(Topic ID: 84703)

Dr Who No Inserts Lights (still struggling)


By demetris74

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 42 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by demetris74
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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There have been 4 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

PDB c6-c7.jpg
208940-i.jpg
wpc89-18Volt-2.jpg
wpc89-18Volt.jpg

#1 5 years ago

Guys

I am struggling long time now with this problem, Inserts Lights are completely out and still trying to figure out the problem

below are my checks.

- All voltages and voltage lights are ok on the Driver board,
- all capacitor trace connections ok, also the 18V C6
- All bridge rectifiers traces ok
- All cables confirmed connection is ok
- Ribbon cable from CPU to Driver board checked ok.

Is there any other thing i will need to check inserts lights to be completely out?

Can this be a U18 IC fault?

or is something controlled from the CPU board?

Machine works absolutely fine with no any other issues except this

#2 5 years ago

Any voltages at all on the male pins for the controlled lamps (Inserts)

#3 5 years ago

Are you getting voltage at the lamp sockets on the playfield? Is ribbon cable from MPU to Driver board off by a row?

#4 5 years ago

guys will check voltages at the male pins and lamp sockets and revert

#5 5 years ago

Just measure the pins of J137 plug and i get no readings , is there any case that the Lamp Matrix F114 Fuse solder connection underneath is bad? if that was the case then the Led6 would be off not on?

#6 5 years ago

So no voltage at the pins. Do you have voltage before the fuse?

If no, test BR1. It very possibly could have failed, and will need to be replaced.

#7 5 years ago

i dmm the fuse continuity from top with the fuse in but i guess that will show ok i will need to DMM the fuse socket continuity from the back correct?

Or you mean i need to measure if has voltage on the fuse correct?

#8 5 years ago

Check the voltage on each side of the fuse. Checking the fuse for continuity only proves the fuse is good, not that the traces/connections are good.

#9 5 years ago

Reseat the asic chip on the cpu. Push it down with your thumb and then power it on.

#10 5 years ago

Also, you need to take a fuse out of the holder to test it.

Quoted from demetris74:

i dmm the fuse continuity from top with the fuse in but i guess that will show ok i will need to DMM the fuse socket continuity from the back correct?

Or you mean i need to measure if has

#11 5 years ago

If you recently swapped out or removed your driver board, maybe you forgot to reconnect one of 3 cables to the board. Check J133, J134, J135. I forgot to connect one of them and I didn't have any of the insert lamps working because of it.

If connected, I would swap driver boards between one of your other WPC machines to see if that works before swapping over the MPU.

#12 5 years ago

Guys

found out the problem:

my bad... double checked the 18v test point and i dont get any reading Led is on thought, removed the board and checked continuity of C6 capacitor at all connections and everything is ok, fuse voltage is ok as tested before, the capacitor is new and the polarity is ok.

also capacitor tested and ok. Is there any other reason not to get 18v at the test point?

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from demetris74:

Guys
found out the problem:
my bad... double checked the 18v test point and i dont get any reading Led is on thought, removed the board and checked continuity of C6 capacitor at all connections and everything is ok, fuse voltage is ok as tested before, the capacitor is new and the polarity is ok.
also capacitor tested and ok. Is there any other reason not to get 18v at the test point?

Test br1. That is the rectifier for the lamp matrix.

#14 5 years ago

BR1 tested and ok also all traces ok.

18v led is on, continuity from C6 to TP8 ok. No 18v reading thought.

This is driving me nuts

#15 5 years ago

So, do you have 18v at the test point? If you don't, it is a fuse, bridge rectifier, capacitor or bad solder joint (possibly need a jumper). If you do have 18v, it would be the ribbon cable, ribbon pins, or bad solder on the CPU chip.

I just had this same thing happen on my JM and I feel like I know that schematic by heart. Based on your posts, I am thinking you need a jumper. Did you happen to replace a cap recently? Those caps are super easy to pull out the top trace and if you did, that would explain the current behavior. You could either do a jumper or pull the new cap and fill the top with solder and reinstall.

