(Topic ID: 112377)

DP USA Refund - Still Want the Game


5 years ago

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#933 5 years ago

This situation is extremely unprofessional. This is a company matter not something you expose part of on the Internet to slight people against your own company. If any of you think that leaving a company that you helped create, operated as a international organization can be simply walked away from, your crazy. If he truly wanted to leave the company he should have done it in a professional manner and set up everything prior to leaving. Even if the current owners did not want to or are too lazy to, he should have set everything up for them transfer funds as needed and leave the company in a healthy state. At this point he is doing irrevocable damage which is completely unneeded, leaving himself vulinerable, and creating constrination that is uncalled for. If your an adult enough to start a company and be in charge of funds, get your act together, be responsible and when you decide you can't hack it anymore do the proper thing and leave the company in a safe and sound state. I hate it when people just throw their hands up and walk away. Phil was once in a position to handle the funds of the company, he could have left the company in a manner that did not damage his reputation and more importantly the reputation of dp.

#1653 5 years ago
Quoted from burningman:

Absolutely I would.
Really whats the difference? If DP came out of the gate saying that Sharpe was on board everyone would have said, "Daaaauuuuumn! They got the big Gun!"
Now they are saying, "we got the big Gun"...I felt confident before, but now....sheeeeit..our worries are over dude.

I don't care who they have. If universal does not want to sign off on the project they won't. They will do as they see fit, not as dp sees fit.

#1709 5 years ago

I requested refunds for two machines via an email to Barry and Phil. I will report back the response I get from them. At this point I can not trust a company that is in disarray and would prefer to wait until the project has progressed further and these details are all worked out. There is literally no point in risking 10k at this point.

#1734 5 years ago

Within minutes barry got back to me and said he would process a refund. I think that says a lot and I may not change my mind to keep my games in place.

#1740 5 years ago
Quoted from Soltic:

Wtf seriously? He ain't getting back to me after he emailed me yesterday morning giving me Phil's personal email and telling me to get refunded from him.

I may have sent my deposits to a different location.

#1821 4 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

Walter is going to pull a CHris Farley - sooner rather than later.
BTW, what a fucking hypocrite. That fucker is more than willing to cash the checks for being a gun-wielding lunatic on screen, but he's protective of his image in the supermarket? FUKC that fat turd!


Times like this make it hard not to attack fellow pinsiders.

#1851 4 years ago

Just received an email from Barry. Not promising. He told me he does not have access to the funds and that he sent my refund request to Phil and that he hopes Phil will process the refund soon. I had a bunch of follow up questions I sent him. Let's see if they are answered.

#1889 4 years ago
Quoted from goatdan:

If the risk was listed as 100% in Phil's name (thanks to my SSN being used in the account), why doesn't he have the right to deny them access to the account? Not saying that they would, but if the other principals took the money out of the account with no intention to send those people machines, it is going to show up as 100% on Phil's back.

At no point has money been misappropriated or stolen. Where are you getting that.

#1897 4 years ago
Quoted from aeonblack:

Phil himself said Barry stole 60k. Barry didn't say "nope" at any point. Yes, only one side of the story, but it's the only side we publicly have right now.
Please read the whole thread before commenting.

I have read this whole thread, I have been here the entire time. Phil said Barry took the money but did not state that he stole it. For all we know that was his compensation or reimbursement for funds he put into the company. Phil never said he stole the money. He said that he had to help make up that money, but again we have no idea that it was stolen. Maybe you should read the thread before you comment.

Quoted from goatdan:

I never said that it was, but again - do you KNOW this, or do you just FEEL this? If it was misappropriated, Phil would get 100% of the blame. And, again, Phil as of 6 weeks ago is no longer part of the company, so that feels unfair.
But hey, my skin ain't in it, and there is a rug to be had. I'll stop now.

Please everyone stop saying Phil left the company 6 weeks ago. You don't just leave a company you own and expect it to stop your responsibility with a lousy email. It needs to be done in a legal manner and that has yet to occur. Sorry but it is on Phil just as much as it is every other owner of the company.

#1900 4 years ago
Quoted from aeonblack:


"all to cover his theft"
I would say that implies theft, no?

No. Phil is extremely out of touch with the way the business world works if he conducts himself in the manner he has and his interpretation of how things should work is nothing short of delusional. If you read into his ranting and come away with what you think is truth, well, your just as delusional.

#1904 4 years ago
Quoted from aeonblack:

Me trying to get my refund so I can drain this cesspool of a thread:

This we both agree on. I'll still purchase the game when it's made but at this point, I'll just hold onto my cash if Phil ever decides he wants to refund it.

#1928 4 years ago

My question is, if they can not access it, will they honor it toward our purchase? I am sure they will but I would like to be assured of that.

#1984 4 years ago

FYI for those of you who are expecting instant refunds. Visa states that it is their policy that the vendor is given 20 days to process a refund from when you request it before they will initiate any type of charge back. So it is pretty standard to wait a few weeks for a refund to be processed.

1 week later
#2307 4 years ago

Does anyone actually take the time to update thier collection on pinside?

#2309 4 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

It's a bit simpler when you have 6 pins instead of 47

Good point. I actually did it a while back just to help others know where a few titles are if they wanted to try a game out. Basically if someone near me always wanted to try a title they could pm me. I really need to get around to updating it.

