(Topic ID: 112377)

DP USA Refund - Still Want the Game


5 years ago

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#250 5 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

More hypothesis: DP was trying to work out an arrangement with Phil, but Phil got annoyed with the process and took matters into his own hands by issuing refunds (and removing himself completely from TBL project) without DP knowing he was going to do it. Kinda like how he quit DP in the first place

Looks like you hit the nail on the head dude!

#596 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

If you can really afford to lose that money, how does it make sense to stay in for the relatively minor cost benefits of doing so?

To help the boat stay afloat... if we all pull out from fear, the chances of the boat sinking will increase, no? If we all bail out, then we don't get TBL... I still have a lot of this saga to read, so sorry if this has been mentioned before... Of course I want my money back if the game's not getting made, but more so I want this project to succeed... pulling out won't help the latter...

#655 5 years ago
Quoted from highdef:

Where is the risk? You can always get a refund up until the game ships.

And how do you do that? You just ask, and it comes? I believe people have asked for a refund up to a week ago and heard nothing. Yes, Phil's been issuing refunds without people asking for them, but for the rest of us who didn't get a refund through Phil, I can't see DP coughing up... maybe I'm wrong... I certainly haven't tried to get a refund yet... Although my wife is pushing me to ask for one... I still want the pin... bailing out isn't going to help make that happen... Saying that, if I had got a refund through Phil, I'd probably hang on to it!!

#697 5 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

No Goodman callouts in the game means a VERY different game than most were anticipating. That's a BIG one.

Can't they just make the game with a bad voice-over to get it out of the door, and then buyers can change the voices to Goodman's voice using one of the various clever software tools out there... I didn't say that...

Quoted from lllvjr:

Listen to ur wife... If shit goes wrong she will hang it over ur head lol

You got that one right!! You seem to know my wife very very well!! I will NEVER live it down!!

#724 5 years ago
Quoted from gamestencils:

The instant you show a product prototype or not with unapproved content and someone opts to preorder, you've just sold a product illegally and likely also deceptively.

But if you sell a refundable pre-order for the game, are you actually selling the game? If the person placing the pre-order can back out before the game hits production, and that person is told what the final version of the game will be like, he can then get a refund if he's not happy with the changes... so the buyer doesn't get stung, and in the end the licencing is all in order... Personally I'd prefer a TBL with Austin Powers doing the Goodman callouts than no TBL at all... and no cash because the company has gone belly-up!

Quoted from vid1900:

Someone might even release a secret torrent file that has the entire soundtrack with bands that are generally never licensed (like CCR, Santana, Eagles and others that are missing from the movie soundtrack CD), and replaced movie quotes.


#752 5 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

You can't publically display unlicensed content, period.

I think you can... and I think they did... It might not be strictly legal, but if no-one notices it might not such a big problem if the issues are sorted out before the game hits production... unless a good friend publicises on a massive pinball forum, that might get it some attention

That's what I don't understand about Phil's words... he says the guys at DP are good friends, and he wishes them the best of luck and success at getting TBL made, but at the same time he seems to be doing everything in his power to trash the companies reputation by claiming publically that the main guy there is a thief... I can understand him getting worried about the legal implications of them not playing by the rules and wanting out, but if he genuinely wishes them success, why write such damning words on here that's going to help drive them into the dirt?

#870 5 years ago
Quoted from jrawlinson_2000:

For me if the call-outs are lacking due to the Goodman licence issue then I'm out!

Someone will come out with an underground ROM upgrade to put them back in, don't worry!

Personally, if I were Phil, and if I saw DP really as my friends, and if I really wanted DP to be successful and TBL to be a success, as Phil said he does, then the way I'd have gone about getting their attention while at the same time pulling myself out from the burden of having the cash in an account I don't want responsibility for, then I'd have made the refunds with a calming note explaining why I'm doing it, but at the same time trying not to freak the customer out, but also advising that there are some licensing issues that need sorting out... I'd also refrain from posting to a public forum that Barry is a thief... Why would I do that if he's my friend and if I want DP to be successful? Also, if I was thinking of my future life on this planet and wanted it to be as calm as possible, for myself and my family, I also wouldn't stir things up and open myself to liable action from making accusations about things that could be dis-proven... Maybe Barry had rights to those funds as being profit from BOP 2.0, maybe he'll want to take legal action against Phil... What benefit is it to Phil OR to DP to state these things?? Phil wants DP and TBL to be a success right? So I just don't get his actions if that's true, and I don't understand how making these statements helps his family... Surely it can only cause problems to him and to DP... no?

#875 5 years ago
Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

I even told Barry that I would write a nice text about how we just wanted to transfer the funds from my PayPal account to his PayPal account.

I'm a bit puzzled, I don't know how these PayPal accounts work... so the only way to clear the account you are responsible for is to refund the people who paid in..?? It wasn't possible to just transfer the funds to DP NL, as you gave the option to Barry... he had to accept before the system would allow it? I understand Barry is now trying to get those funds, but you don't want him to... so you want to transfer the funds to DP NL, but at the same time you don't want DP NL to get the funds?? I'm very confused?? Another thing that's confusing me is how does publically stating that he's a thief help either DP (who you wish success to) or yourself... or anyone?

#877 5 years ago

I'm struggling to see any inadvertentness (or is it inadvertence...?) myself...

#883 5 years ago
Quoted from F3TT:

I'm shocked some of you people are trying to paint Phil as the "bad guy" here.

I want DP and TBL to be a success... I don't see how Phil's actions have contributed towards that... By the way, I didn't say he was bad, I'm just asking him questions... The questions is, as-yet un-answered... how is stating that Barry is a thief helping DP, himself, his family or anyone? It's a question, not a statement that someone is bad...

#886 5 years ago
Quoted from F3TT:

If he just transferred the money, he would still be liable because the money was paid to HIS account. Refunding the money takes him off the hook.

Ah, I see... so he had to make the refunds and then the people he refunded would then have to re-pay into the DP NL account... I'm now puzzled why he didn't write the nice text as he offered to... not getting a reply to this offer is a strange reason to shoot the company down...

Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

I even told Barry that I would write a nice text about how we just wanted to transfer the funds from my PayPal account to his PayPal account.

I think you should have done this...

#888 5 years ago
Quoted from F3TT:

Hello, McFly! That's been Phil's WHOLE POINT! These people don't know how to run a business!

So stating publicly that they are thieves is teaching them how, yes?

#889 5 years ago
Quoted from F3TT:

That wasn't directed at you specifically. I've read this from start to finish, and I never saw Phil use the word thief.

If he said someone stole 60,000euro, that IS saying he's a thief...

Quoted from F3TT:

They essentially forced him to do this.

That is clearly the picture Phil is painting on here... Sure, it will help his friends and TBL succeed... thanks Phil, I feel my deposit more secure now... you are my hero

#894 5 years ago
Quoted from F3TT:

I think you read too much into that. He used the word "taken."

The whole sentence was: "Barry had taken the €60,000. Jaap and I realized that we had no choice but to put back the money ourselves." So do you think he's saying that Barry took it legitimately as part of his salary? If so, why did Japp and him have to put the money back in?? The implication is that it was taken illegitimately.... i.e. stolen! This is very clear from what he said... why even comment on him taking money? I ask Phil again: What/who is this statement helping?? Does it help you? Does it help you family? Does it help DP? Does it help the TBL project? Does it help the pinballers who pitched in their deposits because they want the game? Or does it help the demise of DP and TBL?

#897 5 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

But I don't think everyone will want a refund and things should be fine to get TBL off the ground.

I hope you're right... Then the people who stay in will have a rarer game

People who got refunded by Phil will hold on to their cash (mainly), and I don't blame 'em... fear will make them do it... fear created by the panic that Phil, I suggest, has caused... I don't want to bail out because I don't want the ship to sink... they can work things out, but for the project to work, they need those who gave them the hope that it would work to stay on-board... Phil is not helping that cause...

#930 5 years ago
Quoted from scott_freeman:

...Does it help you family? ...

He makes it clear, he is protecting his family from future harm.

Yes, by refunding money, those specific customers will not sue his family in a court of law.

You have quoted me out of context! I wasn't asking how the refunds help his family, I was asking how implying that Barry is a thief is helping his family... Do you think it's fair to quote people out of context and pretend they're asking a different question?

This is what I said:

Quoted from pinballslave:

The implication is that it was taken illegitimately.... i.e. stolen! This is very clear from what he said... why even comment on him taking money? I ask Phil again: What/who is this statement helping?? Does it help you? Does it help you family?

Even the typo 'you' instead of 'your' is there... so I clearly am NOT asking is returning the money protecting his family... if you're going to quote someone, please quote the whole thing or you make people look like idiots.

OK, some mails back Phil said that he had asked Barry permission to write a nice letter explaining to everyone why he was making the refund and urging them to stick in and redirect their deposits to DP NL... Barry didn't reply... Phil then did what he did (without Barry's permission)... why is it necessary to need permission to do it the nice way, but fine to do it the nasty way without permission??

#935 5 years ago
Quoted from bigehrl:

spoiled 12 yo girl who didn't get a pony for her birthday, so she's holding her breath, stomping her foot and telling the neighbors that her daddy touched her.

Classic man, I'll have to remember that one!

Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

this is my credit history, and if i die, my shares in dP USA go to my wife and kids. i wont give them this burden. dont make me choose!!!!!!

answer your fiucking phone or i will report you for fraud man

Maybe you should have done it the nice way dude, even if Barry didn't say OK... ?

#940 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

how you could possibly suggest someone keeps their money in on this is beyond me?

To keep the project alive, despite all that's going on here... maybe he wants a TBL for some reason...

#987 5 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

Let's pretend Phil stayed quiet. Himself, Barry and Jaap fight it out behind closed doors. What is the difference?

The difference, in my view, is that DP would have a lot more chance to stay afloat and sort out the licensing issues so that the game has a much better chance of getting made... Or would you say with people bailing out all over the place, the chance of the game getting made is equal?

