(Topic ID: 112377)

DP USA Refund - Still Want the Game


5 years ago

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  • 422 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Xerico
  • Topic is favorited by 51 Pinsiders


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#328 5 years ago

Got to the party a little late tonight. Just plowed through the 7 pages. Not nearly as fun as my fake preorder thread oh so long ago....

My latest payment (I finished up payments 4,5, and 6 a couple weeks ago) was refunded ($4500) but not the original payments. Where are they?

Probably sticking around for now, but there are a couple of things that matter to me now in the over-shared story.

I would like the licensing issues to get a little cleaned up and some proof that it has been. Doesn't seem like there are irreconcilable differences there yet, but a little transparency on the status is called for now.

Would also like to see Phil completely out from a legal perspective. Very sloppy handling on DP's part to leave a disgruntled partner in place with keys to a lockbox. I cannot believe that my $4500 sent a week or two ago went to a guy (Phil) that was supposedly out of the company. Not good business.

Would like to know what the plan is for the North American partner. Is this something that DP is actively looking for?

Lastly, I would like my Tshirt.

#344 5 years ago
Quoted from Erik:

Wow DP, if you guys lose RTR, you fucked it up! You fucked it up!!

At ease Erik, I am not lost. Still have 4k in and no refund request.

#345 5 years ago
Quoted from ZenTron:

Can we preorder BTTF from DP yet?

I don't care who you are, that was funny.

#349 5 years ago

Not a very classy way to handle a departure in general, but hey that's just my opinion man.

Timing it on the NY trip seems to be a bit vindictive or revengeful. Timed to make the biggest splash, most difficult to address by the DP crew in attendance.

Hitting this thread up with all the posts was gasoline on the fire in a forum that eats that kind of shit like candy.

DP's communications (if not timely) are at least professional and not contributing to the Springer show atmosphere. Give them a little time to catch their breath and get the concerns addressed.

#945 5 years ago

If TBL tanks, and I don't think it will, it will be in large part to Phil's recent actions.

You can't set a building on fire, pull a few people out and then claim to be a hero.

#970 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

poor analogy...
To me it sounds more like the building was already engulfed in flames and everyone was on sleeping pills and Phil was kind enough to yell "FIRE" and pull out who he could while putting himself in more danger the whole time.
Sounds like a hero to me?

I still think it is pretty good. Nothing Phil has described yet is (or was) insurmountable.

Main thing seems to be the license. And at some point they were headed towards a bitch slap from Universal which would cause them to redesign some artwork. Big deal.

Also, Phil hasn't resolved himself of anything. In fact, if the ship does go down, DP BV would probably want Phil attached at this point, to share in the liability. From their point of view, everything Phil has mentioned was resolvable and Phil's actions have caused any problem that was there to be worse.

#980 5 years ago
Quoted from Jakenjoi:

Phil is only resorting to the ripcord after substantial efforts to resolve this mutually. Taking it to court is going to take time AND money, time being precious to Phil and money that Barry doesn't have.
Edit: Unless you preorder people want him to spend more of YOUR money to pay for a lawyer.

Hiring a lawyer to negotiate the ending of a bad business deal does not usually entail a courtroom. Unless Phil is looking to keep some money on the way out and DP disagrees with the terms or amount. Phil probably (and rightfully) wants to be reimbursed for his expenses. He said himself he is only foregoing his 'future' profit in the company.

In fact, given Phil's state of mind and other priorities, having an attorney handle this is probably the best course of action for him and his family. Not to mention that Phil is not an attorney and may be making his situation worse.

#1026 5 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

'resolvable' if both parties were participating... and that was the problem. Party 2 was ignoring party 1 and dragging party 1 down with their unilateral decisions.
Its like being dragged around on a leash... you can chose not to to walk, but the leash still drags you forward. That's what was happening here.

Dude - I was referring to the license issues and ongoing business as being resolvable and not the business relationship between Phil and DP.

As far as the business relationship between DP and Phil goes, well that has been toast for a while. In fact, I thought it was done 6 weeks ago with Phil's abrupt departure email. Apparently that was only the 'employment' relationship and Phil is still a shareholder of DP USA.