1 week later
#2667 4 years ago

I've been out of this thread about 350 posts ago. Just checking in to see if anyone has gotten their requested refund. Thanks

#2669 4 years ago
Quoted from aeonblack:

Not through DP. A few have gotten some money either through a paypal or amex claim/dispute, but AFAIK, nobody has gotten a refund through DP actually processing it.

Very disappointing...... especially given that Barry just puts it all on Phil.

#2673 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Perhaps its deserved.

obviously your not a business owner. You don't let your customers suffer at the hands of the people you decided to start a business with. You take care of your customers and get your shit together behind the scenes on your time and dime.

#2680 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Obviously you're not a business owner. I've been an entrepreneur the majority of my life and very well know the slings and arrows. Shit happens in EVERY business does it not? You do your best to minimize the impact on your customers and make it up to them when things are resolved. And that's what I see Dutch Pinball doing.
I've never had a partner in any of my business's so I can only imagine the destruction a trusted associate could do as an intentional saboteur. Especially the guy controlling the money. (this is speculation)
I believe Dutch Pinball "is" taking care of their customers and working behind the scenes as best they can given this situation. And they are doing it on their time and dime but given the pre-paid business model the money part is kinda muddled.
You've implied you're a business owner. Kinda surprised you wouldn't know that.

I currently run 3 businesses, belong to 2 LLP, and reside on 3 boards. I know how to run small to medium sized businesses, most larger than DP. I would never let my company operate the way they do, maybe that is why all of my ventures have been successful.

#2682 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Good for you.

DP = Not so good for any of their customers up until this point. I would put my money right back into the company if they could actually show that they have control of their business by refunding the money that we have been told from day one is always refundable. They have little control over their company, that should not be the customers problem. Handle your shit DP.

#2705 4 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

Didn't they send emails 12/15 and 12/31?
Saying exactly that they are working on it?

Yes however, as a customer that entered into a contract with dp to purchase a game that is refundable at any point, I want my refund and I don't care which of their entities provides it. If they don't have control over dpusa that is not my problem, they should be funding refunds from other entities of their company, even if it is a loan from one of thier other dp companies to dpusa. Why exactly are we forced to wait for them to figure out thier accounting problems? Pony up the cash owed to people and stop making your company look bad. I've always said I would be back in if I could get my refund, this wait has made me think twice about it. This whole situation is very un-dude.

#2724 4 years ago
Quoted from el_brio:

What they are trying to figure out probably is whether or not DP USA is still a going concern and whether or not they can fold the US operation if need be without affecting the parent company. At this point, loaning money to DP USA might be a bad idea.

It is irrelevant if they are going to fold up dp usa. Either way they will need to absorb the assets and liabilities of dp usa as the parent company or continue dp usa. Basically they are on the hook no matter what they end up doing with dp usa, so in the mean time take care of your customers first. Which is never a bad idea.

#2727 4 years ago
Quoted from Nilroc:

I do get a laugh at some of the "sky is falling" conjecture and speculation.
Everyone that has requested a refund will get a refund . This whole deal is because of a disgruntled employee. It will get all straightened out and we will be back on track.
Hopefully discussing NSN updates and not this pie in the sky made up crap.
Dudes it's time to chill. Go out bowling or something.
Not worth it to get all worried about posts that are exaggerated and mostly made up.
TBL is getting made and those of us that are still in are going to be very very happy we did.
Later Dudes!

I personally am not saying the sky is falling. I think this company has promise and a good shot to make one of the best pins. All I am saying is that it should not be the customers who suffer from their mismanagement. I do not see how anyone, including barry himself can say otherwise. Take funds, even if it is personal funds, and process these refunds. Its no ones fault but their own that this has been the debacle it has been. All of these would be cool and chill if in fact they could process refunds. I could care less about all the other bs of how the company is doing, who owns it, where the licensing is, etc. I was in for that from day one, I knew there would be bumps in the road, delays, changes etc, but what I did not sign up for is for them to royally mess up and put my money into a state that it could not be refunded as promised. Bottom line, DP is to blame, as stated before, when we made our payments we made them to DP per the website. DP, Barry, whoever it takes process our refunds and most of us will still be on board to support you. There is literally not one reason this can not be done other than they do not have the financial backing to process the refunds, its plain and simple folks.

#2743 4 years ago
Quoted from HENSBROOKER:

You draw conclusions while you don't know shit! You gave your opinion already, dude. No reason to keep on.
- Btw... I think a lot of you act real un-dude here...

What conclusions have I drawn? I simply stated that I requested a refund, Barry does nothing more than blame Phil and that is a pathetic way to run a company. Am I wrong?

#2745 4 years ago
Quoted from HENSBROOKER:

Sorry... Can't say anything. But my advice would be to stay confident and stay in... You won't be disappointed at all!

Ah yes, you know all. Why not put an end to everyone's concern and share? If you can't than urge Barry to. If you can not admit there is a serious problem with the way this company is conducting itself than you are an unreasonable person and I ask that you put me on ignore because I will continue to state my concern until people are refunded based on the terms that DP promised from day one. At no point did I not hold up my end of this arrangement, all my payments were made, why are you saying it is okay for them to not hold up thier end? Because it's a great title and they are great guys? Sorry that's just not how the world works.

#2746 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

No walter you're not wrong, you're just an asshole

Agree, I am an asshole, an asshole with no answers other than finger pointing and 8500 short in the bank.

