(Topic ID: 225284)

Dragonfist Club


By cottonm4

1 year ago



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There are 167 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.
#151 10 days ago

Extra ball fix is in beta test right now for DF. Added a couple other options, one to carry the bonus ladder over, one to step the bonus up like the original software did before the first fix.

The first fix where the description didn't match the manual might have been a bit hasty - it could be interpreted in two ways, especially after disassembling the code. The text in the manual reads "The bonus points are acquired by knocking down individual drop targets" - which led me to believe (10 years ago or so) that the awarding of a bonus step on only the lit X bank was incorrect, leading to the first fix (on ipdb) of adding a bonus step regardless of which drop bank was lit.

Of course, there are other ways to build bonus NOT covered in the manual - lit standups award them as do the inlanes.

Back on track, there is also code in the original software to ALWAYS add a bonus step on a drop target, AFTER 7x is lit. So, with the first fix in place, if you got 7x, you would get TWO bonus steps per drop. That's called me introducing a bug.... I'm PRETTY sure I got IPDB the updated version after that, with JUST one step per regardless of multiplier max status. However, the fact that it was coded like that means that I now think that they INTENDED it to only be on the lit bank, and just neglected to stick it in the manual. The manual was probably type set ages before the game went into production. Hence, why I added it back into the code via a dip option (I eliminated the max credits option, it's always 99, to get some free dip switches.)

So, what OTHER things do owners think should be considered for the code? I think carrying the bonus ladder over is an interesting variant, because you can still turn off the bonus multiplier carrying over but still reward the player for doing well. (The bonus multiplier ends up trumping almost anything else if you carry it over and get 5x-7x and rip the spinner, there's where your points are going to come from. If you carry the ladder over instead there's more incentive to keep shooting the drop banks down).

The extra ball bug happens because the game has too many ways to add balls (this was later stern and the 'add-a-ball' option frenzy, which in certain combinations can totally break Split Second - it's possible through an innocent setting of dip switches on SS to get endless extra balls). The fix essentially removes extra balls, but needs to be tested as well with extra balls disabled, specials enabled, so that you can still get specials. That I am still working on.

Oh, and the end of game animation/sound effect where you can't actually restart the game in the middle, has been eliminated. That one always drove me crazy, because as all dragonfist owners know, it's not like the game takes more than a minute or 2, and you want to drop kick the credit button and fist again.

Oddly, the playfield plastic everyone has that's broken was intact on mine. Moot point since CPR can repro them on demand now.

I'm seriously considering adding a drop bank sweep bonus like flight 2k has, but not actually SCORE anything extra - just make that cool 25k completion sound from Big Game (I love that sound). Oh, and do SOMETHING about the horrible background sound. The thump-thump-thump component of it isn't too bad, but the pacmany-type siren sound has gotta go.

Oh, and speech, but only if I have an extra VSU100 laying around.....

#152 10 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

Extra ball fix is in beta test right now for DF. Added a couple other options, one to carry the bonus ladder over, one to step the bonus up like the original software did before the first fix.
The first fix where the description didn't match the manual might have been a bit hasty - it could be interpreted in two ways, especially after disassembling the code. The text in the manual reads "The bonus points are acquired by knocking down individual drop targets" - which led me to believe (10 years ago or so) that the awarding of a bonus step on only the lit X bank was incorrect, leading to the first fix (on ipdb) of adding a bonus step regardless of which drop bank was lit.
Of course, there are other ways to build bonus NOT covered in the manual - lit standups award them as do the inlanes.
Back on track, there is also code in the original software to ALWAYS add a bonus step on a drop target, AFTER 7x is lit. So, with the first fix in place, if you got 7x, you would get TWO bonus steps per drop. That's called me introducing a bug.... I'm PRETTY sure I got IPDB the updated version after that, with JUST one step per regardless of multiplier max status. However, the fact that it was coded like that means that I now think that they INTENDED it to only be on the lit bank, and just neglected to stick it in the manual. The manual was probably type set ages before the game went into production. Hence, why I added it back into the code via a dip option (I eliminated the max credits option, it's always 99, to get some free dip switches.)
So, what OTHER things do owners think should be considered for the code? I think carrying the bonus ladder over is an interesting variant, because you can still turn off the bonus multiplier carrying over but still reward the player for doing well. (The bonus multiplier ends up trumping almost anything else if you carry it over and get 5x-7x and rip the spinner, there's where your points are going to come from. If you carry the ladder over instead there's more incentive to keep shooting the drop banks down).
The extra ball bug happens because the game has too many ways to add balls (this was later stern and the 'add-a-ball' option frenzy, which in certain combinations can totally break Split Second - it's possible through an innocent setting of dip switches on SS to get endless extra balls). The fix essentially removes extra balls, but needs to be tested as well with extra balls disabled, specials enabled, so that you can still get specials. That I am still working on.
Oh, and the end of game animation/sound effect where you can't actually restart the game in the middle, has been eliminated. That one always drove me crazy, because as all dragonfist owners know, it's not like the game takes more than a minute or 2, and you want to drop kick the credit button and fist again.
Oddly, the playfield plastic everyone has that's broken was intact on mine. Moot point since CPR can repro them on demand now.
I'm seriously considering adding a drop bank sweep bonus like flight 2k has, but not actually SCORE anything extra - just make that cool 25k completion sound from Big Game (I love that sound). Oh, and do SOMETHING about the horrible background sound. The thump-thump-thump component of it isn't too bad, but the pacmany-type siren sound has gotta go.
Oh, and speech, but only if I have an extra VSU100 laying around.....

