(Topic ID: 112377)

DP USA Refund - Still Want the Game


5 years ago

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  • 422 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Xerico
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#2600 5 years ago


Post edited by Mr68: Posting during Happy Hour

#2641 5 years ago

So while all of this Pinside drama, speculation, personal attacks and panic has been going on, I've been quietly dealing directly with Barry and Dutch Pinball to obtain my answers.

We all have choices to make and I choose to leave my money with Dutch Pinball. My reasons are my own but I'm satisfied.

Best wishes with whatever you decide.

#2671 5 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

especially given that Barry just puts it all on Phil.

Perhaps its deserved.

#2678 5 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

obviously your not a business owner. You don't let your customers suffer at the hands of the people you decided to start a business with. You take care of your customers and get your shit together behind the scenes on your time and dime.

Obviously you're not a business owner. I've been an entrepreneur the majority of my life and very well know the slings and arrows. Shit happens in EVERY business does it not? You do your best to minimize the impact on your customers and make it up to them when things are resolved. And that's what I see Dutch Pinball doing.

I've never had a partner in any of my business's so I can only imagine the destruction a trusted associate could do as an intentional saboteur. Especially the guy controlling the money. (this is speculation)

I believe Dutch Pinball "is" taking care of their customers and working behind the scenes as best they can given this situation. And they are doing it on their time and dime but given the pre-paid business model the money part is kinda muddled.

You've implied you're a business owner. Kinda surprised you wouldn't know that.

#2679 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

...or perhaps it's not.

I agree Rob. That's why I said perhaps.

#2681 5 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

I currently run 3 businesses, belong to 2 LLP, and reside on 3 boards. I know how to run small to medium sized businesses, most larger than DP. I would never let my company operate the way they do, maybe that is why all of my ventures have been successful.

Good for you.

#2709 5 years ago
Quoted from pinballkim:

Hopefully this will all be water under the fridge soon enough.

That's a leaky water line to your ice maker.

#2725 5 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

I agree. This is now most likely a liquidity issue.

Is that why they brought Roger Sharpe in? To supervise a liquidation?

#2728 5 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

I personally am not saying the sky is falling. I think this company has promise and a good shot to make one of the best pins. All I am saying is that it should not be the customers who suffer from their mismanagement. I do not see how anyone, including barry himself can say otherwise. Take funds, even if it is personal funds, and process these refunds. Its no ones fault but their own that this has been the debacle it has been. All of these would be cool and chill if in fact they could process refunds. I could care less about all the other bs of how the company is doing, who owns it, where the licensing is, etc. I was in for that from day one, I knew there would be bumps in the road, delays, changes etc, but what I did not sign up for is for them to royally mess up and put my money into a state that it could not be refunded as promised. Bottom line, DP is to blame, as stated before, when we made our payments we made them to DP per the website. DP, Barry, whoever it takes process our refunds and most of us will still be on board to support you. There is literally not one reason this can not be done other than they do not have the financial backing to process the refunds, its plain and simple folks.

I believe Dutch Pinball is temporally paralyzed by opposing lawyers.

Phil's recent silence here leads me to believe that he lawyer-ed up and was told to shut-up. Legal advice he should have sought prior to igniting this public bonfire.

So both sides in my opinion are following legal advice that goes beyond the PayPal issue. Phil's exit from the company and his cooperation is a part of the complications here. And there maybe issues were not aware of. All of this causes delays and they need additional time.

Total speculation on my part. I could very well be wrong but I'm hoping for a good out come.

#2738 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

It rhymes with Harry from Pinball Strife.


#2751 5 years ago

Regrettable and unnecessary comment deleted.

#2756 5 years ago
Quoted from Nilroc:

Phil is not with DP.

Its my understanding that Phil remains a partner with DP although he is removed from any duties in its operation.

As I stated prior in this thread, I believe a part of the delay is Phil being a loose cannon and his attorneys are negotiating his exit. Not an easy task given the sabotage he initiated.

#2761 5 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

just a shame to see the business ran so poorly. It's unacceptable.

We get it as you've flogged this dead horse deader. I can summarize all of your multiple comments here in 5 words. "The customer is always right". A quote that dates back to early 20th century and taught in our high schools.

Additional inference that you would do it better is self-aggrandizing and trite. Your simplistic view is based on incomplete evidence of whats happening behind the scenes.

I don't have a crystal ball but my prediction is you will be refunded your money in due time. My further prediction is you will continue to complain after receiving your money.