#2749 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Very interesting your posts about stern and then DP. You really paid in full? Have you emailed Barry?

I have emailed Barry. His response was that he told Phil to refund me and that hopefully he will. I didn't pay in full, I was purchasing two games. I'll send Barry another follow up email. I guess I don't understand all the secrecy around why everyone feels so at ease all of a sudden. Why not share with everyone the information that eliminates the concerns?

#2759 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

"my end of this arrangement, all my payments were made,"
"Agree, I am an asshole, an asshole with no answers other than finger pointing and 8500 short in the bank."
Nothing wrong with wanting some answers . Barry has answered all my emails within a day. I am sure he will get back to you. Your posts are a bit misleading though . So you have 4250 x 2 in?

I purchased the two machines at different times, so I think they have slightly different schedules or payments? I have to ask what you meant when you referred to my posts about stern and dp. I was a huge supporter of dp, still a supporter of the project, just a shame to see the business ran so poorly. It's unacceptable. As for stern, they do a lot I disagree with, i have no qualms about discussing that.

#2762 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

We get it as you've flogged this dead horse deader. I can summarize all of your multiple comments here in 5 words. "The customer is always right". A quote that dates back to early 20th century and taught in our high schools.
Additional inference that you would do it better is self-aggrandizing and trite. Your simplistic view is based on incomplete evidence of whats happening behind the scenes.
I don't have a crystal ball but my prediction is you will be refunded your money in due time. My further prediction is you will continue to complain after receiving your money.
By the way, I deleted and replaced my smart-ass comment to you on the previous page. It was unnecessary and I apologize.

No need to apologize, but appreciate it. I usually don't try and beat a dead horse but I felt as though maybe people did not understand that I was not making any assumptions but stating the simple facts of my situation with dp. The summary of my complaint is:
Ask Barry and Phil for a refund
Barry said I will ask Phil to refund you and I hope he does
End of communication for over three weeks.
I don't care how or who, but my point has been that dp has internal issues. That's their problem not mine and they should take care of thier customer first.

Your customer is always right standpoint is not something I believe to be true. Plenty of instances where this is not the case.

Anyway, I don't take any of pinside personal, hope others don't take what I say as personal either. If we all didn't disagree this place sure would be boring.

Btw- I also think I will be refunded at some point. As long as there is a solid plan in place from dp, I will be handing my money right back to them.

#2766 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Wouldn't it be better then given your intentions that they get everything sorted and presented publically in a way that you are satisfied such that you just stay in? Better for them, better for you (save $1k between the two games). Curious if there's any circumstance that would get you into that position ?

Yes and no. I have been in this situation in the past, trusted people and they get lazy and nothing comes of it. I basically started my venting with one simple thought and that was that they need to figure out their problems on their time and dime, not mine. Many people liked that, others here did not. Then we discussed for the last few pages.

All in all, yes I will still be in, save the 1k, but I would like to see something change other than blaming Phil. That's all. Phil has screwed things up for dp and I do sympathize, however how much time does that buy them before they should have an answer for us.

At the end of the day, we are all here for the same reason, play and enjoy pinball and hopefully one day we can al be playing tbl. In the meantime let's argue and discuss, the only other thing I have to do is work and that's not any better.

#2774 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I sent Inhomearcades a private message concerning our banter. Very nice exchange and I think I've acquired a new friend.

For sure.

#2797 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

I'm pretty sure you expose yourself to strangers at the local playground.
I have as much proof of that statement as you do for yours... But shit, why not put it out there, right?

Most people here are getting upset about conjecture but at this point the only people to blame for that is DP. If they would actually inform thier customers of what is going on we wouldn't be hearing about these conspiracy theories. DP is long overdue for action and explanation and until that happens people are going to continue to guess as to why this whole situation has not been resolved. Bottom line is refunds have not been given, communication is lacking and for all we know it could be a long time coming.

I don't understand people's need to defend DP to the death, if an individual conducted themselves this way on this forum and not DP, people would be looking to stone them.

#2799 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Big supporter but I agree. They need to push for closure.

I am a supporter as well, although I don't come across that way most of the time. I think people find it hard to understand that you can support a company and at the same time criticize that company. Everyone here seems to be very black and white on the subject. Just like Curtis_playfield giving my statement a thumbs down. I don't get that, what I said is very honest and not bashing DP, just stating facts and yet he will thumbs down it because those facts are not pro DP. People need to understand you can support a company and question them all at the same time.

#2801 4 years ago

So my secretary just brought me the mail. DP USA just sent me my t-shirts. So the good news is that they do have people in the US working at this time. The question I have is, if they are paying to ship these t-shirts out and the label is from DPUSA, who paid for the postage?

#2803 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

Another possibility is that he wanted to give you a thumbs up, but was using a iPhone and missed the spot by a couple of pixels... it's not an un-common thing...
I would also like to hear some kind of public statement from DP about all this, it's about time we got some facts laid on the table!!

I can see that, my damn fat thumb does it all the time.

#2805 4 years ago
Quoted from Sjsilver:

Yeah, if you are assuming that Curtis_playfield is giving you a thumbs down because she (it's a she) is one of the DP defender squad, you haven't been keeping up. She's been very vocal about how shitty their response was to her refund request that came BEFORE all this blew up, and especially after which has been a lot of passing the buck and stonewalling.
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of people on this thread who will down vote any and every post that is negative in any way towards DP, but CP isn't one of them.

