in a commercial setting that requires ongoing maintenance - is the lack of on-board info, or tools, to assist in troubleshooting a faulty system. DA's MPU adds thoughtful special solenoid testing (optional to install but why the heck wouldn't you? It's a few switches and passives), additional LEDs for general system info/feedback, and perhaps most useful, clearly labeled everything. What does this connector do? Oh, it's lamp columns, switch drivers, it's obvious that manufacturers could have (and sometimes did) added these simple features. Mind you, this is an aftermarket product, and the spread of interest in pinball maintenance wasn't something I imagine they fathomed in those days.

    I assembled the board probably 3-2 parts I had - parts I ordered. I purchased the added speech daughterboard to tidy things up (I have a spare speech board now with a couple hard to find chips now) and burned the roms for everything to work. NVRAM installed - check. When I had a couple issues early on, Victor helped with just basic info and guidance. Ultimately the only problem I had was a faulty 6808. Finally got my 6802 replacement and this thing sounds so good, clean, loud, crisp. It's pretty neat knowing I've got a brand new MPU in my game that I built. Thanks to Victor (DA) for an amazing replacement option.

    1 week later
    #561 28 days ago

    I still have one more kit of parts/ethernet cables left (containing approx. 390 components and (13) color coded 5' cat5E ethernet cables (6 red, 2 blue, 2 yellow, 1 black, 1 green, 1 white) for those wishing to build the portable test kit (for both system 11 and WPC) that DA is offering.

    the price is $150 plus shipping (first come, first served). pm me your details to calculate the shipping costs and get you a total.

    edit: SOLD

    #562 28 days ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    I still have one more kit of parts/ethernet cables left (containing approx. 390 components and (13) color coded 5' cat5E ethernet cables (6 red, 2 blue, 2 yellow, 1 black, 1 green, 1 white) for those wishing to build the portable test kit (for both system 11 and WPC) that DA is offering.
    the price is $150 plus shipping (first come, first served). pm me your details to calculate the shipping costs and get you a total.

    Which test kit? Can you link back to the post?

    #563 26 days ago

    I almost have the display kit for Pinbot completed. Currently waiting for a few components from Mouser and I’ll be done.

    I’m sharing quite a few pics since I don’t recall seeing anyone else post a build for them in the thread yet.

    I have some other stuff I’m building too, and will echo what others have said - Victor’s kits are pretty straight forward and everything labeled on the pcb saves a ton of time.

    DBM-ALP-QUD built
    24EC28D1-7279-44AE-864E-C6BD53A05453 (resized).jpeg9418F428-8452-41F4-B5DC-9A858118662C (resized).jpegAC46E805-DA96-40AA-B367-41A4AFA0B2E7 (resized).jpeg

    Player 1&2 and 3&4 Adapters built
    A1859A4C-7B8A-42B8-8422-883E64F4DB16 (resized).jpeg

    DBM-ALP-QUD with the player 1&2 and 3&4 adapters in place
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    Individual displays built
    5D1978D7-2496-41D5-A750-97E3C0ED1477 (resized).jpeg67B14A64-B517-4865-BC24-F785FA0DD44A (resized).jpegD371F550-4711-4414-AFFD-7F6CD1942131 (resized).jpeg3A8FEE1E-F510-4170-95C6-B7226CAE0205 (resized).jpeg

    #564 26 days ago

    Working on soldering up a SYS11/WPC test board kit from Victor. Special thanks to j_m_ for sourcing a set of components for the project. DumbAss boards are made incredibly well. His work is not a part time gig. This takes an incredible amount of time and energy. Thanks for everything. I will post some pics as well. Looking nice Wharhed !

    #565 26 days ago
    Quoted from Wharhed:

    I almost have the display kit for Pinbot completed. Currently waiting for a few components from Mouser and I’ll be done.
    I’m sharing quite a few pics since I don’t recall seeing anyone else post a build for them in the thread yet.
    I have some other stuff I’m building too, and will echo what others have said - Victor’s kits are pretty straight forward and everything labeled on the pcb saves a ton of time.
    DBM-ALP-QUD built
    [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
    Player 1&2 and 3&4 Adapters built
    [quoted image]
    DBM-ALP-QUD with the player 1&2 and 3&4 adapters in place
    [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
    Individual displays built
    [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

    I want to see the solder side.

