Doctor Who
Bally, 1992When I boot the game the opto popper , switch 31, continues to fire. Test report says check opto popper
I replaced both optos and it still doesn’t register in test.
I checked/ reseated j6 on the opto board and no change
All the other switches test correctly
How do i rule out opto board vs cpu
Quoted from topkat:How do i rule out opto board vs cpu
This might help - https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Williams_WPC#Opto_Switches
LTG : )
Quoted from LTG:This might help - https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Williams_WPC#Opto_Switches
LTG : )
Thanks.
Is there a similar way to test the 10 opt board?
Pinwiki has a good write up on the board itself, but not a way, that I see, to test the board?
Start at the MPU and work forward. I always look at my MPU connectors, in your case J206-3 and J209-1
Lloyd has you on the right path with PinWiki
Quoted from topkat:All the other switches test correctly
How do i rule out opto board vs cpu
The CPU board only sees rows and columns. It does not see individual switches. If this switch is the only misbehaving switch then it's not likely to be the CPU board. You can rule it out using the procedure documented in the Pinwiki.
To differentiate between the opto pair and the state detection on the opto board follow the procedure documented in the Pinwiki (linked above) under the topic "Test the LM339 comparators". If you have replaced the opto pair AND the CPU board sees all the other switches in the same row (1) and column (3) then it's most likely to be isolated to the opto board.
These things come to mind:
There could be other things as well.
Quoted from DumbAss:The CPU board only sees rows and columns. It does not see individual switches. If this switch is the only misbehaving switch then it's not likely to be the CPU board. You can rule it out using the procedure documented in the Pinwiki.
To differentiate between the opto pair and the state detection on the opto board follow the procedure documented in the Pinwiki (linked above) under the topic "Test the LM339 comparators". If you have replaced the opto pair AND the CPU board sees all the other switches in the same row (1) and column (3) then it's most likely to be isolated to the opto board.
These things come to mind:It is possible that if the opto board connector (J3) is the last connection in the daisy chain (parallel wiring) and the wires are loose (not making proper contact) or disconnected. It could also be the connection at the previous point in the daisy chain has come loose.
It is possible that you have wired the receiver (CE) incorrectly or the phototransistor installed on that board is "reversed" (i.e. C leg installed in E hole and visa versa).
It is possible the LM339 unit responsible for the state detection is damaged and not working correctly.There could be other things as well.
Where is your test rig for optos when he needs it?
Quoted from DumbAss:The CPU board only sees rows and columns. It does not see individual switches. If this switch is the only misbehaving switch then it's not likely to be the CPU board. You can rule it out using the procedure documented in the Pinwiki.
To differentiate between the opto pair and the state detection on the opto board follow the procedure documented in the Pinwiki (linked above) under the topic "Test the LM339 comparators". If you have replaced the opto pair AND the CPU board sees all the other switches in the same row (1) and column (3) then it's most likely to be isolated to the opto board.
These things come to mind:It is possible that if the opto board connector (J3) is the last connection in the daisy chain (parallel wiring) and the wires are loose (not making proper contact) or disconnected. It could also be the connection at the previous point in the daisy chain has come loose.
It is possible that you have wired the receiver (CE) incorrectly or the phototransistor installed on that board is "reversed" (i.e. C leg installed in E hole and visa versa).
It is possible the LM339 unit responsible for the state detection is damaged and not working correctly.There could be other things as well.
Thanks.. To be sure I am providing the correct info. That opto switch always registers open. Thats why I assumed at first it was a bad opto, but even after replacing them I cant get the opto to register closed.
I will check all the items listed above..
Quoted from eyeamred2u:Where is your test rig for optos when he needs it?
The opto testing boards are available. It's buried within my thread so it can be difficult to find. I don't push my stuff. I believe that people will find it if they want to find it. I believe (with 150% bias) that they are better products but want people to do their own research and come to their own conclusions.
Optos often cause the most grief to people which is why I tried to make some tools to try to help differentiate the causes. The reproduction boards have the diagnostic differentiation built into them AND they dissipate much less heat which is the best of both worlds.
Quoted from topkat:I posted a photo of a 10 opto board.
I hope that's not the board you received because it looks like the key pins have not been cut. That board is also the vertical mount version (wider) and not the (original narrower) horizontal mount version.
Quoted from topkat:If remove the J3 connector can I do the same test procedure as the 7?
The 10-opto board services 7x switches in column 7 and 3x switches in column 3. You can apply the procedure for the 7-opto board in the Pinwiki for the 7x switches in column 7. For the 3x switches in column 3 you will need to apply the electrical procedure for J4/J5/J6. These individual connectors contain the AK/CE pairs for each individual opto pair. J6 specifically corresponds to switch 31 (according to the manual).
Quoted from DumbAss:I hope that's not the board you received because it looks like the key pins have not been cut. That board is also the vertical mount version (wider) and not the (original narrower) horizontal mount version.
The 10-opto board services 7x switches in column 7 and 3x switches in column 3. You can apply the procedure for the 7-opto board in the Pinwiki for the 7x switches in column 7. For the 3x switches in column 3 you will need to apply the electrical procedure for J4/J5/J6. These individual connectors contain the AK/CE pairs for each individual opto pair. J6 specifically corresponds to switch 31 (according to the manual).