Am I understanding this correctly? Are you making some code changes we can apply to out Dragonfists? And you will be able to change the
thump-thump sound to something a little more user friendly?

#153 10 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Am I understanding this correctly? Are you making some code changes we can apply to out Dragonfists? And you will be able to change the
thump-thump sound to something a little more user friendly?

Yes, that's the plan. Although out of the background sound components (the thump and the siren) I like the thump but not the siren. I am initially going to see if I can just remove the siren and leave the thump.

There would be some stuff removed to make space for updates - the long light show thing at the end where you can't restart the game until its over, for instance. Unless you put a weebly board in or do some mods to the mpu200 to allow larger romspace. There's a slight bit of room available 'stock' but more is needed for any other custom stuff (speech wouldn't be too bad since most of that romspace is on the vsu100 board)

#154 10 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

Extra ball fix is in beta test right now for DF. Added a couple other options, one to carry the bonus ladder over, one to step the bonus up like the original software did before the first fix.
The first fix where the description didn't match the manual might have been a bit hasty - it could be interpreted in two ways, especially after disassembling the code. The text in the manual reads "The bonus points are acquired by knocking down individual drop targets" - which led me to believe (10 years ago or so) that the awarding of a bonus step on only the lit X bank was incorrect, leading to the first fix (on ipdb) of adding a bonus step regardless of which drop bank was lit.
Of course, there are other ways to build bonus NOT covered in the manual - lit standups award them as do the inlanes.
Back on track, there is also code in the original software to ALWAYS add a bonus step on a drop target, AFTER 7x is lit. So, with the first fix in place, if you got 7x, you would get TWO bonus steps per drop. That's called me introducing a bug.... I'm PRETTY sure I got IPDB the updated version after that, with JUST one step per regardless of multiplier max status. However, the fact that it was coded like that means that I now think that they INTENDED it to only be on the lit bank, and just neglected to stick it in the manual. The manual was probably type set ages before the game went into production. Hence, why I added it back into the code via a dip option (I eliminated the max credits option, it's always 99, to get some free dip switches.)
So, what OTHER things do owners think should be considered for the code? I think carrying the bonus ladder over is an interesting variant, because you can still turn off the bonus multiplier carrying over but still reward the player for doing well. (The bonus multiplier ends up trumping almost anything else if you carry it over and get 5x-7x and rip the spinner, there's where your points are going to come from. If you carry the ladder over instead there's more incentive to keep shooting the drop banks down).
The extra ball bug happens because the game has too many ways to add balls (this was later stern and the 'add-a-ball' option frenzy, which in certain combinations can totally break Split Second - it's possible through an innocent setting of dip switches on SS to get endless extra balls). The fix essentially removes extra balls, but needs to be tested as well with extra balls disabled, specials enabled, so that you can still get specials. That I am still working on.
Oh, and the end of game animation/sound effect where you can't actually restart the game in the middle, has been eliminated. That one always drove me crazy, because as all dragonfist owners know, it's not like the game takes more than a minute or 2, and you want to drop kick the credit button and fist again.
Oddly, the playfield plastic everyone has that's broken was intact on mine. Moot point since CPR can repro them on demand now.
I'm seriously considering adding a drop bank sweep bonus like flight 2k has, but not actually SCORE anything extra - just make that cool 25k completion sound from Big Game (I love that sound). Oh, and do SOMETHING about the horrible background sound. The thump-thump-thump component of it isn't too bad, but the pacmany-type siren sound has gotta go.
Oh, and speech, but only if I have an extra VSU100 laying around.....