Right now, all we know is that DP was unwilling to unwind the relationship on the terms that Phil was offering. We don't know the details behind the terms, beyond foregoing 'future profit' on the entity.

I think some new shit needs to come to light.

#1075 5 years ago

All we know right now is that DP was not willing to unwind their business deal with Phil on Phil's terms. We don't know what those terms were or if they involved money. All Phil was willing to throw out in the forum is that he wants out and was willing to forego any 'future' money.

Phil decided to take it to the street and DP does not have that luxury. They seem to be handling the legal matter like a legal matter - without a lot of public comment on it. From their VIP release yesterday:

"We did everything in our power to settle issues in a normal way with Phil, but unfortunately he decided to take matters in his own hands and is doing whatever he's doing for reasons we don't know. We really regret your involvement in this situation and we hope we can settle this as soon as possible so we can focus on fun things again.

Our goal is to make awesome games. This will not be changed or damaged by an individual who just wants to discredit our success and/or our project(s)."

I am giving them time to "settle this as soon as possible" and then relay a message to us. Anything additional they could say at this point would be along the same lines as the statement above. I am pretty sure they are consulting an attorney and an attorney would tell them to keep public and private communications to a minimum.

#1321 5 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

While we've only heard one side to this story, the fact that barry and Jaap aren't coming on here to defend themselves implies guilt does it not? If these were lies, wouldn't they want to defend themselves?

Oh sure, because we all know that public threads on Pinside are the best place to settle differences.

#1328 5 years ago

From DP:
We want to reach out to you about the current situation involving the rumours on Pinside. We are aware of the thread and the worries over Dutch Pinball and The Big Lebowski project. It really hurts us that you are involved in this situation, which is something that should be settled in a professional, business manner. Unfortunately, we had no control over our customers being involved and we regret what is happening now. We want to assure you that we are very busy handling this situation privately and in the best possible way without discrediting anyone. As soon as we can share more information publicly, we will do so.

We know there has also been some recent speculation regarding the status of our very exciting pinball project and want to assure everyone that everything is under control without any problems. To that end, we have brought in Roger Sharpe, acclaimed licensing and marketing expert, to help us as we continue with our final approval process. Roger has extensive experience having worked on all of the Williams and Bally pinball licensing for over 12 1/2 years and his personal relationships with all of the movie studios ensures that we are right on target to bring everyone the best possible pinball product. Our apologies for any concerns that had been raised but know we are still on course and will continue to meet our deadlines and promises.

Please keep in mind that we are the guys that brought three awesome prototypes to Expo in October and to Modern Pinball NYC last weekend. We wouldn't been doing that if we had any bad intentions or wanted to defraud anyone. The only reason this is happening now is because of something that shouldn't be discussed publicly.

Again, we want to make an awesome game - and with this going on, we are even more motivated to do so.

We will answer all of your emails in the next couple of days/weeks, but we first need to deal with this situation and keep our focus on getting you your games.

#1329 5 years ago

Not sure how much more they can do or say to make everyone happy. That's good enough for me for now. Will be nice to hear the wrap up after Roger weighs in and the business stuff is taken care of, but that will take time.

#1335 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Yup just like the post two pages back.

No, this letter has much different content. I have both. I think it addresses things as much as they are able at the moment. Enough for the people with dogs in the fight, at least for me.

The dogless won't be satisfied, that isn't why they are participating...

#1337 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Edit: worth reposting..

It wasn't a re-post. Read it. It just came out a few minutes ago.

#1346 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Dang its similar but different. Whats the difference besides wording?
I dont get the multiple versions of the same statement??

They added Roger Sharpe to the mix to address the licensing issue, which for all practical purposes is the only deal killer issue they are dealing with, reduced cash flow from refunds notwithstanding.

Other than that, they are treating it like the legal matter that it is - privately.

2 weeks later
#2373 5 years ago
Quoted from DnDPins:

1) Phil (USA Partner) got nervous of business practices and potential licensing issues and unilaterally issued refunds to USA customers (Phil wants out of DP and his intention to leave is being met with resistance)
2) Phil aired details which made everyone nervous about the kind of organization their $$$ are tied up with
3) A "run on the bank" ensued and many are waiting on refunds
4) DP has been way too silent and have not properly addressed things
5) It is questionable whether DP will be able to survive and if TBL will actual get made
How did I do everyone?

