(Topic ID: 112377)

DP USA Refund - Still Want the Game


By JDinNOVA

4 years ago



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#422 4 years ago
Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

I asked them to please take over, you'll have full access to paypal, customer lists, and I'll keep my mouth shut.
I won't even tell Gary or Jack my idea of using a machine as a jukebox. Plugging in a USB with music, and using the flippers to forward and reverse, having the machine light up to the beat.

We already have this wireless juke box mod for any CPU based pinball machine Pinnovators Pin Tooth mod

Lol
Lorenzo
Pinnovators.com

-2
#423 4 years ago
Quoted from kapper:

DP VIP Email
Dear VIPs,
Although we would rather be focussing fully on our extremely fun VIP party in NYC - we want to take a moment and address some of the confusion that may have been caused by the refunds on some of your orders.
Although Phil announced to leave the company, he officially still is one of the three share holders of Dutch Pinball USA Inc. and in charge of the Dutch Pinball USA Inc. PayPal and bank account. The company building the game is Dutch Pinball BV and owned by Jaap and Barry.
We did everything in our power to settle issues in a normal way with Phil, but unfortunately he decided to take matters in his own hands and is doing whatever he's doing for reasons we don't know. We really regret your involvement in this situation and we hope we can settle this as soon as possible so we can focus on fun things again.
Our goal is to make awesome games. This will not be changed or damaged by an individual who just wants to discredit our success and/or our project(s).
Phil started some PayPal USA Inc. refunds without us knowing. Please don't worry, your order is still there and you will not lose your place in line.
As soon as your money is refunded, please go to your status page and 'retry' the payment(s). If you pay again like this, the payments will be processed to a new PayPal account and you're all done and your order is secured. If for some reason you can't retry, or if it doesn't work, please let us know. We might need a couple of days to fix this since it's weekend and some of us are in New York.
If your money is not (yet) refunded, you can always dispute this on your PayPal account to force a refund
Nothing else will change and all terms and conditions will remain the same for delivering your game and future games.
We are Dutch Pinball and are still on track to create this and many more awesome games!
Thanks for being a VIP and we hope to meet you again soon.
If you have any further questions, or concerns, please contact us at sales@dutchpinball.com. It might take some time to process all emails.
Team Dutch Pinball
Barry
Freek
Guus
Jaap
Jean-paul
Jules
Koen
Roel
Scott

If u get a refund .... Run!!!!!

#428 4 years ago

Someone explain after reading these pages why bother preordering. The games not limited. If u got a refund hold it back when a game ships pay for it. Why risk it?

#441 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Really? Does it do the sound activated lights? Sounds cool.

Plugs in bypasses the audio from the pc. Bluetooth connection plays music from ur phone or iPod through the game... We sold a couple dozen and stopped making them for a while.. Will get back to them later this spring.

#452 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Sounds cool, what price and would it work on acdc?

Not currently.. We designed it for jjp games or pic based... Doesn't mean we can't do stern. Just not ready too

#456 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Well if I stay in on the hobbit I may be interested in one.

How many people skipped out on hobbit at expo before the changes and went to tbl... Nowhere many will go back because of the changes and this dibocal. Few months for hobbit cause of changes... And two weeks left to order smaug...

#457 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Well if I stay in on the hobbit I may be interested in one.

Ya there's a video of me using the pin tooth on my Facebook pages
Pinnovators on Facebook. If u want to see it work.
Thanks,
Lorenzo

-2
#464 4 years ago

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#525 4 years ago
Quoted from Cenobyte:

So you have experience building pin balls? In that case, I rest my case. In any other case, let me explain what I mean...
"Taking care of legal stuff" has a very wide perspective here. As I stated already: there isn't a single machine produced at this moment, so considering that, there IS NO LEGAL ISSUE YET. When you start making money using someone else's face, music or brand name, you're in trouble. These guys have most of the legal issues taken care of and are still sorting out other legal stuff, considering if it's ($$) worth while putting it in the definitive product. These licensing things kind of run parallel to developing the machine itself. While doing all that, they still want/need to show off a prototype and yes, that prototype will have stuff in it that has not been taken care of legally. Is that a problem? Probably, but is it a BIG problem? I'm not sure. What I do know is that Phil took the last 24 hours to TURN it into this big problem, making people doubt everything that has been done here. Phil could have walked a different path, called a lawyer or something that could pull his ass out of this company, but he chose to dump all his pain here, where it hurts DP the most. He chose to throw shit at his "friends". Typical. Have all Phil's claims been verified? Nope, just a pile of (doctored??) screen prints.
We can all have an opinion here, that's why it is a forum, but all we have here are Phil's rants and many people are already looking for their life vests. I think that's called "overreacting".
Let's give DP a chance to make an official statement and also consider the fact that one of their members first has a chance to take care of his personal family grief. As I said before: this is a small, dedicated group of people, not a large company with 10 people in the marketing department.

