No refunds requested or recieved here
This topic is closed.
Quoted from foxtj24:
Is it a bad sign that I heard from one of the reporters at the event that the DP guys were staying in the back room most of the night. I think Scott was on the floor, Damn I wish I could have been there. I know 2 people there, one says all is well, the other says run away, take the refund and go. I am still in, but really need to hear from the DP guys.
That's nonsense Barry was on the floor playing games, chatting with folks, or drinking next door.
Dudes kind of hard to miss being 7 feet tall.
I think the difficult hurdle is not with Lebowski Universal but rather removing Phil from DP.
Pretty sure he waited till Barry was out of country to launch his refund/attack and as an owner of 1/3 DP USA.
Quoted from Hwawonyu:
Umm, No dude. Not having this resolved until now is the issue. They had 2.5 months. That tells me a lot about how things are done. Now you say give them time.
Indicators with Tshirt delays BP2 and now this are what we call road markers and they tell a pretty good story.
For me there was one more odd thing that has left me uneasy. After I paid at the show and the charge went through I heard nothing and then a month later Barry answered an email I had. But he had to get my cards ending numbers. Email and address info again. It all worked out but the fact that it was all lost just left me uneasy.
One thing OK. But when its one after another and another...
If we look at bop 2.0 it is late but it's has full endorsement and licensing rather than a rogue skill release. Seems like they're crossing T and dotting the i's
Quoted from PinballHelp:
So, these guys built a commercial pinball machine based on a theme they didn't have permission to use? And NOW they're trying to get permission? And multiple times their company has imploded. And people still want to pre-order the games? Seems legit.
Anyone want to guess whether or not Gary Stern is on the phone with Universal right now about doing a BL game for Stern? He seems to be a wizard at letting other people do tons of legwork to increase his market and then beating everybody else to the punch.
Dude you new here?
License was granted nine months ago
Approval is what they haven't finalized
Quoted from Fishbeadtwo:
After reading this whole thread(and having bleeding eyeballs) I have decided to weigh in on this. The Seattle Pinball Museum is fully supportive of Dutch Pinball, The Big Lebowski pinball game and would like to here and now invite everyone to come play the game of the decade @ the Seattle Pinball Museum in 2015. We have full confidence the current issues will be overcome and the game will be produced. The SPM also wishes the best to Phil in his battle with the big C and prays for a full and complete recovery. That being said, fuck it, let go bowling.
I'll be there to help you unbox that bad boy!
Big props to Nate and Roger for the podcasts!
Thank you for your time and passion to pinball gentlemen
Quoted from badbilly27:
My Xmas wish is that all these boutiques cut a deal with Stern. Let Stern keep the manufacturing plant fully staffed and charge all these boutiques to manufacture games for them. Let Gary be in the manufacturing business and designers be in the designing business.
Sorry Billy but that would be awful imo
Stern's assembly line has terrible QC besides we will get to see what Europe can produce. Mirco is doing the pf's and I'm very excited as his work is usually nice.
Outside of pinball the Dutch have an excellent reputation in manufacturing, agriculture, and shipping.
Personal I'm really excited to see what they can do.
According to Roger Sharpe the liceanse will be approved (perhaps minus a few images) and will be granted. So the issue that we have currently is money and Phil. Sadly we are in a wait and see what happens phase.
Rest assured I was in Chicago last week and saw the all U.S. kits there.
The hard drives needed to be flashed and the artwork attached to the speaker panels.
I would guess these will ship early January
Quoted from ozno:
TBL a will never see the light of day if the USA customers get screwed out of their money. It's in EVERYONE's best interest to make sure it all gets sorted. DP is responsible for that money, not Phil. The machine will not be produced if the finances aren't fixed because Universal has zero interest in defaming its intellectual property for a few pennies. That's why Barry knows he only has a few days to fix this.
Do you alway automatically jump to the worst possible situation?
You've explained the absolute worst case scenario...
May I present a few other alternative since you or I don't have access to DP books.
A) your right and we're fucked, no one gets a game US, Europe, worldwide zero games made.
I see this as highly unlikely. They have European sales and besides they produced the prototypes with their own money. They also had the license secured prior to taking any deposits. This is the doom and gloom worst case imo.
