(Topic ID: 242158)

DumbAss test and reproduction PCBs

By DumbAss

4 years ago


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    There are 1,492 posts in this topic. You are on page 10 of 30.
    #451 2 years ago
    Quoted from Methos:

    How much time does it take to put that board together? Must be hours.

    Yea, hours. I spread the soldering out over 3 or 4 days. Getting all the parts ordered took much longer than I thought. You just can't find everything at a reasonable cost at one place.

    I would say I have a moderate skill level. I can work with SMD stuff but working on this was really nice compared to that. I've got a nice solder station with proper fume extraction, this is a massive help on something like this.

    Time consuming, but highly rewarding.

    Cheers

    Cris

    19
    #452 2 years ago

    Just surfacing to let people following along know that I am NOT a production line.

    boards_138.jpgboards_138.jpg

    This is six days of work. It includes pulling, counting, inserting and soldering the components. The boards are built in phases. They are washed between phases to limit flux buildup. There is one more System 11C CPU board that missed this photo that I took yesterday.

    I woke up today and my hand was hurting a little. I guess that means I'm getting old. It also means I should slow down a little. Today is a little bit of breather.

    I have a new universal master display board that I want to build today and test that board while testing these CPU boards on my bench.

    I am trying to answer PMs as quickly as possible and will return to comment on the previous posts once I get this batch of System 11 CPU boards verified and shipped.

    #453 2 years ago

    Looks great! Take a break, ice the hand.

    I am 98% done sourcing my parts, will do more leg work on some data sheets tomorrow, all good reading. Can't wait to get my parts and build these System 11 boards!!

    Ken

    #454 2 years ago

    I received my bare diagnostic (test) boards from victor about a month ago, but have been working on other pcb assembly projects and didn't get around to ordering the components until this evening. since I was already ordering the components for myself, I figured I would up the quantities to take advantage of some of the price breaks.

    so, for others that were interested in purchasing and building the diagnostic (tester) boards from @dumbass, I've gone and purchased 2 additional sets worth of components for the main diagnostic board and all 20 of the ancillary boards (although 2 of the connectors are on back order and I will not have them until late april & june).

    to save a couple people the time and anguish of sourcing the parts from multiple vendors, once I receive all of the parts I will kit them up and offer them for sale on a first come, first served basis

    I will also be including some additional colored LEDs for those interested in changing up the indicators for the williams standard, williams pinbot/f14, data east, power, wpc always closed, wpc trough jam and manual indicators.

    the color of the 8x8 LED block that I can include will depend on what I have left in stock at the time (I ordered those in a few different colors [white, red, green, blue] as well)

    #455 2 years ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    I received my bare diagnostic (test) boards from victor about a month ago, but have been working on other pcb assembly projects and didn't get around to ordering the components until this evening. since I was already ordering the components for myself, I figured I would up the quantities to take advantage of some of the price breaks.
    so, for others that were interested in purchasing and building the diagnostic (tester) boards from DumbAss, I've gone and purchased 2 additional sets worth of components for the main diagnostic board and all 20 of the ancillary boards (although 2 of the connectors are on back order and I will not have them until late april & june).
    to save a couple people the time and anguish of sourcing the parts from multiple vendors, once I receive all of the parts I will kit them up and offer them for sale on a first come, first served basis
    I will also be including some additional colored LEDs for those interested in changing up the indicators for the williams standard, williams pinbot/f14, data east, power, wpc always closed, wpc trough jam and manual indicators.
    the color of the 8x8 LED block that I can include will depend on what I have left in stock at the time (I ordered those in a few different colors as well)

    No wonder I can't find stuff...arghhhh Just kidding!

    1 week later
    #456 2 years ago

    I completed my build this weekend (with the exception of the 3 connectors still on back order).

    I believe that one of the 2 additional kits that I have available is already spoken for and will be adding the needed ethernet cables (5' shielded cat 5e) to my kit to make it easier (having everything you will need) to build and use.

    I will be including (6) red, (2) blue, (2) yellow, (1) black, (1) white and (1) green 5' cat5e cables with the components (the colors of the cables match those of the ancillary boards for both system 11 and WPC).

    the total will be $150 plus shipping

    edit:
    I found a few mistakes in the BOM and have let victor know. there are 2 additional components not listed. on one of the system 11 and one WPC ancillary boards, they both require an additional 7pin and 9pin male header to be soldered in.

    the cheapest (and easiest) solution for this is purchase (1) 26-48-1241 [connector, 0.156" header, 24 pin] and cut it down to the (2) appropriate sized sections needed. I will be doing that for the kits that I have as well.

    edit2:
    one of the eithernet cables is on back order, but it's really no big deal since they will still arrive before the connectors that are on backorder.

    10
    #457 2 years ago

    With Pinside being down for about a week about a week ago I just worked through the work list.

    I did end up making a small change to the Data East CPU board as I ran out of the original quantity that I had made. I know that Stern Whitestar CPU boards have a test feature that allows alligator clipping two points to test the transistor drive side. Essentially it separates the digital logic side of the drive from the power side of the drive. Since I laid out this board differently from the OEM board and there was space to adjust components I managed to slip in the requirements to be able to test this. Rather than use alligator clips I ran the connections to a ribbon cable connector and made a separate board to allow testing this. I plan to see if it's possible to also connect an indicator board rather than a driving board. The driving board allows the power side of the drive to be tested. The indicator board would show whether the digital logic side of the drive works. This allows separation an easier differential diagnosis between the digital logic side and the power side.