You must be the man from that Enrique Iglesias song...you are my hero! Or perhaps I should go with Foo Fighters that would probably sound better...There goes my Hero...making pinball classics great!

I think a Sweep award of double dropped bank value would be fair and not really drastically change the way the game scores. I also agree that bonus carrying over at the 10k intervals would probably be a good idea and give players multiple ways to play the game then with bonus approach, or spinner approach. And absolutely eliminating all extra balls would be great and make this game much better for tournament use!

#155 10 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

Yes, that's the plan. Although out of the background sound components (the thump and the siren) I like the thump but not the siren. I am initially going to see if I can just remove the siren and leave the thump.
There would be some stuff removed to make space for updates - the long light show thing at the end where you can't restart the game until its over, for instance. Unless you put a weebly board in or do some mods to the mpu200 to allow larger romspace. There's a slight bit of room available 'stock' but more is needed for any other custom stuff (speech wouldn't be too bad since most of that romspace is on the vsu100 board)

Also I would say make the code update based on the weebly board space, I'm happy to contribute to getting you a weebly board for the project if that would encourage it. I think anyone wanting to upgrade their rules in the machine should be willing to upgrade to the weebly board as well, that way you are free to modify as you / other owners see fit.

Sincerely thank you for doing this I love my Dragonfist. I just sold my seawitch because the rules are similar, and Dragonfist layout is just so much better.

#156 10 days ago
Quoted from Tsskinne:

I think anyone wanting to upgrade their rules in the machine should be willing to upgrade to the weebly board as well

Yup, I own a Dragonfist and just bought a weebly board.

#157 10 days ago
Quoted from Tsskinne:

Also I would say make the code update based on the weebly board space, I'm happy to contribute to getting you a weebly board for the project if that would encourage it. I think anyone wanting to upgrade their rules in the machine should be willing to upgrade to the weebly board as well, that way you are free to modify as you / other owners see fit.
Sincerely thank you for doing this I love my Dragonfist. I just sold my seawitch because the rules are similar, and Dragonfist layout is just so much better.

Oh, I have plenty of weebly boards. Thank Andrew when you buy the board make sure to let him know that you're buying his board because you wanted the flexibility of the extra space. It's probably not convenient for him to leave the extra rom/ram in the design, and I appreciate it every day as I do crazy things with the boards they were never intended to by Bally/stern.

Probably the only thing I'm looking for is a single Red drop to replace one that snapped at its first party debut.... but I'm incredibly lazy so it would probably never get into the game anyway.

#158 10 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

Oh, I have plenty of weebly boards. Thank Andrew when you buy the board make sure to let him know that you're buying his board because you wanted the flexibility of the extra space. It's probably not convenient for him to leave the extra rom/ram in the design, and I appreciate it every day as I do crazy things with the boards they were never intended to by Bally/stern.
Probably the only thing I'm looking for is a single Red drop to replace one that snapped at its first party debut.... but I'm incredibly lazy so it would probably never get into the game anyway.

I'm converting my center bank to white because I had a red break, happy to donate my red to you whenever I get around to pulling it from the machine.

#159 10 days ago
Quoted from Tsskinne:

I'm converting my center bank to white because I had a red break, happy to donate my red to you whenever I get around to pulling it from the machine.

Can you put up a picture of a red one, please? I would like to see the shade of red that it is. I want to see if the white ones can take color dye like the nylon plastics nuts.

#160 9 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Can you put up a picture of a red one, please? I would like to see the shade of red that it is. I want to see if the white ones can take color dye like the nylon plastics nuts.

I'll see if I still have the broken one laying in the cabinet if not I'll do my best to take some shots of them in the game

#161 9 days ago

Bug hunt continues. When you beat the hstd, stock code calls for a SPEECH callout! But, it's using data for a regular sound board call.

#162 9 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

Bug hunt continues. When you beat the hstd, stock code calls for a SPEECH callout! But, it's using data for a regular sound board call.

I wish I had your electronics knowledge.

#163 9 days ago

Less electronics, more software.... and pretty specific at that. Put me in front of anything modern and I'll give more dumb looks than you can imagine. Kind of stinks since it's not marketable in any concrete way.