Yea she actually sent me a pm to clariy. She apologized and I let her know that no apology needed. I was just using her as an example at the time for people that blindly support DP no matter what. I apologized for using her as my example. Nice of her to send me a pm though.

#2838 4 years ago

And the speculation continues. Who cares about the licensing issues. They have bigger concerns on their hands, people want thier money back. Until they can address that by either finding money to process those refunds or pleasing people to stay in, there's no point in working out other problems as a priority. Not saying they should sit and twiddle thier thumbs, but figure out how to take care of the giant gash the company is bleeding from and then focus on building the game and recapturing customers and gaining new ones. The longer this goes on, the more people that are going to back out and the longer new people will not be signing up. Refunds first would be the best money they can spend at this point, they will see that money back in new orders or people jumping back in because they can show they have thier finances under control. Have to spend money to get money back in.

#2859 4 years ago

I am so sick of all the positive response of how DP is moving forward and how production will start. Bottom line is:
Phil was out of his element.
And "where's the money lebowski?"

All anyone should give a crap about is the financial state of the company, with out cash the licenses, production, distribution will never proceed. They need money to do that, so they can either fix the problem with thier customers and send refunds, or continue to ignore that problem as they have the past month and act like nothing is wrong and operate as usual. Sorry guys but a few emails saying Phil will refund me is not at all comforting to me and it shouldn't be to those who are still in. What's 8k on a project this huge? They should be able to cut a check for 8k like its nothing.

#2863 4 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

We all agree your issues should be fixed. Nobody is denying that.
But telling that on about a thousand times in the same topic, wont help you.

I'm going to continue to state it 1000 more until people stop drinking the DP koolaid and ask the most import questions. DP has done a great job of continuing to snowball people. Like a magician they are directing most people's attention away from the most important state of the company. They continue to tour and show the machine, continue to take orders for the machine as well as talk to individuals about the progress they are making with the game. But when the money issue comes up its "don't say peep while I'm doing business"

#2864 4 years ago

Razorbak- completely agree.

#2867 4 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

So, your view its not allowed to say DP needs to fix these issues AND be positive of all other stuff they are working on?
Cause then you get sick?

Stay positive, yea I guess. If they have the funds to throw more parties, time to respond to new orders and new money as well as money from curgent owners still paying thier money in then they have time and ability to refund others.

#2879 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

That's like saying 'I need a roof over my head, so I'm going to fix it by knocking the walls of my house down'...

Please explain your statement. You can't simply quote part of what I said and put a sarcastic analogy like its a counter argument and expect people to understand.

As I see it, if they process refunds they will achieve more for this project than anything else they can do at this point.

If refunds are processed:
-It will provide the illusion they have control over their finances and money management
-Confidence will be regained in their management (I have zero at this point)
-with some confidence regained there is a chance some of those refunds will be sent right back into the company (increasing their cash flow)
-New customers will not hesitate to sign up and get in the on the project (increasing their cash flow)
-Eliminate the conspiracy bs surrounding the company
-Customer confidence is the only reason this company started, now they are losing it at an incredible rate each day they let slip by.

What I would really like to know is when was the last requested refund was received as well as when was the last requested refund has not been returned. We all know the day phil went a little crazy, but that is not necessarily day zero. Day zero would be when the first requested refund was ignored. Does anyone know when this is?

#2882 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

That's very short sighted. It assumes that capital is fixed and financing is a zero-sum game. "If refunds are processed, the company goes bankrupt. If no refunds are processed, then the games can be made." It all assumes that the amount of cash in the pot is fixed.
The company needs more capital. When they get more capital, they can issue refunds, build the games, make a profit on the venture, and then repay the investors and/or lenders who provided the capital.

This is true, but if they push this all off until the games are made, those people that wanted those refunds would rather have the game I am sure. The reality is that all of us are at the mercy of DP. They can decide to not refund people and build the game, they could decide to go bankrupt, they could decide any number of things and the reality is that there is almost nothing we can do about it. At the same time, we all knew that before we gave them our money. As much as I want to blame DP for this whole mess, they didn't put a gun to my head and force me to send them the money. I can accept that I am to blame for them having my cash.

#2898 4 years ago
Quoted from calvin12:

no one here other than DP has any money invested in the company, stop acting like you are have an investment. You have a purchase request and deposit. You are a consumer, not an investor.

I'll be a consumer once I recieve something.

#2899 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

Mixed 15mins ago and consumed 5mins ago! It's interesting that the glass used in the game looks identical to my own choice of receptacle for the same beverage! It is my most modestly priced receptacle! Cheers everyone!

WR.jpg 76 KB

Gotta replace that cream with Irish cream. The only way I take my Caucasian is vodka, kaluah and baileys.

#2947 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Funny thing is, "shutting up" the critics would be even easier than that.
If DP just refunded the growing list of folks that have requested them, I suspect the concerns would be either completely or at least dramatically reduced.
And btw, all the conjecture in these threads is 99% the fault of poor communication from the company.... Pinside, like nature, abhors a vacuum.


#2953 4 years ago
Quoted from Nilroc:

I know from emails from Barry that they are still on schedule to start production April 1st.

Maybe DP could do something about informing their customers. What exactly is DP doing these days?