    The board with the diagnostic additions. CN201 at the center/bottom is the new connector.

    boards_139.jpgboards_139.jpg

    The drive board. There are options to engage or disengage the A/C relay - either Williams or Data East. I don't have a Williams System 11 CPU board that is compatible with this as the System 11 CPU board follows the OEM layout. The Williams layout is more spaced out than the Data East layout. Both have no vias in their layouts.

    boards_140.jpgboards_140.jpg

    The board tested in my Laser War. Not the best test candidate as Laser War has only one solenoid in the solenoid 1-8 group. The board works on my bench and in a machine.

    boards_141.jpgboards_141.jpg

    I think in the end that I would classify this more as a novelty than a practicality. If the digital logic ICs are all installed with sockets then differential diagnosis is easily accomplished by swapping out the ICs. Therefore there is limited benefit to this. I am open to opinions if anybody following along has one. It's going to be work to do this to the Williams board and will likely require component layout changes and/or the introduction of vias. Both of these reasons (IMHO) are reasons against doing it to the Williams board. I haven't even looked at doing this to the WPC-89 power board.

    I still have outstanding orders but I did take some time out to test/build/diagnose some other (new design) boards that had come in. More on this to follow when those revisions come in and I assess them.

    Quoted from j_m_:

    I found a few mistakes in the BOM and have let victor know. there are 2 additional components not listed. on one of the system 11 and one WPC ancillary boards, they both require an additional 7pin and 9pin male header to be soldered in.
    the cheapest (and easiest) solution for this is purchase (1) 26-48-1241 [connector, 0.156" header, 24 pin] and cut it down to the (2) appropriate sized sections needed. I will be doing that for the kits that I have as well.

    I didn't formally acknowledge the email so this is the acknowledgement. People who knew me when I was working (at my last company) knew me as "a man of few words". I typically don't reply with acknowledgements unless asked to acknowledge. It can be perceived as noise - particularly when acknowledging to a big distribution list. I operate on the principle if you have something relevant to say then say it.

    FWIW: I use 26-48-1245 rather than 26-48-1241. The difference is a friction lock. 26-48-1241 is not "polarized" - you can install it in either direction. 26-48-1245 is "polarized" by the friction lock. The silkscreen indicates which side of the board and in which orientation the header should be installed.

    #458 2 years ago

    So life goes on.

    • The kitchen sink plumbing had a small leak that could be controlled by the stop valve but eventually the stop valve failed. Take out a day or two to deal with this.
    • You know you are old when you wake up one morning with a sore, inflamed and swollen toe/foot but you don't remember any trauma to the area. You end up hobbling around the house as it slows you down significantly.
    • You get the initial SARS-CoV-2 vaccine in the afternoon and later in the evening the injection site at the shoulder starts hurting and you start feeling cold and shivering despite it being (relatively) warm. It means take it easy for the next few days to be sure.

    Yesterday a board fabrication order arrived. There's a few revisions to a few things in the order but I'll focus on the one thing that some have been waiting for. It's for numeric/alphanumeric segmented displays.

    In order to better understand the rest of this post the master/slave alphanumeric display system I built needs to be better explained. The system consists of a single slave panel that has enough LED blocks to be able to display any of the alphanumeric display systems used by Williams or Data East. It is focused on alphanumeric but can be adapted to numeric only as well. The slave panel has an upper and lower row of 16 alphanumeric LED blocks. It has a left and right row of 8 numeric LED blocks that correspond to the "jackpot" and "chips" displays used in Taxi, Police Force and Riverboat Gambler. These numeric displays can also double as "credit/match" displays used in High Speed, Grand Lizard, Road Kings, Pinbot and Millionaire. The master board drives the LED blocks on the slave panel. This particular slave panel has the 8P8C (RJ-45 or ethernet jack) connectors installed.

    boards_142.jpgboards_142.jpg

    This "universal alphanumeric master display board" (below) will drive the slave for any System 11 alphanumeric display protocol as well as Data East alphanumeric display protocol. There is a "bug" in this revision 00 board when used with the "discrete" configuration. This is the High Speed configuration. The credit/match digits are mirrored in the panel as well as being displayed on the small 7-segment displays at the bottom. The mode selection is based on a binary selection tree and it not very intuitive. I built this board for me because I got sick of swapping out the master board on my bench when I needed to test different systems. I never thought I would need more than the initial board I built. Turns out I was wrong and there is a (small) demand for something like this. This is the revision 00 board.

    boards_143.jpgboards_143.jpg

    I had had this board (below) made in October 2019 (!) and it sat around unpopulated and untested for that period of time. This board is an 8P8C master display board for Williams System 3-6 (6-digit) and Williams System 6A-9 (7-digit). It requires a connection to the slave board using an ethernet patch cable. It was built for experimentation and my initial portable display testing system. Coupled with an adapter it initially showed an issue with System 9 numeric display but I figured it out and got it work. For the astute reader this suggests a System 9 CPU board is in development because I need to have a way to verify a board on the bench and I have to put in all the required testing tools first. The System 3-6 side of this board (obviously) remains untested (as the 8P8C connectors are not populated). Once I get some more experience with System 3-6 I'll probably return to this. As it stands I have zero experience with these systems.

    boards_144.jpgboards_144.jpg

    With the small demand for the universal master alphanumeric and the working 7-digit numeric board I figured I would combine the two into a board that works with System 9 numeric and any System 11 or Data East alphanumeric. I also changed the mode selection to be a little more intuitive. The original binary selection tree method did not allow for any ambiguous or indeterminate state. This new selection is purely based on a simple switch to enable the mode. It does allow multiple modes and has no error correction for or detection of these states. That's the trade-off for a more intuitive mode selection. For Chris Hibler's usage scenario the board is mounted so that the mode selection is not easily reached being at the rear of the display panel. So I provided for a remote connection and a remote selection board. This allows for a simple wiring harness to remote the selection to a board that can be mounted to face forward.

    boards_145.jpgboards_145.jpg

    Alas ... this board has problems too. It mostly works. I traded one problem for another. At power when used in discrete or quad mode, the stray credit/match strobes are brightly illuminated until the blanking signal kicks in. It's also random. Some power on cycles will show the problem. Other power on cycles do not. I left it for a while to go do other things. Then I came back to seriously look at it. Long story short ... it turns out the change that I made for original revision 00 problem left a floating signal on a bus. A buffer/transceiver IC will take that floating signal and output a fixed/correct signal (that is not floating). As the input signal is floating it is random what the output signal will be. The revision 00 board does not exhibit this problem because there is no floating intermediate signal. That was introduced in this revision. So I added two pull down resistors to fix the floating signals and ground them. Grounding them fixed the problem.