I love how your telling people what to do with their hard earned money. Cause that's what your saying. Don't bail out,,, they can't build a game with out us... Assume the risk... Ha

#559 4 years ago
Quoted from vex:

this situation is a real mess. i will not toss my money back in on this pre order drama.
i will ONLY be a future customer for tbl if i am offered the same deal that i was offered at expo with the rug and the chrome package and not paying the price increase.
i have the money set aside for this, otherwise there are many, many other options. i hope you guys take heed and don't fuck yourselves, you need us a hell of a lot more then we need you.

There's always a few people left on board of a train wreck. Someone will get stuck holding the bag...

#623 4 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

I believe Barry's side of the story is coming out tonight
Stay tuned

There's one part of the story... Hold ur money till they build the game!

#665 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

And how do you do that? You just ask, and it comes? I believe people have asked for a refund up to a week ago and heard nothing. Yes, Phil's been issuing refunds without people asking for them, but for the rest of us who didn't get a refund through Phil, I can't see DP coughing up... maybe I'm wrong... I certainly haven't tried to get a refund yet... Although my wife is pushing me to ask for one... I still want the pin... bailing out isn't going to help make that happen... Saying that, if I had got a refund through Phil, I'd probably hang on to it!!

Listen to ur wife... If shit goes wrong she will hang it over ur head lol

#673 4 years ago
Quoted from Cenobyte:

I don't like people like Snowden. They tend to reveal lots of secrets trying to prove their point, hurting lots of other people along the way. In Snowden's case this has been proven already. The big picture is not the goal anymore, it's trying to prove YOU are right, not caring about the fallout for all other people conceirned. We still haven't seen any concrete proof here, just a bunch of onesided accusations. And it's a pity how some people here take only that info to blow it all up to Hiroshima proportions without even waiting for a reply from the other side of this vicious fight. It's been 24 hours, FGS...

The best part of this situation isn't a story about the issues, it's the story that a guy is giving back people their money!!!!!!! Regardless of why, it's the only comforting outcome

#690 4 years ago

U think its bullshit that people are getting money back? U rather them be screwed out of it!

#696 4 years ago
Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

The decision:
do we transfer Dutch Pinball Inc to Barry / Dutch Pinball BV
or
do I refund all the money, drain PayPal to zero, and shut the business down.

Send people their money... Let them decide to reinvest

#850 4 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

It's really sad seeing a company dispute that should be private aired out like this amongst the public. Even sadder that people's excitement for this pin went from 100 to 30 in a matter of seconds. Boutique pinball needs to be funded by wealthy backers, not pinball collectors with pre-orders. All day, all I could think about was this: how is 10K too much money to secure the Kahlua license? Heck we make $15,000 mood videos for new biz pitches. Nobody wants to feel that the company making their pin is hurting for cash, especially if that said company took their cash. So sad. Hope it all works out. But threads like this are becoming all too common lately.

Just to refresh some old discussions its common for license break down to be about $25 a game total So $10k just for the kalua would be too much.

#853 4 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

You're acting like DP is already the Bernie Madoff of pinball and now it's a race to get money out before it's too late. I don't think we're there. I would think that anyone starting a pinball company should have at least a good million in cash to ensure the game could be made and made right without having to take customer money. Heck, a million probably is even way too low. You need that to start a dive bar in NYC

A million in cash doesn't start a pinball company... I can guaranty u.

#856 4 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

Yeah but on a 9K pin, doesn't that total per game increase?

No... What u sell the game for doesn't dictate the license fee...there's a cash number they want. U base that number off how many u know u can sell. Once u exceed that number of sales u did well. Ur license is for a time period, if u didn't sell that total u expected tuff cookie, u have to buy the license again to extend the production period...

#858 4 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

Then how did Skit-B get off the ground?

