The Big Lebowski
Dutch Pinball, 2016You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider zucot.
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I got an unrequested refund as well. I had paid in full in two different payments and got the refund in two transactions.
Seems sort of sloppy. Hoping for an official explanation.
I did not get hit with any transaction fees at least.
I just reapplied my payment. We'll see what happens now.
I agree that they shouldn't wait until next week to issue an explanation.
Wow. What a clusterfuck.
I inmediately repaid in full. Not sure what to do at this point.
Sounds like we need another statement from DP about the overall state of the game and approvals.
When is the VIP party? If they don't address this then I'm out.
Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:I've said it before, and it will never change. Barry is one of the best designers I've ever met, and given the right circumstances, he can make amazing games.
Yes, this game can still get made, and if it does, I'm sure it will be very good. I truly hope they succeed, but I just do not feel comfortable being a part of it.
I have been trying like hell to get out of this, and all my requests were ignored, or I was given one BS line after another -- and let's just say that it felt very familiar.
So that's why I've done this. I hate that I am left with so little recourse, but I have to put the well being of my own family above all else, and given the choice, I would do the same thing again.
Barry, I've practically begged you to find someone to take DP USA. I've iMessaged you, I emailed you, I've called you. I've even emailed you all the paperwork pre-filled out. I'll even help you put the company back together. You know that.
Take me off this company so we can all move on. Please.
Phil, thanks for sharing this information. Your charisma and enthusiasm was what made me make the preorder jump in the first place.
No matter what anyone says from here on out I still think you're one of the good guys and that even though this is a big mess you ultimately are trying to do the community right.
I sincerely hope that DP will address these licensing problems and reassure the VIP community in short order.
So is there going to be another email sent to VIPs?
I can live with the playfield art changes but not having John Goodman VO would be a dealbreaker.
Every time I see a post from Phil I feel a little worse about keeping my preorder.
Concretehardt nailed it - Barry has one shot to air everything out and be transparent about all of it.
BOP US kits and code.
Licensing status including what's locked in and what's subject to change / be cut.
What to expect as far as TBL code goes at launch come April.
His view on what happened with Phil.
How DP are going to incentivize people to stay onboard.
If we don't hear from Barry and co today I am out.
I immediately repaid in full after I got refunded but before Phil started posting all of the dirt.
They have had more than enough time to prepare a response. There hasn't even been a 'we are aware of the situation please stand by.'
The silence is deafening.
Quoted from Soltic:Heads-up.
I just got an email from Barry - but asked for clarification.
I've also asked that he address the VIP's / pinside.
The last thing I need to be is a f'n parrot.
-Rod
What did he say?
Quoted from Soltic:As a business owner myself, a hobbyist here, as well as a human being that tries to believe in respect as much as possible - please hang tight - let me see what I can do.
-Rod
Thank you. I sincerely appreciate it. My finger is hovering over the PayPal dispute button.
I just submitted a paypal claim on my 8500 that was resent between the refund from Phil and him posting here.
I also emailed [email protected] asking for a refund and explaining that I would withdraw the claim once they refunded me.
I still want the game but I am not comfortable having the 8500 sitting out there in limbo.
Wish me luck.
Phil - am I accurate in assuming that since I repaid after you refunded me you no longer have access to that money?
Quoted from DutchTommy:Phil i founded u an very wise man.. It shows as u told us at the pinball expo that u are an academic teacher, teaching students in the university. How to do marketing.,
And if the accusations are true u make, why didnt you have seeked professional guidance in the form of an attorney for example and fight off the problems u are dealing with your so called friends barry and jaap?
Im sorry for the serious illness which u are undergoing and fighting to defeat i really do, ur action feels to me like an suicidal course ur taking, hence the f bombs at the seminar of pinball expo gaved me the feeling that u simply dont care what happens do you?
And if you lose the battle, do u really wanna leave this world knowing that u slaughtered off an entire pinball company single handed by ur accusations on your friends,. Think twice wise friend, im for sure u do have regrets upon ur actions around here.. We all know that
Are you serious dude? Suicidal? Let's keep his illness out of this beyond "I hope you beat it and get better soon."
Quoted from Plungemaster:If i have to bury my mother i probeble will not give sign of life within 48 hours. Highly likele i will be a wreck for at least a month. And you all expect him to react instantly?