    That dealt with the alphanumeric side. I then went to test the numeric side and it was completely blank. Turns out that the signal on the 26-pin ribbon cable is BLANKING but the signal on 1J3-12 is ~BLANKING. I merged the signals on the master board so the blanking signal was reversed ... hence no display. So I had to cut the signal bridge. When I did this I introduced a floating signal. Good thing I learned how to detect floating signals above. I applied a pull down resistor to the ~BLANKING signal from 1J3-12 and corrected the connection to the strobe drives. Everything works.

    boards_146.jpgboards_146.jpg

    The revision 01 board also reversed the LED indicator status. When the mode was selected the LED was off. That left all the other LEDs on and it's very hard to easily see what the mode is. So I fixed that as well. Stupid mistake. Not paying attention to detail. This typically happens with me when I am impatient and push something through prematurely without taking the time to carefully review everything. At least two, three or more times is usually required to find most problems. Even then I still make mistakes.

    boards_147.jpgboards_147.jpg

    The board will remain unbuilt and untested for a short period of time as I need some more IC sockets (waiting on delivery) and I have another higher priority board I need to get complete and out of design. I am borrowing boards that need to be returned so these boards have to go through the process NOW rather than later. I like to work in a FIFO (first in first out) queue system but priority is priority which is why a linked list structure is used instead of a linear array.

    #459 2 years ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    So life goes on.

    The kitchen sink plumbing had a small leak that could be controlled by the stop valve but eventually the stop valve failed. Take out a day or two to deal with this.
    You know you are old when you wake up one morning with a sore, inflamed and swollen toe/foot but you don't remember any trauma to the area. You end up hobbling around the house as it slows you down significantly.
    You get the initial SARS-CoV-2 vaccine in the afternoon and later in the evening the injection site at the shoulder starts hurting and you start feeling cold and shivering despite it being (relatively) warm. It means take it easy for the next few days to be sure.

    Yesterday a board fabrication order arrived. There's a few revisions to a few things in the order but I'll focus on the one thing that some have been waiting for. It's for numeric/alphanumeric segmented displays.
    In order to better understand the rest of this post the master/slave alphanumeric display system I built needs to be better explained. The system consists of a single slave panel that has enough LED blocks to be able to display any of the alphanumeric display systems used by Williams or Data East. It is focused on alphanumeric but can be adapted to numeric only as well. The slave panel has an upper and lower row of 16 alphanumeric LED blocks. It has a left and right row of 8 numeric LED blocks that correspond to the "jackpot" and "chips" displays used in Taxi, Police Force and Riverboat Gambler. These numeric displays can also double as "credit/match" displays used in High Speed, Grand Lizard, Road Kings, Pinbot and Millionaire. The master board drives the LED blocks on the slave panel. This particular slave panel has the 8P8C (RJ-45 or ethernet jack) connectors installed.
    [quoted image]
    This "universal alphanumeric master display board" (below) will drive the slave for any System 11 alphanumeric display protocol as well as Data East alphanumeric display protocol. There is a "bug" in this revision 00 board when used with the "discrete" configuration. This is the High Speed configuration. The credit/match digits are mirrored in the panel as well as being displayed on the small 7-segment displays at the bottom. The mode selection is based on a binary selection tree and it not very intuitive. I built this board for me because I got sick of swapping out the master board on my bench when I needed to test different systems. I never thought I would need more than the initial board I built. Turns out I was wrong and there is a (small) demand for something like this. This is the revision 00 board.
    [quoted image]
    I had had this board (below) made in October 2019 (!) and it sat around unpopulated and untested for that period of time. This board is an 8P8C master display board for Williams System 3-6 (6-digit) and Williams System 6A-9 (7-digit). It requires a connection to the slave board using an ethernet patch cable. It was built for experimentation and my initial portable display testing system. Coupled with an adapter it initially showed an issue with System 9 numeric display but I figured it out and got it work. For the astute reader this suggests a System 9 CPU board is in development because I need to have a way to verify a board on the bench and I have to put in all the required testing tools first. The System 3-6 side of this board (obviously) remains untested (as the 8P8C connectors are not populated). Once I get some more experience with System 3-6 I'll probably return to this. As it stands I have zero experience with these systems.
    [quoted image]
    With the small demand for the universal master alphanumeric and the working 7-digit numeric board I figured I would combine the two into a board that works with System 9 numeric and any System 11 or Data East alphanumeric. I also changed the mode selection to be a little more intuitive. The original binary selection tree method did not allow for any ambiguous or indeterminate state. This new selection is purely based on a simple switch to enable the mode. It does allow multiple modes and has no error correction for or detection of these states. That's the trade-off for a more intuitive mode selection. For Chris Hibler's usage scenario the board is mounted so that the mode selection is not easily reached being at the rear of the display panel. So I provided for a remote connection and a remote selection board. This allows for a simple wiring harness to remote the selection to a board that can be mounted to face forward.
    [quoted image]
    Alas ... this board has problems too. It mostly works. I traded one problem for another. At power when used in discrete or quad mode, the stray credit/match strobes are brightly illuminated until the blanking signal kicks in. It's also random. Some power on cycles will show the problem. Other power on cycles do not. I left it for a while to go do other things. Then I came back to seriously look at it. Long story short ... it turns out the change that I made for original revision 00 problem left a floating signal on a bus. A buffer/transceiver IC will take that floating signal and output a fixed/correct signal (that is not floating). As the input signal is floating it is random what the output signal will be. The revision 00 board does not exhibit this problem because there is no floating intermediate signal. That was introduced in this revision. So I added two pull down resistors to fix the floating signals and ground them. Grounding them fixed the problem.
    That dealt with the alphanumeric side. I then went to test the numeric side and it was completely blank. Turns out that the signal on the 26-pin ribbon cable is BLANKING but the signal on 1J3-12 is ~BLANKING. I merged the signals on the master board so the blanking signal was reversed ... hence no display. So I had to cut the signal bridge. When I did this I introduced a floating signal. Good thing I learned how to detect floating signals above. I applied a pull down resistor to the ~BLANKING signal from 1J3-12 and corrected the connection to the strobe drives. Everything works.
    [quoted image]
    The revision 01 board also reversed the LED indicator status. When the mode was selected the LED was off. That left all the other LEDs on and it's very hard to easily see what the mode is. So I fixed that as well. Stupid mistake. Not paying attention to detail. This typically happens with me when I am impatient and push something through prematurely without taking the time to carefully review everything. At least two, three or more times is usually required to find most problems. Even then I still make mistakes.
    [quoted image]
    The board will remain unbuilt and untested for a short period of time as I need some more IC sockets (waiting on delivery) and I have another higher priority board I need to get complete and out of design. I am borrowing boards that need to be returned so these boards have to go through the process NOW rather than later. I like to work in a FIFO (first in first out) queue system but priority is priority which is why a linked list structure is used instead of a linear array.

