This situation is extremely unprofessional. This is a company matter not something you expose part of on the Internet to slight people against your own company. If any of you think that leaving a company that you helped create, operated as a international organization can be simply walked away from, your crazy. If he truly wanted to leave the company he should have done it in a professional manner and set up everything prior to leaving. Even if the current owners did not want to or are too lazy to, he should have set everything up for them transfer funds as needed and leave the company in a healthy state. At this point he is doing irrevocable damage which is completely unneeded, leaving himself vulinerable, and creating constrination that is uncalled for. If your an adult enough to start a company and be in charge of funds, get your act together, be responsible and when you decide you can't hack it anymore do the proper thing and leave the company in a safe and sound state. I hate it when people just throw their hands up and walk away. Phil was once in a position to handle the funds of the company, he could have left the company in a manner that did not damage his reputation and more importantly the reputation of dp.

I don't care who they have. If universal does not want to sign off on the project they won't. They will do as they see fit, not as dp sees fit.

I requested refunds for two machines via an email to Barry and Phil. I will report back the response I get from them. At this point I can not trust a company that is in disarray and would prefer to wait until the project has progressed further and these details are all worked out. There is literally no point in risking 10k at this point.

Within minutes barry got back to me and said he would process a refund. I think that says a lot and I may not change my mind to keep my games in place.

I may have sent my deposits to a different location.

Really?

Times like this make it hard not to attack fellow pinsiders.

Just received an email from Barry. Not promising. He told me he does not have access to the funds and that he sent my refund request to Phil and that he hopes Phil will process the refund soon. I had a bunch of follow up questions I sent him. Let's see if they are answered.

At no point has money been misappropriated or stolen. Where are you getting that.

I have read this whole thread, I have been here the entire time. Phil said Barry took the money but did not state that he stole it. For all we know that was his compensation or reimbursement for funds he put into the company. Phil never said he stole the money. He said that he had to help make up that money, but again we have no idea that it was stolen. Maybe you should read the thread before you comment.

Please everyone stop saying Phil left the company 6 weeks ago. You don't just leave a company you own and expect it to stop your responsibility with a lousy email. It needs to be done in a legal manner and that has yet to occur. Sorry but it is on Phil just as much as it is every other owner of the company.

No. Phil is extremely out of touch with the way the business world works if he conducts himself in the manner he has and his interpretation of how things should work is nothing short of delusional. If you read into his ranting and come away with what you think is truth, well, your just as delusional.

This we both agree on. I'll still purchase the game when it's made but at this point, I'll just hold onto my cash if Phil ever decides he wants to refund it.

My question is, if they can not access it, will they honor it toward our purchase? I am sure they will but I would like to be assured of that.

FYI for those of you who are expecting instant refunds. Visa states that it is their policy that the vendor is given 20 days to process a refund from when you request it before they will initiate any type of charge back. So it is pretty standard to wait a few weeks for a refund to be processed.

Does anyone actually take the time to update thier collection on pinside?

Good point. I actually did it a while back just to help others know where a few titles are if they wanted to try a game out. Basically if someone near me always wanted to try a title they could pm me. I really need to get around to updating it.

I've been out of this thread about 350 posts ago. Just checking in to see if anyone has gotten their requested refund. Thanks

Very disappointing...... especially given that Barry just puts it all on Phil.

obviously your not a business owner. You don't let your customers suffer at the hands of the people you decided to start a business with. You take care of your customers and get your shit together behind the scenes on your time and dime.

I currently run 3 businesses, belong to 2 LLP, and reside on 3 boards. I know how to run small to medium sized businesses, most larger than DP. I would never let my company operate the way they do, maybe that is why all of my ventures have been successful.

DP = Not so good for any of their customers up until this point. I would put my money right back into the company if they could actually show that they have control of their business by refunding the money that we have been told from day one is always refundable. They have little control over their company, that should not be the customers problem. Handle your shit DP.

Yes however, as a customer that entered into a contract with dp to purchase a game that is refundable at any point, I want my refund and I don't care which of their entities provides it. If they don't have control over dpusa that is not my problem, they should be funding refunds from other entities of their company, even if it is a loan from one of thier other dp companies to dpusa. Why exactly are we forced to wait for them to figure out thier accounting problems? Pony up the cash owed to people and stop making your company look bad. I've always said I would be back in if I could get my refund, this wait has made me think twice about it. This whole situation is very un-dude.

