(Topic ID: 182576)

Drop target sticker peeling prevention

By Antennaejim

4 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 24 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by PinScott
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 4 years ago

Does anyone have any tricks to keep the drop target stickers from peeling away as they slide down into the assembly? I have brand new stickers on an original black knight and I have had to replace them twice in the past month or so. They just start to dog ear on the bottom and then they interfere with the operation of the target itself. The machine didn't have the decals when I bought it. I suspect the prior owner had the same issue.

#2 4 years ago

Mylar? I feel like this is my answer to everything recently. Haha

#3 4 years ago

Scuffing up the surface of the target face so the adhesive has something to bite on helps...then mylar like above. The trick is not scuffing the edges where the decal doesn't cover.

#4 4 years ago

I put a coat of varathane over the top (brushed on from a can). Added benefit is that you can aggressively clean the target face without affecting the decal. I've got machines that I did this to 5-6 years ago, and the drop targets look like they did the day I put the decals on.

#5 4 years ago

Make sure to clean the targets well before applying new decals and always give them a good wipe with iso alcohol after cleaning and then apply decals. Should help.

#6 4 years ago
Quoted from yendor0:

I put a coat of varathane over the top (brushed on from a can). Added benefit is that you can aggressively clean the target face without affecting the decal. I've got machines that I did this to 5-6 years ago, and the drop targets look like they did the day I put the decals on.

The varathane hasn't yellowed over that time?

#7 4 years ago

If you're talking about the edges peeling you can use either a sealitpen (acrylic clear coat) or 3M 3950 edge sealer (acrylic/vinyl solution in xylene--test to make sure the xylene won't damage the graphics). Both of these products are commonly used by professional decal installers.

amazon.com link »

amazon.com link »

These can also be used on cabinet decals.

#8 4 years ago

I print the DT stickers on Avery Permanent sticker paper, then cover in Mylar.

Avery sticks better to glossy surface than rough, beware.

#9 4 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

If you're talking about the edges peeling you can use either a sealitpen (acrylic clear coat) or 3M 3950 edge sealer (acrylic/vinyl solution in xylene--test to make sure the xylene won't damage the graphics). Both of these products are commonly used by professional decal installers.
amazon.com link »
amazon.com link »
These can also be used on cabinet decals.

Nice I will try this and thank you all for your help

#10 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Avery sticks better to glossy surface than rough, beware.

This is completely true. Almost all decals will adhere to a smooth surface better than a rough one. This is not paint we are talking about. I am a professional decal installer with almost 30 years under my belt. Trust me on this.

#11 4 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

If you're talking about the edges peeling you can use either a sealitpen (acrylic clear coat) or 3M 3950 edge sealer

This will help with paper decals but not so much with vinyl. Vinyl ALWAYS shrinks over time after application. How much greatly depends on the material being used. Some a fair bit, other just slightly and once it shrinks, it will create a small gap between the edge seal and the vinyl rendering it pretty much useless. Seen it happen a million times.

#12 4 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

This is completely true. Almost all decals will adhere to a smooth surface better than a rough one. This is not paint we are talking about. I am a professional decal installer with almost 30 years under my belt. Trust me on this.

Quoted from SUPERBEE:

Avery sticks better to glossy surface than rough, beware.

In my experience, I must disagree. I have seen too many decals just peel away at the tops and bottoms because the adhesive had only a shiny-flat surface to stick to. I guess it's like backglass delamination. I've seen it over and over on those 80s WMS drop targets. Scuffing them up gives the adhesive little nooks and crannies to grab aholt of. Just my personal experience.

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

Scuffing them up gives the adhesive little nooks and crannies to grab aholt of. Just my personal experience.

I agree to disagree. By scuffing it up, you are actually lessening the surface area the adhesive has to stick to. Every scratch you make when scuffing is an area that the adhesive will not touch but just float over. Unlike paint that will flow into them scratch channels creating a stronger bond, decal adhesive will not.

#14 4 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

I have seen too many decals just peel away at the tops and bottoms because the adhesive had only a shiny-flat surface to stick to.