#994 5 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

This situation is extremely unprofessional. This is a company matter not something you expose part of on the Internet to slight people against your own company. If any of you think that leaving a company that you helped create, operated as a international organization can be simply walked away from, your crazy. If he truly wanted to leave the company he should have done it in a professional manner and set up everything prior to leaving. Even if the current owners did not want to or are too lazy to, he should have set everything up for them transfer funds as needed and leave the company in a healthy state. At this point he is doing irrevocable damage which is completely unneeded, leaving himself vulinerable, and creating constrination that is uncalled for. If your an adult enough to start a company and be in charge of funds, get your act together, be responsible and when you decide you can't hack it anymore do the proper thing and leave the company in a safe and sound state. I hate it when people just throw their hands up and walk away. Phil was once in a position to handle the funds of the company, he could have left the company in a manner that did not damage his reputation and more importantly the reputation of dp.

But you're from the USA... you're only supposed to be saying that Phil did it wrong if you're from outside the USA!!

#1074 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

Given that there is a stampede for the door right now, to me the only financially responsible thing for an individual to do would be to get their money back and decide once things shake out whether to re-invest.

Of course I can see your point... it's my wife's point too... but I suppose in some crazy way I still believe that despite this total madness that seems to have developed, DP will survive... and by hanging on in there, I'm at least helping it get to that point... the more people that hang on in, the more chance of survival this project has... We have to realise that all of this fire is crated by one man... Who's said a lot... What he's said is scary, and seems to be designed to try and make DP collapse (if he simply wanted out, he could have written a nice letter to the people he decided to refund explaining that they should re-direct their payment to DP BV, as he offered Barry to do... Barry didn't say OK, so he did it the damaging way (also without Barry's OK) and he started a fire, causing people to panic and bail out... You can't tell me his sole purpose was to think of his family... how is starting this fire thinking of them? He seems to have had two purposes: 1) Get out so his family is secure. 2) Make the DP ship sink by scaring people... The more people go the way he's scaring them to, the more chance he has to succeed in objective 2... I'm all for him succeeding in objective 1, but I do want DP to survive this.

United we stand, divided we fall!

#1125 5 years ago
Quoted from MikeHogue:

Phil. Thank you for the refund. Now is the time for you to take care of yourself and family!

Now you've got your refund, Phil can sit easy What about all the others??

#1506 5 years ago

I agree that there should be no privileges for those who bail out and want back in when they see it's all working out fine, then everyone would bail out, and where would that leave DP... there would be no incentive to stay in! I even think there should be more incentive to stay in... like DP promising that there will be no aftermarket rug, for example... the rugs should be limited to people who stick this out... ( or get back in), surplus rugs should be destroyed, this should be their policy! The risk is bigger now by far, so the reward should be too... What's the point in staying in just to get a rug, if you can bail out and buy the rug afterwards... OK, you save a few bucks, but you don't risk losing something special... and that rug will be special! I'm not saying this because I want to deprive people of their rug... I'm saying this because I want people to stay in, so that DP can see we're behind them and will help keep this boat afloat!

They could even make an announcement that due to recent shit, and as an incentive for people to stay on-board, people have until xxx deadline to re-enter their position in the line... after that deadline there will be no more re-entering possible, and all people on-board at that moment will receive the ultra special custom made rug. These rugs will be exclusively for people who are on board at that moment and will not be for sale afterwards... or words to that effect... They need the deposits back from people who got freaked out, and this would be an incentive for people to get back on board...

I can imagine lots of people won't like this idea, especially those who received a refund because it will make them feel uncomfortable about the thought of having to make a decision that could put them at risk again, but the idea is to have an incentive for people to re-assess their situation and re-support DP and TBL.

I'm still in.

#1516 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I really think people are unnecessarily worried about the Goodman part. Maybe that's why the gun has to come off, the weed, I dunno, but they're not going to have him not be in the game as far I understood.

Even if they do have to take him out, voice wise and video-wise, I'm sure some clever person will release an underground code that will have him back in... this will have nothing to do with DP of course and will be totally out of their control!

Quoted from KevinCPR:

Stop putting it on the hobby's shoulders. The boat CAN be kept afloat. This was my other point. It's not the end of the world if they are TRULY into this. All they have to do is this:

So if you think it should be irrelevant whether or not people are in at the pre-order stage, what is the actual reason for this to exist? Surely there is a benefit to the company if people are on-board at this stage, or they wouldn't try and entice people in...? Whatever that benefit is, I'd like that benefit to happen, for the benefit of the benefit...

#1521 5 years ago
Quoted from KevinCPR:

I assume the benefit is not having to touch their own money or put their own skin in the game.

To not have to hold the suggested meeting I described above. The "audacity" to make the game happen on their OWN dime.

Or, another benefit is that if they don't have all the money needed in their private accounts or they can't get sufficient bank loans or credit card loans, then the extra cash from deposits could be what makes or breaks it... this is the real world, and I'm sure these people simply don't have the necessary cash floating about to design and build these games before taking a penny from people who want to buy it... that's why, I believe, the pre-order model is there... and that's why the best chance of survival of this project is for people to not get/stay freaked out by recent events... In an ideal world, the deposits would be un-touched... they would just be there as a form of security for making a specific pre-ordered number of games... but to make something big like this, I don't think it's reasonable to expect the designers to have such amount of cash to pay for it all themselves... I think this is the real world, especially for a boutique designer who is trying to do something special... even more special than Stern who have the capitol to build a game off their own backs...

Quoted from KevinCPR:

Or even for the benefit of the benefit of the benefit !!!

You've lost me now

#1525 5 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

I think he did it so he and his family wouldn't have been held liable for the potential marketing fiasco and sued for millions of dollars.

Did he also accuse Barry of being a thief publically to help avoid being sued for millions of dollars and thus protect his family?

Quoted from KevinCPR:

CPR was started regardless of a single seed dime from the hobby - because when you choose to put your OWN money/credit into your dream project, it happens **because you decided it will**. Period. Full stop. That, you CAN control. It's not based on the potentially shaky influx/outflux of public crowdsourcing funds. When it's your own $$$ , nobody will stop you. Your float won't unexpectedly shrink for some mis-step you may make, or change in direction you may have to take. The public simply sits there waiting for product (without opinion or control), that they decide to buy or not at the end. Oldschool.

That's all well and good if you have the capitol needed to do it off your own back... and if you don't? If what you're planning to achieve costs more than you can afford yourself to fund? I guess I know the answer... don't start... but by not starting, by limiting what you do to what you can afford, you're going to struggle to make something special... unless you happen to be a millionaire...

#1528 5 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

I haven't read every single post, I don't recall reading one that accused anyone of anything.

Well, that's what he did, and I just don't understand how that helps him or his family, despite his actions being apparently for that purpose... If someone can help me understand how this helps, I'll be a wiser man!

Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

The crowd funding idea is a scam in my opinion,

A scam is is basically a deceptive way to take peoples money with no intention of providing what was paid for... are you saying that you don't think DP had any intention to make any machines and were purely taking money from pre-orders to steal? If that's the case, why are we still hearing from them? Surely they'd have shut up shop now and vanished with all our cash? Personally I think they're actually planning to build TBL myself... and then give it to people who paid for it...

#1535 5 years ago
Quoted from Rossz:

You build a business plan, you pitch banks, you get loan(s), and then you start! Sounds easy ? Sure it's not, but that's the way business do (usually).

Sure, you'll have to pay interest on the money lended... but that's also a test: if the bank trusts your project, that's because you thought about it enough and shown enough business management and planning skills. If not... back to the drawing board and make it better.

That's one way to do it... but what we're talking about here, I think, is what's happening with TBL and DP... whether they did it your way (the best way) or not, I feel the situation is that they need the potential customers support... if what they did is not the best way of doing it, is that a good reason to pull out? We want TBL to play in our homes and to enjoy (at least that's why I pre-ordered)... that's what this is about... not about what they should have done or how it's best to do it... Saying how it's best to do it isn't going to help I think... What will help (even if you don't like it) is to show our support by getting back on board, or just staying there...

#1685 5 years ago
Quoted from Cenobyte:

The Germans might invade us and before you know it DP is producing "Mein Fuhrer"...

It's the Russians you want to look out for!!

#1689 5 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

but he still chose to throw it out here as 'theft' (at least I believe he made that accusation).

He didn't. That was pinside applying their own twist.

Phil said this, you can still see it in this thread:

Barry had taken the €60,000. Jaap and I realized that we had no choice but to put back the money ourselves. I started buying parts from all over the world on my credit cards. Shipped stuff on my personal fedex account. all to cover his theft.

So I don't think Pinside is applying any twist... Theft is the word he used.

Quoted from Cenobyte:

So Phil actually said "theft".

Yes, see above... If you search the thread using phil-DP-USA you can see all his posts... is about 8 posts down... Edit: 14 posts down, just checked...

#1697 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Because better now then in the middle of manufacturing frankly.

Si I guess we won't get our 'Kahlua TBL' like we have Marylin Taxi

#1699 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

And the reason Phil did it

The reason Phil did what? Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean...

#1786 5 years ago

What if the reason they didn't want Phil to leave is because Phil made a mess of the business and that's why he wanted out. He seemed responsible for the USA business and also posted that there may be an issue with the IRS. If that's the case then maybe that's why they wanted him to get out so easily. That would be a good deal: first mess up the company and then leave... After this the USA company is even in more problems, so I somehow get why they didn't just let him leave. Also taking over an Inc. when you're Dutch is probably not that easy and will take time...

#1835 4 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

What if the reason they didn't want Phil to leave is because Phil made a mess of the business and that's w He seemed responsible for the USA business and also posted that there may be an issue with the IRS. If that's the case then maybe that's why Phil wanted to get out so easily. That would be a good deal: first mess up the company and then leave... After this the USA company is even in more problems, so I somehow get why they didn't just let him leave. Also taking over an Inc. when you're Dutch is probably not that easy and will take time...

I'm losing intrest in this topic but...

So you're supposing he made a mess of DP USA and potentially created an IRS issue and they STILL left him holding the purse strings to DP USA deposits? Surely you can see how flawed that logic is and if true, only further demonstrates that any perceived misdeeds wasn't mutually exclusive to Phil's actions. I don't see how this can be spun to anything other than piss poor corporate management on everyone's part. It only serves to justify people's concerns in DP's ability to be good stewards of the money sent to them regardless of the figurehead.

