(Topic ID: 190486)

DP Values Your Advice on TBL - Vote Here!!

By RTR

4 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 77 posts
  • 31 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Coz
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic poll

“Should DP take the deal and move on down the road as a Pinball Company?”

  • Take the deal!! 49% of a watermelon is better than 100% of a raisin!! 231 votes
    83%
  • Refuse the deal and try to retain 100% of your company, even if it delays TBL production for years. 47 votes
    17%

(278 votes)

There are 77 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 4 years ago
Quoted from icust298:

So what does that tell you?

Lol, that I may have to change the title of the thread. It could be that DP doesn't give a flying dutchman's crap about what their customers think they should do.

#52 4 years ago
Quoted from RTR:

Dude, don't fall for DP's misinformation or Unigroove's well meaning, but unresearched, parroting of DP's position. Companies don't ditch their obligations by selling themselves in the Netherlands.

In fact, if you go by what DP has said in the letter, ARA/Nivoge would own 51% of DP, not some new company. Does anyone think that an investment and change of majority ownership negates a company's obligations?

Tigerlaw or others are prob better to opine on this, but I would think that the Netherlands is a decent place to do business where contracts and rule of law prevail and can control any of these specious objections DP have expressed.

#53 4 years ago
Quoted from RTR:

Lol, that I may have to change the title of the thread. It could be that DP doesn't give a flying dutchman's fuck about what their customers think they should do.

I would operate under that assumption until they prove otherwise.

#54 4 years ago
Quoted from unigroove:

It's really not that difficult. Once Nivoge owns 51% of DP, they can "renegotiate" the original contract because ARA still wants more money. So ARA could set the price at what they want, throw in any imaginary expense they feel like and DP's new owners will happily approve and pay with EA's money. Nothing Barry and Jaap can do about it as they would be a minority. Chances are that would release the hostage games, as these would be paid for, but still no guarantee that production will resume.

#55 4 years ago
Quoted from RTR:

In fact, if you go by what DP has said in the letter, ARA/Nivoge would own 51% of DP, not some new company. Does anyone think that an investment and change of majority ownership negates a company's obligations?
Tigerlaw or others are prob better to opine on this, but I would think that the Netherlands is a decent place to do business where contracts and rule of law prevail and can control any of these specious objections DP have expressed.

The theory unigroove is suggesting is once ARA has control of DP (an independent entity), that ARA will use that control to have DP enter a new contract that effectively takes all the money DP has and then bankrupt DP... ARA gets all the money and DP gets sued by the people it didn't deliver games to and ARA walks away. Since ARA is a separate company that theoretically doesn't owe a duty to the buyers, the buyers would be left with a suit against an insolvent DP (ARA having control of DP won't matter since it is in a different shell).

That is an easy event to protect against in the transfer agreement...but that's the point he's making.

#56 4 years ago

DP continues to act as though time is their friend. This hasn't been mentioned yet, but this contract is at a standstill because of a voluntary non-payment by DP.

Every contract I have been party to has a penalty provision for late payment. If DP is wrong about their chances of prevailing in court, they are likely racking up a huge late payment penalty. It's a really big gamble they are taking on the outcome of an as yet unfiled lawsuit.

#57 4 years ago
Quoted from RTR:

DP continues to act as though time is their friend. This hasn't been mentioned yet, but this contract is at a standstill because of a voluntary non-payment by DP.
Every contract I have been party to has a penalty provision for late payment. If DP is wrong about their chances of prevailing in court, they are likely racking up a huge late payment penalty. It's a really big gamble they are taking on the outcome of an as yet unfiled lawsuit.

What if is was not voluntary, but out of necessity because they did not have the funds to pay. We still are in the dark about alot here. From what I have heard they have no money left to pay ARA in the first place. They have lied in the past, and I think this is just another lie or half truth.

#58 4 years ago
Quoted from foxtj24:

What if is was not voluntary, but out of necessity because they did not have the funds to pay. We still are in the dark about alot here. From what I have heard they have no money left to pay ARA in the first place. They have lied in the past, and I think this is just another lie or half truth.

I used 'voluntary' loosely. No one enters a conversation about trading a majority equity position to satisfy contractual payments from a position of strength. DP is definitely out of funds or low on funds. No other reason to entertain giving away ownership unless that's all you got left in your wallet. Especially 51%. The fact they entertained it is telling.

#59 4 years ago

Bump just in case someone has not voted yet....

#61 4 years ago

With Heighway biting the dust, DP better start getting transparent and real with us, I feel everyone approaching their Walter limits.

#62 4 years ago

I don't know all the details regarding the new owners at Highway, but I think a Highway type situation would be welcome here.

Someone coming in that has the funds and business talent to take over and - issue refunds to disgruntled, instill enough confidence to the new orders, communicate a plan very clearly, and of course, get the factory line rolling again.

#63 4 years ago

Posted on craigslist Seattle:

seattle.craigslist.org link

It's a NIB machine for only $25,000.

#64 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

With Heighway biting the dust, DP better start getting transparent and real with us, I feel everyone approaching their Walter limits.

Walter limits?

#65 4 years ago

Watch the movie.

#66 4 years ago

DP spent money at trade shows like drunken sailors. They don't have any money left. Case closed.
Possible strategy #1: We could try to force them into bankruptcy and then buy the IP to TBL. The problem with that strategy is the company is in Denmark, not very close to most of us and we don't know Dutch law. If an angel investor wanted to bail DP out, he/she would spend 500k and 2-3 years and THEN have to negotiate production with ARA or another manufacturer. There is no scenario where this makes financial sense.
Possible strategy #2: If the investor started over, perhaps they would only be 100k in the red (probably more like 200k), but everyone with deposits or paid in full would have a total loss. If TBL is resurrected (with DP gone), we are all probably looking at a total write off. Would you still want a TBL if you had to pay 10k to the new owner - with your original investment gone forever? I'm not sure I would.
If enough people like strategy #2 and we can find a reputable US manufacturer like Spooky.... then perhaps I would be willing to pay some legal fees to explore this option.