#2968 4 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

Why does it appear this company wont make it?
Cause of some negative blokes on a forum?
Please.... Give me a break.

To the death. Defend them to the death and ignore all the current issues.

#3013 4 years ago

40 posts since I was on last. I thought new shit had come to light. Nope, pitch black on the DP horizon.

#3022 4 years ago
Quoted from dasvis:

You're out of your element.

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

#3031 4 years ago

Okay so apparently there are still people working at DP just not communicating with people about the financial status of the company or where all US orders stand. Wtf

#3042 4 years ago
Quoted from twominds:

It has been 7 weeks since I first requested a refund. I have gotten the same bullshit responses everyone else has. I just emailed Barry and told him I want to money immediately. I have a very strong business relationship with Paypal and have already spoken with them. They asked me if I wanted to file a Fraud case with them which could pretty much lock DP's ability to take more money and would lock whatever funds are in the account...especially if they receive additional complaints. But again, Paypal said this may take time. If I do not hear from Barry in the next day or two I will file these charges and I will also contact my Credit Card who can at least help in getting the money back...hopefully.
Doesn't this just sound like thievery to anyone else? The apologists in the thread really surprise me. Issuing refunds is a click of a button.


Why anyone would thumbs down your post is beyond me. I love how people continue to defend DP when it has been almost two months since your requested your refund.

#3043 4 years ago

I would also like to give an opportunity to those of you that believe in DP so much that you can't admit they continue to ignore their customers, haphazardly run a company, misuse funds, irresponsibly manage their deposit money, etc etc. If you would like to continue to support them, go all the way. I have two games on deposit with them. Truly show your support and buy my games out. Come on, as most of you say there is nothing to worry about here, so go ahead and send me the money to buy me out and you will have your place in line.

It will be interesting to see who steps up. I have a feeling I will hear crickets just like we do from DP themselves.

#3046 4 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

I wish DP would issue refunds so that all of you guys would shut the fuck up!

me too. Care to buy a TBL?

#3054 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinbally_1968:

Why is ''getting my refund'' suddenly is the most important topic about TBL here. The moment you decided to pre-order you knew there was some risk involved, not saying that you shouldn't be worried in this situation, but hey, thats the game you played. Asking for a refund is a valid question as DP stated that a refund is possible untill your machine goes into production. But why asking for a refund while some individuals spontanious got it? it shouldn't make a difference for those who didn't get the spontanious refund. For all of them the situation remains the same. You pre-ordered and you are still at the same risk. Same as me. Just hang in there, TBL will come.

Have you not followed this thread and the current status of the finances of DP USA?

#3062 4 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

You did. And still you dont no shit about dp financial status.

Please enlighten me as to where my money is. How about you enlighten everyone that paid money into DPUSA?

#3072 4 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

I dont know. Just like you. But i am not assuming i know anything about their financial status.
You do. But in fact, you dont know anything.
I already said, its a shame they dont solve this issue. But even now they dont, this does not say anything about their financial status.
Maybe this case is going to court, have you think about that? Maybe that is why they are silent about this case. I dont know it, but you cant know for sure either.
You are upset, and thats why you are making statements just out of the blue.
1. you dont know anything about their financial status. period.
2. You have a good reason to be upset.
Please downvote if you cant handle the truth.

What are you talking about? I have not made conclusions about thier financial status other than they do not have control over thier dpusa finances as they have admitted. Barry himself has stated this. Your delusional if you can not see and admit that. Also, if they are headed to court, that does nothing but confirm they do not have control of the dpusa funds. i can't decide if your trolling, haven't actually followed this thread, or just that dumb to not see the actual facts that are out there. I am not here spitting out conspiracy theories, I'm simply stating the facts about DP and how they are running thier business.

#3073 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I'm actually surprised there isn't more outrage right now.
We STILL don't know what the Paypal/Phil/DP USA situation is. Barry has sent me reassuring Emails, but it's still so vague! I'm a chill dude, so I'm kind of in a "well what the fuck can I do but wait" mode....but it still baffles me that this hasn't been hammered out yet.

I'm in the same boat. Barry has yet to admit that all dpusa customers will definitely get credit for thier payments. I got burned on 12k of pins last year because I was laid back and didn't push the people when things started to seem funny about the situation. Some of that is spilling over for me here for sure. What I do know is that for me, the preorder risk was fine with thier refund policy. They never expected that thier partner would bail on them, thier partner never expected to get sick nor did he expect them to bend the legalities of the license as much as they did. A lot of unexpected things have happened and still are happening with this company, at the end of the day I choose to support these guys when they showed that they had a business sense about them, that's all out the window. I understand they may want all thier Ducks in a row before they announce something, however when that takes almost two months, it is completely unacceptable to go dark for that long.

#3075 4 years ago
Quoted from bemmett:

Fool me once shame on you.....Fool me twice.....well you know.
We are all upset, all of us who are vested want word of where our money is but bitching over and over and over does not make it better. As far as I see it, DP seeing all the negative comments about people wanting money back probably just makes their situation worse in figuring out how to deal with it all and still trying to find the best way to bring this to market. But keep going on if you feel it helps. At this point all I can do is sit back and hope for the best, remained in as civil conversations as I can with DP directly, feel I have done about all I can beyond pursuing the legal side, not much else can be done but wait and hope.