Maybe DP were pushed in a corner because of this problem and didn't see letting Phil go and relieve himself of the mess he made as a way to fix the mess... We just don't know... it's all speculation after hearing just one side of the story... DP can't talk about this publically I suppose due to obvious reasons, so we only get to hear one side...

I just saw that in my initial post I said "If that's the case then maybe that's why they wanted him to get out so easily", I should have said "If that's the case then maybe that's why he (Phil) wanted to get out so easily... I was late... I corrected it in the above copy in case anyone has an interest in this possible view...

#1967 4 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

Make it so and add me to the list... I am in it until the end.

I'm in too... all the Dude wanted was his rug back!

#1990 4 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

What you know is the business structure is in shambles and the finances have been misappropriated to another project.

This is an absolute fundamental characteristic of a ponzi scheme.

i.e. dp is running a ponzi scheme and one hospitalized partner is doing everything he can to extricate himself from it.

Now you know something.

Just a cash flow aid dude, chill out... no-one's getting robbed here... who cares what they do with the money providing it all works out in the end

#2050 4 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

THose of you itching to jam your money back in will end up with NOTHING!

I thought they got TBL... That's why they paid, no?

Quoted from SadSack:

Stick a fork in DP. Those of you who got your money back should be thankful you didn't have to go down with the ship. YOu've got these RANK AMATEURS sitting on several hundred grand with only a wish to come through on their promise. So they go out and offer Sharpe a tiny slice of the pie only so they can ride his cred while their ponzi implodes.

Look at their performance on BOP2. Doesn't that tell you anything?

Are you purposefully trying to bring everyone down by your constant negativity? You're worse than my wife! The game will get made and people who stay in will be all the happier because, due to people taking your nonsense to heart and pulling out, the game will be all that rarer... Sorry, shouldn't feed the troll, I know....

DP have a good chance at being the next Bally/Williams, and this will be their first title... I'm glad I'm in, and proud to be part of this epic beginning!

#2056 4 years ago
Quoted from dgpinball:

I've read this whole thing, mostly out of curiousity as I'm not a stakeholder in any way, and had no plans to post, but this last comment just blew my mind!! You really can't be serious, this is a first effort from a company with absolutely ZERO history of making anything and you are comparing them to the company that made the greatest games ever!!

Just going from what informed people have said and from other information regarding components they use to build the game... My understanding is that the build quality and feel of the game resembles Bally/Williams games from peoples comments who played the prototypes... so yes, I am serious... They do have a good chance at achieving this... They have zero history at the moment, I know... that's because this is their first pin... how is it feasibly possible for a company who make their first pin to have any history? Even the best pinball company in the world had to start with a first pin.

Quoted from SadSack:

I'm trying to help people not get screwed. If you like getting screwed, you will not like my comments.

I don't like getting screwed, but I also don't like your comments... not because I like getting screwed, but because I think you are speculating from nothing and are just... don't feed the troll...

#2060 4 years ago
Quoted from tamoore:

Phil acted like kind of a jack-wagon here, but it really has to land at the feet of the other two partners who didn't act when Phil requested they act.

Maybe they had a good reason for doing that that we're not aware of... Maybe Phil has not been totally revealing in his revelation on here... Maybe he's been not revealing certain things that would put him in a bad light and only been revealing things that put DP in a bad light (for whatever reason). Maybe DP have not responded with 'the whole story' because they respect Phil (despite what he said) because they actually see him as a friend, and one who does not deserve attacks or criticism at this stage in his life... maybe that's why we don't hear from DP on here... It's all speculation at the end of the day, and understandably damaging to DP...

#2074 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

Unfortunately, they need a business partner that knows how to run a company, manage licenses, and manufacture a game. What is killing all of the start ups (minus Spooky) is the "design" mentality and disregard for actually following business rules.

OK, lets say that DP are not 'businessmen' like Stern guys... I'm kind of happy about that to be honest... maybe it means we we won't get games with half baked code and games that need 'fix kits' turning up at our door because they're too eager to get the next one churned out, maybe they're also not fixated on profit margins that make them lean towards cheaper components (because they're not businessmen)... The fact that these guys are clearly pinball enthusiasts gives them an edge worth taking a risk in... once this game gets off the ground they'll have learned a few business rules to make the next one go smoother from that aspect. This thread seems to have too many people wanting to kick them down... doesn't the pinball community want a new kid on the block that might have some really excellent games to offer??

#2076 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Why can't they give people refunds out of the other accounts and replenish it with the money Phil has once they get it from him?

That question should really be directed to DP... throwing it out here is only going to give rise to wild speculation and negativity I'm sure... That seems to be the will of most people posting here, for reasons that are baffling to me...

Maybe there are a lot of new accounts being opened to voice negative views on here which seem to be focused on damaging the DP business... Now who would want to do that sort of thing...??

#2183 4 years ago
Quoted from dgpinball:

especially one planning to build something as complex as a pinball machine.

They have already done this, using their own money... Many people saw then at Expo...

#2184 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

but the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow I've come to realize doesn't exist.

I´m assuming this pot of gold you´re referring to is a new manufacturer kicking out quality machines with great code etc... It might not exist at the moment, but then DP have not made TBL yet... Just because something doesn´t exist now, it doesn´t mean it won´t exist ever! Philosophy is´t my strong point, but I´m sure this is true...

Talking of existing, my 5yo daughter came to me recently with her sad voice saying: "Daddy, Ani said I don´t exist...ˇ. I didn´t know how to console her clear distress at this comment from her older sister... so I asked her if she thought she existed herself, she said she did... it seemed to calm her down a bit... later she came out with one of the greatest philosophical statements I´ve ever heard a child come out with: "Someone who is blind can´t see... and someone who doesn´t do a-a (kids speak for shit) doesn´t exist"... The things kids say eh!

1 week later
#2343 4 years ago
Quoted from twominds:

If you are still paying, you are not wise. I requested a refund 2 weeks ago and have not received it. I love pins as much if not more than any of you.

That´s a very bold stratement to make on here... So you know for a fact that no-one on here loves pinball more than you... How do you figure that one out? Bearing in mind that you want to pull your money out of this project out of fear that it might not work out (and by doing so actually increase the chance of it failing) I´m not sure that puts you at the top of the ´love for pinball´ ladder

#2346 4 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Man DP would need a huge positive update/explanation of what the H E double toothpicks is going on

I´m confident that I agree with you too, but I´ve no idea what toothpicks has got to do with it... even double ones... you mean the type where you can use both ends, right...

#2349 4 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Sorry I meant Hell (H E Double toothpicks)

Ahhh, It´s A double toothpicks perfectly clear now

#2365 4 years ago
Quoted from DnDPins:

1) Phil (USA Partner) got nervous of business practices and potential licensing issues

I´d suggest that this is also not fact... more accurately, Phil SAID he got nervous about businass practices and potential licencing issues, but what we don´t know is if this was his actual concern... He could have been saying this for reasons we don´t know... There may have been another reason for him to say this, like a smokescreen to cover somethimg up that he messed up himself... we only have his side of the story...

#2420 4 years ago
Quoted from ozno:

but after I get done talking with Universal, DP won't have a TBL a license.

So what´s your plan dude, pay Universal to pull the liucence on TBL to screw DP and kill the project, or some other cunning plan? Do tell...

Quoted from zucot:

This thread is meaningless BS until the next newsletter goes out.

Probably meaningless bullshit after that too!

OK, here´s a question for all you little urban presumers out there... it has been stated that Phil got nervous of business practices and potential licensing issues and therefore started this whole fiasco... and many have agreed with this idea... my question is: can anyone explain where this knowledge came from? It is simply what Phil said... If all you have to do is say something for it to be fact, then I have a 12" dick! No really, it must be true... I said it

The point is that we don´t know thst Phil actually got nervous about this at all... we just know that he said he did, and that was his ´excuse´ for starting all of this... since then people are bailing ship left right and center... The panic from one man´s words is astounding!

#2432 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

FWIW his story has been the same since he left DP. It just didn't go public until this thread.

One thing I was told as a kid by my parents was that if I´m going to lie, I have to stick to the same story

Quoted from Sjsilver:

but you don't have to believe almost anything he said to find big issues with DP as a company.

Define big. I´m not saying there were no issues at all, but the point is that whatever issues that were there (displaying at expo a not 100% approved game, whatever other claims at a flwaless business practice have been proven) were not harming the business to a significant degree, if any at all... probably helping business. It was also not harming the ability for the game to get made...

What Phil did, however, is having a significant effect on the business... not because of any problems the business had, but because of the widespread panic causing people to pull out... if everyone pulls out, DP will have no customers to pin any hopes of selling a game on... where will that leave them? I got in bacause I want the pin... getting out because of Phil´s panic tactics isn´t going to help anything apart from whatever agenda Phil had for causing the panic... which was NOT to make TBL a success.

#2491 4 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

Getting out will save people thousands of dollars.

If people who got in wanted to get out to save thousands of dollars, why did they get in? Surely those people should not have got in and saved thousands of dollars at the beginning...??

Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

Then DP should have come out and refuted it all with evidence. Now, I realize they don't have to, but I think it would be in their best interest.

Maybe the situation was very delicate, maybe Phil was getting himself into trouble from what he was saying... maybe DP didn´t want to put him further in whatever hole he had got himself into which caused him to make these public outbursts in the first place... the guy has serious health issues, so why would the nice guys at DP want to worsen that by starting a public battle... there´s also the legal side of these claims on a public forum to consider... All I´m saying is that with one side of the story only to consider, it´s a bit premature to base decisions to abandon the project...

I just find it hard to imagine that the only reason Phil wanted out so urgently was because of some concerns over licencing, and some possible other imperfect business practice... he did mention some tax stuff, and with the year end looming... maybe he messed something up on that side of things and realised he was facing a massive tax debt that could put his family at risk, and wanted out because of that, and was using these other issues as an excuse/smokecreen... maybe he thought that if he caused enough trouble to the business, DP would cut him lose and absolve him of the problem he´d caused...

All this bailing out based on this one guys claims is a shame for the progress of TBL...

Happy new year to all!! May we see TBLs in our homes in 2015!!