Thank you..
Thats not my board, I just grabbed a photo since I was at work and wanted to know what the difference would be
Quoted from DumbAss:The opto testing boards are available. It's buried within my thread so it can be difficult to find. I don't push my stuff.
I know you don't, I just think your boards and test rigs are amazing. I have to buy the opto test rig for myself.
I have had several issues in the past with Switch 31 Opto popper, so these are my uneducated ramblings. First I had a wire that goes to the Tardis light that would block the Opto when the playfield was down but not when it was propped up. A ty-wrap fixed that. Second, the plastic cup that pushes the ball up was old cracked plastic and got caught returning, also blocking Opto. Replaced it with new part. If lived closer, I could loan you my DumbAss Opto tester that I built from his kit. As a shameless plug, I am including a picture of the 10 Opto board, that I just built from him as well. J6 runs directly from the 10 Opto board to the Opto Popper with 4 wires. I replaced the IDC's with a molex 5 pin plugs. I also included a picture of the Opto popper that I rebuilt.
DSCF3078 (resized).JPGDSCF3084 (resized).JPGDSCF3087 (resized).JPGQuoted from Tophervette:I have had several issues in the past with Switch 31 Opto popper, so these are my uneducated ramblings. First I had a wire that goes to the Tardis light that would block the Opto when the playfield was down but not when it was propped up. A ty-wrap fixed that. Second, the plastic cup that pushes the ball up was old cracked plastic and got caught returning, also blocking Opto. Replaced it with new part. If lived closer, I could loan you my DumbAss Opto tester that I built from his kit. As a shameless plug, I am including a picture of the 10 Opto board, that I just built from him as well. J6 runs directly from the 10 Opto board to the Opto Popper with 4 wires. I replaced the IDC's with a molex 5 pin plugs. I also included a picture of the Opto popper that I rebuilt.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
I pulled the bracket that has the optos when I replaced them. Even with the new optos there is no registration when I try to activate it. Its as though the switch doesnt exist. Dumbass gave me a good list of things to run through, and I will try those next. But I guess if I had the opto tester Id know if the optos were working and if the opto board was sensing it. If I come up empty I will have to get one. Thanks
topkat - looking at the connectors on the board. If you have voltmeter, set it to 20 volts. Locate Pin 9 on connector J1 and put black lead (GND/ground) into it. Then according to pin wiki. Put the red lead into any of the 4 Popper Opto wires on J6. They are paired (Green-White) and (Grey-Black). They should all read 12volts with the game on. Then use a piece of paper to block either opto to prevent the LED beam from being received by the transmitter. The transmitter will still read 12volts on either wire, but the with the receiver blocked one of the wires on that side will not have 12 volts. That is if they are working and the 10 Opto board is not fried. Then for giggles and grins. Measure the voltage on the other J4 and J5 connectors, which should all be getting 12 volts or what ever voltage your Power board is sending out.
I will try this theory out myself when I have personal time.
Ok I removed j206 and j208. I used a jumper and all the switches show up when activated.
I believe this rules out the mpu..?
OK - I opened my working game up, lifted the Playfield. Put the black lead on Multimeter on 20 DC Volts onto pin 9 on J1 - Ground. The following voltages showed up with game on. They did fluctuate up and down by .2 volts while game was in attract mode flashing GI bulbs.
J6 - Green (E) 12.6V, White (C) 12.38V, Grey (R) -0.0, Black (K) 1.27
J4 - Green (E) 12.2V, White (C) 12.5V, Grey (R) -0.0, Black (K) 1.27
I played a game immediately after and no errors, with VUK working perfectly. Hope that helps.
Quoted from topkat:I have time tomorrow to check all that has been mentioned. I did take a quick look at connector 206 on the cpu and pin 3 (which corresponds to the row for sw31) looks a little strange to me. Can’t imagine it’s something that easy[quoted image]
Kinda looks like corrosion from acid damage off if the MPU.
Quoted from eyeamred2u:Kinda looks like corrosion from acid damage off if the MPU.
That connector definitely needs replacement, but the rest of the switch register in that row. I had a terrible time repinning the .1 pins. I got them crimped but couldn’t get a good fit in the housing. I’ve done a number of the .156 and they turned out well.
I think I am going to with a new idc instead because some of my pins are suspect.
Quoted from topkat:That connector definitely needs replacement, but the rest of the switch register in that row. I had a terrible time repinning the .1 pins. I got them crimped but couldn’t get a good fit in the housing. I’ve done a number of the .156 and they turned out well.
I think I am going to with a new idc instead because some of my pins are suspect.
Always change out the housing and pins. The .1 can be tough, I use magnifying glasses when I repin, so I can see my work.
Hopefully this will help someone else in the future.
It turned out the new opto set I installed were faulty. That led me on a goose chase assuming it was something more involved. So Always make sure the new optos you install are functional.
Thanks to @dumbass’s new opto board I was able to determine the problem was from my optos and nothing more.
Appreciate all those who chimed in. Next up to try and get the demogorgan in position to swallow the ball!
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Hopkins, MN