Take the Deal!!!

just gonna have to reiterate from another thread. When giving up control to an investor many milestones can be placed in the agreement so the 51% is retained ie shipping all 50 and completing and shipping the remainder of the 300 or whatever number is owed. They are lying to us all when they say all but a handful worry about their future rather than the money they owe us. What a crock of shite

oh look they are liars. 9 for 9 say make a deal go fing figure. Once a liar always a liar. DP you are dead in the pinball world

I agree, but then again, how tough are contract laws in Holland? Also it's tough to give up your company. It was ARA's numbers that they crunched to get them to offer the game at that price, now they changed the numbers and want 51% of the company. Either way, I wonder if they know how close to death they are.....DP is now tainted no one will ever pre-pay for anything they'll try to sell in the future. So I hope they take all of this into account.

So...DP is full of shit! Thanks so much for speaking for us, but not allowing us an actual vote. If you represent us, why didn't we have a say. Oh, according to DP we did, and they spoke about trying to do what we'd want.

We all know who will vote to not take a well executed deal which obviously DP is incapable of making. They have already lied and never asked anyone they knew would want them to worry about investors first rather then their own personal future gains. Give your heads a shake these guys need to be put down. Lies and no business sense what combination is worse than this?

Take the deal and complete the paid orders. Then retire from pinball or if they really want to then try and open a new company on their own again.

hmmmm "It really is great to see that the majority of you guys keep supporting us. We will get you your TBL!"

I take personal offense to the claim that the only ones who want to take the deal are those who are selfish and just want their games. I think taking the deal was the only way all games would get built for everyone.

"I take personal offense to the claim that the only ones who want to take the deal are those who are selfish and just want their games. I think taking the deal was the only way all games would get built for everyone."

That's EXACTLY how I feel. I'm supposed to feel guilty after reading that because I care about getting my machine? F them!

Unfortunately, anyone can vote...not just TBL customers....but yeah, I think their whole "2 or 3 people wanted us to take the deal" line was BS. Perhaps only that many EMAILED them, though....I don't think they're reading Pinside.

I am Early Achiever #84 meaning my machine is sitting there being held hostage and collecting dust. DP has delusions of grandeur as if they are trying to catch the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. I hate to burst your bubble DP, but the longer you look for that pot of gold, it causes the perspective to continued to change... Take the f*cking deal and move on with your life...a bird in your hand is better than nothing at all!!!

I just wish they would admit they are out of money. The lies have not stopped, But they are getting more creative with them.

Because the poll is open to every person on pinside, not just people who paid for a BL?

I fail to see how they stay open if they don't take this deal.

These idiots need a Pinside poll to figure it out! Lol

Billy is right, they have NOTHING. 100% of ZERO is F ing ZERO

I assume they can't pay for a competent advisor or they are using whatever game funds are left to lawyer up

I don't get why anybody would want to partner with them under any circumstances but I hope for you guys ARA is dumb enough to try

Take the deal , not just to fulfill games owed but to save yourself of a long road of scrutiny and mental anguish.

If you were smart enough you would not be in this position

ARA is offering a bailout and need control to make this happen, they need to get paid as well as other parties involved.

ARA must devote a timeline for where ALL TBL 's are manufactured by!!

If it takes them 2 years then don't make the deal , capiche!!

Don't take this personal, but I find it odd that you indicate not knowing the terms of the deal, yet you mention a willing and able financial backer. Newsflash: Nivoge isn't going to pump money into DP, they want to take money out! Once they own 51% of DP that clears the way to alter any existing contract to their liking, raising prices in their favor, yet all of this without guaranteeing anything.

Read that again: no guarantees! Would you sign away ownership of your company to a company that comes with a shady construction for a takeover, have a them set their own prices, plunder your bank account and not have to do anything in return? I don't think so. So why should DP? Why would you tell anyone without any inside info to take a deal you wouldn't take yourself?

But let's just look at the other scenario for a second: Let's say DP signs away 51% of their company because a bunch of people with no inside info tell them they should do so. Yeey! You think that will get you your game? Think again. Nivoge is likely to use DP to pump some money into ARA, so they cover their costs, but production of TBL doesn't restart. Not that they care. They got their money and will drop DP like it's hot. Call it a tax write-off or whatever. Net result: nobody gets their game and there's nothing Barry and Jaap can do about it. Then everybody who's now saying they should take the deal will be whining they should have never taken the deal. Let's say you take it even further: you sue DP. They will say, "we did what you told us to do. Don't like the result? Talk to Nivoge." Nivoge will say the game turned out to be too expensive to build and once the money from DP ran out they quit building the game. Net result: no new games. At best maybe the hostage games get released, but that's it. So how does that sound to you? Should they really take that deal? Is that improving your situation?

