Those of you who have already rec'd a refund may wish to educate yourself on the US Bankruptcy laws regarding "preferences" and "preferential payments". If DP US goes this route in the next 90 days, it's quite possible you will all receive a polite request from the Court to return that money to be equally split among all creditors. I would not be fanning the fire at this point just because I've received a refund, because you are not out of the woods yet.

Hope it works out for all parties involved.

Not necessarily, assuming the transfer of funds was approved by the appropriate parties (i.e. the 2 out of 3 shareholder votes mentioned earlier). It's really an accounting issue - DP books an account receivable & InsertMedia books a corresponding liability. It's the accounting and keeping track of where the money comes from that's important from the perspective of good business management. If it never gets paid back, DP claims a loss and IM claims it as income.

The concepts of "fraud", "theft", etc. aren't really pertinent to this conversation since it IS their money to do with as they please (as hard as that is for those who put deposits down to accept that). Again, as long as DP appropriately approved the transfer (if the 3rd shareholder misappropriated the funds without proper authority, that's another story).

And also remember this is a privately held company. Whatever they do isn't designed to influence the share price and it doesn't result in inaccurate financial reports to shareholders/the world. So it's hard to find a scenario where use of the word "fraud" is appropriate, at least at this point in time. Tax liabilities/implications, sure. But there are perfectly legal ways for them to share funds between companies.

Depends on what the shareholders agree to. There's no obligation for them to do so, as long as they account for it properly on their taxes (and I have no knowledge of Dutch tax laws).

Realistically, DP could take 100% of the deposit money and loan/give it to anybody else for any reason they want. It only becomes a problem if they fail to deliver the product that you've paid for......

Since everybody else is tossing about theories and conjecture, I'll join in. Makes the work day go faster.

- There's no evidence out there that Dutch Pinball US (or DP USA) or anything remotely similar to that exists as a legal entity. I think it's just a d/b/a of the parent Dutch company (which is a privately held, limited liability entity with 3 partners).
- Maybe that's why it's difficult/impossible to just "dissolve" the USA entity - it doesn't exist as a standalone company. Is simply a USA marketing name to attach a paypal account to.
- One of Phil's jobs, since he has a US SSN, was to set up the US paypal account.
- As the end of the tax year approaches, Phil freaks out about the inevitable Form 1099 that he is going to be receiving in the mail with his SSN attached to it. (for you non-USA folks, that the snitch report that Paypal will send to the IRS to make sure you don't cheat on your taxes)

If the accounting systems are really messed up, I guess this would tend to freak me out also. International tax laws are messy - that's probably why they just went with opening the account with a SSN instead of a tax ID #. More shortcuts that complicate matters.

All just unfounded speculation in my head, but it did help me to kill 10 minutes at work.

Off topic, but this cracks me up. Maybe it's a cultural thing, I don't know. What CPR is suggesting is basically the *only* way any small business has been started in North America in the past 200 years (up until the recent past). It's called entrepreneurialship. No guts, no glory. You want the reward? Take the risk.

It's also the reason that 99.9% of people in the USA are "employees", rather than "business owners". Employees assume none of the risks, but expect none of the rewards.

Capital (cash, 2nd mortgage, personal financial guaranty, etc.) has always been the barrier to starting new businesses. This new model is just crazy.

Edit to acknowledge maybe DP does have skin in the game. If so, guess they are "totally irresponsible" too.

In other words, "it's out of our hands, we wish you good luck".