    Amazing work, it looks great

    #460 2 years ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    So life goes on.

    The kitchen sink plumbing had a small leak that could be controlled by the stop valve but eventually the stop valve failed. Take out a day or two to deal with this.
    You know you are old when you wake up one morning with a sore, inflamed and swollen toe/foot but you don't remember any trauma to the area. You end up hobbling around the house as it slows you down significantly.
    You get the initial SARS-CoV-2 vaccine in the afternoon and later in the evening the injection site at the shoulder starts hurting and you start feeling cold and shivering despite it being (relatively) warm. It means take it easy for the next few days to be sure.

    Yesterday a board fabrication order arrived. There's a few revisions to a few things in the order but I'll focus on the one thing that some have been waiting for. It's for numeric/alphanumeric segmented displays.
    In order to better understand the rest of this post the master/slave alphanumeric display system I built needs to be better explained. The system consists of a single slave panel that has enough LED blocks to be able to display any of the alphanumeric display systems used by Williams or Data East. It is focused on alphanumeric but can be adapted to numeric only as well. The slave panel has an upper and lower row of 16 alphanumeric LED blocks. It has a left and right row of 8 numeric LED blocks that correspond to the "jackpot" and "chips" displays used in Taxi, Police Force and Riverboat Gambler. These numeric displays can also double as "credit/match" displays used in High Speed, Grand Lizard, Road Kings, Pinbot and Millionaire. The master board drives the LED blocks on the slave panel. This particular slave panel has the 8P8C (RJ-45 or ethernet jack) connectors installed.
    [quoted image]
    This "universal alphanumeric master display board" (below) will drive the slave for any System 11 alphanumeric display protocol as well as Data East alphanumeric display protocol. There is a "bug" in this revision 00 board when used with the "discrete" configuration. This is the High Speed configuration. The credit/match digits are mirrored in the panel as well as being displayed on the small 7-segment displays at the bottom. The mode selection is based on a binary selection tree and it not very intuitive. I built this board for me because I got sick of swapping out the master board on my bench when I needed to test different systems. I never thought I would need more than the initial board I built. Turns out I was wrong and there is a (small) demand for something like this. This is the revision 00 board.
    [quoted image]
    I had had this board (below) made in October 2019 (!) and it sat around unpopulated and untested for that period of time. This board is an 8P8C master display board for Williams System 3-6 (6-digit) and Williams System 6A-9 (7-digit). It requires a connection to the slave board using an ethernet patch cable. It was built for experimentation and my initial portable display testing system. Coupled with an adapter it initially showed an issue with System 9 numeric display but I figured it out and got it work. For the astute reader this suggests a System 9 CPU board is in development because I need to have a way to verify a board on the bench and I have to put in all the required testing tools first. The System 3-6 side of this board (obviously) remains untested (as the 8P8C connectors are not populated). Once I get some more experience with System 3-6 I'll probably return to this. As it stands I have zero experience with these systems.
    [quoted image]
    With the small demand for the universal master alphanumeric and the working 7-digit numeric board I figured I would combine the two into a board that works with System 9 numeric and any System 11 or Data East alphanumeric. I also changed the mode selection to be a little more intuitive. The original binary selection tree method did not allow for any ambiguous or indeterminate state. This new selection is purely based on a simple switch to enable the mode. It does allow multiple modes and has no error correction for or detection of these states. That's the trade-off for a more intuitive mode selection. For Chris Hibler's usage scenario the board is mounted so that the mode selection is not easily reached being at the rear of the display panel. So I provided for a remote connection and a remote selection board. This allows for a simple wiring harness to remote the selection to a board that can be mounted to face forward.
    [quoted image]
    Alas ... this board has problems too. It mostly works. I traded one problem for another. At power when used in discrete or quad mode, the stray credit/match strobes are brightly illuminated until the blanking signal kicks in. It's also random. Some power on cycles will show the problem. Other power on cycles do not. I left it for a while to go do other things. Then I came back to seriously look at it. Long story short ... it turns out the change that I made for original revision 00 problem left a floating signal on a bus. A buffer/transceiver IC will take that floating signal and output a fixed/correct signal (that is not floating). As the input signal is floating it is random what the output signal will be. The revision 00 board does not exhibit this problem because there is no floating intermediate signal. That was introduced in this revision. So I added two pull down resistors to fix the floating signals and ground them. Grounding them fixed the problem.
    That dealt with the alphanumeric side. I then went to test the numeric side and it was completely blank. Turns out that the signal on the 26-pin ribbon cable is BLANKING but the signal on 1J3-12 is ~BLANKING. I merged the signals on the master board so the blanking signal was reversed ... hence no display. So I had to cut the signal bridge. When I did this I introduced a floating signal. Good thing I learned how to detect floating signals above. I applied a pull down resistor to the ~BLANKING signal from 1J3-12 and corrected the connection to the strobe drives. Everything works.
    [quoted image]
    The revision 01 board also reversed the LED indicator status. When the mode was selected the LED was off. That left all the other LEDs on and it's very hard to easily see what the mode is. So I fixed that as well. Stupid mistake. Not paying attention to detail. This typically happens with me when I am impatient and push something through prematurely without taking the time to carefully review everything. At least two, three or more times is usually required to find most problems. Even then I still make mistakes.
    [quoted image]
    The board will remain unbuilt and untested for a short period of time as I need some more IC sockets (waiting on delivery) and I have another higher priority board I need to get complete and out of design. I am borrowing boards that need to be returned so these boards have to go through the process NOW rather than later. I like to work in a FIFO (first in first out) queue system but priority is priority which is why a linked list structure is used instead of a linear array.

