(Topic ID: 112377)

DP USA Refund - Still Want the Game


5 years ago

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  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Xerico
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#95 5 years ago

As someone who works in CE manufacturing, I have to agree that the lack of communication IS unacceptable. I woke up to a refund this morning without any heads-up or communication. I've backed a few Kickstarter programs and those startups were MUCH cheaper, yet they provided much more communication than DP (Pono, Tile, etc.). A bi-weekly or even monthly email update would be greatly appreciated. We're talking close to $9,000+ after all is said and done, so it's the least that DP can do.

For those that say "chill" or "calm down" to those that showing anxiety, you need to understand that $8,500+ is a lot of money to some folks. Not everyone can afford a NIB, so I don't think someone should get flamed for feeling uneasy about this process. Thankfully, I don't have to justify the cost to my significant other, but I'm sure there are many guys out there with this issue. I imagine it's hard to justify spending on $8,500 on anything, let alone a pinball machine that has yet to ship.

DP may have better communication vs. other pinball startups, but it doesn't mean that it should be status quo or acceptable.

With that said, I'm still in. However, today would be the day to introduce the world's most kickass pinball machine. The rug would get pulled right from underneath DP.

#108 5 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Do any of you know if that's supposed to be an immediate charge back to your credit or debit card through PayPal with a refund? Only reason I asked is the card I originally used was compromised a couple weeks ago so I updated my PayPal with the new card number they sent out and my bank account isnt showing a refund processing on account details. It seems that money may be sitting in PayPal limbo because my PayPal account isnt showing $4500 in available funds.

It'll probably post in a couple of business days to your bank account. I imagine they'll trace your account and deposit to your new one.

#111 5 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

They are 8 hours + ahead of the USA. Who ever is going to make an announcement may have to find out what happened and then a way to correct it. They may have been sleeping when it happened.
I'd give them some time to sort this out.
LTG : )™

Definitely, but there is a way to leave a comment (or "heads-up") with the PayPal refund, just as Phil did with "Here's a refund. Phil."

I'm glad they refunded my deposit, as I wanted to use a different card (for points) anyways.

#128 5 years ago
Quoted from burningman:

opportunity? any one of us could bail at any time with a full refund....why would this be an "opportunity"?

It's a "trouble-free" opportunity to bail.

#131 5 years ago
Quoted from MinusWorlds:

Shits about to get real.

(Grabbing popcorn)

#137 5 years ago

FYI - They're charging international fees on the PayPal purchase due to the change in account management. Be sure to use a card that won't charge you these fees.

paypal DP.jpg

#157 5 years ago

Sorry to interrupt you Phil (a single summary or post would be great)....

FYI on the account change:

paypal DP-77.jpg
#160 5 years ago

PS - How odd is the Modern Pinball event going to be tonight?

#178 5 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

By the sound of these problems, Im guessing TBL will never make it to production if what Phil is saying is true.

If it does, it could come up super short. This has implosion written all over it.

#227 5 years ago

I need a drink AND a shower.

#233 5 years ago
Quoted from Ed209:

Oh man. I really don't want to see this fail if BTTF is next.

BTTF makes sense as it's a Universal property.

#242 5 years ago

#330 5 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Yeah this has me a little worried but I'm in for now. I still have the last payment in April left, so I've got 7k at risk here.. not great, but this is a dream theme. I realize Phil has concerns about licensing and what happens if universal gets pissed off enough to pull the license. That's real ; the rest I'm not sure belonged out on the internet. It seems Phil wants to destroy them now.. him posting an email address to somebody at universal.. that seems too far.. I can only imagine that even if everything was 100% fine before.. a bunch of crazed pinball nerds emailing this woman would now put the license in jeopardy.. so, yeah.. Phil went too far in my opinion and seems to be wanting there to be a run on the bank now.. even though i think everything he mentioned could have been worked through eventually (and I still hope it does).

I agree 100%. I thought it was pretty foul to post her email address.

#331 5 years ago
Quoted from clg:

If I were universal and knew this was happening I would just sit around quietly and then wait until they are just starting to ship before calling in the lawyers. DP would be in a horrible negotiating position and universal could make as much as possible which let's be honest is what they will want to do.

Keep in mind that TBL is a 15-year old property. Universal isn't going to walk away from royalty/licensing revenue, especially on an older property such as this one. They are definitely no stranger to the world of pinball.