And in this case he had 48 hours, from saterdaynight! In the middle of the night, on the day he buried his mother. In the weekend.
They already send out an email, so they have done their first respons.
Give them some time to come with a good, proffesional statement.
48 hours with all this mess and also in the weekend middle of the night is hardly any time.
If they respond this week, its soon enough. Takes some time too talking with their lawyers.
There's more than one other leader here. I would be more accepting of this if Barry wasn't in the picture. He should be commenting here and at the very least offering up a timeframe for everything to be addressed.
Quoted from chuckwurt:The only obligation that Barry has communication-wise is to the people who have made deposits to DP. That should only be handled by email communication to those people, or telephone calls. Not a post on a pinball website. If they want to make a blanket statement to the pinball community fine, but they only owe an explanation to the concerned current customers, not possible future customers. The possible future customers will make their decisions after the current customers report back here after hearing from DP.
Fair enough, that would be fine too.
Quoted from edmorex:The best I was able to do was select "I want to report a transaction that I didn't authorize or was transacted in error" option instead of "I have a problem with an item I purchased". That opens a ticket that doesn't get auto-closed by PayPal. However, it doesn't seem to do much good because the ticket has been sitting with the status of: "Awaiting other party's response" since this all started.
Maybe if enough people file a claim like this against "Dutch Pinball USA, Inc." PayPal will get off their ass and do something, but that is most certainly just wishful thinking.
I preordered in two deposits - one for 4k and one for 4.5k, so I have two open claims against them as well.
Quoted from jazzmaster:I must have missed this when first mentioned in the thread (imagine that). Is this due the Goodman's objections or something else?
I believe this was due to Universal.
What a roller coaster.
I am encouraged by the move to bring Roger onboard.
I am still concerned about my money being safe and have asked about that via email. Not sure what to do now other than sit and wait.
I canceled my paypal dispute without realizing that I couldnt reopen one on that transaction. Stupid, but here I am. Gulp.
Quoted from DCfoodfreak:If I was you and not me I would stay in for a great game. Me I cant take this shit. I freak out. I know this now. I just cant pre order. But if you can this is a great game to be in on. I will get one probably six months after you and pay more and it wont have the chrome I wanted. But I will sleep at night and not stress over every stupid piece of news.
Yeah I hear you.
If I actually get the game you are more than welcome to come play it. Hopefully everyone will be laughing about this by then.
Quoted from Aurich:IMHO the bottom line is whatever could have been done differently is done now. Phil has cancer, he's in a jammed spot, and he's just doing what he can to get out. It's not about good guys and bad guys. We don't need to choose sides here, it's cool to want the game to be built and for the guy to take care of his health.
Japp and Barry have to divest themselves of Phil. It's what he wants, but it's also what Dutch Pinball needs. No one is going to feel comfortable until that's settled. Simple or complicated figure that shit out, and make it a priority. We don't need to know the tax details, not our problem, been enough over sharing. Just make sure you do it right and can reassure everyone.
So DP, get Roger on Universal, we all know he can handle that shit. Listen to him if he tells you to stop taking world tours with unapproved machines ffs. And get Phil out of there.
Then he can focus on trying to beat a bitch of a disease, and you can focus on trying to build a bad ass bitch of a game. This is drama, but no one wants it to be the end of anything.
All of this PLUS that damn aurich guy needs to get those shadow translite sets out before Xmas...
I got two emails from Barry this morning. I'm in wait and see mode. To me they need to:
1. Have some kind of an update by the end of the year, BEFORE the next payment is due.
2. It must include what the status is of our cash, an updated production timeframe, what to expect with code, and their policy for remaining payments / people that want refunds now.
3. BOP kits and DP tshirts need clear delivery dates that they actually follow through on.
4. An update on BOP code and how it impacts TBL completion.
Quoted from Concretehardt:Yea this game is way to good to not get made!
Are you staying in bro?
We need a new thread for the survivors club, hahaha.
Some of you guys need to stay away from the forums and this thread in particular, at least for Christmas or whatever holiday you may celebrate.
A big update is rumored to be coming before the next payment is due. When that happens this thread will surely explode again.
Until then bickering about it here is just noise.