    If only one button can be activated at a time, would it make more sense to use some sort of rotary dial or rotary switch instead, in order to prevent issues with multiple buttons from being pressed?

    #461 2 years ago

    That was a good read @dumbass. I very much await the board when you've pronounced it good.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #462 2 years ago

    I’m glad to see the universal display boards coming along. I think myself and the three guys posting above me have been waiting for something like this.

    #463 2 years ago
    Quoted from uncivil_engineer:

    I’m glad to see the universal display boards coming along. I think myself and the three guys posting above me have been waiting for something like this.

    You are not the only 3 waiting patiently. Love the input on this thread. Have several boards and they are awesome and his support is top notch. Glad the people here are providing valuable input, time and feedback to support the overall project.

    Ken

    1 week later
    #464 2 years ago

    @DumbAss

    Thank you so much for building this display for my Diner machine!! *bump*

    IMG_20210503_180335197 (resized).jpgIMG_20210503_180335197 (resized).jpg

    #465 2 years ago

    High Speed is back from the dead! Thank you for giving me the means to get this pin flipping again!

    20210510_170126_capture(0) (resized).jpg20210510_170126_capture(0) (resized).jpg
    #466 2 years ago

    Any thoughts on a system 3-7 board set?

    #467 2 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    If only one button can be activated at a time, would it make more sense to use some sort of rotary dial or rotary switch instead, in order to prevent issues with multiple buttons from being pressed?

    Two primary reasons. One secondary reason.

    1. I don't like to use "non-standard" components. I try to use the components I have.
    2. Rotary switches are expensive. The simple push switches are cents. The rotary switches are dollars.
    3. The audience for this product is limited and generally anyone using this should know what they're doing.
    Quoted from mclovinwvu:

    High Speed is back from the dead! Thank you for giving me the means to get this pin flipping again!

    You are most welcome. Glad to have been able to help!

    Quoted from Pinphila:

    Any thoughts on a system 3-7 board set?

    I don't have any experience with System 3-7 boards. I don't have any System 3-7 machines and therefore I don't have any boards to use as a template. I know that the Williams 3-7 are general subsets of Williams systems 9-11. WPC is a whole separate beast. I might consider this but I would need to have a working bench display (I don't have one at the moment) and I would need boards to use for templates (dimensions and component / mounting hole placement). There are a few boards in my queue so this doesn't even get anywhere near the radar at the moment.

    11
    #468 2 years ago

    Board update. Parts I was waiting on arrived. A little slower than I would have liked. I got a rush on some boards and didn't watch the part inventory. I am still finishing up some board builds. Once this batch is complete and shipped I might take a break from board building for a bit. I have done a lot of it and if I continue with it I might burn out.

    The Lord of the Displays works. One display to rule System 9, System 11 and Data East alphanumeric displays. The remote selection works as well.

    • Williams Double Alphanumeric (Black Knight 2000). Also supports Bally left/right as top/bottom.boards_148.jpgboards_148.jpg
    • Williams Jackpot (Taxi, Police Force and Riverboat Gambler).boards_149.jpgboards_149.jpg
    • Data East Double Alphanumeric (The Simpsons).boards_150.jpgboards_150.jpg
    • Williams and Data East Quad Alphanumeric/Numeric (Swords of Fury).boards_151.jpgboards_151.jpg
    • Williams and Data East Discrete Alphanumeric/Numeric (High Speed). The bug is fixed!boards_152.jpgboards_152.jpg
    • Williams 7-digit Numeric (Comet).boards_153.jpgboards_153.jpg

    I have also been working on some other small ancillary boards but now that I have the means to fully bench test Williams System 9 CPU boards that big board is up next. It's about 50% complete. Schematic capture complete. Board dimensions and fixed placement complete. Component placement tentative. That is the current status. I last touched that board late February. Since then it's been board builds for the most part. Unfortunately at this time of the year yard work also interferes with progress.

    #469 2 years ago
    Quoted from mclovinwvu:

    High Speed is back from the dead! Thank you for giving me the means to get this pin flipping again!
    [quoted image]

    Sweet lighting!

    #470 2 years ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    Board update. Parts I was waiting on arrived. A little slower than I would have liked. I got a rush on some boards and didn't watch the part inventory. I am still finishing up some board builds. Once this batch is complete and shipped I might take a break from board building for a bit. I have done a lot of it and if I continue with it I might burn out.
    The Lord of the Displays works. One display to rule System 9, System 11 and Data East alphanumeric displays. The remote selection works as well.

    Williams Double Alphanumeric (Black Knight 2000). Also supports Bally left/right as top/bottom.[quoted image]
    Williams Jackpot (Taxi, Police Force and Riverboat Gambler).[quoted image]
    Data East Double Alphanumeric (The Simpsons).[quoted image]
    Williams and Data East Quad Alphanumeric/Numeric (Swords of Fury).[quoted image]
    Williams and Data East Discrete Alphanumeric/Numeric (High Speed). The bug is fixed![quoted image]
    Williams 7-digit Numeric (Comet).[quoted image]

    I have also been working on some other small ancillary boards but now that I have the means to fully bench test Williams System 9 CPU boards that big board is up next. It's about 50% complete. Schematic capture complete. Board dimensions and fixed placement complete. Component placement tentative. That is the current status. I last touched that board late February. Since then it's been board builds for the most part. Unfortunately at this time of the year yard work also interferes with progress.

