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(Topic ID: 266588)

Dr Dude A/C relay problem


By squad8

6 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 20 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 months ago by squad8
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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#1 6 months ago

I am having problems with a Dr Dude A/C select relay. The relay is energized in game over, and during game play except when a A side solenoid is activated. In solenoid test all the coils work, and most of the flashers work as well. Some of the flash lamps activate with the coil. The A/C relay cycles in test.
I checked the solder connections on all of the boards. U1 on the interconnect board was bad, and I figured that could be the problem. I replaced U1 and still have the same problem.

#2 6 months ago

I hate the A/C relay. I had issues with my Pinbot. I reflowed solder a bunch to make contact with the pads on top of the board (and under the relay) and it worked for a bit. I replaced the whole relay and then it worked 100%.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinbot-ac-select-relay-not-working-properly

#3 6 months ago
Quoted from dudah:

I hate the A/C relay. I had issues with my Pinbot. I reflowed solder a bunch to make contact with the pads on top of the board (and under the relay) and it worked for a bit. I replaced the whole relay and then it worked 100%.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinbot-ac-select-relay-not-working-properly

I could be wrong, but I don’t think that my problem is with the relay. Hopefully one of the system 11 experts will jump in.

#4 6 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

Some of the flash lamps activate with the coil.

This is definitely an issue with the A/C select relay.
That relay can fail, rarely, but I have had to replace them, as did dudah, above.
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#A.2FC_solenoid.2Fflasher_problems

I'd pry the cap off that relay and take a look at the contacts. It's nothing more than a make/break relay.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#5 6 months ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

This is definitely an issue with the A/C select relay.
That relay can fail, rarely, but I have had to replace them, as did dudah, above.
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#A.2FC_solenoid.2Fflasher_problems
I'd pry the cap off that relay and take a look at the contacts. It's nothing more than a make/break relay.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

I will take the cover off and check it. Would the relay energize in game over if it is a problem in the relay? When I power up the game the relay energizes after a few seconds, and it cycles in the A /C test. I can see the contacts open and close in test.

#6 6 months ago

Chris,

The cover on the relay is glued on, and before I destroy it taking it off, I put the auxiliary driver board in a Taxi. It works as it should in Taxi, it is not energized in game over, and all the solenoids, and flashers work. I also checked continuity with the relay in the A side. Both sides of A have continuity, and both sides of C are open.
I think that U18 on the CPU is bad. When I probe the pins for solenoid 12, pins 4, and 5 are high, and pin 6 has nothing.

#7 6 months ago

Good testing!
Let's try this.
Get a 18" length of wire, stripped at both ends.
Tuck one end under the ground braid or metal rail.
BRIEFLY, touch the other end to the tab of Q8.
You should hear the A/C select relay activate.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#8 6 months ago

When I power the game on, in about 5 seconds the relay locks on, but if I ground the tab of Q8 in the first 5 seconds I can make the relay activate.

#9 6 months ago

I am still trying to get to the bottom of this problem. I have the board on the bench for testing, and have found that on U10, pins 2-17 are all low with the logic probe except pin 13 which is high. As you power the board pin 13 is low and after about 5 seconds it goes high. Pin 13 is PB3 for solenoid #12 A/C relay. My question is would U10 be the problem, or is something else telling it to go high.

#10 6 months ago

What you are describing sounds like it is under control of the microprocessor.

Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com/ - The new place for pinball repair info

#11 6 months ago

Thanks Chris,
Is there anything else I should check, or should I order a 6802?

#12 6 months ago

I don’t mean that the micro processor has failed. I meant that it seems like the game is intentionally behaving like that for whatever reason.

Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com/ - The new place for pinball repair info

#13 6 months ago

Thank You for clarifying that. I will have to see what I can come up with.

#14 6 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

I put the auxiliary driver board in a Taxi. It works as it should in Taxi, it is not energized in game over, and all the solenoids, and flashers work. I also checked continuity with the relay in the A side. Both sides of A have continuity, and both sides of C are open.

This is as it should be, different games are programmed differently. Some games have flashers working in attract mode and some don't.

Why are you concerned with the A/C relay itself, issues in the Dr. Dude machine should be looked at one at a time.

Quoted from squad8:

Some of the flash lamps activate with the coil.

List these issues and we can look for the problems.

#15 6 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Why are you concerned with the A/C relay itself, issues in the Dr. Dude machine should be looked at one at a time.

To answer your question, I guess I didn't think that the relay should be energized constantly in game over, along with the fact that I am getting flash lamps, and solenoids together.

Quoted from GRUMPY:

List these issues and we can look for the problems.

I will get a detailed list of what is going on posted in the next day or so.

Thanks Grumpy

#16 6 months ago

The issues that I have are;

In solenoid test the flash lamps 01C-08C, flash with each coil on the A side as well as the C side.

The flash lamp in the backbox does not light when it should, solenoid 11 test, but it flashes with every coil except the 3 pop bumpers.

Some of the other flashers will light with the slingshots.

All of the flashers are LED, but they did the same thing with incandescents.

The A/C relay cycles in solenoid test.

In switch level test it shows the A/C relay.

#17 6 months ago

It sound as if you have a short between the "A"-side and the "C"-side.

There is no way the machine can energize a coil AND a flasher at the same time with one and the same transistor.
The A/C relay prevents that.
It's either "A"-side or "C"-side, not both at the same time.

#18 6 months ago

Thanks to all that posted.
I believe that I have corrected the problem. I found that the brown/orange wire for the back box flasher (solenoid 11) was wired to the interconnect board connector 2J7-5, and should be on 2J12-3. After changing the wire the flash lamp works, and I don’t have flashers, and solenoids firing at the same time.
For anyone trouble shooting a Dr Dude , I have found quite a few errors in the original wiring diagrams, and solenoid table.

#19 6 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

Thanks to all that posted.
I believe that I have corrected the problem. I found that the brown/orange wire for the back box flasher (solenoid 11) was wired to the interconnect board connector 2J7-5, and should be on 2J4-14. After changing the wire the flash lamp works, and I don’t have flashers, and solenoids firing at the same time.
For anyone trouble shooting a Dr Dude , I have found quite a few errors in the original wiring diagrams, and solenoid table.

How do the errors compare with my Tech Chart?
Do I need to adjust somethings?
I know the fuse function F5 and F6 need to be reversed (already done for the next upload).

#20 6 months ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:How do the errors compare with my Tech Chart?
Do I need to adjust somethings?
I know the fuse function F5 and F6 need to be reversed (already done for the next upload).

The errors that I found have been corrected on your tech chart, other that the one that I sent you the pm on.

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