I'm not bitching. I haven't bothered DP other than a few emails and have remained civil with them as well. The only reason why I post in this thread is the few people here that continue to call people such as myself out for not knowing anything and that we should get over it. There are a few people here that just can't admit there are serious problems with the current situation at DP. Those are the people that are the worst to have to deal with in this whole situation.

#3077 4 years ago
Quoted from bemmett:

I don't know what to think to be honest, like I said all I can do is hope. I don't blame anyone for being pissed, I was furious for a month and realized it wasn't going to help me. All I can do is hope and communicate with them the best I can to try and help rectify the situation if possible. There is obviously an issue that is for sure but everyone speculating about their current financial situation is nothing other than guess work. My guess and belief is they are rectifying the situation with Phil and the money and as soon as they do they will issue refunds to those that truly want them and I feel that if it appears they have it worked out and everything is back on track, many people who wanted out will stay in cause they really want the pinball

I am likely in the boat of people that will stay in. I have also come to the realization that there is little any of us can do about it. It's a shame that simple communication would elevate the majority of the problems in this case.

#3080 4 years ago
Quoted from zucot:

I have always gotten prompt replies from Barry, including today.
The reality of the situation is that there will be no news until a transfer agreement is signed. The worst thing that they could do is announce a date for an update and then miss it.
Consider that all of this started going down over the holidays, while Phil was undergoing treatment, and with multiple timezones involved.
Anyone stepping in to engineer the transfer needed time to dig into the history, both perspectives, negotiate a mediation and then paper and sign it. That stuff just takes time.
Should it have been handled before? Yes. Posturing to get their PayPal account frozen isn't going to help anyone at this point.

I agree that freezing their account will not help anyone, thus why I have not initiated a claim or charge back.

#3082 4 years ago
Quoted from Curtis_Playfield:

I am not expecting any news from DP any time soon, they have made it very clear that they are not giving up any information much less returning any money in any reasonable timeframe. And at this point I'm at peace with that. Did they blow through the money and screw everything up? Hope not! Are they going to realign themselves and get the game out? Hopefully. Why they'd just "sit on" any good news they have over there is beyond me, so I just assume the news isn't too good right now, and that's ok.
What I'm NOT at peace with is you DP apologists telling me how to think and feel about it. Honestly Plungemaster? It's at the point where you're playing this in such a willfully ignorant manner that I don't even want to be associated with you in terms of game ownership. I don't know if it's a language barrier or what, but the stuff you're typing is nothing! Half-thoughts and grandpa insults! Just stop trying to defend them; people like you are the ones causing the most damage to DP at this juncture. I guess you think you're helping them? But your manner is just so ignorant and abrasive that I don't even want to own the same games as you and it's YOU driving the final spike between me and TBL, not DP.
Looking back, TBL was pretty damn solid in build, and it looked sharp. But the attitude around the whole thing was always off. I'd like to game but there's just too much unsavory "other" happening, and IMO the game is not actually good enough to bury all of the crap that's coming along with it. If DP has anything even remotely positive to share, they'd best be at it quick, before their "biggest supporters" accidentally tank this whole thing for them by pushing the remaining "maybes" into firm "absolutely no way in hells".

AMEN! (I'm not even religious but that compelled me to say that)

#3084 4 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

Did you mean "alleviate"? Funny, but your statement might also be true as it stands.

haha, yea I did. I type and talk on the phone at the same time every once in a while. Your right though, ironically both words would work.

#3089 4 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

Lmao, and you call other people dumb?

Yea I am dumb. I got burned in a relationship that I had with a vendor for years and purchased many games from before. He had some unfortunate circumstances come up in his life and couldn't follow through. I guess that makes me dumb, well dumb enough to continue to banter back and forth with someone like you. I'll stop short of personal attacks, but damn its hard.

#3097 4 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

Did you read back any of his postings?
He has not told anything about dp financial status. And i am dumb, or dillisional. Thats what he said...
But if you look back at his posts, you will notice he is constantly telling everybody there must be something wrong with their financial status.
That guy is just causing the same stir over and over again. And then denies he said something about it.
Let him open his own complain topic, so we can discuss the lb pin. I am sick of the same guy crying where his money is. Hey, nobody knows here!
Ps. I have no vested interest at all, just interested in a new pin. From a new company. And other topics i am discussing dont suffer from a few cry babies that assume only negative stuff without any aknowledge.

I did not call you dumb or delusional, I stated "Your delusional if you can not see and admit that. Also, if they are headed to court, that does nothing but confirm they do not have control of the dpusa funds. i can't decide if your trolling, haven't actually followed this thread, or just that dumb to not see the actual facts that are out there. I am not here spitting out conspiracy theories, I'm simply stating the facts about DP and how they are running their business." Take what you want from that.

I am not causing the same stir over and over again. DP has yet to address this problem, so I brought up this issue and since it has never been addressed I have never moved past it.

Also this thread was opened regarding refunds, so if you want to discuss TBL, open your own thread. Pretty easy for you to do.

#3107 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

For those that missed it as it was released within a few days of this shit show.. PAPA video of the game:
If you want to vent at someone and getting tired of doing it here, bitch at the two guys that posted comments to the PAPA video that they disliked using licensed songs! WTF

What??? The music makes this game awesome!