U said a pinball company not a boutique shop making 200 games. A pinball company making thousands of games is more then 1mill... Much much more

#899 4 years ago

I can see it now. Someone who can't get their money back will be at a show near the game and drop kick the bitch! Lol

17
#906 4 years ago
Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

Barry has control of the whole dutchpinball.com domain, and after I left, he locked me out of my email account, which is ok, but I just found out this morning that he used my old email address to create a new PayPal account.
So, anyone thinking they were making payments towards their account with Dutch Pinball USA Inc. has actually been paying directly to Barry.
That's why no payments have come to DP USA in December. From the customer's perspective everything looks normal.
***PAYMENTS MADE TO MY OLD EMAIL (PHIL@) SHOW UP AS PAYPAL *PHIL AND ARE NOT DP USA!***
The real Dutch Pinball USA, Inc. account with the Tax IDs is G88R6QGWR8T7A.
Barry, you've cut off my access to the account list, taken my email address to open a new account, are taking all the new payments to DP USA, BUT ARE STILL LEAVING ME WITH THE LIABILITY FOR EVERY SINGLE PAYMENT?
WTF DUDE. Is THIS why you've been stalling me for SIX WEEKS? And you KNEW I had oncology on November 24 and was on "vacation" until at least January. This is a new level of LOW.
Someone, anyone that knows Barry and Jaap: Let them know. Either these guys take full control of this company, so it doesn't matter where the funds are deposited, and they can legally stick the cash in their mattresses for all I care, or I am officially filing a complaint with IC3.gov for this.
Now you all know why I went public. It was the only way to find out what the hell was going on.

Screen Shot 2014-12-15 at 12.48.... 26 KB

emailconfirmation-694.jpg 61 KB

Wow... How does anyone still need to wait for the other side of the story?

#908 4 years ago

Ic3.gov is a group made up partially by the FBI!
Not something anyone should take lightly

#1123 4 years ago

This is better then the aus jjp dealer that fucked people over... I thought that was crazy as personal shot was posted.... Keep going Phil, send back people's money let them decide to reinvest

#1211 4 years ago

I can't wait to see the hostility boil over into the jpop thread... I'm sure it will... If u havnt got a refund stop being delusional and get one. Then buy it when it's made.. Or if

#1281 4 years ago
Quoted from cyclone1234:

Roger Sharp is the king of Licensing!

imagine how much hes going to tell them they have to change cause none of its secure now...not the art not the sound none...he wont get to use everything they have incorperated...they will have some issues

#1538 4 years ago

I wouldn't call it a scam since they made a working game... Misappropriations of money or using Peter to cover Paul's ass isn't the smartest move.

#1551 4 years ago
Quoted from Oldgoat:

There have traditionally been two funding models for startups. The first, and most prevalent is the self-funded/networked model. This is where you put in your own cash and supplement that with $ from friends and family. They pitch in because 1) They think you are smart, ambitious, etc. and will be successful or 2) They have visions of the business becoming the next Facebook, Starbucks, etc. and believe their $5k will turn into $5mm. This is the easy way because you, your family and friends are investing in you and the idea. They don't care about a business plan. "It's a great idea" "Bob is such a hard worker and so smart" "I'm gonna be rich!"
The second funding model is via investors (bank, VC firms, etc.). They really don't care if you are nice, smart, ambitious, etc. (Ok they care about that a little bit). What they are focused on is the business plan. Have you done your homework, are all the risks identified, market research analysis completed, staffing model reasonable, logistical components in place, financial models make sense, etc.
What is interesting is this new model, i.e., the Kickstarter model being used by these small pinball companies. This model is really nothing more than the first one. One is simply expanding the 'family and friends' willing to invest in the business. You don't see the business plan so you have no idea if it is well thought out, complete and viable. The one difference is, in this case, you are investing in people you don't even know. You actually have less info about the people and the business plan than you have when your brother-in-law says 'Hey I've got a great idea for a business'
Obviously, your money, your risk. But I would only play this game with money I am willing to lose. And while I would be disappointed, I would not be shocked if it ended up badly.

We self funded our business four plus years ago. The thousands we invested was supplied by me and one other partner. The third while not investing any cash was actually the smart one on how to run the Buisness 100% legit and by the book. To the point where it's almost a pain in the ass...but that's what it takes. If the Buisness is run by the seat of your pants it won't succeed. Money management seems to be lacking in every crowd funded project. Guess its diff when it's your own money on the line.

#1921 4 years ago

Dp- don't preorder
Dp- disgruntled personnel

#2032 4 years ago

crazy...i wonder if phil will continue to refund dp deposits if barry refuses to give him a ss number for the buisness to take him off....phil could continue to mess with him

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