(Topic ID: 112377)

DP USA Refund - Still Want the Game


5 years ago

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  • 422 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Xerico
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#400 5 years ago

Unbelievable. I'm away one evening. This is the mother of all pinside threads. You know what they say. There's three sides to a story, theirs, his and the truth. From my experience, each side has some truth to it with a sprinkling of bullshit to sway opinion. I wanted to be in on the so bad but something always held me back. I'm glad I don't have a vested interest in this shit show. Good luck to the pinsiders who do.

#928 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

It's good to hear they cut you off but equally concerning that they would then use your name .

It's more than the fact they are using phils name. The underlying issue is the fact they willfully created a new PayPal account under DP USA. Phils issue with that is his social is attached to the PayPal account used by DP USA. To go further, Phil's issue with DP Euro withdrawing money from DP USA is the fact that they don't have any obligatory responsibilities to DP USA. DP Euro can bankrupt DP USA but not be on the hook to provide any good or services for said money. In essence, people would be forced to sue Phil for fraud. Phil is in a terrible position and people defending DP Euro clearly lack even a rudimentary understanding of business liability. What I find most troubling if true, is DP euro created a new DP usa account still using phil's tax Id number (tin) or his social AFTER Phil quit. One has to seriously question DP euro's intentions by continuing to leave Phil on the hook for a company he's frozen out of on all other fronts.

The silence on DP euro's part is inexcusable and unbelievable. Enough with travel excuses. The company has been shaken to its core. There is no time to gather yourself. No time to put spin on anything. The truth only needs someone's mouth to start moving to be told. Who at DP euro is going to start us off...

**this isn't directed at you hwawonya. I just grabbed the first post in context.**

#978 5 years ago

Let's pretend Phil stayed quiet. Himself, Barry and Jaap fight it out behind closed doors. What is the difference? I'll tell you. Hard working pinheads would be uninformed and continue to make payments or signup for a preorder all the while the company is dealing with stakeholder strife that could ultimately lead to losing the licensing. I'm really scratching my head at how anyone could take Phil to task over this. I guess I'm crazy but I prefer seeing my fellow pinheads interests looked after first. Even at the expense of TBL not getting made. I hope it does. I love the game and theme; just not more than fellow pinheads getting dinged for $9,000.00.

#993 5 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

I guess I haven't heard anything that concerns me enough to pull out EXCEPT Phil inciting a panic. License issues can be resolved, and I never expected a Boutique company could 100% make the game without using some of the deposit money to either feed themselves or buy parts (apparently Phil DID think that, and it's admirable but.. was not an expectation I had). Do you think JPOP / SkitB hasn't touched any of that money? Sheesh. It looks like what maybe 11 games worth has been spent per all the posted withdraws and stuff? That seems fine.. Does it mean they can survive a total run on the bank.. no..
It's kind of like Phil was worried about a lot of theoretical (license pulled, run on bank) and is now not satisfied until he makes those risks (all businesses must decide what their acceptable risks are) actually come to fruition
Anyway, Phil.. I did email Barry/Jaap that I don't want you in charge of the $4500 i estimate is in that account (first deposit was navy federal or something, and last deposit when to the new account).. asking that they indeed take the keys away. So, did my part.

That's a fair and level headed retort without attacking. I just wanted to say I appreciate how you responded. Thank you.

As a rebuttal, you may have not heard anything that concerns you but if Phil didn't talk, you wouldn't have known there was any issues. All this could have been avoided if DP euro had been good stewards of yours and others money by removing Phil from DP USA financial assets as he requested.
At the end of the day, you are informed and elect to stay in and I respect that. I'm just glad everyone with a vested interested is afforded the same.

#997 5 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

The difference, in my view, is that DP would have a lot more chance to stay afloat and sort out the licensing issues so that the game has a much better chance of getting made... Or would you say with people bailing out all over the place, the chance of the game getting made is equal?

I can respect that view. I don't agee with it but respect it. I'm guessing that's pretty much the root of it for both side of the coin.

#1202 5 years ago
Quoted from sturner:

why would one partner be liable for the corporation's liabilities and the other two not?

The IRS, lawyers, creditors etc., love to have more than one party holding the bag. The more the merrier in their eyes. Three people just means they have a 2/3's better chance of recovering lost money in a default rather than a entity comprised of one owner.

In the instance of DP USA, there is just Phil because of his social security number. Phil is beholden to DP Euro but the other two are not beholden to DP USA. Their actions at DP Euro directly affect phil at DP USA. At least that is what Phil has stated.