    #566 23 days ago
    Quoted from eyeamred2u:

    I want to see the solder side.

    I didn’t get too many pics of the solder side. Below is what I have at the moment.1A4D0696-D139-41EE-A1AE-0780998C76FD (resized).jpeg03CF5DBC-B415-48BC-8C92-9F1580E96725 (resized).jpeg

    #567 23 days ago

    Got the Pinbot display build completed tonight! I’m very happy with the results. I did find a couple issues, but was able to work around them.

    I’ll probably be making a set of black foam baffles to go around the displays to block out the back box light soon as well.

    The displays looks 100% blue and red in person, my iPhone just washed them out a bit.

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    The biggest snag I ran into was the top right mounting post in the back box was covered by the player 1&2 daughter board. I ended up drilling a hole through the daughter board and rounded it a bit with my dremel. The other issue is that the player 2 ribbon cable (if using the stock cables like I did) was really tight. It reaches and seats fully, but it should probably be replaced with a longer one.

    Mounting hole blocked

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    Drilled player 1&2 daughter board

    FDFAF11D-B24A-4FCE-A150-D41046D87611 (resized).jpegF9F66E7F-5210-48BD-BE9C-817BEA832832 (resized).jpeg

    Widened with the dremel

    5A59CC02-F0E8-4D05-8253-6EBA6201CBCB (resized).jpeg9FE5ED26-319B-41ED-B960-D25C1F25123E (resized).jpeg

    Final pic before mounting the display board

    08081867-FCBB-4EEB-8DED-4888EAF5D949 (resized).jpeg

    Mounting the display board
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    #568 23 days ago

    Soldering looks great! Nice Job

    #569 23 days ago
    Quoted from Wharhed:

    I didn’t get too many pics of the solder side. Below is what I have at the moment.[quoted image][quoted image]

    Nice job on the soldering. I have so many boards to solder this winter I am excited. Wish I had a small wave solder system. But my small set up with fume extraction keeps me busy.

    #570 22 days ago
    Quoted from fattmatt1972:

    Do you have any plans/ would you consider making a system 3/4/6/7 WMS all in one board similar to the RD MPU327?
    Even a bare board for end user self population like your other bare boards would be awesome.
    Or maybe separate MPU and Driver boards similar to the originals with a better interconnect system?

    I do not have much experience with System 3-7. From what I have seen and read it is very similar (and somewhat simpler) than System 9 or System 11. I also do not have any System 7 machines to do any testing with. If I were to attempt this the first thing I would need to do is build a bench testing rig. I don't even have one of those. I would start with known good boards (which I don't have) and get an LED display working (which I have not done). You see where this is going ...

    I would consider this but I have a few other boards that I need / want to do before I even start with System 3-7. There is the remaining WPC-95 boards, the non-working WPC-89 and System 11 boards. I can really only get to them if (or when) my build work queue reaches zero. It has not done that for months now.

    I know that's not what you want to hear but it's reality. Are there not other manufacturers who are making these boards? I thought there were several of them.

    #571 22 days ago
    Quoted from Wharhed:

    The biggest snag I ran into was the top right mounting post in the back box was covered by the player 1&2 daughter board. I ended up drilling a hole through the daughter board and rounded it a bit with my dremel.

    I mounted one in my Laser War and don't recall seeing this issue. I'll have to go back and take a look see. It's likely that Williams and Data East used different board mounting spacers.

    Quoted from Wharhed:

    The other issue is that the player 2 ribbon cable (if using the stock cables like I did) was really tight. It reaches and seats fully, but it should probably be replaced with a longer one.

    I noticed this on my Laser War. They used the minimum distance cable. No slack. Cheapskates.

    10
    #572 22 days ago

    Build. Build. Build.

    I took this photo earlier this afternoon before I completed populating them.

    boards_178.jpg

    I just completed verifying all of them on my bench so I now need to spend some time packing. I hope there will be some happy pinheads in about one to two weeks time!

    Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your point of view) tomorrow I need to help someone in the region so it will be most of the day taken. 1-1/4 hour drive each way plus time spent. The boards will likely go out in a few days.

    Even after these go out I still have another System 9 CPU, System 11 CPU and WPC-89 Power Driver to do. Not to mention I haven't even started a tear down of a machine rebuild I agreed to take on ... or the boards in my fabrication queue that are waiting for fabrication and build/verification once they are received.

    #573 22 days ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    Are there not other manufacturers who are making these boards? I thought there were several of them.

    Not that I am aware of and why would they bother for the exact reasons outlined in this thread - super rare boards, only the potential of a handful of sales at best. No chance of even recouping PCB layout time.

    #574 22 days ago
    Quoted from pins4u:

    Not that I am aware of and why would they bother for the exact reasons outlined in this thread - super rare boards, only the potential of a handful of sales at best. No chance of even recouping PCB layout time.

    I thought there were several replacement options. Some were out of stock for a while but should have more in the next couple months. Never had trouble finding original boards though. The driver works across system 3-7 (just put 0 ohm resistors or jumpers for switch Matrix). The MPU boards are out there too. I’ve never heard anyone mention super rare in regards to the early Williams system 3-7 boards before. At least within the US. Outside of the US is probably another story.

    #575 22 days ago

    Thanks for providing this gap in the hobby!

    #576 17 days ago

    Getting a little closer on the WPC-95 AV board, WPC89 mpu, 16 opto board, and coin door interface.

    I’m putting together a list of stuff I need to order from mouser / Digi-Key. Once I have that, I’ll be on the home stretch!

    Side note - anybody happen to know where I could get a set of the metal brackets for the to board?

    0CC82E45-4758-4A63-B977-BE94D5E9FFA7 (resized).jpeg91B69322-4809-4A39-8D30-EBBDA9389C36 (resized).jpegC6318183-A3BF-4748-9BCC-9286E7186B2A (resized).jpeg

    #577 17 days ago

    The 84-pin ASIC socket is installed incorrectly. You need to flip it 180 degrees. The arrow should point to the right and the notch should be top right. The socket should line up with the silkscreen.

    #578 17 days ago
    Quoted from Wharhed:

    Getting a little closer on the WPC-95 AV board, WPC89 mpu, 16 opto board, and coin door interface.
    I’m putting together a list of stuff I need to order from mouser / Digi-Key. Once I have that, I’ll be on the home stretch!
    Side note - anybody happen to know where I could get a set of the metal brackets for the to board?
    [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

    I have one of Victor's WPC-95 AV boards and it is just fantastic. It cleared up all the issues in our TOTAN and it was like a whole new machine! Highly recommended!

    Chris

    #579 17 days ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    The 84-pin ASIC socket is installed incorrectly. You need to flip it 180 degrees. The arrow should point to the right and the notch should be top right. The socket should line up with the silkscreen.

    Oops - Thanks for catching that. Flipping it now!

    #580 12 days ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    The 84-pin ASIC socket is installed incorrectly. You need to flip it 180 degrees. The arrow should point to the right and the notch should be top right. The socket should line up with the silkscreen.

    This is why I will always use DumbAss for my replacement boards. Unbelievably helpful guy!

    #581 7 days ago

    Happy pinballer here! I ordered a WPC89 Power Driver Board for my Bally Doctor Who game. It had a PINLED board from 2005, which while it worked well, there was ghosting in the GI lights on the playfield (with regular bulbs). Victor was great with communications! I got the populated board which he had to make (see several posts above) and I received it 2 weeks later. I posted pictures of the board, front and back to show the excellent soldering job. Once installed it worked perfectly. I love the added text to the front of the board explaining functions and numbers of the connectors. Some might notice a blank area in the upper left. That is because I have a Fliptronics II board and did not need those extra components (plus saved money too).

    Thank you Victor coming to my rescue and producing quality tested products for the community!!!

    245374754_4822241157800128_7802039031060247540_n (resized).jpg245377481_4822242014466709_6064267048625242669_n (resized).jpgDSCF2538 (resized).JPG
    There are 581 posts in this topic. You are on page 12 of 12.

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