    OK so where do we get on the list for a set of these display boards for Riverboat Gambler?

    Chris

    #471 2 years ago
    Quoted from 85Txaggie:

    Victor, not sure where you ended up on the Capcom Flipper Football display. I have a NOS one if you need it to borrow.

    Victor, did you see this?

    Any feedback from the block manufacturer about being able to provide a suitable unit that will suit our purposes?

    #472 2 years ago

    What do the little red displays on the bottom do? Never seen those before.

    #473 2 years ago
    Quoted from SilverUnicorn:

    OK so where do we get on the list for a set of these display boards for Riverboat Gambler?

    It might seem that I forgot about the display but I haven't. I have to split my time according to a priority scheme. The logic works (for Riverboat Gambler) but I want to absolutely verify that it will before I make it available to you. I will follow up with you on the Pinside mail thread. I do welcome nudges and reminders as recently I seem to be getting pulled in different directions. Just an inevitable eventuality. It used to happen to me in different groups at the company I worked for over the years.

    Quoted from 85Txaggie:

    not sure where you ended up on the Capcom Flipper Football display. I have a NOS one if you need it to borrow.

    Quoted from xeneize:

    Any feedback from the block manufacturer about being able to provide a suitable unit that will suit our purposes?

    I did see it. I needed to place an order to restock the LED blocks and I asked about this with the manufacturer. It seems they're also a little backlogged and there is a delay on manufacturing of the blocks. I had to nudge them a few times to get a revised estimated shipping date. I will ask them again shortly. I only inquired about potential manufacturing of a compatible block and if so a potential pricing on that block. This is at the back of mind on a lower priority thread but still going! I will contact 85Txaggie if I need it. He also has a DE sound board (I hope it's still available) that I will be looking to acquire at some stage. I have a few things going on at the same time and again I welcome the nudging.

    Quoted from Crash:

    What do the little red displays on the bottom do? Never seen those before.

    Those 7-digit numeric blocks take the place of the satellite (jackpot) displays used in Taxi, Police Force and Riverboat Gambler. Those are normally connected to 20-pin ribbon cable connectors but I also routed the signals to those blocks at the bottom of the display. It allows the slave panel to support all configurations in a single panel. You don't see it in the Police Force image above but they work during the display test. I used it to separate the credit/match or status display from the main panels to make it obvious. The discrete system needs 5 individual displays and those 7-digit blocks at the bottom worked out perfectly for use as the credit/match display.

    #474 2 years ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    It might seem that I forgot about the display but I haven't. I have to split my time according to a priority scheme. The logic works (for Riverboat Gambler) but I want to absolutely verify that it will before I make it available to you. I will follow up with you on the Pinside mail thread. I do welcome nudges and reminders as recently I seem to be getting pulled in different directions. Just an inevitable eventuality. It used to happen to me in different groups at the company I worked for over the years.

    I did see it. I needed to place an order to restock the LED blocks and I asked about this with the manufacturer. It seems they're also a little backlogged and there is a delay on manufacturing of the blocks. I had to nudge them a few times to get a revised estimated shipping date. I will ask them again shortly. I only inquired about potential manufacturing of a compatible block and if so a potential pricing on that block. This is at the back of mind on a lower priority thread but still going! I will contact 85Txaggie if I need it. He also has a DE sound board (I hope it's still available) that I will be looking to acquire at some stage. I have a few things going on at the same time and again I welcome the nudging.

    Those 7-digit numeric blocks take the place of the satellite (jackpot) displays used in Taxi, Police Force and Riverboat Gambler. Those are normally connected to 20-pin ribbon cable connectors but I also routed the signals to those blocks at the bottom of the display. It allows the slave panel to support all configurations in a single panel. You don't see it in the Police Force image above but they work during the display test. I used it to separate the credit/match or status display from the main panels to make it obvious. The discrete system needs 5 individual displays and those 7-digit blocks at the bottom worked out perfectly for use as the credit/match display.

    No worries at all man! You really did me good with the AV board, so I know you'll hit me up when the time is right Just wanted to make sure I didn't miss out!

    Chris

    #475 2 years ago

    Congrats on the "One display to rule them all" @dumbass.
    Very cool!
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #476 2 years ago

    I have an assembled, non-working WPC89 sound board for sale with parts sourced from different places.
    Send me a PM with a reasonable offer.

    Please delete if not allowed.

    2021-05-12 20.09.55 (resized).jpg2021-05-12 20.09.55 (resized).jpg2021-05-12 20.10.06 (resized).jpg2021-05-12 20.10.06 (resized).jpg
    #477 2 years ago
    Quoted from SilverUnicorn:

    OK so where do we get on the list for a set of these display boards for Riverboat Gambler?

    Quick update. I had my bench rig back on the bench last night to test / verify something else. So I tested this. The satellite displays are green because those were the ones I had lying around that I could plug in to test with (leftovers from a Grand Lizard demonstration set).

    Today is second COVID vaccine dose day and I am hoping that it won't wipe me out this evening or tomorrow.

    boards_154.jpgboards_154.jpg
    boards_155.jpgboards_155.jpg

    #478 2 years ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    Today is second COVID vaccine dose day and I am hoping that it won't wipe me out this evening or tomorrow.

    I sure hope it goes well for you!. I get my second does tomorrow afternoon.

    #479 2 years ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    The satellite displays are green because those were the ones I had lying around that I could plug in to test with

    That green looks quite nice

    #480 2 years ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    Quick update. I had my bench rig back on the bench last night to test / verify something else. So I tested this. The satellite displays are green because those were the ones I had lying around that I could plug in to test with (leftovers from a Grand Lizard demonstration set).
    Today is second COVID vaccine dose day and I am hoping that it won't wipe me out this evening or tomorrow.
    [quoted image]
    [quoted image]

    This makes me happy! Best of luck with your vaccination!