#2492 4 years ago
Quoted from fattrain:

Q: I didn't get an unrequested refund, but I want a refund now from the DPUSA accounts.
A: We have a list of the refund requests and will process them as soon as we straightened out DP USA Inc.

Quoted from ozno:

But in any case it IS clear that DP isn't brimming with cash. If they were, they would have issued a statement saying that our deposits are being honored. They still refuse to do that.

Doesn´t the above address the issue that you are claiming hasn´t been addressed?

Why you are continuously injecting unfounded negativity into this debate is a mystery to me...

#2496 4 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

I think people believed that DP was a stable company and really thought the game was a go. Turns out not so much. So, the people requesting their money back will receive it, hopefully, rather than it being gone forever later on.

The only thing making DP seem like an unstable and risky company are Phil´s actions, and the panic that that caused via Pinside. The more people that bail out because of that, the more chance there is that DP and the TBL project will fail. People who pre-ordered did so because they don´t want TBL to fail, they want TBL to play! Trying to persuade people to get out/stay out will only increase the chance of failure... The people who showed their support to DP by pre-ordering should, I suggest, continue that support, they need it more than ever now!! I´m not staying in so I can hold my head high and say I didn´t fail them in their hour of need, I´m staying in bacause I want this game... getting out if you want the game will reduce the chance of getting the game... People who really want it should stick together in their support, and we will all see this game in our gamesrooms.

I´m glad DP at least did something to reward those that stay in/get back in... there is an increased risk now, and with any risk, there should be a reward... sure, the plaque isn´t a massive reward, but it´s something... I hope it encourages some people to get back on board! DP really need to issue a deadline for doing so, or refunded people will understandably sit tight... I know I´l be proud to have that plaque on my game, it will remind me of how I stayed on board through these troubled waters and will give me the feeling that I was part of the reason the game got made at all

That plaque sure will have a story behind it!

#2499 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

The PRIMARY thing making DP seem like an unstable and risky company is the lack of liquidity implied by requested deposits not being refunded.

Not sure if you read previous parts of this thread, but apparently there was this guy in the US (Phil) who kind of messed things up a bit, and as a result the US account has suffered some problems. DP have another guy on board who´s apparently going to sort it out...

By the way, the reason those people were requesting refunds in the first place was a result of the panic Phil had created, which brings the catalyst of the ´problems with DP´ back to the panic caused by Phil...

#2507 4 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

Not true, the reason Phil did that, from what I gather from the evidence in this thread, was to publically distance himself from DP after so much non communication and non action regarding what appears to be several important issues. That leads me to believe that DP wasn't messed up because of what Phil did, rather that it just came to light because of it.

I´m sure that´s what Phil wants you and everyone else to believe... My take on it is that Phil made some screw up that was going to cause problems to him (and possibly his family) and he wanted out... DP didn´t let him out because they wanted him to sort out the mess, so he created this mess in the hope that DP would finally let him go because they could see he was damaging business... One of Phil´s stated reasons for wanting out was the licencing issues, but we have since found out that there are no real issues here... One post here even said Phil should get credit for making the licencing go as smoothly as Roger said it was!! So his stated reasons for wanting out are evaporating... One of the panics he created was that TBL was screwed from the licence side, we now see it isn´t and wasn´t... What else will we find out isn´t and wasn´t as Phil said...

Anyway, whatever the reasons for Phil doing what he did, we are where we are... I wish Phil the best of luck in fighting his illness, and I wish DP luck in sorting the mess out and restoring people´s confidence in them!

Quoted from Aurich:

I honestly think it's time to stop talking about Phil.

I agree, and I wouldn´t keep bringing him up, but since this entire thread and situation is a direct result of his actions, it´s hard for his name not to keep cropping up... My main reason for posting here is to support DP and their efforts to make TBL... why, because I don´t want my money back, I want a game to play.

#2509 4 years ago
Quoted from Draegermeister:

I really like the new "Achiever Edition" that the people who stay in will get. When this all blows over, those machines will serve to mark a place in history, where Pinball can enjoy another golden age. This golden age will be marked by some new vendors, a lot of new technology, and a ton of fun. In 20 years (as I look at my GNR machine) the Achiever Edition will start conversations about this moment in the history of the machines we love.

I hope I´m still around in 20 years to be part of those converstations!

#2513 4 years ago
Quoted from soren:

I do not believe that licensing problems was the reason for him wanting out.

Quoted from soren:

Now going public and initiating refonds was a consequence of DP not respecting his wish to get out.

I also believe that licencing wasn´t the reason... so what was the reason for him wanting out so bad do you think? and why didn´t DP want to let him go?

One answer is that DP were bad and Phil was scared of that badness (doesn´t explain why DP didn´t let him go though), the other is that Phil did something wrong and DP wanted him to sort it out instead of run away... If Phil was the only one talking, which story would you hear?

Quoted from sammiesguys:

So your take is essentially "I'm going to completely make shit up"?

Only stuff that´s a viable way of understanding this mess... If I just wanted out of a company, and I hadn´t made a mess of something, why would my employer not just let me go? And if it was all very innocent and I wasn´t worrying about some deep shit I was rasponsible for, I can´t imagine I´d be inclined to cause a massive panic that would harm the company as a way to try and force them to cut me free... it just doesn´t make a lot of sense to me unless there´s an explanation that we haven´t heard...

#2516 4 years ago
Quoted from ozno:

Some new shit has come to light. I've decided that fuck it dude. I'm in. Just made next payment.

Well done dude!! Welcome to the achievers club!! Good to have you on board!

What new shit has come to light by the way? (or were you just grabbing a Dude line?).

#2532 4 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

I forgot about that one! I would have become berserk had they done that to me.

Not only did you forget about it, I think you also forgot in what order these events unfolded... My recollection is that they did that AFTER he had already gone berserk... let´s stick to the chronology of events if we´re going to start using them to point the finger

Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

Oh, I'm sure they told you exactly what you wanted to hear, why wouldn't they, it wouldn't make sense to do otherwise when your going to submit another payment based upon the conversation.

Let me guess... DP do something right and you see it as them trying to fool us... they do something wrong and... they did something wrong... In your eyes DP simply can´t do anything right, wouldn´t you say?

#2565 4 years ago
Quoted from Sjsilver:

The difference between the previous paragraph and most of the bullshit you spew in your crusade to convince everyone that Phil is evil is that the above is based on factual evidence that exists in the verifiable public record, and has nothing to do with wild speculation. Your theories about Phil's true motives are irrelevant and quite frankly as bad as the worst speculation about the state of the license (much of which misread what Phil actually said). In your attempt to stick up for your friends, you are making up shit about a guy who is battling stage 4 cancer with NOTHING to back it up.

I´m truly sorry for Phil´s state of health of course, I know how cancer is a life wrecker, my own mother died of it when I was 16 (she was 38), and my dads next wife also was a victim of it... not sure how bringing that up adds any value apart from to try and make me look insensitive and maybe shame me... OK, if that´s your angle, fair enough... The main point of my posting what I am is not to say that Phil is evil, but to try at least to get some sort of ballance on what seems like a lot of negativity towrards DP which may not all be justified... Yes, what I´m proposing is speculation, but then so is not considering an ulterior motive from Phil´s side... the overriding un-answered question which supports the possibility that there is something we´re not seeing is: Why would DP refuse to let him go? I´ve read through Phil´s posts again, and there is a HELL of a lot in there about licencing, which we now know was not an issue... is this not a fact?

Anyway, personally I´m not too bothered who was responsible for this situation, all I´m bothered about is that TBL gets made... and un-defended allogations that DP are all bad is not helping that goal...

#2570 4 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

- I am a TBL fan

- I was on the original "virtual TBL" wish list.

- I did not join the pre-order list as
i) I was - still is - overcommitted elsewhere
ii) I was not so convinced by the information given by DP. If you remember the initial website, the only clear information provided at that time was the prepayment plan...
iii) I am unconvincing about the lower PF lastability.

- I almost jumped in after the PAPA video. Yeah, it was that good... (so good I would argue that this video looks like a "commercial" - not built like other PAPA video I saw)

- I chickened out after the Refund / Phil / DP-US affair. Rather fortunate for my bank account as I would not have been capable of raising enough money in time.

- I might buy the game at a later stage. Probably not NIB.

So... Am I legit?

Oh, go on then... I´ll let you speak, but only because it´s you

#2572 4 years ago
Quoted from Sjsilver:

Well then address those specific negative comments towards DP. Defend them against what is actually being said. Made up motives doesn't "Balance" things, it just comes across as juvenile.

I have been addressing specific negative comments throughout a lot of these 52 pages... a lot of which were juvenile... an opposing juvenile speculation is a fair balance I believe...

Quoted from Sjsilver:

What do motivations have to do with anything?

This entire thread is a result of whatever motivatioins motivated Phil to do what he did, so I´d say motivations are quite relevant here...

Quoted from Sjsilver:

but I can think of no reason why that would justify leaving the funds in Phil's control and suggesting he keep it in his control a month after he publicly quit.

One possibility is that DP wanted him to put something right that they knew he was the best person for to do it... With insight, it´s definitely debatable if this was the right move of course.

Quoted from Sjsilver:

It doesn't mean that he was lying, it most likely means that it was a difference of professional opinion. But fine, go with your theory that he was just out to sabatoge them.

I´m not sure I said he was lying, merely possibly using it as an excuse to want out... And I don´t think he was out to sabatage them at all, just as a way to push them harder to cut him loose. He has clearly achieved this.

Quoted from Sjsilver:

The problem is you aren't addressing any of the problems people actually have with DP.

The point is that I don´t want anyone to have problems with DP, I want things to go smoothly (believe it or not). I want to alleviate problems... I might not be going about it the right way though, I don´t know... All I know is that people got in because they want the game, and I´m on this boat... and I´m staying on it... I´m not a businessman, I´m a pinball fan... Maybe youŕe right and I should STFU...

#2576 4 years ago
Quoted from Wamprat:

I want them to do it off their own bat and quit asking hobbyists and collectors for start up funds/ pre orders etc to get companies or projects up and running.