#1275 5 years ago
Quoted from pinghetto:

I got the email. Love finally hearing from them. But, right now, I could give a shit about the game or the f*cking license. I want to know where my money is. Once we get that solved, then let's talk about how awesome the game is going to be and I can decide if I will be reinvesting with DP. Until that gets answered, this customer is becoming more and more unlikely to order again.
After Phil's email weeks ago about quitting..... HOW THE HELL DOES HE STILL HAVE THE KEYS TO THE PAYPAL ACCOUNT. SLOPPY.

Exactly correct. They are either not hearing the communities concerns or choosing not to answer them and are instead trying to wow us with roger. To take your post one step further, why did you use phil's name and social to create a new DP USA PayPal account he is liable for but has no access to.

#1577 5 years ago
Quoted from Benboogaard:

Pfuuu Americans can't read.

Aren't you a class act.

Quoted from Cenobyte:

Don't make it look so black and white, like they're on a tropical island spending all these thousands on chicks & booze.

No one is saying that. Zero, zilch, nada. You are going overboard trying to marginalize legitimate concerns about how money is being handled in house. Stop it. You have made some valid rebuttals; now your coming off as a homer.

#1788 5 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

What if the reason they didn't want Phil to leave is because Phil made a mess of the business and that's w He seemed responsible for the USA business and also posted that there may be an issue with the IRS. If that's the case then maybe that's why they wanted him to get out so easily. That would be a good deal: first mess up the company and then leave... After this the USA company is even in more problems, so I somehow get why they didn't just let him leave. Also taking over an Inc. when you're Dutch is probably not that easy and will take time...

I'm losing intrest in this topic but...

So you're supposing he made a mess of DP USA and potentially created an IRS issue and they STILL left him holding the purse strings to DP USA deposits? Surely you can see how flawed that logic is and if true, only further demonstrates that any perceived misdeeds wasn't mutually exclusive to Phil's actions. I don't see how this can be spun to anything other than piss poor corporate management on everyone's part. It only serves to justify people's concerns in DP's ability to be good stewards of the money sent to them regardless of the figurehead.

#1847 5 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

We just don't know... it's all speculation after hearing just one side of the story...

I respect your position. Don't agree with it but that's what makes the world great.

Perhaps we can agree on one faucet. That would be DP Euro left Phil with access to PayPal monies over a month after it was publicly quit. Thats something we do know. That's not speculation on anyone's part. It's an immutable fact.

#1870 5 years ago
Quoted from Monster_Bash:

You say he 'quit' like he was just an employee. This whole shitstorm is about Phil not being taken off the 'partnership' in a timely matter.
As far as I know right now Phil is still part of DP USA until whatever paperwork\legal\new partnership\whatever gets worked out.
As someone that was involved in almost the exact same thing (wanted out of a profitable 'business' and forfeiting my share of the profits and contributions with 2 other people) it's not just 'I quit'. It took quite a bit of time to get it done..well over 6 months.
With all due respect..Phil should have started protecting his family day one..and not use his personal information (IE: SSN) in a business venture. Not only is that Business 101..it's Common Sense 101

Whether Phil can just quit or not, he did. To leave him with access to people's money is irresponsible.

We can play the what if game all day. In the end DP has a fiduciary responsibility to is clients and they mishandled it. I'm not saying they're bad guys with ill intent; they simply handled it poorly. Every company should have exit strategies for the principles involved. THAT is business 101. Why we're debating that point or thumbing me down over it is perplexing at best.

#1874 5 years ago
Quoted from Monster_Bash:

I'm sorry..but this is completely wrong...

Great retort. So business don't have exit strategies? I know I have one. Are you saying money wasnt mishandled? As you said Phil can't quit so he is DP right? So again where am I wrong. Enlighten me on how DP euro can wash their hands of responsibility of the Phil situation. My guess is you are assuming I am attacking DP. I want the game. I also want them to demonstrate I can trust them with my money. I'm not sure why you're taking this personal. At the end of the day I respect your differing take on it as well as the others that feel similarly and I have expressed that in my posts. I don't think you are affording me the same courtesy.

#1885 5 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Totally agree. However, how do we know that DP didn't try to deny him access to the DP USA paypal account, and it proved difficult since that account was in Phil's email and Phil's SSN.
You would think they would know all the passwords and what not to be able to have access to it, but we also have noted that we believe they messed up other things that are business 101 already.