#3124 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

There has been at least some private communication, just not public announcements. They just want to have 100% everything sorted out so theres no more funny stuff going forward.
Maybe that approach is getting old, fair enough but it is what it is. I'm sure nobody wants this monkey off their back sooner than DP.

They may want this off thier back, but they are the ones that put themselves in the current situation.

#3183 4 years ago

What happens when no letter is emailed out? Not saying it will but then dp will really have some upset people.

#3284 4 years ago

Great update. Can someone from the company publicly state that the dpusa payments will 100% be applied to any purchases? It seems like that keeps getting avoided. I just would appreciate someone stating that no matter what happens with dpusa, that our money will be credited to a purchase of a machine, even if dp can not recoup the funds.

#3290 4 years ago

People here keep acting as though the communication issues the company has is okay. It's not and that's the whole point many of us including aeonblack are trying to make. Stop giving them a by on the communication. It's cheap and easy for them to do and it will give them the largest benefit. Ie see my prior post. Your okay with them not confirming that dp will stand by all payments to dpusa? Wtf

#3291 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Sorry I didn't spell it out. Its an attitude.. I don't give a shit about your problems as long as I get mine.. That's what I was getting at.

Wow. Just wow.

#3298 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Nope. Want this resolved as fast as possible. I do believe that DP does as well though.

I'm sure they do, they just don't show it. It's refreshing to see someone from the company here speaking as well as the progress they made, however why hold it all in and blow your load once every few months. Given their track record, give people info as it comes in. I think that would go a long way.

#3315 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

You felt the need to repeat yourself why? You actually think they would make the game but just like steal all the DPUSA funds? Really?

The only reason anyone would say such a crazy thing is because dp has not said that they would stand by dpusa payments even if they can not recoup those funds. Just waiting for a confirmation from them is all.

1 week later
#3405 4 years ago

I got most of my refunds, but not all. I still want the games and will give the money right back once we can get some direction as to where the status of everything is. I believe this is a huge step and I am happy they are making progress. Eagerly awaiting more info.

#3407 4 years ago
Quoted from bemmett:

I'm confused what the thought is here. Are people expecting they can request a refund of their money, get it refunded, then jump back in later and maintain their spot in line if they so choose? I would not ever think that is an option, you are either in or out. Obviously they have to announce things are "back to normal" but I never thought there would be an option for requesting money back in their hands and just assuming they get right back in line later if they decide. DP needs commitments of people that are staying in I would think? Maybe I misunderstood what the thought was here?

Its what I was told before I requested my refund. If that has changed, I'll be upset about it.

#3415 4 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

You were told you could request a refund and still hope back in?

Actually I misspoke. I just read through all the emails. I requested the refund and before I did so I asked what the process is for getting back in. Barry said he would get back to me with the info, he never did. So, that being said, I doubt the requested ones will get back in line. My bad, my memory sucks.

#3438 4 years ago

It's surprising to me that people think that those who requested refunds because the company was completely mismanaged and one of its very own owners told us to get our money back should be penalized. The concept of penalizing a customer because of the company's own debacle is obsurd. those of you who claim we didn't have faith that is complete and utter bs. I gave the company 8500 on faith and supported them, but when one of three owners does what Phil did, how do you blame anyone who wanted a refund after that? Unreal.

#3453 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinhead1982:

You certainly have changed your tune!!
Yes Phil was an owner but his conduct was totally unacceptable. Page after page you repeated the same thing, "not a way to run a company, I want a refund" sounded like a broken record. Nothing constructive, just negative towards DP.
Did you pay your Jan payment??...I did and those that believe in DP did, did those that got a refund from Phil put back in straight away? some did others didn't.
And you want back in in the same place!

Actually I said all along that if they got thier shit together and provided a refund and could show they have control of thier company that I would reapply my payments. They have shown that they gained control of their finances two months after I requested a refund and within a day I am willing to give that money back as I said I would all along. Not a change in tune, just doing what I said all along. These past two months are completely unacceptable and made Dp look like a bunch of children running a company. I could never even get Barry to confirm that the payments anyone made to dpusa would hold up. Bottom line is that anyone who put money into this company was snowballed for a while and if they are going to turn their backs on those people, well that's pretty pathetic. I was forced into keeping my money into the company until they wanted to do something about a refund, where exactly did I do anything wrong?

#3457 4 years ago
Quoted from HENSBROOKER:

By posting the tune of all the posts you posted in this thread...
Damn... some were crying about assumptions (bankruptcy and so on??) presented like facts. I think those of you who did (and asked for refunds) should get their refund and accordingly lose the spot + additions. Wanna go back?! Sure... than for full price and without the extras.
1. Who stayed in all along -> get the "Early Achievers Edition".
2. Who got unrequested refunds -> get the "Early Achievers Edition" and keep spot.
3. Who asked for refunds themselves somewhere along the road -> get your money back and see you later, alligator!
- Well, that's my 2 cents.

I actually did not post conspiracy theories, but thanks. If this is in fact how dp is going to handle thier mismanagement, they lost out on selling a few machines. No big deal, I'll buy one on the used market. There will be no freaking way they get any money from me if those that requested refunds due to one of the owners suggesting it. They mismanaged thier company, I asked for my money back or an explanation. I never got a response from Barry explaining anything prior than me randomly seeing only part of my money in my paypal account. Unbelievable.

#3462 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Perfect example. They have not answered and you keep spewing shite. Shut up and go away.