Sometimes it´s the only way to do it... getting loans and other funding might not cut it to go into production, especially if expensive licencing needs are part of the deal... DP did at least get to the prototype stage off their own bat from what I understand...

Quoted from Sjsilver:

I agree that there has been a lot of juvenile stuff on these forums like any other, but I disagree that the correct response is more of the same.

Sometimes you have to balance like with like you know...

#2606 4 years ago
Quoted from Wamprat:

I could be wrong but I don't know of any other business that does this start up/ pre order thing before actually opening it's doors with product on the shelves/ showroom floor.
Regardless, I hope TBL gets made, released and is a killer game.

Well, pinball IS special

Quoted from badbilly27:

Do you pre-order owners really care that much about a rug, chrome and plaque? I almost feel like these pinball companies are treating collectors like little kids.

All pinball owners are big versions of little kids, surely you knew that...

So, if you buy a TAF gold, you don´t worry about whether it has the plaque or not I take it... providing it´s got the gold trim, plastics and ROM... Like it or not, agree with it or not, but plaques with certificates of authenticity do mean something in this hobby... Look at all the Stern LEs...

By the way, even before this Achiever´s plaque thing came along, wasn´t it the case that the games for VIPs would have some sort of plaque with a serial number anyway... making that the only thing to distinguish between a pre-ordered game and one bought afterwards with the extras?

Speaking as a pre-order person myself, it was certainly a tough decision... but in the end I decided to do it based on the rug... I didn´t know about the chrome trim... I actually thought the rug was exclusive to VIPs, but that proved to be a misunderstanding on my part... The other reason for getting in was that I had a feeling that getting it will help the project move along.

#2607 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Buy hey if ga,es are late come fall I promise to be twice the dick I ever was about woz dates. And that's hard to do but I am one of the only folks capable of being that dickish.

Personally I wouldn´t kick up a fuss if the game is late at all... deadlines are missed all the time... the last thing I want is a half baked game just so it meets the deadline... and if people are working under stress due to hassle from customers demanding the game on time, that´s gonna make it that much harder to focus on getting the game polished! Thake your time DP, don´t rush my game... I´m personally happy to go to the back of the line and wait for bugs to be address before my game gets made!!

Also, don´t forget that these guys have had their hands full of other issues to deal with in the last month, so they deserve some slack on deadlines I think!

#2612 4 years ago
Quoted from Biv:

And the fact that without any preorders, this machine would most likely never ever get built at all, so even the potential buyers of a finshed product would never get any TBL for their money.

Nail, you have just been hit on the head!

#2615 4 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Not sure how anyone not working on the code could asses the depth of code at this state in development (did Barry tell some they were aiming for "shallow code"? - seems unlikely). But sounds like you should just wait to play it before deciding.

DP were inviting people to send suggestions of what they´d like to see in the game in the hope of getting lot´s of creative suggestions... I sent some ideas myself... To me, this can only go towards an expectation that the code will be good... they are wanting to listen to potential buyers (unless it was a marketing trick of course). My gut feel is that they will spend the time to make the code good... these guys are players too, and this being their first machine, they´re going to want to impress the community I´d suggest... Of course, this is not fact, so I apologise to Sjsilver and others only wanting to hear facts

#2619 4 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

I said it wouldn't be super deep.

I actually hope this ends up being the case... I´m not a fan of overly deep games, they end up being more of a chore to figure out/complete... Medium-deep would be good for me...

Personally speaking a game that´s about as hard to complete as Roadshow but with a bit more going on than start mode, do mode (if you want) start next mode, repeat to end of game, would suit me fine...

What´s happened to all the arguing, speculation and negativity in this thread... it´s kind of boring without it

#2622 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

You realize you are a huge incredible hypocrite right? Do you want a gross long list of examples of you doing exactly this ^^^^^. Someone already (correctly) called you out for doing it and you backtracked.

That´s more like it

#2632 4 years ago
Quoted from LITZ:

It has some stiff comp next to Xmen at over 9250 posts and 186 glorious pages of reading X-citement!

Holy shit, that even beats what I thought was the longest thread ever:


#2644 4 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

I see your point on overly deep games. But one thing about super deep (or deeper) games is the value you get and the track record of those games that stay in a collection. ie:LOTR, Spider-Man, AC/DC, TSPP, WOZ and others that some would argue AFM, MB, and MM. They all share a common denominator Keith and Lyman. These 2 guys are the best at what they do. They have the ability to grasp the casual player with easy to learn basics of rules to "have fun" and want to play more and get more into the game as well as a progressive depth to the rule set that much more seasoned skilled players want and those of us that buy the games want in a home purchase.

DP is well on the way to create the same thing, but it's not proven yet. Once done then we can judge. Fair enough. But yes, medium-deep might be a better way to put it I'm not hating, just waiting.

I'm with you on the excellent ability of Keith and Lyman to satisfy all skill levels and pull people into the game, that's for sure... they are the masters! I'm probably an impatient player and want to know the full depth of the game in a relatively short space of time (1 to 3 months)... if I'm still lost after this I tend to get a bit frustrated I guess... and if I find I have to think too hard to keep track of where I am and what's best to do next, it hurts my head too much... I prefer backgammon to chess for example

#2653 4 years ago

Apparently this game is planned to have 101 lit inserts!! Does anyone know if this means 101 separately controlled feature inserts?? If so, that's a lot!! and implies a pretty involved rule set...

Quoted from mnpinball:

DP is well on the way to create the same thing, but it's not proven yet. Once done then we can judge. Fair enough. But yes, medium-deep might be a better way to put it I'm not hating, just waiting.

By the way, on the flyer it specifically says "Deep rule sheet". Obviously it doesn't prove anything, but at least it makes their intention clear...

#2708 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballkim:

Hopefully this will all be water under the fridge soon enough.

A new paragraph has started!

#2714 4 years ago
Quoted from alveolus:

Perhaps we will get an idea of how much they are likely to come through with the ruleset on the basis of what happens with the BOP 2.0 software.

The snag is that the BOP 2.0 software is limited to the BOP playfield... sure, it could be used as a guide to their capabilities, but from a depth point of view, TBL will have much more potential because the game is designed to run on P-ROC I believe... 101 individually controlled lit feature inserts

#2767 4 years ago
Quoted from highdef:

I was going to make payment deposit #3 last week, but it's requiring me to also pay for deposit #4 (which technically isn't due until April). While I appreciate DP's recent efforts, I'm still not completely comfortable with dropping the full "load" for this machine. I'll let them remind me to pay it.

Sounds like a bug somewhere... I'd mail Barry and explain the problem...

#2802 4 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

Just like Curtis_playfield giving my statement a thumbs down. I don't get that, what I said is very honest and not bashing DP, just stating facts and yet he will thumbs down it because those facts are not pro DP.

Another possibility is that he wanted to give you a thumbs up, but was using a iPhone and missed the spot by a couple of pixels... it's not an un-common thing...

I would also like to hear some kind of public statement from DP about all this, it's about time we got some facts laid on the table!!

#2821 4 years ago
Quoted from Rensh:

Kahlua is blackened to, no surprise there either.

Bloody morons... sorry, but if Brunswick see the potential for free advertising by not requesting money for the approval to use their logo, why can't Kahlua? I can see an after market decal being made

#2825 4 years ago
Quoted from burningman:

First mod on my game....an "Under Licensee Approve" sticker

Shouldn't it read 'under licensee approval'?

#2869 4 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

They need money to do that, so they can either fix the problem with thier customers and send refunds

That's like saying 'I need a roof over my head, so I'm going to fix it by knocking the walls of my house down'...

#2870 4 years ago
Quoted from pindan3:

In short, is this game going be made and sold in the USA???

I think the answer is 'yes', unless they issue all the refunds that are being requested, in which case they'll probably go bankrupt, and then the answer is more likely 'no'. I'm personally hoping they decide to make the game... That is, afterall, why I gave them a lot of money

#2876 4 years ago

My wife's theory on all this is that DP are actually a faction of the Islamic State and are using money from pre-orders to fund terrorist attacks... I told her that I didn't think that was the case, but I'd put it out on Pinside anyway

#2880 4 years ago
Quoted from zucot:

Do yourself a favor and stop posting stupid shit.

Do I detect a sense of humor failure? Besides, what I said is fact, one of the few facts actually stated on this thread... she really did say that!

#2881 4 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

Please explain your statement. You can't simply quote part of what I said and put a sarcastic analogy like its a counter argument and expect people to understand.

As I see it, if they process refunds they will achieve more for this project than anything else they can do at this point.

I also believe that by issuing refunds they could turn this around and regain confidence... sorry, my response was a bit flippant... I must admit I reacted to what I thought was a funny contradiction... they need money, so give it back... I do get the idea, and have actually suggested exactly what you said directly to Barry about two weeks ago believe it or not.

#2885 4 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

This is true, but if they push this all off until the games are made, those people that wanted those refunds would rather have the game I am sure.

My thoughts exactly! I have a feeling this is the way DP are planning to play it, right or wrong...

#2888 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I'm bowing out of this thread and will be read only.

You can break your own promise you know... Come on, let it all out!! You'll feel better!!

#2889 4 years ago

Mixed 15mins ago and consumed 5mins ago! It's interesting that the glass used in the game looks identical to my own choice of receptacle for the same beverage! It is my most modestly priced receptacle! Cheers everyone!


#2891 4 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

You need a piece of electrical tape over kaluha

I thought of doing that, but the rebel inside me decided to f#*k it

#2908 4 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

I'll be a consumer once I recieve something.

Unless you receive a refund...

Quoted from inhomearcades:

Gotta replace that cream with Irish cream. The only way I take my Caucasian is vodka, kaluah and baileys.

I like it that way too... I normally throw some milk in too when I use Baileys... What I've started doing recently is throwing a shot of Cointreau in there... try it!

#2912 4 years ago
Quoted from robfg67:

before the company receives bankruptcy protection.

Yeah, we don't want them to protect themselves against bankruptcy, or they might end up making the game!

#2923 4 years ago

here's a question to all you knowledgeable folk out there: Does anyone know what the legal rights are of people sending pre-order money to DP and the legal resposibilities of DP? Did these people (myself included) agree to some sort of terms and conditions when we paid the cash?