#339 5 years ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

This is probably very wrong. If Universal does something that pisses off actors, directors, intellectual property holders they work with, it could cost the millions in movies not made, or lawsuits against them. The pinball licenses are likely very small dollar amounts (I read somewhere, but don't quote me, that the license cost is around $50K for a movie based game for Stern). Universal or any other media company would gladly protect themselves by leaving money on the table if they think a deal would potentially hurt them.

Universal owns the rights to the movie and merchandise. Why would they be sued?
The license may not cost much, but there's a bigger picture and method to the madness:

#343 5 years ago

We were praising them yesterday and today we're ready to hang 'em.
This could be a small hurdle or obstacle. Who knows? It's not like it's vaporware. They made it this far.

"Alex, I'll take "Optimism" for $4,000....."

#346 5 years ago
Quoted from ZenTron:

Can we preorder BTTF from DP yet?

It's a "2.0 Kit" for the Data East version. And yes, you will have to replace the factory speakers and power supply.

#373 5 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

You are a real friend.....
Real friends go sit around the table and talk about the bad air. Trying to solve the problems.

Dude. Go easy. You can't knock the man for telling his side of the story. He obviously put in a lot of time, energy, effort, and risk into this project. We don't know the full story, so try not to point fingers.

#384 5 years ago

#404 5 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

This is the mother of all pinside threads.

Quoted from toyotaboy:

Wow, this is a helluva thread with a lot of dirt.


#432 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Someone explain after reading these pages why bother preordering. The games not limited. If u got a refund hold it back when a game ships pay for it. Why risk it?

Where is the risk? You can always get a refund up until the game ships. Preorders saved $500 and got a rug and chrome upgrade in the process.

#444 5 years ago
Quoted from kbliznick:

The risk in any pre-order is that they got belly up before shipping and there is no money left for a refund. Not a perfect example, but I ordered $100+ in battery holders from Radio Shack last week and then later that day news was posted that they delisted their stock (temporarily) and I was worried that they might declare bankruptcy the next day and I might never receive them (I did).

Just because Radio Shack files for bankruptcy, doesn't mean they'll close all 4,000 stores before you get your battery holders.
Check the Fair Credit Billing Act (FCBA) and the Mail or Telephone Order Merchandise Rule.

#454 5 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Check out what happened in Austrilia with Bumper in 2013. Any time you have neither your money or your item you are exposed. The ability to get a refund is limited by the solvency of the entity that is holding your money...an entity that may have big over head like salaries...

"Hello, Discover Card? I was charged $8500 for an item I never received. Oh, there's no time limit on disputing a transaction? Awesome. Please proceed in investigating and pursuing this chargeback."

DONE. Yes, I agree that it's a risk/grey area, but PayPal would be on the hook as the "acquirer," who in turn would go after DP.

#460 5 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Neither are practically applicable to smaller entities like boutique pinball manufacturers...especially ones owned and managed by foriegnors.

I'm definitely not arguing your points TigerLaw, but this is exactly why I put my refunded deposit on a card that has zero interest until March 2016. I should be safe as long as I don't pay off the balance and carry the deposit funds until shipment, which DP is shooting for this April (fingers crossed).

Don't pay with bank funds!

#588 5 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

If you are going to kick start something how about community raise the funds 10k to use kahlua. And see what goodman wants. 10k is nothing for such a sweet license.

I feel you, but it shouldn't be on the community to fund a license. Turn the bottle or call it "Lua." It's not a deal breaker. This happens all the time in other forms of media (video games, film, TV, and music). $10K isn't that much, but will it help sell more machines? I can't answer this, but as a manufacturer, you have to look at the ROI on this type of expense. I would love to know the margins on today's pinball machines.

Thankfully, Brunswick gets it. It's free advertising. Let's hope other companies do the same. Perhaps, getting rid of the gun and marijuana leaf will help the situation.

#683 5 years ago
Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

You're playing. LCD gets wobbly for a split second. What was that? Ring ring. You reach to the side of the cabinet, and out of the box you take out an old fashioned black telephone receiver. Put the phone up to your ear but KEEP PLAYING! You hear, "To escape the Matrix, shoot the left ramp." Skill shot that, Mr. Anderson.

This WOULD be badass.

#801 5 years ago

1) If DP trekked over to NYC for a event, why didn't they take advantage and also promote BoP 2.0? I understand it's a kit, but they wasted a good opportunity.

2) I'd love to know how many TBL pins were pre-ordered/sold just from this weekend's Modern Pinball event. I get that they need to raise funds, but it seemed like a waste of time and money, especially with these issues brewing in the background.