#16 5 years ago

I Dont have 18v its 0 at TP8, I have done all continuity tests underneath the board to all caps and BR's and they all have connections and they are all new.The C6 cap has one top and one under board trace which are both fine. , I have also tested resistance of the New C6 cap and is ok.

I mean is crazy, everything i tested is OK and still no 18V , i have recently replaced all caps, the old C6 was giving very low power round 9V and the lamps where working but very weak., I am just concentrating at C6 BR1 sections for the 18V as everything else works fine. All tested ok with out any broken traces whatsoever, machine works nice.

It might be something stupidly simple or something really bad, who knows, but i cant sleep with it, I will kill my self if i dont find it, LOL

#17 5 years ago

Can you snap a picture of the front and back of the board and post them?

#18 5 years ago

There are only three components. Fuse, Bridge, and cap. If work was done on the board, take it apart and do it again. The work that was done is the problem. It wasn't done right.

#19 5 years ago

Do you have AC voltage coming in to the driver board for the 18V circuit? If not, check the connector and pins.

#20 5 years ago

What about the thru hole plates? If they are missing on the cap...
faz

#21 5 years ago

Just repaired some missing GI on a Black Knight - voltage was on the ICB coming in but not going out - turned out the thru holes were lone gone. Two stitch repairs later and all is working. You have to pull the boards and do some DMM testing to verify the chain of voltage though.

#22 5 years ago

Probably a good time to start taking voltage readings. Check the AC going into the bridge and the DC going out. Then move along the path and see where you're losing it (I agree it sounds like a through-hole that got fried during some of the previous repair work or no AC to the bridge). If you don't know how, or where, to take the readings someone can help. You'll be amazed how much faster and easier it is to troubleshoot a circuit this way.

#23 5 years ago

If 12V regulated is present on TP3, then F114 and BR1 are OK.
You are missing the through hole connection marked with red dot on C7, going from back to the front side of the PCB.

Also make sure BR1 and C6 have proper connections on both sides of the PCB, but C7 (+) is causing the problem.

wpc89-18Volt.jpg
#24 5 years ago

zaza, I like that illustration....have you got the rest of the board?
faz

#25 5 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

If 12V regulated is present on TP3, then F114 and BR1 are OK.
You are missing the through hole connection marked with red dot on C7, going from back to the front side of the PCB.
Also make sure BR1 and C6 have proper connections on both sides of the PCB, but C7 (+) is causing the problem.

wpc89-18Volt.jpg 16 KB

This photo is very helpful as i dont remember DMM from BR1 + to C7 + , as i was concentrated at C6 connections, will remove tomorrow and revert.
This diagram is great showing the connections, do you have this for the hole driver bard?

#26 5 years ago

I do have the complete board but it's still in progress.
The picture used in this topic was edited and cropped. The original has no traces or colors.
In time it will be downloadable in hi-res.

Good luck with the repair, it's a lot easier now

#27 5 years ago

Thanks zaza will keep an update as i am sure this topic can be useful for others

#28 5 years ago

Update:

Checked traces as per zaza illustration, everything ok, I can now only assume a faulty C7, or C6 Capacitor, even thought are new. will keep you updated

Again thats strange because the 18V LED is on but no voltage at TP8

thanks to all will keep you updated

#29 5 years ago

not really strange, in this picture you can see LED6 gets its power directly from BR1 (trace at component-side).
C7 is connected to BR1 with trace at solder-side (dark red) and is continued to C6 at component-side which is directly connected to TP8.

again, I really think you are missing the through-hole connection between back and front side of the PCB at C7+wpc89-18Volt-2.jpg

#30 5 years ago

zaza...this drawing looks to be F-ing fantastic!!!!!

If you tag each of the traces on the schematic and cross reference those on the drawing a hamster should be able to diagnose the board.

Thanks for the effort!
faz

#31 5 years ago

I don't remember exactly how the traces are laid out, but you need continuity between C6 and TP8. I ran through the same issues on a T2 and wrote up a blog post to help me not forget this one.

http://kcpins.com/archives/345

#32 5 years ago

Zaza

Yesterday i have removed both C7 and C6 capacitors i am missing the C6 + under board Through-hole. But when capacitor is on i have continuity from from C6 + to TP8. It seems that the C6 + had connection at the top trace to TP8 when DMM.

