I got a refund also, I sent Barry an email. I don't see a way to resubmit payment without it wanting to charge me the 9 grand instead of the early preorder price with the extras. I guess I'll just sit on the money and wait for a response.

Do any of you know if that's supposed to be an immediate charge back to your credit or debit card through PayPal with a refund? Only reason I asked is the card I originally used was compromised a couple weeks ago so I updated my PayPal with the new card number they sent out and my bank account isnt showing a refund processing on account details. It seems that money may be sitting in PayPal limbo because my PayPal account isnt showing $4500 in available funds.

Cool thanks.

Seems Phil is acting like an idiot. Disgruntled ex-employee, I wouldn't hire this guy after this mess.

You're dragging customers into your mess, shoulda thrown your dirty laundry out the car window Walter style.

How do you know this is true?

Why would you put your own money into a company you didn't own a part of? Sounds shady to me.

By the sound of these problems, Im guessing TBL will never make it to production if what Phil is saying is true.

Its not even in the same realm, we are putting money into a company for a product, what product is Phil set to receive?

The most promising looking machine in a while and it will probably never see the light of day.

If what Phil is saying is true, my money is safer today then yesterday because its in my PayPal account.

I hope you get your money back ice, man what a mess.

Cool idea

So when the game was brought to expo you and dutch pinball didn't have the approval of universal to advertise the machine in its current state? So how many items on the playfield have not been approved?

I wanted this game so bad, this is a travesty.

R.I.P. Pre-order 2014

Why would DP make a mention about not having the rights to use kahlua when they supposedly never had the rights to using John Goodman in the game? We really need to hear the other side to this story.

Edit: I just seems odd to fret over kahlua when the supporting actor of the movie never approved.

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Yeah he said he was staying aboard.

Oh I see, thanks for the clarification.

If you missed it he also blew the top on what I assume is DP's second game, Back to the future. This is gonna be a tough mess to clean up.

This is where im scratching my head. I think back to jareds video on the dp seminar and Phil was spouting how they have the license to all the songs and content seems like a disgruntled employee to me, correct me if I'm wrong.

Really? Does it do the sound activated lights? Sounds cool.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full

The PayPal deal at 180 days is only on purchases after November 18, so only 45 days on most who have made payments pre 11/18

Sounds cool, what price and would it work on acdc?

Well if I stay in on the hobbit I may be interested in one.

Ill check it out, thanks. Im still in on hobbit right now se #7?

Yeah its the customers fault... Mmmmkay

Its unbelievable that im taking a stand for the customers you're berating because they want their money back on this whole mess? You're taking my comment out of context, I am in no way saying anything about the death of a family member.

Whatever dude, us customers aren't forming a lynch mob, we are scrambling to recover thousands of dollars from this mess of a pinball company. I've read all your posts, im not turning your word's around. Expecting people to be chill and sit tight and making it seem like we are paranoid, overreacting, or just plain crazy for not waiting to hear the other side of the story is a terrible idea. The way I see it, get your money back then wait for a response from the other side cause that money may not be there tomorrow.

That would be a good idea, but go astep further, combine DP with Heighway, Skit-B and any other small pin company and combine resources and make a powerhouse. Sounds awesome but highly unlikely. There is a lot of creative minds in those groups.

Can I pay cash?

Still no response from dp

It's just a fuse.

Im in a bit of a bind regarding my pre-order, I was refunded my money back to paypal without requesting it so those funds immediately said refund processed on paypal, that is going to a debit card that was compromised a couple of weeks ago but listed under credit cards on paypal(not debit card, because its easier to add it to the account that way in paypal) so I received the new debit card added to paypal under credit cards and now those refunded funds are sitting in limbo for possibly up to 30 days. Even if I want to stay in on TBL I wont have the funds available now, so this whole thing is a big clusterf@#k.