B) Phil is bought out or removed and the gears keep rolling. This situation would be the most ideal imo. Besides if Phil takes the money from the account he's facing serious federal charges. Even if he pays himself back for money he has put in he's still operating against federal law. His reputation and family will not be well off.
C) perhaps Phil keeps a lock on the money for as long as possible and DP is forced to find outside investors to cover about $500,000 to get the games made and developed. Shitty situation but in the end everyone gets the game who paid into it. Dutch pinball starts with a major debt to pay off.
Since he only had access to DP USA PayPal he doesn't have all the money. The square money and European sales are safe regardless of the what Phil does. Also they have some cash sales too.
I can say this confidently DP is trying to become a major pinball manufacturer.
Hopefully they can overcome this problem professionally and easily.
It's been 9 day since the very public mishap, I hope they have a resolution and are able to offer refunds to any customer who wants out (as clearly stated on their website) before the months end.
Certainly before they expect people to make the next payment.
Ultimately if it takes 1 month from Phils meltdown to issue a refund that's not bad at all.
I resent my refunded payment to them in hopes that they do succeed.
Quoted from QuickSilverShelb:
Bullshit!!! Why don't these guys go out an mortgage their homes, cash in all their savings, get personal loans, get business loans, do what most people do who are passionate and want to start up a business.
They choose this route because it is an easy road to go. Announce a machine with nothing more than an idea and maybe a few sketches and ask for money. Easy as pie, there's no bankers to deal with, no quarterly or annual statement to provide to anyone and they don't need to risk their homes or savings. It's a sweet, sweet deal for a start up a company with this model.
I don't care if it costs millions to start a pinball company. This form of financing places the majority of risk on the backs of the pre-buyers and very little risk on the builders. Of the current manufacturers, only Spooky and Stern have a model I respect.
You realize spooky is half now half upon delivery right?
And even Charlie said the company wouldn't have been able to exist without that half deposits on games not yet built.
Quoted from twominds:
If you are still paying, you are not wise. I requested a refund 2 weeks ago and have not received it. Look, I am a pin collector and I own 2 businesses. I love pins as much if not more than any of you. I have $35K worth of pins. But when things in business start to go awry, that means trouble. Now I am currently out $6K and have had only a single email from Barry who says "they are trying to figure it out." I am not trying to tell you what to do, but I will tell you that business takes VERY LITTLE to fail and drama is drama. I will be more than willing to wait in line and pay for my TBL pin after it gets made. But as of now $6K in a no interest account with drama and no official launch date means trouble. Put up all the money you want...and I am going to admit that the promo machine was great. But be smart. There is a problem when money does not flow properly in a business and partners are jumping ship.
Trust me people, drama is worse than admitted failure in a business.
All that being said. If it gets made, I will lay down the 9K and pay for it. It is a great looking machine.
Oh and lastly...after 2 weeks of no refund Paypal has been notified as well as US Bank and Bank of America. I am not Fucking around. It says refunds are no questions...why am I still high and dry? Hate to be that guy...but I would caution you...
Bro there is no way your four pins are worth over 5k....just saying
I hope you get your refund soon.
I'm concerned about Phil as well...not so much the DP team
Just Phil I wonder what his motivates are?
He says the lisceanse is fucked...then we learn not really. cabinet and translite have been approved by Universal. PF we might lose the gun and pot leaf, sucks but not a deal breaker imo.
Then he says online he just wants out doesn't care about future profits or his past expenses...ok that shouldn't be too hard. Week of paperwork tops if both parties can work together.
So where's his motive to refund folks and trash DP reputation?
I mean none of his 'evidence' proves anything scandalous.
If anything they prove slander and loss of profits against him not DP.
So I ask again what's his motive?
Me, I just want a kickass pin and a rug to tie the room together.
No worries bro, it's alittle stressful I agree.
I along with some friends have resubmitted payments and I have a strong inclining to believe your refund will be processed asap.
Glad to hear you have a killer collection which means you're probably not hurting for money.
Rich or poor no one likes loosing money but I think you will get your refund just not as timely as you wish is all.
Quoted from DnDPins:
Just because a prototype looks great and there is demand for the game, does not mean that it is a viable business venture. There are minimum expenses which need to get paid and require a certain number of games to be sold (preorders or not) for the business to stay afloat. Good intentions and best wishes are not going to get games produced. They need capital, either from preorders or investment. The sad truth is that if enough people get refunds and they cant fund this company (and have the orders to make it viable) it's over.