#164 9 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

Less electronics, more software.... and pretty specific at that. Put me in front of anything modern and I'll give more dumb looks than you can imagine. Kind of stinks since it's not marketable in any concrete way.

I reported a problem on my machine that may be unique to me but if you are looking into issues may as well see if you notice anything in the code that could cause it.

Start a game, X is on the upper right drop bank. I knock down lets say the two lower drops but not the top one. I don't collect my bonus multiplier or bank value and drain. Next ball, drops reset, x remails there, I plunge and the top drop is hit and drops, bank believes I have cleared it, they reset, I get my bonus x and value for bank, and the x moves to center drops. Essentially although the drops reset the mpu still seems to think those targets have been taken down again. I've checked the switches and they are adjusted properly and I replaced the diodes on all of those switchs. I have even swapped between a Weebly and Altek board an the issue persists. I'm planning to redo all the connectors next, but figured it would be worth checking in the code as well. I can take a video if that would help make things clearer as well.

#165 9 days ago
Quoted from Tsskinne:

I reported a problem on my machine that may be unique to me but if you are looking into issues may as well see if you notice anything in the code that could cause it.
Start a game, X is on the upper right drop bank. I knock down lets say the two lower drops but not the top one. I don't collect my bonus multiplier or bank value and drain. Next ball, drops reset, x remails there, I plunge and the top drop is hit and drops, bank believes I have cleared it, they reset, I get my bonus x and value for bank, and the x moves to center drops. Essentially although the drops reset the mpu still seems to think those targets have been taken down again. I've checked the switches and they are adjusted properly and I replaced the diodes on all of those switchs. I have even swapped between a Weebly and Altek board an the issue persists. I'm planning to redo all the connectors next, but figured it would be worth checking in the code as well. I can take a video if that would help make things clearer as well.

I did actually look at the code I think you posted this previously - if you can get it consistent, take a video of it. There's actually something smart in DF's code - a thread that runs every once in a while to make sure that any drops missed are caught. (It compares what it thinks have dropped, to what is currently dropped, and if it finds any discrepancies, it re-triggers the drop switch virtually). I've no doubt that this is related to this issue. Otherwise, might end up being a mystery, because on each target reset, the drops are specifically masked out as re-triggering.

I have had this behavior on my machine too, only with the upper right bank, and only very rarely. I suspect the fix will be to make the periodic code not only check for missing downed targets, but ensure that the flags for downed drops are cleared when the target is UP (which it currently does NOT do.)

It would be helpful if your machine does this semi-regularly to make any fixes testable. Do you have an eprom burner and 27512 eproms? That would be the easiest burn to do, depending on your weebly board revision. Unfortunately due to Alltek's recalcitrant position re: updating their all-in-one eprom with custom code it would not be possible to test it on that board.

#166 8 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

I did actually look at the code I think you posted this previously - if you can get it consistent, take a video of it. There's actually something smart in DF's code - a thread that runs every once in a while to make sure that any drops missed are caught. (It compares what it thinks have dropped, to what is currently dropped, and if it finds any discrepancies, it re-triggers the drop switch virtually). I've no doubt that this is related to this issue. Otherwise, might end up being a mystery, because on each target reset, the drops are specifically masked out as re-triggering.
I have had this behavior on my machine too, only with the upper right bank, and only very rarely. I suspect the fix will be to make the periodic code not only check for missing downed targets, but ensure that the flags for downed drops are cleared when the target is UP (which it currently does NOT do.)
It would be helpful if your machine does this semi-regularly to make any fixes testable. Do you have an eprom burner and 27512 eproms? That would be the easiest burn to do, depending on your weebly board revision. Unfortunately due to Alltek's recalcitrant position re: updating their all-in-one eprom with custom code it would not be possible to test it on that board.

Yep I have a spare Weebly board in stock and I have a friend in town with a burner. I have to go pick up a machine today after work but will try to take some video tonight. I'll shoot you a PM and see what I can get you for video. Thanks for confirming that I'm not crazy!

#167 8 days ago
Quoted from Tsskinne:

I'm converting my center bank to white because I had a red break, happy to donate my red to you whenever I get around to pulling it from the machine.

I've been hunting for red targets for a while and sorta gave up. I had enough to do the outer targets on each bank with 1 to spare.
My solution is going to be to add a single white stern target with a red "S" or lightning bolt in the middle of each bank and keep red on either side. I figure this might look cool since the center target is the object for extra ball anyway. It will also keep all 3 banks looking the same.

I'll post pics once I get to it.

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