Agreed. Phil very likely is denying access to the account. That is where DP euro needs to step up, whether through the courts and an injunction or mediation. In the end Phil exposed weaknesses in their corporate structure that need immediate rectification to instill trust. Before all this, the perception was DP had their shit together and were doing it the right way. That illusion is gone. The time is now to restore the faith they once had in the buying public.

**edit a post above me from Barry indicates Phil is withholding the passwords. Bully on him and bully on DP euro. If they were 1/3 partners in DP usa there is absolutely no reason everyone didn't have access to that account.**

#1891 5 years ago
Quoted from goatdan:

If the risk was listed as 100% in Phil's name (thanks to my SSN being used in the account), why doesn't he have the right to deny them access to the account? Not saying that they would, but if the other principals took the money out of the account with no intention to send those people machines, it is going to show up as 100% on Phil's back.

I agree. Please don't take me wrong. I'm not passing judgement. If I was on the hook 100% I would probably do the same. Still doesn't change that it should have never been that way in the first place. It goes to further illustrate the mismanagement of the customers money from the get go.

#1994 5 years ago
Quoted from LITZ:

I wish we could nuke this thread and put it out of its misery before reaching 2K posts.

adam bomb this thread.jpg 32 KB


Or Atom bomb?

1 week later
#2291 5 years ago

Slight of hand. Distract the buyers with the tshirt (shiny light) promised forever ago.

#2322 5 years ago
Quoted from Erik:

Did you guys find the front DP logo on your shirt is not centered but offset nearer the left manteat?

Maybe your manteat's are lopsided causing it to be off centered .

#2324 5 years ago

Haha. You're on your own brother.

#2331 5 years ago
Quoted from bemmett:

I'd like to know what "reversal canceled" means, does that mean I got refunded and un-refunded

Maybe it's dutch for "sike"

#2566 5 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

If anything is a miss in the books, by fault of DP or Phil he will find it.

Until we know if he has an equity stake, I don't see how that calms the waters. Devil's advocate: so let's say he does find something. Then what? How is he going the force DP to correct it. Don't forget, it was phil's assertion that it was two against one. He was out voted. I'm not sure, given the information we have, how this addition changes anything on that front. Time will tell. Until we are told Phil's interest in the company has been dissolved that issue is still hanging out there.

#2593 5 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

So the code is very near completion from the version that was at expo? If this is true I wasn't that impressed with the code in the video I saw.

I don't believe that's accurate. DP went out of their way to be sure everyone knew the games at expo we pre-alpha. I highly doubt the code at expo is anywhere near complete.

#2605 5 years ago
Quoted from calvin12:

This displays actually stated it was pre alpha code.

Yep, I was there and played it.

1 week later
#2814 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

Actually I see it as a Justification of Phil's speak about the license. Previously that type of notification wasn't there and if you believe what he wrote was discounted by the other 2 head gentleman. Now of course Roger is involved and he wouldn't allow any non conformity so I think they no longer are playing games which is a good thing but definitely shows some merit in what Phil said initially.

Quoted from Curtis_Playfield:

You don't slap a huge sticker over the main characters if "everything is worked out". You put the sticker over the images if Universal has a problem with how you're executing the license.

I agree on both accounts. This is a clear indication that DP was doing things without approval. Perhaps those quick to lynch Phil should give pause and consider that a portion of his greivances were justified. Either way, there are outstanding issues out there that DP is trying to rectify and everything isn't smooth sailing just yet.

#2994 5 years ago
Quoted from Curtis_Playfield:

Also I'm no dude, I'm an overweight stoned looking meth addict woman, you must not read enough Pinside

Mom? Is that you? When did you join pinside?

#2998 5 years ago

Just trying to lighten the mood. No harm meant.

#3009 5 years ago
Quoted from aeonblack:

just give me a refund... or suck d**** in an alley to get me money

She can help with that.

2 weeks later
#3368 4 years ago
Quoted from calvin12:

There was a reason, I felt like you deserved it for your bad reasoning

So name calling is justified so long as you deem the persons reasoning bad? So what derogatory name shall we call you? In all seriousness, your abrasive quips and tough guy posting makes most of your valid points get negated. Lighten up man.

1 week later
#3577 4 years ago
Quoted from thedefog:

You also can't give a company a morality pass just because they're making something you want.

Spot on. It's funny to watch one guy bag on a preorder he's not in on the call someonelse out in a thread for a preorder they are in on. I can't figure it out. On both sides. The blind allegiance or the unfounded animosity. People are fucking crazy. Flat out crazy.

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