Delusional if you think that the way dp has handled the company for the past few months is acceptable. Bottom line is dp fucked up, they will lose plenty of sales over this if they are not willing to allow people to assess the situation that dp forced them into. if barry would have actually addressed the questions he was asked with a straight answer, I would have never requested a refund.

#3467 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinhead1982:

OK we get it, but clearly We don't care!! We believers in DP continue to back DP. Obviously were all clueless to how a business should be run because nothing like this has ever happend before in business...especially your business!
Are you Donald Trump or Lord Alan Sugar?

I can agree that most people don't care. I myself have stopped caring. After thinking about this whole situation, I am happy I got atleast some of my money back. I'm in a better position this week than last and if it means that I am not able to purchase the machines at the same price I originally put my deposit at I am out. It is what it is. I asked for answers to questions, never got them so I bitched I wanted my money back and now that it is coming through I need to just let it go.

#3472 4 years ago

I was requested the same info you were. Anytime you do a wire that is the standard info needed to complete a wire transfer. Nothing out of the norm there.

#3480 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Inhomearcades : youve said you got some of your money back. Care to elaborate why not all? Is it still coming or is it cause you're keeping one of the two games ordered or PayPal fees or?

I received no communication from barry so I don't know what the status is. I logged into paypal and just saw some money in there and had to figure out where it came from myself. It is not the full amount I paid into DP so I don't know what the status of anything is.

#3482 4 years ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

Legally he may not have been able to. Those clamoring about professionalism, were the biggest shit throwers when things were delayed or silenced because of the legal steps taking place. We all have feelings and wants-sadly the business/legal world is often not in lock step with them.

I disagree. You are allowed to inform your customers that something is being done while you are in negotiations. At the very least all I wanted from Barry was a simple response that the money I paid into DPUSA would be honored by him even if he did not recoup a penny of DPUSA funds. He would never say that he would, I heard that info elsewhere far too late (although greatly appreciated). Again, I am trying to let this go. I am about 65% refunded, if Barry doesn't want to keep his customers in at the same price then so be it. I could care less about my place in line, but after all of the missteps of the company for them to treat customers as though they don't care and refuse them business, its pretty poor.

#3495 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

Doesn't sound like there's much of a line to move up from where you're standing
I'm very relieved to find that the DPUSA Paypal account has clearly been un-locked!
Regarding the 'who should be let back in' debate, my own personal thinking on the whole conundrum of wanting a refund was that if I could get one, it would mean all is OK, so I wouldn't want one... and if I couldn't get one, it would mean all was f*cked, in which case I'd want one... but of course this latter scenario would render it impossible to actually get one... so with both scenarios, asking for one would be pointless... that was my main reasoning for not asking...
I can understand people panicking and wanting a refund (and asking for one), I can also understand those people wanting back in when they get a refund (my own thinking, but I just went to the next logical step and didn't ask)... What I think DP should have done to help the 'I only want out if I don't need to be out' people (like me, but a 'non-refund requesting' version) is say to people who requested a refund: We are about to process your requested refund after resolving the issues we unfortunately had with the DP USA account. Once your refund is processed you will not be allowed back in line. If you still want your refund, please confirm by reply and it will be processed. We apologise for putting you through this stressful time, and hope you decide to stay with us, but if you do decide to leave, your full refund will be processed immediately upon confirmation that this is what you really want...
I guess they didn't do that, so now we understandably have people wanting back in now the feeling of everything being screwed has gone...

That would have been perfect. If I would have gotten notice and an option, I would have stayed in.

#3541 4 years ago
Quoted from Nilroc:

This thread should be closed.
Refunds are being processed
Move on

No they haven't, but thanks for your factual info.

#3542 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Dear DP I will gladly host any intersted buyers at my home anytime.

Yea but if they change their mind and reschedule your just going to tell them to shut up and go away right?

#3543 4 years ago
Quoted from sammiesguys:

Does this mean that DP USA is being liquidated and all future payments are going through DP Pinball BV? Or are orders still being processed through Dutch Pinball USA (like the DP web site) says?
Sorry if this has been answered but I was wondering if they are maintaining a US company and warehouse location.

Who knows? Its not like DP is going to let you know any time soon. I was told that they thought paypal was going to inform me of my partial refunds. They did not nor did DP. Communication is just something that DP doesn't quite understand.

#3616 4 years ago
Quoted from karl:

Every pinball company have some delays and I am sure all those who have pre-ordered TBL is aware of that. Even Stern, the big oiled machinery that has everything set up and have all the other advantages with no early pre-order policy etc. have plenty of delays, if you order a game that is not already in distributors stock that is.
I have ordered 3 nib Stern games in my short pinball lifetime and they have all been 2-5 months delayed from the promised delivery date when I ordered them. And that is for games that was already on the assembly line at the time. (Metallica, Star Trek and AC/DC

I suggest finding a new distributor.

#3617 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I hope I'm wrong but I'm expecting a manufacturing delay. They spent nearly two months on damage control from Philgate. I'm certain they multitask-ed during this time but that's a lot of energy that could have been redirected elsewhere.
Any reasonable delay is understandable and I'll roll with it. The bad news is, it will be happy days again for those seeking DP's failure.

I agree that there will possibly be some delays, however it is much more acceptable for people to withstand production delays than financial failure. I'm fone with production taking what it takes as long as it does not turn into a jpop situation.

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