For what it's worth I just got my tshirt today, postmarked by Dutch punball USA, INC. A PO box in Park Ridge Il.
Quoted from limelime20:He's done something, and took something, that's a no given,,,just how much, IS DP's guess..and can tell us..
Go home, you're drunk.
Quoted from Rensh:I was there today. See enclosed pictures.
Rest assured, the license is safe and Yep, some is still under approval which is why the big label is there placed in such a way it can't be missed and not because something in that area needed to be covered.
Kahlua is blackened to, no surprise there either.
All was done in corporation with roger and universal. Soundtracks and callouts are there to.
So guys, again, rest assure, license is safe and work is in progress.image.jpg 181 KB
image-871.jpg 199 KB
image-374.jpg 155 KB
Any new code?
Quoted from pinballslave:My wife's theory on all this is that DP are actually a faction of the Islamic State and are using money from pre-orders to fund terrorist attacks... I told her that I didn't think that was the case, but I'd put it out on Pinside anyway
Do yourself a favor and stop posting stupid shit.
I have always gotten prompt replies from Barry, including today.
The reality of the situation is that there will be no news until a transfer agreement is signed. The worst thing that they could do is announce a date for an update and then miss it.
Consider that all of this started going down over the holidays, while Phil was undergoing treatment, and with multiple timezones involved.
Anyone stepping in to engineer the transfer needed time to dig into the history, both perspectives, negotiate a mediation and then paper and sign it. That stuff just takes time.
Should it have been handled before? Yes. Posturing to get their PayPal account frozen isn't going to help anyone at this point.
Quoted from Aurich:Pot leaf is gone. This makes me very sad actually. Sucks some of the character out of the game, sorry the license had to wuss out like that.
No more gun. Too bad, but oh well.
The character inserts have lost the attempts to filter them to feel more in line with the playfield art and are now just straight up photos. They look pretty awful unfortunately, but that's obviously something where the license process tied their hands.
Obviously the coffee liqueur part. We can't see things like the spinners to know if Time is still on there.
Without looking at the old design that's all that jumps out at me right now.
Still think the art kicks ass, just feels a little bit like seeing a rad concept car, and then the production model takes out some of the parts you really loved because they didn't mean some standard and had to be watered down.
None of it would be a deal breaker for me if I was still in though, and I'm looking forward to seeing it fully populated again.
Regarding the time spinners, they did say that they got all of the licensors except for Kahlua. Hopefully those time spinners made it!
Quoted from ozno:Good news.
BUT
The refunds are never coming. They don't have the money. Jjst as I predicted, they are going to drag this out.
I want to see official documentation concerning PayPal. This is BS!!!!!!!!!!
Slow down there chicken little. Back away from the keyboard.
Email Barry privately in a week and ask for an update, I'm sure you'll get one.
Or you could just bitch about it here. That works too.
Perhaps the 'old' faces look difference because they're lit and you're seeing the texture of the inserts that they're screened on?
Some of you guys would find a way to complain about anything.
Today's update was great. It showed good progress on the game and a reasonable update on when to hear more about the DP USA situation.
I know that it's unnerving to have money tied up when you want it refunded but these guys are going to come through.
They proved it with BOP. It might be a bumpy road but such is the state of early adoption in almost anything, not just pinball.
I got an unrequested refund and paid again in full the same day. My order status page was updated accordingly.
Today I got an email saying that I owe two payments. Trying to work it out with Barry.
Did this happen to anyone else?
Quoted from zucot:I got an unrequested refund and paid again in full the same day. My order status page was updated accordingly.
Today I got an email saying that I owe two payments. Trying to work it out with Barry.
Did this happen to anyone else?
Barry responded and fixed this in under 15 minutes. I continue to be a satisfied DP backer.
Quoted from Razorbak86:I've never understood why some people try to close down discussion threads on Internet forums?
When this thread is closed, another one will spring to life. The same stuff that's being talked about here will be talked about in the new thread, and people will still link back to this thread when they want to dig stuff up and rehash it.
I dont think he wants to close it down, its more about finding out if theres anything related to refunds that is unresolved.
Some will say that the specific state of funds / the new DP USA needs to be clarified, but based on their recent communications I'm quite content.
Looking forward to hearing more about code and hopefully seeing their production begin to ramp in April.
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