Stop with the events and expos until you clear this mess and start communicating with your backers.

1 week later
#2287 5 years ago

I'm out-of-town so I can't verify I received the shirt, but I would've preferred it without the added tagline ("it's a whole new game!"). I was under the impression that it was just the logo on the front based on the first round of shirts that were circulated before the "chaos."

1 week later
#2742 5 years ago

I was going to make payment deposit #3 last week, but it's requiring me to also pay for deposit #4 (which technically isn't due until April). While I appreciate DP's recent efforts, I'm still not completely comfortable with dropping the full "load" for this machine. I'll let them remind me to pay it.

#2775 5 years ago
Quoted from aeonblack:

It has been a month since we got those initial (unrequested) refunds. I don't think it is unreasonable for me to be upset that this still hasn't been sorted out. Whether you are in or out at this point doesn't matter, this needs to be resolved.
DP: Get your shit together.

Meanwhile, the loonie is getting beat up by the market and expected to drop another nickel against the US dollar.

1 week later
#3008 5 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

Easy tiger, I'm sure your refund will get processed.

Unless you're personally executing his refund or delivering his machine, I would go "easy" on those voicing concern and opinion on their refund(s). Please remember that it's HIS money, not yours or mine.

FYI - The Canadian dollar vs US dollar since August:

#3011 5 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Doesn't the fact that he paid USD$ in the past and it is currently stored as USD with Phil mean he actually gets back more Canadian than he put in with a refund? Would it be in DP rights to refund him only the Canadian $ he paid in, keeping the "profit" from the currency exchange? Lots of ins and outs.. Prob why they need a CPA just to sort out the refunds.. (I doubt Phil was worrying about keeping the books straight when he was issuing refunds)
BTW: everyone should get refunds, just wondering why the Canadian dollar was tossed in there.

aeonblack is from Canada, which is why I referenced the CAD. Who knows where and how his money is being tied up at this point, but I get and understand where his anxiety is coming from.

$8,500 USD on 1/20/14 = $9,313 CAD
$8,500 USD on 1/20/15 = $10,171 CAD

The decline of the Euro should (hopefully) push DP to get this machine out ASAP.

1 week later
#3093 4 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

I am sick of the same guy crying where his money is.

It's a public forum.
It's not YOUR money.
There's more than one person trying to get their money back.

I shouldn't have to listen to a podcast to get updates on a pin that I've invested in. That's not asking a lot. I'd rather get spammed with updates (like Pono did via Kickstarter with their high-res player) vs. being forced to seek out new info that was passed along secondhand.

Step it up DP. We know you're reading....

#3131 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinhead1982:

Heard from a reliable source that New Shit news letter should be out this Friday at some point.

Finally! I'm sure everyone is tired of reading the current source of updates: rumor mill.png
aka "The Dutch Pinball Dispatch"

#3142 4 years ago

Soooo....what mods are you going to do to your TBL when it arrives?
<just killing time between now and the next scandal/update/year>

#3144 4 years ago
Quoted from anubis2night:

just curious if DP has taken any opportunity to show off one of these sample pinball machines at one of the Lebowskifest's. It would seem like a slam dunk to me...

I don't believe so, but I think it's safe to say this will be done in the future. I know they got some decent awareness with the Abiders. The Big Lebowski Facebook page posted something on the game back in October. That page has over 2M "likes" so I imagine the diehard fans are well aware of it.

#3232 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

The character inserts have lost the attempts to filter them to feel more in line with the playfield art and are now just straight up photos. They look pretty awful unfortunately, but that's obviously something where the license process tied their hands.

Agree 100%. This still bugs me, but I'll deal with it. It screams Stern in early-2000. I would love to update these character inserts with hand-drawn art like the rest of the playfield.

#3275 4 years ago

#3280 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

But no mention of time frame...

Yeah. That's really <not> legal.

#3282 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Neither is pot in most states...

I'm missing how the two relate. One is a misdemeanor and the other is a felony.

#3321 4 years ago

Poor Kermie.

1 week later
#3409 4 years ago

Am I correct?

$8500 special pre-order = chrome rails, T-shirt, rug, and Achiever's plaque
$8995 standard pre-order = chrome rails only

#3434 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

- People that were in, but are not in, must be back in by XX/YY/2015

This should be April 1st, 2015 (based on the website).

#3587 4 years ago

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