As far as I can tell DP does have a very strong case against ARA for breach of contract, so I would advise them to take that route. First thing any judge will do is ask whether they tried to work things out. "Well your honor, we did and this is what they offered." I'm pretty sure that will raise some eyebrows in court, so in that sense it's a good thing this happened. Any judge is likely to rule in DP's favor and order ARA to continue to build and deliver the games confirm the original contract. So it will take more time, but there will be games. In the mean time DP may already start production of games with another contract manufacturer = games being made. So not taking the offered deal seems by far still the best option.

That's well said !!
But is DP smart enough ??

How did they get to this point I say
And how will they not get screwed by another manufacturer ?

Take the route to the Dutch courts if that's the case , but how much that will cost?

Where's the money going to come from to remake all the parts and games that are already sitting there at ARA?

Um, there's a bank account to plunder?

I want DP to take this deal because it's going to be easier for me to sue and recover from NiVoGe vs. a defunct DP.

This one has me confused... Perhaps the laws are different. In the USA, if I acquire 51% of a company I get 51% of both the assets and the liabilities. To be sure, some contracts contain clauses dealing with change of ownership; however, I would bet that is not the case with the contracts people have with DP for their games. (And, by the way, those clauses are always written for the protection of the party not having the change of ownership). Again, in the USA, DP/ARA would still be bound by the original terms of the agreement. Could they try to renegotiate an existing agreement? Sure, but any company at any time can try to do that. I feel I must be missing something here. I'm not trolling, can someone explain this to me?

I don't think anyone with any semblance of sense was just asking them to sign away 51%, though quite a few have indeed called for it. Certainly I assumed that there would be some kind of broad agreement with provisos and guarantees for both parties, to try to make the entity (DP) work.

But you seem to be saying that the former was exactly what was tabled? You also sound angry, like they (Jaap?) did.

You obviously know Barry & Jaap well, and have your ear to the ground in NL generally.

Was it literally just a transfer of equity? No guarantees about production? No terms about the future? I find that difficult to believe, as it would be tantamount to trolling ... give them the shares, and then have faith that something will happen?

It's really not that difficult. Once Nivoge owns 51% of DP, they can "renegotiate" the original contract because ARA still wants more money. So ARA could set the price at what they want, throw in any imaginary expense they feel like and DP's new owners will happily approve and pay with EA's money. Nothing Barry and Jaap can do about it as they would be a minority. Chances are that would release the hostage games, as these would be paid for, but still no guarantee that production will resume.

And further risk is that Nivoge, after the deal is done, making enormous (fake) investments that Barry and Jaap are forced to follow suit.
This is not a friendly take over, or a financial injection from a pinloving investor, so you can't rule anything out.

I didn't vote because I am not an Early Achiever. I just have a deposit but I think they should take the deal.

DP needs to fight it out through the courts ASAP with ARA

The "positive" meetings they had seem like entrapment now.

DP boys , get your head out .....
Get a good Lawyer , now !!!!!

Remember when pinball was fun?

Barry and Jaap would have horrendous legal counsel if they didn't protect against that in the 51% transfer agreement. The consideration for the transfer has to be getting the ordered machines completed, if they can't get that clause into the agreement then I would question their legal counsel's competency or ARA's willingness to actually do the deal at all (because it's more of a blow off if they won't make the consideration the completion of the ordered games).

I'm not sure if they know where they're at. By that I mean the DP name is damaged, if their future biz model requires buyers putting money down then they're delusional. This will never happen. If they don't need future deposits then then OK they can fight it out in court. Either way the DP name is dinged. I will go on the limb and say DP's future as a pinball company is at best questionable now. So if the pre-pay model for them is dead then the only way forward is to find an investor like JJP and Heighway.

If DP places value on what Pinside has to say, no wonder they are in deep trouble.

Thanks. Clearly the law is radically different than it is in the USA. Here, a change in a company's ownership has no impact on the contractual obligations of that company. I can't imagine how this could work differently. Say I start a company with my brother to build an apartment. He owns 51%, I own 49%. After six months, we want more money so he sells 2% to me, so now I own 51 and he owns 49. Suddenly, all contracts are null and void and can be renegotiated? So we renegotiate for better terms. Six months go by and I sell 2% back to my brother and all contracts are null and void? Obviously, this is taking an example to the absurd.

This is why, in the USA, many acquisitions are are pure asset deals with the liabilities left behind. Anyhow, good to know that things are substantially different in the Netherlands

So what does that tell you?