I also need to see a little more and also have some kind of reassurance that my money is safe(not sure thats even possible). I get your passion for this project and I would love to see it made but I was sold on a game that we all just found out could be completely different from what DP and Phil sold us at Expo. The least of my worries is the place in line I keep, you can have game #1 for all I care but this company has done nothing to build confidence. If anything they should be extending payments to a later date until they get this whole thing straightened out and make the price $8500 period and get rid of the 9k price tag.

There is also the question of whats gonna happen with all the US buyers? Are we now gonna get screwed on shipping and exchange rates? That wasn't what I was sold and it is sounding like DP USA is gonna be absolved and also our deposits are going overseas now, what recourse do we have if we want to get a refund? Does it change everything or nothing? These are the questions I have.

This is the biggest question that needs to be answered for me as a US buyer.

That event was specifically set up because of the Dutch Pinball cancelation of the show in Texas. Was it necessary? No, did DP want to make up for the cancelation? Yes.

To Phils credit he quit 6 weeks ago.

Phil never owned part of the company, I believe he stated as much somewhere in this shitstorm of a thread.

This was my question: Why would you put your own money into a company you didn't own a part of? Sounds shady to me.

Phil's response: I did it because they were my friends. I told them on day one that I would even work for them for free.

Maybe im misunderstanding but Phil's mistake was putting his social security number on a PayPal account for DP USA.

I know I got an unrequested refund but my funds are on a 30 day hold to go back to my card and I sent an email to Barry about the situation and the fact that I now won't have the funds to stay back in till well after the 3rd payment but he hasn't responded yet. I'm sure he is swamped with emails so I'll try and stay patient.

I did the same, its on a 30 day hold, I can't stay in if the funds are on hold. Hopefully Barry gets back to me soon.

I think at this point no one cares about the license stuff, it's all about the money. "Where's the f**kin money Lebowski? Where's the f**kin money sh*thead?"

I'd think now is a good time to initiate a thread eject mods.

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This letter did nothing for me to alleviate the panic, I think it's crazy to ask for the next payment. That ship has sailed for me, if they wanted more people to stay in and also more to sign on then they would have had it be a half down deposit and no further payments till it shipped or in production. That's my opinion. Also the plaque is a joke, we need reassurance that everyone that asked for a refund will receive one and a time line to follow. There were questions I asked that went unanswered and that itself was enough for me to wait and not resubmit my payment. I received an unauthorized refund from Phil and that money won't go back to my account for a couple more weeks and if I wanted to stay in I'm forced out because of Dutch pinball. So for me it's safe to say I'm more than likely out for good. A rug, chrome and plaque is not worth the uncertainty.

Yeah they need to get with it and address the last part of your post. I sent an email a couple days ago and received no response. The fact of the matter is because of Phil sending me an unauthorized refund (thanks Phil, sincerely) the funds are still about 2 weeks out to hit my account so I was forced into a position of not being able to be completely paid up on the preorder until a couple weeks from now. Do I lose my place in line? If I decide to stay in do I now have to pay 9k instead of 8500 and also lose out on the preorder bonuses? Maybe this is a blessing and I should stay out? Why can't DP come to pinside and have a Q and A with it's customers and figure out a new preorder model and answer the concerns of the people that are investing in them?

The only benefit of the preorder for me is the $500 savings and if I have to pay 9k I more than likely will never own TBL. You have to draw a money line somewhere. I'm guessing this post will fall on deaf ears and I'll be sitting here scratching my head wondering if DP will ever answer our concerns.

So the code is very near completion from the version that was at expo? If this is true I wasn't that impressed with the code in the video I saw.

That's what I figured also but the post I quoted from mnpinball threw me for a loop unless I misunderstood him.

Thank you for asking directly, I was a bit put off by that comment and its good to know they plan on making the game deep.

I believe they are still trying to situate the DP USA branch that way they can get the ball rolling on refunds. It's not a quick process apparently.

Says the guy with the name Gorf and an avatar of Darth Vader. Pot, kettle and all that shit.