By the way, I deleted and replaced my smart-ass comment to you on the previous page. It was unnecessary and I apologize.

#2765 5 years ago
Quoted from anubis2night:

A lot of words to call the guys comments wrong.

I also could be wrong here. Time will tell.

Quoted from anubis2night:

Then agin DP has always said you can get a full refund, it swould make sense that people who want that to be honored and are not hearing anything back but crickets will be vocal.

Redundant. I referrer you to the past 55 pages of this thread where that very comment has been repeated.

Quoted from anubis2night:

For the amount they have a lot invested right now without an answer, I'd say let me vent.

Vent away. I have money I may lose here myself. But how about some fresh evidence to get all lathered up over rather than a rehash.

Quoted from anubis2night:

The game looks like it will get made, and if their being vocal keeps the pressure on the folks at DP to work quickly to a solution then it works out for everyone.

I've been in some difficult situations over the years and its during those tough times that I am at my very best. Problem solving is my forte and I excel with my back against the wall. That's the situation I see DP in, backs against the wall and perhaps that's why I sympathize with them.

If I were Dutch Pinball I would be doing many things but the one thing I would not be doing is reading Pinside.

#2770 5 years ago

For whatever its worth I'm bowing out of this thread and will be read only. Feel free to call me on my bullshit if I slip and post during a mental lapse. (Possible Happy Hour)

I stand by my opinion on this situation but I'm a bit embarrassed by my snarky attitude and flashes of ego.

I sent Inhomearcades a private message concerning our banter. Very nice exchange and I think I've acquired a new friend.

#2883 5 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I'm bowing out of this thread and will be read only.


1 week later
#3106 4 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

It's a shame that simple communication would elevate the majority of the problems in this case.

Quoted from sd_tom:

In contrast go look at MMR threads where Rick tries to stay engaged but is torn apart on every word.

Quoted from sd_tom:

DP plays by the "No news until Good news" playbook for better or worse

Quoted from sd_tom:

Just different strategies...

1 week later
#3198 4 years ago

#3221 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

It's nice to see that the 'coffee liqueur' bottle is the spitting image of a Kahlua bottle... they seem to have gotten it as close as they can get away with on that one

Shhhhhhh. Don't tell Phil.

#3225 4 years ago
Quoted from aeonblack:

I've filed paypal claims, done extensive back and forth on disputes and things. Two weeks tops to deal with paypal (even taking into account Phil's health and his inability to get right back to them). I can see a month, maybe, but even that's a stretch.

Dude, from the bottom of my heart, I hope you get your refund first. I really do.

#3285 4 years ago
Quoted from aeonblack:

But, regardless of that, what machine # you have shouldn't determine when or if you can get a refund if you request one.

I believe his comment was made hoping your's and Ozno's number was before his and his machine number would move up when you two moved out.

Quoted from aeonblack:

It's also nice to see all the downvote brigade of DP apologists are still out in full force.

Yep. Exactly as the Fanboy Phil Club has done.

Quoted from aeonblack:

I want my money out because I no longer want to support a company like DP.

Completely understandable and I'm certain you're not alone. I agree DP hurt themselves in may different ways. We'll see what the future holds.

#3295 4 years ago
Quoted from sammiesguys:

In the past week, you are the only person in this thread who has been mentioning Phil. Most of us have moved on from that discussion, and it looks like DP is attempting to as well. Please let it go.

Two comments? Really?

#3301 4 years ago
Quoted from sammiesguys:

And referring to people as the "Fanboy Phil Club" is just another way to get people rehashing an old argument.

Quoted from aeonblack:

brigade of DP apologists

This was the comment I was responding to. And it has been throw around a lot here on Pinside. More than twice.

#3336 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

But I wouldn't be surprised if he too has to keep quiet on Pinside now he's a member of DP simply to honor DPs statement that they will communicate with VIPs first...


If you want a contrasting style of going toe to toe with Pinside, read the MMR thread. Rick from Planetary will answers a concern and it only creates more questions and criticism no matter what he says. Much of it from non owners involving themselves just like in this thread.

I wanted to hear more from DP also during this process and agree damage was done. But I also felt and still feel that actions speak louder than words and I was willing to give them more time.

Look at the anger still being displayed here after a very positive news release. Fact is, DP was damned if they do and damned if the don't.

My apologies to all for the recent rabble rousing I've posted.

