(Topic ID: 36653)
Kansas City, MO
Thanks for this list. I think you do a great job of explaining your methodology. It doesn't have a whole lot of utility, but then again, neither does pinball! 
I really enjoy your analytical posts.
Quoted from blownfuse:I know it's all in fun but what's the sense in making a list that is skewed by certian opinions? There are many pinball players/collectors that don't vote because it's silly. IMH(silly)O, here are some games that the manufacturers "phoned it in" just to get something out there to sell. Chicago Coin Dolphin/Showtime, High Flyer/Skyrider, Top 10/Gold Record, Gottlieb Duotron/Magnotron, Williams Jubilee/Darling, Bally Champ/Sky Kings, Ro Go. Any one of these games are less fun or inovative than what's on that list.
I didn't include EM games in this list because there were too many. There are so many variations on art and gameplay, while still keeping the same basic layout, that it would be hard to effectively rank them all. There's also less pricing data for EM games.
And it's true that not all of us bother to rate games online, but we all vote with our wallets, so those opinions still get in there to an extent.
Slugfest rocks.
Here's my argument for it: It has a metal ball that you hit with a bat. You try to make the ball go hit targets that give you points. Sounds like pinball to me! Just very peculiar pinball.
If you play it enough, you learn that it is a game of skill. Depending on the pitch, you can control where you hit. Add to that some batting skill, and you can own the machine.
When playing 2 player, you can control where the batter hits by what pitch you throw. Advantageous when the lights are lit up just right. When two players are playing that both know how to play, it becomes a chessmatch I compare to ping pong...or more ironically, baseball. It's pretty accurate in the depiction of it. My wife and I have some pretty epic matches. We keep it to 3 innings when playing each other and play best 2 of 3.
Brampton, ON
TX-Sector, Spectrum, Lightning, and Circus shouldn't be on any ridiculous 'F' list, imho. They're good games.
Low production numbers doesn't necessarily equal 'crap'. Don't forget, the Golden Age of Video Games had an adverse effect on pin production in the early 80's. Since there aren't many of these pins around, ebay numbers and reviews will be scarce.
Just check out what was produced in '83: http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?yr=1983&searchtype=advanced
'84 wasn't much better until late in the year when Williams Space Shuttle broke through: http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?yr=1984&searchtype=advanced
Anyway, I haven't played all of those pins listed and realize many listed are not great players, but I was pleasantly surprised by Stern Hot Hand. Fun game.
Quoted from goatdan:Whoo-hoo! Maybe we should start a VND Club thread and we can post in it. I bet we'd get 7 replies
You start it - I'll be right there... 
viperrwk
Quoted from girloveswaffles:That F***ing siren?
Yes!
Bally Ro Go and Chicago Coin Super Star (both of which I've owned) are two of the worst machines I have ever played...the Super Star was especially bad. I needed three whiskeys just to walk up to the damn thing...
Black Pyramid is actually quite fun.
Big Guns isnt bad.
Future Spa is a good player. What the hell where they thinking with the rest of the game not sure.
Lost world just sucks to play boring. I had a really nice one and let it go.
Quoted from DanQverymuch:Um, major flaw in your methodology:
Using the Top 300 ipdb list excludes all the bad games THAT DON'T EVEN CRACK THE TOP 300!!!
This.
Quoted from diskoboy:Why is X-files not on the list?
That game is 100% suck.
No way, I own it and its pretty kick ass.
Though for $1500 I'm willing to part with it
Quoted from Replay:I hate Black Pyramid and Tri-Zone, mostly because of having to play on them in tournaments. When there is a lineup consisting of IM, SM/TSPP, RFM/SW1, FH/WW, and JP I don't really want to get a matchup on Tri-Zone. (Karma will now force me to play multiple rounds on Tri-Zone this Saturday)
Heh, for me its the IM that I cringe at when I have to play that one in the tournament. Maybe one day I will last longer than 5 minutes on that game.
And Tri-Zone is actually one of my favorites there. Different strokes, right?
We're going to give the OP a thumbs down for this, but we stick thumbs up the butt to people discussing the polar opposite side of this scale? Amazing. Even better, for once in these discussions he is utilizing info compiled by US to create the list instead of just 90% of it being his own opinion.
ANYWAYS, interesting list. IMO Hollywood Heat is the most underrated game on that list, next to Spy Hunter and Future Spa. I'd try re-doing the list without price being a factor. Too many factors fudge those numbers and no one can truly agree on how much these things are really worth. Yah know?
Suggesting that the games in this list are the 'bottom of the barrel' based on lack of information and/or number produced is just nonsense. There are too many other factors to consider.