I understand, for example, that DP promised to give refunds if the refund request was made before they go into full production, but I don't believe that it was stated anywhere when that refund would be granted (maybe I'm wrong). If it's the case that DP have a legal obligation to issue refunds, but not a legal obligation to do so at a specific time, then maybe their legal requirement is to issue refunds 'at their convenience'. If this is the case, then I can imagine that the plan could be to record the refund requests, so that they know which people they need to refund, then hold back on giving those refunds until that person's game is made... they could then ask that person if they still want the refund, or if they want the game instead... if the person stays with their request for a refund, then they'd offer that game to the next in line with the same option. Clearly some people would still want the game, so they continue like this 'till they have enough cash to issue refunds to those that have refused the game...

My question is: Is it in their legal right to proceed like this if they did not state WHEN the requested refund would be made?

Clearly there are a lot of people posting here that know a lot more about this side of things than a nail bender like me... so I'd really appreciate those that know the answer to my question to share their knowledge... The question again is: Is it within DPs legal right to proceed as I described?

#2930 4 years ago
Quoted from robfg67:

In my opinion, all customers who gave a deposit must do whatever they can to get as much of that money back ASAP. Forget about holding out hope that you will ever get the machine...that is called blind faith and there is enough smoke here to warrant action.

You've been a member of Pinside for 2 weeks, made 7 posts and are making statements that are trying to evoke more panic in people who are already spooked by what's happening at DP... For what do we owe the pleasure of your input?

#2934 4 years ago
Quoted from Curtis_Playfield:

This thread is a result of a derailing of the company though, isn't it?

Or is the derailing of a company a result of this thread...

Or, another speculation is that no company has actually been derailed, and this thread is just creating an illusion to that effect...

I guess he was referring to robfg67 as the troll though... his posts do seem like the most troll-like around here... maybe that profile was made to try and help promote the derailing illusion... maybe even by a competitor??

#2942 4 years ago
Quoted from JDee:

How's the situation with the people who asked for a refund? Still nothing?

I think if anyone on here got a refund there would be a flurry of information... so all I can advise is that no news means no refunds.

#2950 4 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

So you're stiffing peoples opinions based upon duration of membership?

No, I'm saying it looks like the account was made up to stir trouble.

#2954 4 years ago
Quoted from Jakenjoi:

Seriously, is it possible they're not responding because they're trying to sprint to the finish line and get some games moving? Once they sell some actual tangible machines then can say, "Alright, who wants a refund now?" (Because they will have generated some revenue from the sales by then).

I'm not sure they'll generate revenue by making the games and giving them to people who have already paid, but it sure will make people wonder if they really want a refund once they hear of people in line actually getting what they put the pre-order money up for... I don't know about other people who pre-ordered, but personally I did it to get the pinball, not to get my money back...

#2956 4 years ago
Quoted from Dr_Spaceman:

these words also came directly from DP: "All deposits are fully refundable until your machine goes into production". Until that gets sorted out they are liars and their word cannot be trusted. Sorry if that sounds blunt, but I can't see any other way to look at it.

The fact is that that statement didn't specify WHEN the deposit would be refunded... as I asked earlier, but no-one answered, since they didn't specify when the refund would be made, do they have a legal obligation to give the refund in a certain time-frame, or can they wait 'till a game has been produced and then offer it to the guy who asked for the refund, if he says 'no thanks, I want my money back' they move to the next in line. I find it hard to imagine anyone would say no to the game if they did that, because that person would risk losing everything... better to have the game than risk that, and seeing as people got in FOR the game, it's a fairly safe bet...

My question, again, is: Is it within DPs legal rights to proceed like this since there was no timeframe specified regarding WHEN the requested refund would be made?

I have no idea myself, which is why I'm throwing the question out there...

#2957 4 years ago
Quoted from Sjsilver:

but I am fairly sure it's safe to say that holding half paid customers' money hostage is a terrible strategy for getting them to pay the full amount later.

Your reply to my post came as I was asking the question again

I wouldn't expect them to hold the deposit hostage for getting them to pay the full amount later, just maybe to delay paying the refund 'till the game is actually made, and then offering them the game OR the refund... the person would still be given what they were promised if they still want it (the refund)... and since no time was specified, they won't be breaking their promise...

I can understand that proceeding this way could rub some people up because they want what they were promised 'NOW', but personally I wouldn't mind if this was the way they were planning to go... It might help them survive, and therefore we'd all get what we want in the end (refund OR game)...

You have to admit, these guys have been through some drastic times and had to make some drastic changes, so maybe this drastic approach is the only way to sail through this mess...?

I'm not a businessman and am in no way saying this is a good way to do business, I'm also not saying that this is how I believe DP will proceed, I'm just wondering if it's a legal possibility...

#2980 4 years ago
Quoted from robfg67:

Hey pinballslave, not sure why you feel the need to question my motives. My opinion is as valid as yours.

I would be very worried by the recent behavior by DP if I had thousands invested…worried enough to want to get my money out ASAP.

You keep asking/forecasting about DP’s next move and customer’s rights, so you must be worried too. It is a waste of energy to try to predict their next move and the only move you have to protect your investment is by taking preemptive legal action (demand letter from a lawyer).

I feel the need to question your motives because a) I don't know what they are, and b) the only effect of what you are writing is to evoke panic in people who are already spooked by what's happening at DP, and that's not good for me or anyone who is still either 'in' or waiting for a refund... which leaves no-one at all... Advising people to start taking legal action I can't see is helping anyone... It will just cause more harm to what we (the people who have money invested in this company) want to succeed... Yes, I'm worried, but I don't see a solution to that worry to make things worse for DP.

I have 1000s invested and am worried enough to want things to go smoothly so I get something for it... so do you have anything invested to give you any actual concern for how smoothly things go at DP so you get something for that money? Is that your motive? If not, for what do we owe the pleasure of your input?

#2985 4 years ago
Quoted from Curtis_Playfield:

I was pissed, don't really give a hoot anymore. "I'm calmer than you are" one might say

I'd also be calmer than Hwawonyu if I didn't have money tied up in this.

Quoted from aeonblack:

Personally, I don't care if DP ever says another word, all I care about is getting my refund. Sure, I want to see this game made,

Just one question: If DP makes the game and says to you, your game is made and ready to ship (with the trimmings you got as a VIP) OR you can have the refund you asked for, which would you take?

#2988 4 years ago
Quoted from Curtis_Playfield:

Pinball "slave"...are you suggesting that I don't have money tied up? Ugh you people!

Sorry overweight stoned looking meth addict woman it was clearly a bad assumption on my side... So we're pulling from the same end of the rope then

OK, how's this for an analogy: We were promised a cruise to an exotic island, where they serve exquisite White Russian and have an excellent bowling alley... Some people decided to go for it and got on the ship. Half way across the ocean there was an unexpected evacuation of random passengers by helicopter airlift, people were confused... then the organiser of this airlift informs everyone that he believes there's a storm coming, so he decided to try and save people...

Lots of people are still on that ship, and are now understandably worried, because the storm is here!! Many want to get off, but the captian is determined to make it through the storm and get to that island... Onlookers are screaming to the people 'get off, get off... abandon ship!!!' But the people on-board can't see an easy way off... what should they do? Start screaming at the captian so he's distracted from what he's doing, or try and keep him calm to help the whole shipload of people make it through the storm and reach that island, and, of course, have a shitload of White Russian to get over the shock?

Post edited by pinballslave: Corrected descriptor of adresee at adresee's advice

#2996 4 years ago
Quoted from BoozeMarlin:

What's the latest response from DP? Have they made an official statement in the last 4 weeks??

Dude, you played that record just 20hrs ago... don't you have another one?

Quoted from Oldgoat:

There is one critical piece of info missing in that choice. If DP says, 'We have resolved all issues, contracted manufacturing and, therefore, you can have your money back or we can ship the game to you in 6 weeks', I imagine nearly 100% will take the game. If they say 'We have lots of issues we have to deal with from legal to financial to manufacturing but now have a solid plan in place; however, we now project games won't be shipped until 2020, so we can offer you a full refund', I imagine nearly 100% would take the refund. Of course, the answer falls between those two extremes. And, I am confident everyone has a different point at which they stay or bail. The absence of information simply confirms that there are issues and suggests that the timeline for resolving those issues is unknown.

Don't give him clues... let him answer himself

#3006 4 years ago
Quoted from BoozeMarlin:

Nah, think I'll just keep playing this one until DP issues a response. Speaking of which, has anyone heard anything back from DP in regards to refund requests, etc?

OK. By the way, has anyone heard anything back from DP regarding refunds requests? Anyone got a refund yet?

We need JDee here to say it again I feel

#3032 4 years ago
Quoted from Nilroc:

It's true go to 27:52

Full steam ahead! Looking forward to playing this one!

1 week later
#3128 4 years ago
Quoted from HENSBROOKER:

That means production should start within 2 months

I think they'll be a bit late, they're having some internal issues at the moment that have slowed them down a bit... You never know though I suppose, but I would be VERY surprised if they manage to make the first production game in time! My guess is that the first production game will get made in around July... 2015 (I might add!).

Quoted from ozno:

It's February..............

True... very true!

#3145 4 years ago
Quoted from highdef:

Soooo....what mods are you going to do to your TBL when it arrives?
<just killing time between now and the next scandal/update/year>

One idea is to change the White Russian glass out and put a receptacle with a white Russian coloured fluid in there and have a sensor on the side of the glass to sense when the drink rides up the glass due to shaking the game and use that as the tilt mech. Clearly the 'glass' would need a clear cover on it to keep the fluid inside, and could have a piece of clear plastic floating in there as ice... The height of the fluid would set the tilt sensitivity... Warning clip: 'Careful man, there's a beverage here!'

Post edited by pinballslave: Refined so it's actually doable.

#3148 4 years ago
Quoted from ozno:

Maybe she can at least get some more info.

More info will be coming this Friday, I'm sure... I know it's not easy at these times of total uncertainty and silence, but try and stay calm... I also know my input is typically not well received on these pages, probably because I'm not complaining about not getting a timely refund (having not asked for one, it's clearly hard for me personally to complain on this matter), but I have a strong feeling everything will be fine, refunds will be issued where requested and the ship will get righted in good time...