    CHris

    #481 2 years ago
    #482 2 years ago

    Yep, building Victor T's WPC Sound Board was nice winter project. I initially tested it in my WH2O then moved it over to TAF. Beautiful board! https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/there-s-one-more-wpc-a-12738-sound-board
    Wally

    #483 2 years ago

    I had issues with mine about 6 months ago. Im guessing the problems with the flaky address chips have been resolved?

    #484 2 years ago

    Looks like it is time to invest in a solder bath!
    Those are some amazing work! Keep it up!

    #485 2 years ago

    Update and some comments.

    Orange/amber alphanumeric LED blocks arrived today. Finally. I plan to follow up with those that have expressed interest in displays. Don't feel obligated to wait for me though. Contact me and we'll work through things to get a work entry for you!

    This time of the year the yard work takes priority when the weather forecast and yard condition favor doing the work.

    Quoted from Crash:

    I had issues with mine about 6 months ago. Im guessing the problems with the flaky address chips have been resolved?

    Wally's suggestion (at the time) pointed me in a direction that provided resolution. Coyote also helped with figuring it out. It's almost certainly the fact I used a Fujitsu 74LS138. I stopped using those for the sound boards and now use the TI 74LS138. It is much better for compatibility.

    Quoted from RandyW:

    Looks like it is time to invest in a solder bath!
    Those are some amazing work! Keep it up!

    Thanks for the kind words and suggestion. I believe a solder vat is not big enough and a wave soldering machine is prohibitively expensive to purchase and operate. They are not designed for the hobbyist but rather the commercial warehouse sized buildings. I have looked into some options but haven't followed up with any great urgency. I'd rather be working on the next board. The next board queue has only been getting longer not shorter.

    #486 2 years ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    They are not designed for the hobbyist but rather the commercial warehouse sized buildings. I have looked into some options but haven't followed up with any great urgency.

    I would be glad to help, as I've had boards done before. (Not pinball related..) However, nowadays, you'll be paying a premium on through-hole components, sadly. Am pretty sure that unless you can find an outfit with PnP machines that can handle TH, getting it automate would be cost-prohibitive, sadly.

    (With TH components getting EOLd more and more, the day WILL come where.. things will have to shift to SMD.)

    #487 2 years ago

    DumbAss More importantly than the boards did your 2nd shot go ok and are you felling ok?

    #488 2 years ago

    DumbAss Thank you so much for your efforts. The display board in particular seem like they'll be well received.

    #489 2 years ago
    Quoted from Robotworkshop:

    DumbAss More importantly than the boards did your 2nd shot go ok and are you felling ok?

    Thank you for the concern!

    Shot #1 gave me a small episode of the chills for about two hours late in the evening. Shot #2 was uneventful - thankfully. Other than the sore shoulder from both everything was smooth for the most part. I talked with my neighbor a while ago and he said his wife was taken out for 24 hours after shot #2. It gave me a scare - a good scare that forced me to prepare a little rather than not at all.

    Quoted from Coyote:

    Am pretty sure that unless you can find an outfit with PnP machines that can handle TH, getting it automate would be cost-prohibitive, sadly.

    Unfortunately nothing beats the simplicity of pick-n-place. Through hole requires physical lead bending. It can probably be automated to some extent but there's definitely no innovation in through hole technology (i.e. nobody is investing in technology to improve manufacturing using through hole).

    Quoted from Coyote:

    (With TH components getting EOLd more and more, the day WILL come where.. things will have to shift to SMD.)

    When it comes to board design the most important thing is the schematic. The schematic defines the electrical connections and that has to be correct in order to get correct function. Component footprint, physical location and connections can be re-defined and a circuit will still work.

    I have a few prototype boards using SMT for the dot matrix display. I haven't had any time to finish it and verify it. Too many board build requests. I built these little prototypes by hand and it definitely taught me about SMT and soldering those components. If I can finish this it will give me more confidence with potentially making alternatives using SMT. My plan would be to use SMT for components that rarely, if ever, go bad. Components such as the bypass capacitor or resistors. When building boards I spent a fair amount of the time bending leads and soldering these simple components that could be switched to SMT. The only design issue with SMT is that traces must be routed to the top (front) side of the board rather than being able to route traces from either side of the board.

    #490 2 years ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    The only design issue with SMT is that traces must be routed to the top (front) side of the board rather than being able to route traces from either side of the board.

    True! However, vias exist, plus, I don't know of any assembly plant that charges extra for SMT items mounted on the back. (In fact, when desiging some CPU boards, I will often put bypass caps on the back side of the board, and use a via to go directly from one pin of the bypass cap to the VCC pin of the CPU or other chip. Shortest route possible. (And helps keep down on noise if you have a 4-layer board, and your inner layers are ground planes.) This is, of course assuming your laout/use of the board allows 2-sided assembly!

    I'm rambling, sorry. I'm all for SMT, even for you, if it means giving you more time to design more boards. Win-win!

    #491 2 years ago

    The WPC External Power Supply board works great with both 12 volt and 5 volt accessories. It has 8 output connectors. Connectors match the WPC Power Driver board connectors J116 through J118 pinouts. This is the wall wart I use to power the board.

    WPC aux1 (resized).JPGWPC aux1 (resized).JPGWPC aux2 (resized).JPGWPC aux2 (resized).JPGWPC aux3 (resized).JPGWPC aux3 (resized).JPG

    #492 2 years ago

    I can't think of any way to do it, but is there a way this can be integrated to turn off, once the power switch on the game is turned off?

    Quoted from KenLayton:

    The WPC External Power Supply board works great with both 12 volt and 5 volt accessories. It has 8 output connectors. Connectors match the WPC Power Driver board connectors J116 through J118 pinouts. This is the wall wart I use to power the board.
    [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

    #493 2 years ago
    Quoted from Gott_Lieb:

    I can't think of any way to do it, but is there a way this can be integrated to turn off, once the power switch on the game is turned off?

    Yes, re-wire the AC outlet in the switch box to only power when the game is turned on.

    #494 2 years ago
    Quoted from emsrph:

    Yes, re-wire the AC outlet in the switch box to only power when the game is turned on.