This is usually due to either poor quality and or old decals (even newly bought decals can be old) and the adhesive has dried up just a little (maybe not even enough to physically notice) or so often the target has not been cleaned properly beforehand. Wiping down after cleaning with iso alcohol makes a huge difference.

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

I agree to disagree. By scuffing it up, you are actually lessening the surface area the adhesive has to stick to. Every scratch you make when scuffing is an area that the adhesive will not touch but just float over. Unlike paint that will flow into them scratch channels creating a stronger bond, decal adhesive will not.

Heh...arguing about stickers...

I don't think the scratches are that deep The adhesive gets pressed into the scratches when you mount it.

#16 4 years ago

I don't think anyone is arguing here. Just debating. . Like I said, I've been a professional sign and graphic installer for almost 30 years. Take it for what it's worth.

#17 4 years ago
Quoted from Fytr:

The varathane hasn't yellowed over that time?

No. Varathane clear water-based polyurethane (or Minwax water-based polycrylic) doesn't yellow over time. Same stuff a lot of people have used for clearcoating playfields.

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from yendor0:

No. Varathane clear water-based polyurethane (or Minwax water-based polycrylic) doesn't yellow over time. Same stuff a lot of people have used for clearcoating playfields.

Yes, water based Varathane DOES yellow over time.

Just because it says "non-yellowing formula" on the can, does not mean it won't yellow, it will.

Here is a water based Varathane cleared playfield:

49bf2512d942e7d509e6ebc99f163e6aa69b4806 (resized).jpg

Here is where you scrape off the Varathane to see the true white paint underneath:

52b5f5e417aa5bbfaf70e57dc9daf2bdbd840f5d (resized).jpg

Don't let them lie to you, Varathane is garbage.

#19 4 years ago

I have a related question:
The cabinet decal on the my IMVE is starting to lift on some of the edges. What is the best product / method to resecure without replacing the decal?
I have also noticed decal bubbling around the flipper buttons. Should I do something other than add mylar to this area?

#20 4 years ago
Quoted from PinScott:

I have also noticed decal bubbling around the flipper buttons. Should I do something other than add mylar to this area?

Try removing the button (nut on the inside of the cab), then GENTLY warm the area with a hair dryer press the bubble out, towards the button hole.

Allow to cool, reinstall the button - DON'T OVER TIGHTEN the nut this time.

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from PinScott:

I have a related question:
The cabinet decal on the my IMVE is starting to lift on some of the edges. What is the best product / method to resecure without replacing the decal?

Pick up a can of 3M super77 spray glue at home depot. Spray some out onto something (inside of the lid wil work) and use something like a popsicle stick or toothpick if it is a really small corner and lightly coat the back of the decal where it has lifted and also on the cabinet. Wait about 5 mins and then squeegie it back down. Just make sure both sides are coated evenly and don't use too much.

#22 4 years ago
Quoted from yendor0:

No. Varathane clear water-based polyurethane (or Minwax water-based polycrylic) doesn't yellow over time. Same stuff a lot of people have used for clearcoating playfields.

Quoted from vid1900:

Yes, water based Varathane DOES yellow over time.
Just because it says "non-yellowing formula" on the can, does not mean it won't yellow, it will.
...

I like the idea of painting on a protective coating that would seal the decal under it on targets, etc. Maybe the yellowing is dependent on UV exposure, and in any case, the risk of a yellowed target is not as serious as a complete playfield.

I've tried using Mylar in the past to seal target decals, but it never sticks well and always has little air bubbles under it. I live in a dry climate so maybe the mylar glue is dried out already.

Any suggestions for something (else) that can be brushed on to protect the decal and keep it sealed to the plastic?

#23 4 years ago

Stick the Mylar to the decal before you apply it to the DT.

If you still somehow get an air bubble, Just poke it with the very tip of a safety pin.

DT stickers are going to wear, no matter what you do, so I would not worry too much about them, really

#24 4 years ago

Thank you for the advice regarding the IMVE decals Superbee and Vid1900.
Much appreciated!

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