#67 4 years ago
Quoted from highdef:

Watch the movie.

Wait, what? Which movie? What th am I missing?

#68 4 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Wait, what? Which movie? What th am I missing?

You are out of your element.

#69 4 years ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

You are out of your element.

Clearly ... go mizzou!! Haha

Oh god what a dumb ass, forgot which thread I was posting in

#70 4 years ago
Quoted from RTR:

To Rarehero's point, maybe emails directly to Barry and Jaap letting them know exactly how you feel about things could be helpful. Here is mine:
Hi Barry,
I am just touching base to let you know that I may not be on the email
list for some reason. Apparently a newsletter dropped this morning
and I did not receive it. just saw someone post it on Pinside.
Please ensure I remain on the list.
In your letter, you stated that the opinions of your current financial
backers - and in case you have forgotten who that is, it us us, we, uh
not just the royal we - but specifically the early achievers. I guess
we could include all those with deposits with CT and others - were
also important in your decision making process to reject ARA's offer.
Well, frankly that surprised me. Personally I wish that you would
accept an offer from ARA and their parent company, even if you lose a
controlling interest in your company. I believe it is one of the only
ways that you guys will have a long term survival prospect and may be
able to get past this horrible predicament that you are in and
possibly produce more games in the future.
I also know that a lot more than 2 or 3 people share this opinion.
So, since our opinions are important to you, I decided to conduct a
poll regarding this. And since our opinions are so important, I am
sharing the poll with you:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dp-values-your-advice-on-tbl-vote-here#post-3799848
Again, I am pretty upset with you guys. I think you have ways to get
this moving and you are not taking advantage of it. You are putting
your own personal wellbeing and wishes in front of the people that
have supported you all along and in a most undude-like manner. I also
believe that if you do not work through this soon, you will run out of
money and options. Then you will have no company at all. I sincerely
hope that is not how it ends.
Regards,
Mike Hoover
334-xxx-xxxx

Hey dudes - I encourage everyone with a dog in the fight to email DP and let them know how you feel - good or bad. And FYI - I have received no response to this email yet.

#71 4 years ago
Quoted from Davidus56:

DP spent money at trade shows like drunken sailors. They don't have any money left. Case closed.
Possible strategy #1: We could try to force them into bankruptcy and then buy the IP to TBL. The problem with that strategy is the company is in Denmark, not very close to most of us and we don't know Dutch law. If an angel investor wanted to bail DP out, he/she would spend 500k and 2-3 years and THEN have to negotiate production with ARA or another manufacturer. There is no scenario where this makes financial sense.
Possible strategy #2: If the investor started over, perhaps they would only be 100k in the red (probably more like 200k), but everyone with deposits or paid in full would have a total loss. If TBL is resurrected (with DP gone), we are all probably looking at a total write off. Would you still want a TBL if you had to pay 10k to the new owner - with your original investment gone forever? I'm not sure I would.
If enough people like strategy #2 and we can find a reputable US manufacturer like Spooky.... then perhaps I would be willing to pay some legal fees to explore this option.

Denmark, Dutch Law? Time for coffee & Danish?

#72 4 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Denmark, Dutch Law? Time for coffee & Danish?

Eh - Denmark, Netherlands, Russia, whatever - right?

2 weeks later
#73 4 years ago

ARA has DP over a barrel. DP almost certainly is broke. It takes money to litigate and ARA knows it. Perhaps DP should allow the people that have paid for games to negotiate directly with ARA for release of the games that are already manufactured. That would go a long way towards reversing the ill will that DP's poor business practices has created.
I saw red flags watching these guys at the convention, but I wanted a TBL so bad that I let it cloud my judgement. Fortunately, I only have a $4,500 deposit at risk.

#74 4 years ago
Quoted from Davidus56:

ARA has DP over a barrel. DP almost certainly is broke. It takes money to litigate and ARA knows it. Perhaps DP should allow the people that have paid for games to negotiate directly with ARA for release of the games that are already manufactured. That would go a long way towards reversing the ill will that DP's poor business practices has created.
I saw red flags watching these guys at the convention, but I wanted a TBL so bad that I let it cloud my judgement. Fortunately, I only have a $4,500 deposit at risk.

How do you only have 4500 at risk? You are either an achiever that has paid in full at 8500, or a late comer that has a 1k deposit with cointaker. If you only have 4500 paid you may have forfeited your spot for missed payments. Yes DP is broke. But if we all have to pay ARA an additional $6500 (the amount they were charging DP) and then pay to get them to the us, That would almost double what we already have paid. DP needs to man up and pay what they owe, or accept the 51% agreement so we can get our games. We are lucky ARA has not sued them yet. If that happens they could be done for sure.

#75 4 years ago
Quoted from foxtj24:

or accept the 51% agreement so we can get our games.

I doubt that offer is even still on the table. Usually offers like that have a clock and once rejected the offer would have to be reissued.

2 years later
#76 2 years ago

45 votes for refuse the deal.

Any of the 45 want to change their vote?

#77 2 years ago
Quoted from Hoss_Coog:

45 votes for refuse the deal.
Any of the 45 want to change their vote?

Unfortunately most of those people are still waiting for their pin....

There are 77 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.

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