#3153 4 years ago
Quoted from meSz:

That lid better be good as you know you will forget about the mod, lift the playfield and have drink all over the game!!!

The idea is that the 'lid' is not removable, it's part of the glass... it's basically a sealed container... it's probably not a viable/practical design, more of an impractical idea... Still, would be cool though...

#3157 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

I found a guy on eBay selling Folgers cans and found the right one for $12, $8 shipping..

eBay here I come!! So why did you buy this if you weren't planning to use it as a topper for this game?

Quoted from Erik:

If you could somehow rig up the internals from a Whirlwind topper to it you'd really be on to something

You mean you get to the wizard mode, the fan turns on, and you blow a load of ash all over the room... cool!!

#3163 4 years ago
Quoted from Manhattan:

Super cool idea about liquid in the glass but I think it could be simplified. Keep the tilt where it belongs and make one of these...

This had crossed my mind too... but finding one with the right glass shape and liquid colour would be a bit of a nightmare... still, would be an easy mod if you could find it

#3174 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Sleep tight everyone hopefully some New shit will come to light tomorrow

Is it me, or did Jimmy Kimmel come across as a condescending ass-hole to anyone else...?

#3175 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Good catch! Yeah I can't find any stars lit up stuff.. Just the building lights.

By the way, that building on the upper playfield looks like it's incredibly well done... have they put in stain marks on the walls under the stars to simulate the look of rain staining the brickwork as it drips off them??? If so, that's what I call attention to detail!!

#3180 4 years ago
Quoted from burningman:

logjammin 2.JPG 33 KB

Isn't that shot of Peter Stormare from Fargo?

#3194 4 years ago
Quoted from Nilroc:

I guess Pinballslave was fed some misinformation.

Well, I wasn't told for sure that it would be today that we would get a NSN, but I did have the distinct feeling it would be... I was sure it would be, but now I'm getting less sure

Still, the day is not over... but I have to say that I would have expected to see something by now if it WAS going to come today...

#3195 4 years ago

And here it is:

We can look back on a period of achievement, on challenges met, competitors bested, obstacles overcome. It sure wasn’t easy all the time but we will come out stronger.

That’s what makes us men.
That and a pair of testicles.

We are pleased to present to you a new NSN with some good news!

Playfield approved!

We are very happy to announce that, with the tremendous help of Roger Sharpe, we now have the approvals for all of the artwork. We are very proud to present to you the final playfield of The Big Lebowski™ Pinball!

If it wasn’t for this damn brand of coffee liqueur we would have had all licenses for the artwork

New Dutch Pinball team members

Jeff and Don joined the team of Dutch Pinball USA, Inc. to help us in the transition of the company. All official paperwork has been submitted to the IRS and our Paypal partners and we expect to hear from them again any day now. As soon as we have authorization we will be sending out more information regarding the refund process. We take this very seriously and looking forward to resolving the last couple of issues that are outstanding.

Jeff is a CPA and CGMA, with 27 years of accounting and business advisory services, supporting operations through cash flow management, business growth planning, sales forecasting and expectation review. Jeff’s decision to join Dutch Pinball was an easy one - it’s a whole new game!

Don brings 25 years of experience in risk management and policy holder retention. In the service industry, customer service is the trade. Don has a no-nonsense approach to customer service and operations. Being a Pinhead since the age of 14, he is excited to join the Dutch Pinball team.

"Ya see? Nothing is f*cked up here Dude. Nothing is f*cked."

Production updates

We have not been sitting on our hands and have been testing the rugtoy and the bowlingalley. The results are good! We also sent out all Bride of Pinbot 2.0 kits and got real nice feedback. Thank you so much for that.

We now are busy preparing the production process and we are still on track to start delivering the first TBL’s in Q2 2015.

We will keep you posted!

Team Dutch Pinball


#3213 4 years ago

Spot the difference anyone:

Pre approved playfield.jpg 3e428cc9-1a38-488f-a8fc-910cc8830366.jpg
#3220 4 years ago

You did good dude!

The pot leaf is replaced by the Dude's cell-phone... which personally I think is more appropriate since I don't remember seeing a pot leaf in the film at all... but I do remember seeing the Dude's cell-phone quite a lot... so I think this ties it to the film better...

Swapping the gun for the briefcase is no great loss from my viewpoint... Both play memorable roles in the film... Ah, just realised the briefcase was in the original design... Looks like the gun is replaced by Walter's sun glasses and the 'kids homework'...

It's nice to see that the 'coffee liqueur' bottle is the spitting image of a Kahlua bottle... they seem to have gotten it as close as they can get away with on that one

#3224 4 years ago

Wonder why the dog-tag is bigger on the right drain... I guess they added the design teams names in it so it had to be a bit bigger so you could actually read it...

#3242 4 years ago
Quoted from ozno:

The refunds are never coming. They don't have the money. Jjst as I predicted, they are going to drag this out.

Want to bet?

#3257 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

There absolutely needs to be a mode that reveals the jackie treehorn doodle as you progress or something.

This could be integrated into the match feature...

#3303 4 years ago
Quoted from aeonblack:

But, quite frankly, more promises (as opposed to more action) from DP, whether official or not, does nothing for me.

I think they're promising because at the moment they can't act, because, from what I can gather, the funds are locked in the account... when they can act they will be acting as opposed to promising. I understand you want them to suck dicks to get your money, and it's a fair request, but I just don't think they're going to go down that road... I'm sure everything will be fine and you WILL get your refund... it just won't be from the dick sucking route, that's all...

#3330 4 years ago
Quoted from solarvalue:

they didn't communicate via Pinside. I received the occasional PM but they never posted to the forum itself. I'm not saying that it is right or wrong, only that their level of communication has been consistent throughout.

I'm pretty sure the reason they don't communicate via pinside is that they made a promise to update VIPs before anyone else, or something like that... So, to keep that promise they are obliged to only provide updates through the NSN to those VIPs...

Quoted from aeonblack:

Hahah, thanks for the first laugh I've had since entering this thread this afternoon. We may disagree on 90% of things happening in this thread, but at least we can agree that that was funny.

Glad I could give you a laugh!! I really do believe all will be good... My crystal ball is telling me that you will get your refund within a week!!

Quoted from ozno:

Never a statement from DP like "there are enough funds in the PayPal account to take care of all refunds" their refusal to give facts and real promises speaks volumes
PS I'll stay in if they disclose some details of their operation.

I feel your frustration, and I'm convinced that the reason they don't make this statement is NOT because the funds are drained, I think it's because the mere notion that funds in the DPUSA account could possibly be depleted is not a notion they want to distribute to the VIPs through the NSN, and that's the only way they are committed to communicate... As RTR mentioned, a lot of their customers don't even visit Pinside, so are not even party to this thread and all the chaos in it. They ARE allowed, within their own committment, to communicate with people on a personal level, which is why PMs are normally answered... Now Don is on the ship, I feel communication will be better... But I wouldn't be surprised if he too has to keep quiet on Pinside now he's a member of DP simply to honor DPs statement that they will communicate with VIPs first...

#3337 4 years ago
Quoted from anubis2night:

Is there any other hot spots for pinball activity in other countries?

There's quite a community of pinheads in Spain with lots of shows cropping up around the place... The French also have their fair share of pin-heads... for some reason the French seem to gravitate towards Gottliebs... Unfortunately there aren't so many pin-heads in Czech where I live... it's mainly just me!

#3373 4 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

Excellent joke! Er... no.
Or this is an alternative France. Stargate is considered a good game in France, but the other GTB...
(well, Gottlieb made great EMs).

As in any other country, you have the WMS/Bally fans vs recent Sterns fans.

I was going by the collectors I know in France, there's a clear leaning towards Gottliebs, especially system 80/80A and system 1... one of the biggest Gottlieb system 80/80A/1 collectors in the world is French (JR Carr), he has every single game except Knock Out (which I think there was just one made). Also you have Pascal Janin who's the world leader in replacement System1 and system 80/80A CPUs... and he's French... so I wasn't joking Yes, there are clearly also a lot of fans of other games too, but generally there's a leaning towards Gottliebs compared to other European countries from my experience...

1 week later
#3491 4 years ago
Quoted from bemmett:

I am a day one/hour one order so I am not saying this to move up in line either.

Doesn't sound like there's much of a line to move up from where you're standing

I'm very relieved to find that the DPUSA Paypal account has clearly been un-locked!

Regarding the 'who should be let back in' debate, my own personal thinking on the whole conundrum of wanting a refund was that if I could get one, it would mean all is OK, so I wouldn't want one... and if I couldn't get one, it would mean all was f*cked, in which case I'd want one... but of course this latter scenario would render it impossible to actually get one... so with both scenarios, asking for one would be pointless... that was my main reasoning for not asking...
I can understand people panicking and wanting a refund (and asking for one), I can also understand those people wanting back in when they get a refund (my own thinking, but I just went to the next logical step and didn't ask)... What I think DP should have done to help the 'I only want out if I don't need to be out' people (like me, but a 'non-refund requesting' version) is say to people who requested a refund: We are about to process your requested refund after resolving the issues we unfortunately had with the DP USA account. Once your refund is processed you will not be allowed back in line. If you still want your refund, please confirm by reply and it will be processed. We apologise for putting you through this stressful time, and hope you decide to stay with us, but if you do decide to leave, your full refund will be processed immediately upon confirmation that this is what you really want...

I guess they didn't do that, so now we understandably have people wanting back in now the feeling of everything being screwed has gone...

#3493 4 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

I was forced into keeping my money into the company until they wanted to do something about a refund, where exactly did I do anything wrong?

I would say that 'able' is a much more appropriate word than 'wanted' here... I'm sure they wanted to honor refunds as soon as they were requested...

#3498 4 years ago
Quoted from Curtis_Playfield:

I got an email from Barry saying he was prepared to refund me but he wanted my bank account and routing info to process the reimbursement lol....ummmm no. Maybe things work a little differently there, but yeah...no.

So I said "hey I'd rather give you $4k than the entire contents of my bank account"

Is it really possible for someone to empty your bank account with these details?? I'd suggest going to a different bank if that's the case!!