It is irrelevant if they are going to fold up dp usa. Either way they will need to absorb the assets and liabilities of dp usa as the parent company or continue dp usa. Basically they are on the hook no matter what they end up doing with dp usa, so in the mean time take care of your customers first. Which is never a bad idea.

I personally am not saying the sky is falling. I think this company has promise and a good shot to make one of the best pins. All I am saying is that it should not be the customers who suffer from their mismanagement. I do not see how anyone, including barry himself can say otherwise. Take funds, even if it is personal funds, and process these refunds. Its no ones fault but their own that this has been the debacle it has been. All of these would be cool and chill if in fact they could process refunds. I could care less about all the other bs of how the company is doing, who owns it, where the licensing is, etc. I was in for that from day one, I knew there would be bumps in the road, delays, changes etc, but what I did not sign up for is for them to royally mess up and put my money into a state that it could not be refunded as promised. Bottom line, DP is to blame, as stated before, when we made our payments we made them to DP per the website. DP, Barry, whoever it takes process our refunds and most of us will still be on board to support you. There is literally not one reason this can not be done other than they do not have the financial backing to process the refunds, its plain and simple folks.

What conclusions have I drawn? I simply stated that I requested a refund, Barry does nothing more than blame Phil and that is a pathetic way to run a company. Am I wrong?

Ah yes, you know all. Why not put an end to everyone's concern and share? If you can't than urge Barry to. If you can not admit there is a serious problem with the way this company is conducting itself than you are an unreasonable person and I ask that you put me on ignore because I will continue to state my concern until people are refunded based on the terms that DP promised from day one. At no point did I not hold up my end of this arrangement, all my payments were made, why are you saying it is okay for them to not hold up thier end? Because it's a great title and they are great guys? Sorry that's just not how the world works.

Agree, I am an asshole, an asshole with no answers other than finger pointing and 8500 short in the bank.

I have emailed Barry. His response was that he told Phil to refund me and that hopefully he will. I didn't pay in full, I was purchasing two games. I'll send Barry another follow up email. I guess I don't understand all the secrecy around why everyone feels so at ease all of a sudden. Why not share with everyone the information that eliminates the concerns?

I purchased the two machines at different times, so I think they have slightly different schedules or payments? I have to ask what you meant when you referred to my posts about stern and dp. I was a huge supporter of dp, still a supporter of the project, just a shame to see the business ran so poorly. It's unacceptable. As for stern, they do a lot I disagree with, i have no qualms about discussing that.

No need to apologize, but appreciate it. I usually don't try and beat a dead horse but I felt as though maybe people did not understand that I was not making any assumptions but stating the simple facts of my situation with dp. The summary of my complaint is:
Ask Barry and Phil for a refund
Barry said I will ask Phil to refund you and I hope he does
End of communication for over three weeks.
I don't care how or who, but my point has been that dp has internal issues. That's their problem not mine and they should take care of thier customer first.

Your customer is always right standpoint is not something I believe to be true. Plenty of instances where this is not the case.

Anyway, I don't take any of pinside personal, hope others don't take what I say as personal either. If we all didn't disagree this place sure would be boring.

Btw- I also think I will be refunded at some point. As long as there is a solid plan in place from dp, I will be handing my money right back to them.

Yes and no. I have been in this situation in the past, trusted people and they get lazy and nothing comes of it. I basically started my venting with one simple thought and that was that they need to figure out their problems on their time and dime, not mine. Many people liked that, others here did not. Then we discussed for the last few pages.

All in all, yes I will still be in, save the 1k, but I would like to see something change other than blaming Phil. That's all. Phil has screwed things up for dp and I do sympathize, however how much time does that buy them before they should have an answer for us.

At the end of the day, we are all here for the same reason, play and enjoy pinball and hopefully one day we can al be playing tbl. In the meantime let's argue and discuss, the only other thing I have to do is work and that's not any better.

For sure.

Most people here are getting upset about conjecture but at this point the only people to blame for that is DP. If they would actually inform thier customers of what is going on we wouldn't be hearing about these conspiracy theories. DP is long overdue for action and explanation and until that happens people are going to continue to guess as to why this whole situation has not been resolved. Bottom line is refunds have not been given, communication is lacking and for all we know it could be a long time coming.

I don't understand people's need to defend DP to the death, if an individual conducted themselves this way on this forum and not DP, people would be looking to stone them.