Because i guess if the capacitor has contact at the top board trace then it doesn't matter if the thought-hole under board is out?

Is there an under board trace from C6+ to somewhere else except to C7 + <-- C6 + --> TP8? as i dont see any trace path from Under board?208940-i.jpg

#33 5 years ago

thanks for the compliments faz, however, it is just a bitmap with no interactive options. I use it for making notes when repairing a PDB, mainly to keep up what parts have been replaced.

Demetris74, don't make the problem more difficult
Here is what you can do the easy way :
- Remove C7 + C6
- use a blank copper wire (not too thick) and insert it from component-side in through-holes C7+ and C6+ and
leave 0.5 inch of the wire on the back side.
- scratch some insulation halfway C7 and C6 from trace on component-side and solder the wire to it.
- place the capacitors.
- solder them together with the wire on back-side.

let there be light
PDB c6-c7.jpg

#34 5 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

thanks for the compliments faz, however, it is just a bitmap with no interactive options.

zaza, perhaps you don't realize the importance of what you are doing. I can read the schematic without any problem. I can follow a trace on a board without any problem. However, if you overlap the two, that's pretty powerful. Half the time I can't even find a component since the board is not laid out like the schematic. Every time I'm looking for the TP, I need to remember, "oh yea...it's tucked over here".

Think about how powerful this would be if you labeled every trace on the board with a code. F001 for the the first trace on the face of the board. Then you go to the schematic overlaying F001 on the corresponding line. This is especially important when a thru-hole-plate is required to complete a circuit or there's a trace under a component.

Yes, I agree, not interactive (although that would be way cool). I imagine there's board design software out there, that you could paint the board, apply components and it will show you the flow, voltage drop, etc....but I would venture to say very expensive and not for the faint of heart.

I think your effort will be a big help.
faz

#35 5 years ago

Hi Zaza

Really nice illustration , sorry will ask another question and i hope i you dont get Mad lol

Since i have Continuity from C7+ to C6+ with and with out capacitors even if the C6+ under board through hole is missing, why i should still install a blank copper line? Does something more than it should since i have a continuity? PLEASE DONT GET MAD hahahah

#36 5 years ago

no problem demetris74,
you have continuity from C7+ to C6+ to TP8 to Q91-Q98 but,
it has to be connected with BR1+ (see my second picture).
and C7+ C6+ are impossible to solder properly on component-side so you need this stitch.
Also i'm not sure exactly what you read on the DMM, is it a trace or low impedance from 2 uncharged capacitors.
This way you know 100% sure that you have continuity and the 2 cap's are connected to pcb.
You know my advice

faz, I do know the importance, these pictures are great help on location or at the workbench and is why i made this.
Especially on locations with poor light and printed on 15x22 inch there's no timeloss of searching in bad printed manuals.
Maybe in the future with a transparent trace overlay but it costs loads of time to create this.
First I need to finish these, digital watermark them and make it/them downloadable.

1 week later
#37 5 years ago

Guys

Found the problem, Sometimes if you are mad helps, accidentally smash the coin door and walla. Inserts work WHAAAAT DA FAK

when i slap the coin door the inserts are back on, after all this hassle!! this might be my solution

What can be wrong? I slam it again and they are off again WTF thats not a solution!! take a look my funny video

#38 5 years ago

Cold solder joint
Broken wire

Just to rule out the slam switch doing something odd here.... flick the switch and see if something happens.

faz

#39 5 years ago

Faz

Broken wire on the inserts? are the wires chained?

#40 5 years ago

Check for a short on the coin door lights. They are also computer controlled on this game! Or try unplugging the coin door. My BOP was showing a ground fault when I closed the door on the switch matrix. One of my coin switch wires was frayed and was shorting when the door went closed.

#41 5 years ago

Well? Any progress?

#42 5 years ago

Checked the coin door lights and other cables of any short but all ok, after that bang shown on video inserts work,

I think i will call it a day and stop this investigation. i was sure that the capacitors where ok from the first place with no broken traces.

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