    I should have added, outside of rewiring the service outlet after the game's power switch.

    #495 2 years ago
    Quoted from Gott_Lieb:

    I should have added, outside of rewiring the service outlet after the game's power switch.

    Create a connection that plugs into the DBV harness. It output 120v, and is switched.

    #496 2 years ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    Create a connection that plugs into the DBV harness. It output 120v, and is switched.

    That would work!

    13
    #497 2 years ago

    When boards come in I don't always stop what I'm doing to try them. I do make sure the boards are all there and look correct. This last order was delayed an extra week as the fabrication factory decided to scrap one of the boards and re-make them. That was about a one week fabrication time so that's what caused the extra week. Fortunately I have a build / work queue that is so long the delay made absolutely no difference.

    Having done building, building and more building for weeks to months on end I am now trying to take some time to distract myself from the endless building. It helps to keep me sane and not burned out so it may cause a little extra build time but I think in the long run that's better than no build time because of burn out.

    I have done nothing big in design (such as a power or CPU board) as I need about one week of continuous time to make sure I stay focused and not distracted and I have yet to reach zero outstanding builds for a few months now. It only leaves me time to do small things. Here are some of those small little things.

    1. System 11 Sound Board Tester. Used to set the data byte and trigger the interrupt. Also able to reset the board.boards_156.jpgboards_156.jpg
    2. WPC Generic Proximity Sensor Board. The eddy sensor board used in Star Trek TNG, Theatre of Magic and Scared Stiff. I was asked to repair the original board so I just repro'd it at the same time.boards_157.jpgboards_157.jpg
    3. Big Guns, Space Station Interconnect Board. Not a demand item but I have a project Big Guns and I figured I'd just do it anyway. I'll probably post in those club threads about availability for those that want one. This is a little like the Black Knight 2000 Upper Playfield Interconnect Board in that it's not that hard to do.boards_158.jpgboards_158.jpg
    4. Corvette track limit and track encoder boards. The track limit board is as original. The track encoder is original with vertical mounting or redesign (like the GLM board) with horizontal mounting. These boards were done as a special request for someone who is interested in the Indianapolis 500 Illuminated Target Boards that I have available who has a Corvette but these boards are missing. It's tough for me because I don't have a machine to test in and any testing is with limited availability so turn around time is dramatically increased. I built these as prototypes because I expect to have to revise them a few times to get them right. The track encoder board has issues I still need to work through.boards_159.jpgboards_159.jpg
    5. WPC-89 pre-DCS Speaker Protection Boards. This one was a little adventure. The issue that is trying to be solved (silenced) is a documented issue. There's a "pop" when you turn the machine on. It is also possible to hear multiple little clicks during software start. These clicks are continual resets of the sound board. The biggest "pop" on my machine is when the power is cut. I got the power on pop silenced but I had to go back and figure out how to get the power off pop silenced. On the third try I got it.
      boards_160.jpgboards_160.jpg

      The system is a three board system. One satellite board to intercept the speak signals. Another satellite board to intercept the AC power. The main board that has the relay and handles the intercepted signals. Only two cables are required. I wanted to build the system using this modular approach to allow for DCS boards to be supported as well. Still (officially) a work-in-progress. I'm not sure I'm ready to declare this "final" and ready for consumption. Needs a little more stress testing and exposure.

      1. The two red boards were my first attempt - assuming I would get it right the first time. Arrogance at its finest. Obviously I was wrong. I hacked (cut and jumpered) this board significantly before making a second attempt. I changed the signal interception methods which is why the second attempt is vastly different.
      2. The top green (bare) board was the second attempt. It includes the use of an AC photocoupler but doesn't quite work properly. The other two satellite boards work properly so they remain the same.
      3. The center and lower relay board are the third attempt. It changes the AC photocoupler circuit and how the relay is energized. With a 100uF capacitor the delay is about one second at power on. I'm going to experiment a little more to see if I can make the delay a little longer.

      boards_161.jpgboards_161.jpg

      This the third (current) system as connected.

      boards_162.jpgboards_162.jpg

      And in the machine.

    I have board building to go back to, a few boards in my repair queue and some boards waiting for packing / shipping. The work queue never seems to end. The progress / distraction above does help me keep my sanity (for a bit). Finally ... I do have a small surprise coming in the next few weeks. That's all that I will say about this at the moment.

    #498 2 years ago

    I think the speaker protection board is a great idea. I believe the loud pop can't be good for the speakers. Maybe some of the cheap factory speakers survive but it gets on my nerves to hear it.

    #499 2 years ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    The work queue never seems to end.

    Been there...still there...
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #500 2 years ago

    Woo Hoo! I got my universal display board put together, and ive begun testing.

    it took me about 6 hours of soldering to get it put together. If I were going to give anyone advise about putting it together, id say to make sure the inter-board connections line up before you apply solder to them. The easiest way to do this is to solder one side in first (I did the male side) and then mate the female connectors to the male connectors. Then place the board over the top of the unsoldered female connections, and then solder them in place. This ensures the male and female connectors are installed at the same angle, and they will go together much easier when you go to do you final board assembly.

    So far the board works great in my late model F-14. I need to make up a few harnesses so I can test it with system 9 boards, and some of the System 11c boards I have around (standard williams 16 digit alpha numeric).
    0D4F8240-415C-453D-92F0-19FFD80E9770 (resized).jpeg0D4F8240-415C-453D-92F0-19FFD80E9770 (resized).jpeg19347DEB-60B7-40BB-BECE-1E0D4B9FA0A6 (resized).jpeg19347DEB-60B7-40BB-BECE-1E0D4B9FA0A6 (resized).jpeg9AA2B2DC-0C9C-4F0B-9B27-F85DACF7F7B8 (resized).jpeg9AA2B2DC-0C9C-4F0B-9B27-F85DACF7F7B8 (resized).jpegC7C58AD7-DBA6-493F-956C-4BC538D83077 (resized).jpegC7C58AD7-DBA6-493F-956C-4BC538D83077 (resized).jpeg

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