I am a supporter as well, although I don't come across that way most of the time. I think people find it hard to understand that you can support a company and at the same time criticize that company. Everyone here seems to be very black and white on the subject. Just like Curtis_playfield giving my statement a thumbs down. I don't get that, what I said is very honest and not bashing DP, just stating facts and yet he will thumbs down it because those facts are not pro DP. People need to understand you can support a company and question them all at the same time.

So my secretary just brought me the mail. DP USA just sent me my t-shirts. So the good news is that they do have people in the US working at this time. The question I have is, if they are paying to ship these t-shirts out and the label is from DPUSA, who paid for the postage?

I can see that, my damn fat thumb does it all the time.

Yea she actually sent me a pm to clariy. She apologized and I let her know that no apology needed. I was just using her as an example at the time for people that blindly support DP no matter what. I apologized for using her as my example. Nice of her to send me a pm though.

And the speculation continues. Who cares about the licensing issues. They have bigger concerns on their hands, people want thier money back. Until they can address that by either finding money to process those refunds or pleasing people to stay in, there's no point in working out other problems as a priority. Not saying they should sit and twiddle thier thumbs, but figure out how to take care of the giant gash the company is bleeding from and then focus on building the game and recapturing customers and gaining new ones. The longer this goes on, the more people that are going to back out and the longer new people will not be signing up. Refunds first would be the best money they can spend at this point, they will see that money back in new orders or people jumping back in because they can show they have thier finances under control. Have to spend money to get money back in.

I am so sick of all the positive response of how DP is moving forward and how production will start. Bottom line is:
Phil was out of his element.
And "where's the money lebowski?"

All anyone should give a crap about is the financial state of the company, with out cash the licenses, production, distribution will never proceed. They need money to do that, so they can either fix the problem with thier customers and send refunds, or continue to ignore that problem as they have the past month and act like nothing is wrong and operate as usual. Sorry guys but a few emails saying Phil will refund me is not at all comforting to me and it shouldn't be to those who are still in. What's 8k on a project this huge? They should be able to cut a check for 8k like its nothing.

I'm going to continue to state it 1000 more until people stop drinking the DP koolaid and ask the most import questions. DP has done a great job of continuing to snowball people. Like a magician they are directing most people's attention away from the most important state of the company. They continue to tour and show the machine, continue to take orders for the machine as well as talk to individuals about the progress they are making with the game. But when the money issue comes up its "don't say peep while I'm doing business"

Razorbak- completely agree.

Stay positive, yea I guess. If they have the funds to throw more parties, time to respond to new orders and new money as well as money from curgent owners still paying thier money in then they have time and ability to refund others.

Please explain your statement. You can't simply quote part of what I said and put a sarcastic analogy like its a counter argument and expect people to understand.

As I see it, if they process refunds they will achieve more for this project than anything else they can do at this point.

If refunds are processed:
-It will provide the illusion they have control over their finances and money management
-Confidence will be regained in their management (I have zero at this point)
-with some confidence regained there is a chance some of those refunds will be sent right back into the company (increasing their cash flow)
-New customers will not hesitate to sign up and get in the on the project (increasing their cash flow)
-Eliminate the conspiracy bs surrounding the company
-Customer confidence is the only reason this company started, now they are losing it at an incredible rate each day they let slip by.

What I would really like to know is when was the last requested refund was received as well as when was the last requested refund has not been returned. We all know the day phil went a little crazy, but that is not necessarily day zero. Day zero would be when the first requested refund was ignored. Does anyone know when this is?

This is true, but if they push this all off until the games are made, those people that wanted those refunds would rather have the game I am sure. The reality is that all of us are at the mercy of DP. They can decide to not refund people and build the game, they could decide to go bankrupt, they could decide any number of things and the reality is that there is almost nothing we can do about it. At the same time, we all knew that before we gave them our money. As much as I want to blame DP for this whole mess, they didn't put a gun to my head and force me to send them the money. I can accept that I am to blame for them having my cash.

I'll be a consumer once I recieve something.

Gotta replace that cream with Irish cream. The only way I take my Caucasian is vodka, kaluah and baileys.

AGREED

Maybe DP could do something about informing their customers. What exactly is DP doing these days?

To the death. Defend them to the death and ignore all the current issues.

40 posts since I was on last. I thought new shit had come to light. Nope, pitch black on the DP horizon.

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Okay so apparently there are still people working at DP just not communicating with people about the financial status of the company or where all US orders stand. Wtf

Agreed.