#3340 4 years ago
Quoted from anubis2night:

And therein lies the trouble at times with posting updates. But one thing I do like is that Rick continues to post. if I were a manufacturer and posting here I would politely say something like
"we would like to use this forum to keep our customers informed and keep a personal line of communication with the community. However, this is the Internet and often a message can be lost in the conversation, so, while we welcome input through the process, if we folks are a disruption in the process we will ignore their posts and continue with the conversation and updates. If you feel we are ignoring your posts and that you have real concerns as a customer, please email or call us directly and as always we will be happy to help you. In this way we can keep the various conversations as close to on topic as we can without getting into the personal conflicts that are so common with public forums. We thank you for your patience and understanding with our methods."
make that your first post for any thread on a particular topic and then simply remind people of that when you get the typical troll like comments.

I couldn't help but smile at our two posts being parallel to one another (regarding Rick) but with a completely different take away.

#3355 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

Pinball is definitely undergoing a renaissance in Japan.

That could possibly mean a future manufacturer coming out Asia somewhere. Interesting.

1 week later
#3522 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

That's ridiculous. Utterly stupid. I can't comprehend it. Fine, give a special plaque to your die hards, who cares. But to tell someone who pre-ordered your game, and was promised a no questions and no problems refund, that they're no longer welcome as a customer after taking them up on that offer?
Insane. Petty. Vindictive. And the opposite of any company I would ever want to support. Glad they don't have my money.
Edit: To be clear I'd be fine with those people being bumped to the back of the line. Or denied the rug, whatever. Who cares. But to say "we don't want your money, go f- off"? Not very dude like.

I'd want better confirmation than two disgruntled Pinsiders with an ax to grind.

EDIT: And I would hope its not true.

#3562 4 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

The only excuse for DP would be if you add insulting comments when asking for a refund.

Exactly and DP is well within their rights to refuse to deal with anyone that's been abusive.

No shirt, no shoes, no service.

#3566 4 years ago
Quoted from anubis2night:

What is interesting is that everyone that defends DP justifies their decision to tell customers to take a hike by saying "well you did post some comments on pinside" wtf?

I don't see it that way at all. In my view its a select few that were most probably abusive in private emails and phone calls. You try to reason with every customer but there are some that can never be satisfied no matter how hard you bend.

#3615 4 years ago

I hope I'm wrong but I'm expecting a manufacturing delay. They spent nearly two months on damage control from Philgate. I'm certain they multitask-ed during this time but that's a lot of energy that could have been redirected elsewhere.

Any reasonable delay is understandable and I'll roll with it. The bad news is, it will be happy days again for those seeking DP's failure.

#3637 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

I certainly dont but would be happy being surprised. based on others success so far fall would be nice.

I keep thinking back to the mysterious announcement in Chicago 2013, followed a year later by three playable machines at the same show. They obviously had a butt load of work already accomplished before announcing. These guys know how to prepare. We'll see.

#3640 4 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

Shocking coming from someone in Colorado.

Whats the problem? Is Colorado hurting Florida's drug smuggling operations?

#3738 4 years ago

Mr. Treehorn treats spinners like women, man.

#3773 4 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

but when they raise the price another 1500 bucks it's not a good sign.

First I've heard of that. Explanation please.

#3776 4 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

I doubt the game is gonna happen, sad to say that, but it appears it's hard to make a pinball when it involves a license.

Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

I laugh when people post that stupid quote from the movie, of course it's my opinion, it's a forum topic. It's also your opinion that the machine is awesome and will ship just fine.
I hope it all works out, but when they raise the price another 1500 bucks it's not a good sign. But, hopefully my opinion is incorrect and you all get shipped a lovely machine that you enjoy.

Very un-dude or anti-duder'ish if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

#3789 4 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

Get over it, people have different opinions, it's a forum. Don't like what I say, block me, actually, I'd be happy if you did, wouldn't ruin your day anymore.

Dude, its winter in Minnesota... Take some vitamin D or hit a tanning bed.


#3792 4 years ago

Check out who the single person is giving him thumbs up on all of his trolling.

#3794 4 years ago

FYI: I'm flying into Chicago tomorrow. Dutch Pinball heard about my trip and has kindly invited me to visit them while I'm there.

Doesn't sound like a company with anything to hide does it.

#3813 4 years ago
Quoted from RTR:

It's not a big deal, turns out it's an accuracy test. Just have to be able to hit a rug.

Oh my gawd. You just made me wet my own rug.

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