I missed the part where only pre orders got pins...oh right that wasn't never said.
It's fine to wait till it's made to be ordered...you're only out a rug, trim, and might cost a little more is all. I would find it really hard to believe they lost even 1/3 of all orders. From the people I've talk to who were in originally most are us are still in.
Quoted from Robotoes:
What's really a shame is to try and make people feel guilty about wanting their money, as if they are somehow abandoning the hobby / not supporting pinball. They are a company offering a product, and there are customers. Emotion does not need to factor into it.
What the response if the refunds are honored in two weeks?
Making it a 30 day refund.
Not really I think its delayed production
Which is probably his plan…if he's the sole controller of the paypal account why does he not refund everyone's money so we can buy back in if we wish and he can dissolve DP USA?
I think he enjoys having this amount of power, he's certainly not behaving like a dude who just wants out, despite saying so in a public forum.
Quoted from Razorbak86:
Dude, Phil is battling stage 4 cancer. This is not a power trip for him. He wants OUT!
There are several possible reasons that he's not refunding the money (e.g., the account may already be depleted, he may not know who the remaining funds belong to because he doesn't have the customer records, he may be under a temporary restraining order preventing him from taking further actions). No one knows right now except the current partners, but the DP management team can clear a lot of these issues up by communicating with their stakeholders. Hopefully that will occur sooner rather than later.
I really hope his health improves, truly. But that's no excuse for what he is doing.
Until something new surfaces, I suggest we stop feeding the angry spectators.
Their boredom and down right unpleasantness they're projecting on the thread is not good for anyone no matter what the outcome and really they do not have any inside knowledge so what's the point?
Just to see themselves type? Time will tell and either they are right or wrong, but my money's on them being wrong.
@Curtis - your concern is very valid, I hope you update as that develops.
I'm glad they got Jeff Marchetti on board, from what I hear of the man he's overqualified for the position. If anything is a miss in the books, by fault of DP or Phil he will find it.
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:
Do I lose my place in line?
If I decide to stay in do I now have to pay 9k instead of 8500 and also lose out on the preorder bonuses?
Maybe this is a blessing and I should stay out?
Why can't DP come to pinside and have a Q and A with it's customers and figure out a new preorder model and answer the concerns of the people that are investing in them?
They said they'd honor the 8500 + bonus.
That's a question only you can answer.
My guess is that they would love to but until they can get the Phil thing figured out and guarantee every thing 100% they have to tread carefully. The emails they sent and from talking with them I'm sure they are trying very hard to get it figured out.
Didn't they send emails 12/15 and 12/31?
Saying exactly that they are working on it?
Quoted from robfg67:
In my opinion, all customers who gave a deposit must do whatever they can to get as much of that money back ASAP. Forget about holding out hope that you will ever get the machine...that is called blind faith and there is enough smoke here to warrant action.
Just like JJP, I think the customers that really want the game need patience. Shit they're not even late on production.
I'm not bailing because of Phil.
Quoted from inhomearcades:
Actually I misspoke. I just read through all the emails. I requested the refund and before I did so I asked what the process is for getting back in. Barry said he would get back to me with the info, he never did. So, that being said, I doubt the requested ones will get back in line. My bad, my memory sucks.
Thanks for clarifying I was just curious.
For the record I hope DP gives you a window to hop back in.
Should be a good next newsletter!
I heard a few customer that are in your same boat and were told you can keep your order.
Quoted from Curtis_Playfield:
Just clarifying, I did NOT get my refund back. I got an email from Barry saying he was prepared to refund me but he wanted my bank account and routing info to process the reimbursement lol....ummmm no. Maybe things work a little differently there, but yeah...no.
So I said "hey I'd rather give you $4k than the entire contents of my bank account". His response was "nope, your order is completely removed from our system now as all other refund requests, you can't buy a game", which I thought was an interesting move. I don't give a hoot about the $10 rug but I'm not sure what DP gets from barring my purchase altogether? Glad to be out of it even though I'm mega bummed on the next Stern title too. Hmm. What to do.
You know all that info is on a check?
Like you paid with...
If your paid with PayPal the funds would be back in...just saying
This topic is closed.
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