Why anyone would thumbs down your post is beyond me. I love how people continue to defend DP when it has been almost two months since your requested your refund.

I would also like to give an opportunity to those of you that believe in DP so much that you can't admit they continue to ignore their customers, haphazardly run a company, misuse funds, irresponsibly manage their deposit money, etc etc. If you would like to continue to support them, go all the way. I have two games on deposit with them. Truly show your support and buy my games out. Come on, as most of you say there is nothing to worry about here, so go ahead and send me the money to buy me out and you will have your place in line.

It will be interesting to see who steps up. I have a feeling I will hear crickets just like we do from DP themselves.

me too. Care to buy a TBL?

Have you not followed this thread and the current status of the finances of DP USA?

Please enlighten me as to where my money is. How about you enlighten everyone that paid money into DPUSA?

What are you talking about? I have not made conclusions about thier financial status other than they do not have control over thier dpusa finances as they have admitted. Barry himself has stated this. Your delusional if you can not see and admit that. Also, if they are headed to court, that does nothing but confirm they do not have control of the dpusa funds. i can't decide if your trolling, haven't actually followed this thread, or just that dumb to not see the actual facts that are out there. I am not here spitting out conspiracy theories, I'm simply stating the facts about DP and how they are running thier business.

I'm in the same boat. Barry has yet to admit that all dpusa customers will definitely get credit for thier payments. I got burned on 12k of pins last year because I was laid back and didn't push the people when things started to seem funny about the situation. Some of that is spilling over for me here for sure. What I do know is that for me, the preorder risk was fine with thier refund policy. They never expected that thier partner would bail on them, thier partner never expected to get sick nor did he expect them to bend the legalities of the license as much as they did. A lot of unexpected things have happened and still are happening with this company, at the end of the day I choose to support these guys when they showed that they had a business sense about them, that's all out the window. I understand they may want all thier Ducks in a row before they announce something, however when that takes almost two months, it is completely unacceptable to go dark for that long.

I'm not bitching. I haven't bothered DP other than a few emails and have remained civil with them as well. The only reason why I post in this thread is the few people here that continue to call people such as myself out for not knowing anything and that we should get over it. There are a few people here that just can't admit there are serious problems with the current situation at DP. Those are the people that are the worst to have to deal with in this whole situation.

I am likely in the boat of people that will stay in. I have also come to the realization that there is little any of us can do about it. It's a shame that simple communication would elevate the majority of the problems in this case.

I agree that freezing their account will not help anyone, thus why I have not initiated a claim or charge back.

AMEN! (I'm not even religious but that compelled me to say that)

haha, yea I did. I type and talk on the phone at the same time every once in a while. Your right though, ironically both words would work.

Yea I am dumb. I got burned in a relationship that I had with a vendor for years and purchased many games from before. He had some unfortunate circumstances come up in his life and couldn't follow through. I guess that makes me dumb, well dumb enough to continue to banter back and forth with someone like you. I'll stop short of personal attacks, but damn its hard.

I did not call you dumb or delusional, I stated "Your delusional if you can not see and admit that. Also, if they are headed to court, that does nothing but confirm they do not have control of the dpusa funds. i can't decide if your trolling, haven't actually followed this thread, or just that dumb to not see the actual facts that are out there. I am not here spitting out conspiracy theories, I'm simply stating the facts about DP and how they are running their business." Take what you want from that.

I am not causing the same stir over and over again. DP has yet to address this problem, so I brought up this issue and since it has never been addressed I have never moved past it.

Also this thread was opened regarding refunds, so if you want to discuss TBL, open your own thread. Pretty easy for you to do.

What??? The music makes this game awesome!

They may want this off thier back, but they are the ones that put themselves in the current situation.

What happens when no letter is emailed out? Not saying it will but then dp will really have some upset people.

Great update. Can someone from the company publicly state that the dpusa payments will 100% be applied to any purchases? It seems like that keeps getting avoided. I just would appreciate someone stating that no matter what happens with dpusa, that our money will be credited to a purchase of a machine, even if dp can not recoup the funds.

People here keep acting as though the communication issues the company has is okay. It's not and that's the whole point many of us including aeonblack are trying to make. Stop giving them a by on the communication. It's cheap and easy for them to do and it will give them the largest benefit. Ie see my prior post. Your okay with them not confirming that dp will stand by all payments to dpusa? Wtf

Wow. Just wow.

