(Topic ID: 112377)

DP USA Refund - Still Want the Game


By JDinNOVA

5 years ago



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  • 3,821 posts
  • 422 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Xerico
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#55 4 years ago

Happened to me too. But I'm not going to just completely make shit up as to why in the meantime. I will wait for and answer and go from there.

#58 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Come on man. That's no fun. Make shit up!

Normally I would, but I don't make shit up on Shabbos.

#123 4 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

I'm not recommending anyone do it but how many of you who got refunded are taking this as an opportunity to bail?

Im not bailing yet, but I'm definitely in no rush to reprocess my payment either.

13
#139 4 years ago

It's now officially a shit show.

#180 4 years ago

Scorched earth.

#189 4 years ago
Quoted from burningman:

What makes you think that your money is any less safe than it was yesterday?
Companies...not just pinball companies use their assets to fund projects. This is no different.
All that has really happened is someone decided to send deposits back that were not requested.

And a former employee (and a current shareholder of DP USA) is accusing his former employers/partners of theft, deception, and outright lying.

#447 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Check out what happened in Austrilia with Bumper in 2013. Any time you have neither your money or your item you are exposed. The ability to get a refund is limited by the solvency of the entity that is holding your money...an entity that may have big over head like salaries...

Agreed. This is the statement in this thread that has me the most worried:

Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

that Barry had taken the €60,000. Jaap and I realized that we had no choice but to put back the money ourselves. I started buying parts from all over the world on my credit cards. Shipped stuff on my personal fedex account. all to cover his theft.
keep in mind, jaap and i had NOTHING to do with bride. this was a koen / barry project, but we knew, if this thing didn't ship, nobody would by TBL.

If this is even remotely true, it's very troubling.

16
#601 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Even if you're not on Phil's side, isn't it crazy to leave a dude who bailed on you in control of the money?

It's insane. One of the very first things you do when an employee/partner leaves a company is to ensure that they don't have the ability to access or control the finances. Even more so when it's not a amicable split. The fact that Phil was able to still do so almost a month and a half later is ridiculous.

#1239 4 years ago

They can bring in whoever they want. They're going to have to move forward without my money. If they get the game built, I will buy one then. I'm off this preorder train.

#1254 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Dutch Pinball has called in The Wolf!

the-wolf-pulp-fiction.jpg 25 KB

Is he also an accountant?

#1273 4 years ago
Quoted from JDee:

Funny thing is that if everybody asks for a refund, they'll no longer have funds and collapse.
They're doom'd anyway.

They weren't even smart enough to prevent a guy who no longer works with them from sending back unrequested refunds. Not exactly inspiring confidence.

#1324 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

IMHO the bottom line is whatever could have been done differently is done now. Phil has cancer, he's in a jammed spot, and he's just doing what he can to get out. It's not about good guys and bad guys. We don't need to choose sides here, it's cool to want the game to be built and for the guy to take care of his health.
Japp and Barry have to divest themselves of Phil. It's what he wants, but it's also what Dutch Pinball needs. No one is going to feel comfortable until that's settled. Simple or complicated figure that shit out, and make it a priority. We don't need to know the tax details, not our problem, been enough over sharing. Just make sure you do it right and can reassure everyone.
So DP, get Roger on Universal, we all know he can handle that shit. Listen to him if he tells you to stop taking world tours with unapproved machines ffs. And get Phil out of there.
Then he can focus on trying to beat a bitch of a disease, and you can focus on trying to build a bad ass bitch of a game. This is drama, but no one wants it to be the end of anything.

Good post. They should have done all that six weeks ago too.

#1340 4 years ago
Quoted from zucot:

Is it wrong that im secretly hoping to have my place in line bumped up a bit?

Hell no!

#1727 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

Phil said this, you can still see it in this thread:

Barry had taken the €60,000. Jaap and I realized that we had no choice but to put back the money ourselves. I started buying parts from all over the world on my credit cards. Shipped stuff on my personal fedex account. all to cover his theft.

So I don't think Pinside is applying any twist... Theft is the word he used.

I can't believe some people don't even realize this was said. This is the part that worries me the most. If it is true, it should scare the shit out of everyone who supports the project. (I understand that's a big "IF", but the accusation from Phil cannot be simply brushed away)

Edit: Full post from phil below:

Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

that Barry had taken the €60,000. Jaap and I realized that we had no choice but to put back the money ourselves. I started buying parts from all over the world on my credit cards. Shipped stuff on my personal fedex account. all to cover his theft.
keep in mind, jaap and i had NOTHING to do with bride. this was a koen / barry project, but we knew, if this thing didn't ship, nobody would by TBL.

#1738 4 years ago
Quoted from swf127:

Without knowing what he did with the cash, how can you make a judgment on whether it was reasonable or not? Even if he took the 60,000 as an officer loan and had a note on the books, does that equate to theft? If he did that and then converted it to salary, would that make it theft? You're pre-ordering a machine from the company, not buying the right to tell them how to run it. Being stupid with your money is one of the prerogatives you're ceding to them when you pre-order. That's one of the core issues here. Right now, it's a he-said, she-said and will likely stay that way.

I didn't make the judgement as to whether or not it was theft. The former employee (and current partner of DP USA) did. The same guy who (insanely) still had the ability to refund thousands of dollars six weeks after announcing he was leaving. All of that is very worrying.

I don't need to control the company (in fact, I don't want to whatsoever). But from what I've seen, I have no interest in giving out money with these issues out there.

#1826 4 years ago
Quoted from Fishbeadtwo:

After reading this whole thread(and having bleeding eyeballs) I have decided to weigh in on this. The Seattle Pinball Museum is fully supportive of Dutch Pinball, The Big Lebowski pinball game and would like to here and now invite everyone to come play the game of the decade @ the Seattle Pinball Museum in 2015. We have full confidence the current issues will be overcome and the game will be produced. The SPM also wishes the best to Phil in his battle with the big C and prays for a full and complete recovery. That being said, fuck it, let go bowling.

Nice! So you're keeping your pre order? I would love to come play it myself. (And buy one too)

2 weeks later
#2510 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

My take on it is that Phil made some screw up that was going to cause problems to him (and possibly his family) and he wanted out... DP didn´t let him out because they wanted him to sort out the mess, so he created this mess in the hope that DP would finally let him go because they could see he was damaging business

So your take is essentially "I'm going to completely make shit up"?

1 month later
#3262 4 years ago
Quoted from burningman:

Ozno...this is Don. Please pm me your information, I will personally handle your refund request when we are authorized to do so. In your PM please supply me with your Name and order number.

It says you've joined the team of DP USA along with Jeff. So payments in the future will continue to be made to DP USA?

#3294 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Shhhhhhh. Don't tell Phil.

Quoted from Mr68:

Yep. Exactly as the Fanboy Phil Club has done.

In the past week, you are the only person in this thread who has been mentioning Phil. Most of us have moved on from that discussion, and it looks like DP is attempting to as well. Please let it go.

#3299 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Two comments? Really?

Two comments is more than anyone else, and I have little doubt more would be on their way. And referring to people as the "Fanboy Phil Club" is just another way to get people rehashing an old argument.

1 week later
#3538 4 years ago

Does this mean that DP USA is being liquidated and all future payments are going through DP Pinball BV? Or are orders still being processed through Dutch Pinball USA (like the DP web site) says?

Sorry if this has been answered but I was wondering if they are maintaining a US company and warehouse location.

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