1-3 and most of 4 are correct. 5 is just conjecture at this point.

And you left off 6-7:

6. DP hiring Roger Sharp to address the single biggest issue - the license. And nothing has indicated since that time that anything is lost.

7. Some of the money is apparently being held in the USA account that is still under Phil's control and DP cannot get at it. This may be related to some refunds not being issued as yet.

8. DP made a response that indicated they are trying to work out details of Phil's departure, which includes the release of funds that are still under Phil's control. Since that announcement, Phil has gone from over-share mode to silent. So it seems like they are trying to work things out privately like they should have in the first place.

3 weeks later
#3027 5 years ago

So, what's crackin' dudes? Anything happen while I was gone?

1 week later
#3325 4 years ago

If you were not expecting a pre-pay start up company to have some bumps in the road, then you should not have sent money.

I think they are working through it adequately, just my opinion. Granted, not to everyone's satisfaction.

Imagine, if you can , that the majority of their customers are not pinsiders....

1 week later
#3545 4 years ago

It seems like people are getting their refunds, pretty much as promised.

Hard to predict that a partnership goes sideways and the partner is going to tie up funds. Apparently they worked through it, granted not in spectacular fashion, but worked through it nonetheless. And people are getting their refunds.

Not sure about the pinballnazi stuff, haven't seen any independent verification of that yet. Not sure what the communication was between Barry and the requesters. Could some of it warrant a refusal of service? Sure it could, but would have to be extreme I guess.

Do I have a problem with refund requesters going to the back of the line? Nope. If refund requesters are blacklisted from ever buying, that is a problem. I doubt that is enforceable or actually happening though.

FYI - I was fully paid up, Phil refunded $4500 ($4500 was my most recent single payment) without a request from me. Today I received an email that basically said - no prob, catch back up by March 1 and I retain my place in line.

Post edited by RTR

Post edited by RTR: phil gave the refund obviously, not barry

#3634 4 years ago

Eggbert is not a golfer.

#3646 4 years ago

Whoa - I forgot who eggbert was! Man, he must be really upset that this is no longer a dream!

Why would he even show up in another of these threads?

Where do all these Debbie downers come from?

#3648 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I keep thinking back to the mysterious announcement in Chicago 2013, followed a year later by three playable machines at the same show. They obviously had a butt load of work already accomplished before announcing. These guys know how to prepare. We'll see.

They only have to get one out the door by June 30th to make good on the date. It could happen!

#3653 4 years ago
Quoted from whitey:

I hope this game gets done ,I would buy one today.Anyone know who is the largest distributor ?
Shipping ? Thanks

You are like a child that wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know...image.jpg

#3654 4 years ago

Sorry dude, couldn't resist.

Everything you need to know about buying can be found at www.dutchpinball.com if you are serious.

#3710 4 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

It's amazing that you guys press the tilt function for boobies because God forbid your kids are in the room and yet you let the illegal marijuana pictures run wild with no opposition. Nice parenting.

Dude, do you have anything better to do?

#3765 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

It is legal in Austin, Tx too (written into city law).
We have topless protests here often


#3774 4 years ago

I don't believe they jacked the price up.

#3806 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

Cool! Eggbert promoted Hwawonyu to moderator. Congrats, dude!

HWawonyu slipped eggbert some of that Leesburg Skunk to get the promotion...

#3808 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Careful, I hear there's a piss test.

It's not a big deal, turns out it's an accuracy test. Just have to be able to hit a rug.

#3812 4 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

hey, thats "age-ist"... old guys aren't quite as accurate as they were in their yute...

At least it's not a distance test!

#3818 4 years ago

^^thats funny Litz, I guess you aren't allowed to get change?

#3819 4 years ago
Quoted from HENSBROOKER:

Hey RTR... I really wonder who are the drop out (non-believers) of your list. Any time to sort it?

I will try and edit the title of my last list thread and start striking out the non-achievers and see how that goes. So get ready to help me out everybody!!!

#3820 4 years ago

Changed my mind, I started a new thread. Didn't want to modify the old thread too much.


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