I'm sure they do, they just don't show it. It's refreshing to see someone from the company here speaking as well as the progress they made, however why hold it all in and blow your load once every few months. Given their track record, give people info as it comes in. I think that would go a long way.

The only reason anyone would say such a crazy thing is because dp has not said that they would stand by dpusa payments even if they can not recoup those funds. Just waiting for a confirmation from them is all.

I got most of my refunds, but not all. I still want the games and will give the money right back once we can get some direction as to where the status of everything is. I believe this is a huge step and I am happy they are making progress. Eagerly awaiting more info.

Its what I was told before I requested my refund. If that has changed, I'll be upset about it.

Actually I misspoke. I just read through all the emails. I requested the refund and before I did so I asked what the process is for getting back in. Barry said he would get back to me with the info, he never did. So, that being said, I doubt the requested ones will get back in line. My bad, my memory sucks.

It's surprising to me that people think that those who requested refunds because the company was completely mismanaged and one of its very own owners told us to get our money back should be penalized. The concept of penalizing a customer because of the company's own debacle is obsurd. those of you who claim we didn't have faith that is complete and utter bs. I gave the company 8500 on faith and supported them, but when one of three owners does what Phil did, how do you blame anyone who wanted a refund after that? Unreal.

Actually I said all along that if they got thier shit together and provided a refund and could show they have control of thier company that I would reapply my payments. They have shown that they gained control of their finances two months after I requested a refund and within a day I am willing to give that money back as I said I would all along. Not a change in tune, just doing what I said all along. These past two months are completely unacceptable and made Dp look like a bunch of children running a company. I could never even get Barry to confirm that the payments anyone made to dpusa would hold up. Bottom line is that anyone who put money into this company was snowballed for a while and if they are going to turn their backs on those people, well that's pretty pathetic. I was forced into keeping my money into the company until they wanted to do something about a refund, where exactly did I do anything wrong?

I actually did not post conspiracy theories, but thanks. If this is in fact how dp is going to handle thier mismanagement, they lost out on selling a few machines. No big deal, I'll buy one on the used market. There will be no freaking way they get any money from me if those that requested refunds due to one of the owners suggesting it. They mismanaged thier company, I asked for my money back or an explanation. I never got a response from Barry explaining anything prior than me randomly seeing only part of my money in my paypal account. Unbelievable.

Delusional if you think that the way dp has handled the company for the past few months is acceptable. Bottom line is dp fucked up, they will lose plenty of sales over this if they are not willing to allow people to assess the situation that dp forced them into. if barry would have actually addressed the questions he was asked with a straight answer, I would have never requested a refund.

I can agree that most people don't care. I myself have stopped caring. After thinking about this whole situation, I am happy I got atleast some of my money back. I'm in a better position this week than last and if it means that I am not able to purchase the machines at the same price I originally put my deposit at I am out. It is what it is. I asked for answers to questions, never got them so I bitched I wanted my money back and now that it is coming through I need to just let it go.

Curtis,
I was requested the same info you were. Anytime you do a wire that is the standard info needed to complete a wire transfer. Nothing out of the norm there.

I received no communication from barry so I don't know what the status is. I logged into paypal and just saw some money in there and had to figure out where it came from myself. It is not the full amount I paid into DP so I don't know what the status of anything is.

I disagree. You are allowed to inform your customers that something is being done while you are in negotiations. At the very least all I wanted from Barry was a simple response that the money I paid into DPUSA would be honored by him even if he did not recoup a penny of DPUSA funds. He would never say that he would, I heard that info elsewhere far too late (although greatly appreciated). Again, I am trying to let this go. I am about 65% refunded, if Barry doesn't want to keep his customers in at the same price then so be it. I could care less about my place in line, but after all of the missteps of the company for them to treat customers as though they don't care and refuse them business, its pretty poor.

That would have been perfect. If I would have gotten notice and an option, I would have stayed in.

No they haven't, but thanks for your factual info.

Yea but if they change their mind and reschedule your just going to tell them to shut up and go away right?

Who knows? Its not like DP is going to let you know any time soon. I was told that they thought paypal was going to inform me of my partial refunds. They did not nor did DP. Communication is just something that DP doesn't quite understand.

I suggest finding a new distributor.

I agree that there will possibly be some delays, however it is much more acceptable for people to withstand production delays than financial failure. I'm fone with production taking what it takes as long as it does not turn into a jpop situation.