But the whole notion of labeling A's and B's or whatever is just silly anyway. Opinions, review contributions (or lack thereof), personalities, monetary agendas, and experience vary too much within the pinball community to create anything remotely credible in an 'ranking' exercise.
Waste of time.
Quoted from sosage:for once in these discussions he is utilizing info compiled by US to create the list instead of just 90% of it being his own opinion.
ANYWAYS, interesting list. IMO Hollywood Heat is the most underrated game on that list, next to Spy Hunter and Future Spa. I'd try re-doing the list without price being a factor. Too many factors fudge those numbers and no one can truly agree on how much these things are really worth. Yah know?
Thanks for noticing. As I said above, this list is a composite of information provided by the pinball community at large. The information is out there, and people reference it all the time. I didn't change it, I just brought in a new way to look at it.
As for price, I'll use two games as an example to demonstrate why I think it's important: Theater of Magic, and The Addams Family. These games are as close as two games can be to each other in my list.
Average Rating
ToM 8.383
TAF 8.419
Based on rating alone these games are nearly equal. But they made 21,270 TAF, and only 6,600 ToM. That means TAF should be significantly cheaper than ToM because they have equal game play value. However, we all know differently...
Boston Pinball Price
ToM $4578
TAF $4813
That tells me that there's a hidden factor that makes TAF much more valuable than the rating and production numbers would imply. As this thread and many other have proved, we all have emotional attachment to certain games. When we're asked to be objective, I think we rate even our favorite games objectively. However when it's time to buy a game those emotions come out to play. We'll all pay more for the games we love, and I think integrating the price into this list reflects that.
Quoted from rancegt:Boston Pinball Price
ToM $4578
TAF $4813That tells me that there's a hidden factor that makes TAF much more valuable than the rating and production numbers would imply.
The hidden factor is that 95% of TAF machines are beat to hell. 95% of TOM machines are pristine. Seriously, have you ever seen a TOM cabinet that is not in excellent condition? There are probably an equal number of nice machines out there for these two titles...actually scratch that. There are many more nice TOMs out there than TAF. In my experience at least.
Quoted from Pimp77:The hidden factor is that 95% of TAF machines are beat to hell. 95% of TOM machines are pristine. Seriously, have you ever seen a TOM cabinet that is not in excellent condition? There are probably an equal number of nice machines out there for these two titles...actually scratch that. There are many more nice TOMs out there than TAF. In my experience at least.
Assuming this is true, it should only serve to push the value of TAF lower and ToM up. That means this deepens the mystery rather than explaining it.
Quoted from indypinhead:DE Batman should be on the list
Boooo!!!!!
I'll start up a D.E. Batman fan club!
Quoted from rancegt:Assuming this is true, it should only serve to push the value of TAF lower and ToM up. That means this deepens the mystery rather than explaining it.
Not necessarily...the fact that nice TOMs are plentiful will drive its value down. Nice TAFs command a premium though since they are rare. I haven't seen many TAFs for sale lately, but have seen plenty of TOMs.
Quoted from JesseB:where's Raven on this list?
Raven's an A game. 
Quoted from Pimp77:Not necessarily...the fact that nice TOMs are plentiful will drive its value down. Nice TAFs command a premium though since they are rare. I haven't seen many TAFs for sale lately, but have seen plenty of TOMs.
TAF rare? they made a shit ton of those, they are far from rare, they are the polar opposite of rare... and far form a super game..
Quoted from Schusler:Boooo!!!!!
I'll start up a D.E. Batman fan club!
I'm in!
Quoted from Gerry:TAF rare? they made a shit ton of those, they are far from rare, they are the polar opposite of rare... and far form a super game..
To steal from JJ on Spiderman: Read better!
NICE TAFs are rare...beater TAFs are plentiful. Nice being the key word there. On the other hand, nice TOMs are plentiful and beater TOMs are rare. I'm not sure if I've ever seen a "beater" TOM. Even that recent TOM that was in a fire was pretty nice.
Ive seen plenty of beater ToM's.
granted the cabs hold up well if not all gouged up, but the PF's can get pretty ratty, as can eveything else on the PF...
TAF is "yes" a far more beaten to death game in general.
There are a ton of nice TAF's as well as a bunch of Beat ones... cause they made a million of them.
And as guys keep restoring those beaters the # of nice ones only keeps growing..
TAF is a way overpriced pin IMO... in any condition..
Let's not forget perspective. The bottom line, which has been lost, is that games were built to SWALLOW QUARTERS. The faster the better. Going back in time, a game like LOTR would never make the route (on location). Today's game are built to grace someone's living room. To compare older routed games to the recent phenomena of new pinball games designed directly for home use is a bit strange.
Quoted from GreyScale:I'm in!
Me too. I've got a soft spot for DE Batman -- it was one of my hometown machines growing up when I was first getting into pins.
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