Quoted from Curtis_Playfield:

Why don't you guys send me all your banking info then?

Quoted from ccotenj:

please feel free to forward me your banking information at any time...

My bank account number is CZ4055000000005845404001
Bank name: Raiffeisenbank a.s.
Address: Budovatelů 1996, 434 01 Most, Czech Republic.
Account holder name: Lee Buck.

Feel free to take all you want

#3502 4 years ago
Quoted from Curtis_Playfield:

LOL I just caught the Lee Buck part....haaaaahaha. Good stuff.

I'm probably missing something here... that is my actual name... hence my hi-score initials... What am I missing here??

#3504 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Now THAT'S funny!!

Now I'm starting to get paranoid about my name...

#3561 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Dear Lee Buck,
Sir, I write you with the utmost urgency to inform you of a most wonderful opportunity. Your great uncle Buck has sadly passed away, and left the sum total of his vast fortune to the first Buck to claim it.
Unfortunately his money is all tied up in Nigerian Twinkies futures, and so to free the sum of 6 million dollars we will need a paltry amount of money to liquidate, surely no more than $20,000.
Please to be replying to this email with your bank account number, SWIFT code, bank name, and address so we can bring you this blessed money.
Your friend always,
Mr. Goldfinger

That sounds like an amazing deal, yeah, I did loose touch with my uncle, sounds like he did good... Let me know where to send the money and we can take this further... Thanks for finding the time to track me down!

#3584 4 years ago

My take on DP forcing refunds on people who requested them is a bit of an echo of comments already made: maybe there were specific people who were not particularly pleasant to DP when asking for the refund.... Clearly DP wanted to give these people a refund, since they are now demonstrating this by adamantly doing so... so the allegations that DP were 'refusing' to issue refunds and basically behaving like ass-holes was, I imagine, pissing DP off (it would certainly piss me off if I was being attacked for not issuing refunds if my hands were tied at that moment). We now know that it was not a 'refusal' to give refunds, but an inability! I imagine that these 'aggravating' people, who were also probably fueling the fire of fear on Pinside, are simply no longer welcome as customers of DP... I can understand their ethical take on the situation... I mean, imagine this... you have something to sell... a potential buyer tells you you're an ass-hole for several weeks on a public forum, and then at the end says: OK, can I buy what you're selling? My reaction would be to give them the middle finger... I would feel like I'm selling out to my personal integrity if I continued to deal with them to be honest...

I can imagine that other people who were more understanding and sympathetic and merely requesting a refund out of fear (the victims of the fueled fire if you like) would be more welcome as customers... Has anyone here NOT made threatening requests for a refund (but a request non-the-less) and been offered the place in line?

Just my 2 cents-worth...

#3590 4 years ago
Quoted from kidchrisso:

you got rid of the pot leaf and pistol.... I'm out. Not going to pay for a mod to put it in after dropping 85hundo, parts of the movie I enjoyed.

I've seen TBL about 5 times and don't remember seeing a pot leaf in it... I'll pay more attention next time!

#3593 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

There is none of that evil devil weed in this fine movie sir!

There's also the scene where he's in bed with Maude

Joints, yes... pot leaves, I don't think so... I'm probably being a bit pedantic, but if they wanted to represent marijuana in the artwork, a joint would have been a better choice to link it to the film...

#3600 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Consider a smoldering doobie mod for TBL taken care of, Scott and I are already plotting.

The pop caps from a game I have (IO Moon) have a nice 'doobie' tip glow to them, although that would be one FAT f*ing doobie!... an incandescent bulb would be most appropriate I'd suggest... here's the IO Moon pop cap:

Glowing rock pop.jpg
#3613 4 years ago
Quoted from whitey:

Bottom Line ? Are they going to build this game ?

Now that's it clear that all the fuss and fear created in this thread is unfounded (i.e. they are not in financial ruin, as some prophesized) then why would there be any reason to doubt that the game will get built? I predict another NSN with updates of progress in the next few days...

#3629 4 years ago
Quoted from BoozeMarlin:

But the funny Hitler videos are still ok right???

You can't seriously compare 'funny Hitler videos', to making some sort of connotation that a living person, who is by all accounts a very reasonable guy, is in some way connected to the Nazi ethic??? Surely you can see how these two things are at the opposite end of the spectrum! One takes the piss out of the biggest murdering tyrant the planet has ever known, and the other suggests that someone alive is connected to the principles of the dictatorship he created... so yes, the funny Hitler videos are still OK

#3680 4 years ago

Thought I'd past the NSN here for the non-VIPs to see what's going on, athough I agree this thread is probably not the place...

Welcome to another New Shit Newsletter™, where new shit is coming to light on an ever increasing regularity!

In this newsletter we’re pleased to report that in parallel with preparing for the production of The Big Lebowski™ Pinball we are also testing the toys' durability... We want to make sure that the "Rug" will tie the game together for a long time, not just to keep you achievers happy, but to keep the achievements of your loins happy as future generations of achievers want to achieve (high scores).. It's very important, therefore, that the moving/rolling Rug Toy can take some peeing, er... pounding.

Here's a short movie of our setup to test the Rug Toy. The contraption shoots a pinball at the Rug with varying strengths, if a hit is too weak it does not register a hit, (which is exactly what it is desired to do in the game). They got us working in shifts on this!

One of the things we've concluded so far is that the rug needs to be a bit heavier for a better 'Newton effect' and to have better friction with the playfield so it rolls smoother.

It all started with a rug…

We’ve also been searching high and low for a supplier that offers the best quality for the Rug and we think we’ve found him! This is far from the most modestly priced rug available!

On the right in the photos above you see the rugs that we have used until today for shows. On the left you see the rug that you will receive. Needless to say: It will really tie the room together!!

Well sir, it's this rug I have...

The early VIPs orders (before October 20, 2014) include a free rug and a chrome upgrade.

We have received many requests for rugs and chrome and we want to give all pre-order VIP's the opportunity to upgrade with these add-ons. The way to do this is easy: go to your personal page and just check the tick box when you make your next payment (or just this one). The price of the rug and chrome upgrade is $500.

(if you have more than one order, please locate the links in the order conformation emails, or contact us, so we can send you the links)

Catch up with your payments.

You are one of our VIP's. One of a group that stayed with us, also during some difficult weeks, and we want to thank you very much for your support! As you know from a previous newsletter, we will be rewarding you with a numbered ‘little achiever’ plaque.

We understand that some of you waited with submitting the last payment because of the commotion. Now that we've straightened everything out, there’s no reason to stay behind anymore. We will give you some time for this, so if you want to stay in line, please make sure your payments are up to schedule before March 1, 2015. We hope this gives you time enough to secure your spot in line.

We look forward to continuing to improve the game and to keeping you updated on the progress as we make it! We are dedicated to delivering to you a game that you will get the maximum amount of enjoyment from for the maximum amount of time!

Team Dutch Pinball


#3682 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

You may want to remove the link to your personal game pre ordee account , unless you're trying to get someone to pay your last payment for you

Well spotted, didn't notice that was in there... thanks for the heads up! Mind you, I guess the worst that can happen is that someone pays my final payment for me, as you rightly pointed out!

#3685 4 years ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

dim the intensity down a bit, add some more ash, a little more body to the joint, and route the wire through the bottom so that it can be concealed through a drilled hole in the White Russian "table top" - and there you go.

Body seems to be OK to me, the Dude didn't seem to like fat joints... maybe a roach in the end...

#3690 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

n the meantime here's a quick photo of what it looks like off, you can't see the LED at all. Paint job was just a quickie too, the brown isn't quite right, I just used some leather dye I had handy from my Metallica hammers.

The brown looks pretty good to me... maybe would be improved if there were also some brown streaks further away from the tip along the body...? The ash effect is freakin perfect!

I'm sure a cut-off toe (with green varnish of course) would also fit nicely somewhere in the game... you could sell them as a twin pack mod

There's so much material to work from for this game...

Maude flying across the playfield on a zip-wire with her arms falpping around would also be cool, but obviously in the realms of fantasy...

#3692 4 years ago

Exhibit A:

#3697 4 years ago

I know the roots of this thread are a kind of sore point in recent history of this game, but this thread does seem to have become the go-to place for most things TBL... so maybe the op could simply edit the title to 'The TBL thread'

#3719 4 years ago

Aren't boobs also legal in some parts of the States?

I've gone off the severed toe idea myself after seeing the other thread with the mod there... but the Treehorn doodle spinner is excellent... assuming they're not going to put the Time magazine there...

#3721 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

So I think it's passed the test.

I think that's what's call an acid test, which it clearly passed! You can put me down for one!

TILTed post. Sign in to be able to view TILTed posts.
#3742 4 years ago
Quoted from HENSBROOKER:

Isn't tiltwarn PinballSlave a little bit hypocritical and childish?

Talking of tiltwarn... has something screwy happened to my PC, or has the tilt system been abolished?? I can't see tilts on any post, or the ability to tilt...

Quoted from Concretehardt:

Gunna have to pass on the boner mod... I don't like junk on my spinners!

I only noticed that it 'spinning' made it look like the doodle was getting a boner after I posted it... I wanted it to spin faster, but the GIF generator I hit on wouldn't make the result spin at a different speed, despite having a speed adjustment!

#3748 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

It's the little (!) in the lower right of images.

Ah yes, I see it now. Thanks for the mini tutorial

#3786 4 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

I doubt the game is gonna happen, sad to say that, but it appears it's hard to make a pinball when it involves a license.

Didn't you know the license issues (if ever there were any) have been sorted out and the playfield approved? Must be pretty lonely on this thread being a basher now the refunds have been made and the licence approved... can't you think of anything solid to bash them with? Oops, musn't feed the troll

#3803 4 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

Get over it, people have different opinions, it's a forum. Don't like what I say, block me, actually, I'd be happy if you did, wouldn't ruin your day anymore.

Why would I want to block you, you're amusing. So where does your opinion that the license will cause problems with this game actually come from bearing in mind licensing has been confirmed to be all sorted out? Maybe your opinion is that DP and Roger Sharpe, one of the most respected saviors of pinball who was the key player in legalising pinball, are... lying?

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