(Topic ID: 112377)

DP USA Refund - Still Want the Game


4 years ago

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  • 422 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Xerico
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#1009 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Just who are the guilty? DP used some money to pay for parts and travel etc... so what? It's a company they have to spend money to travel and promote the game, buy parts and stuff. So they bought parts for BoP 2.0, how's that stealing? He already stated he doesn't want any of the profits, to me that means they would have had enough money left to build the games. If this was all a scam how come BoP 2.0 customers got their kit after all the TBL money was already collected? The level of naivete on this forum is astounding. Most of you are no doubt very smart but you'd be killed in a competitive business.

not all of us have BoP 2.0 yet and even those who do have an incomplete game.

#1348 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I've been told the computers have arrived, the pre-flashed hard drives are on the way, and they'll be assembled soon...and I'm likely to have it first week of Jan. If this happens as planned, I think I'll chill out a bit.

Scott mentioned the drives will be getting imaged in the next week and a half in the BoP2.0 thread

Quoted from TheNoTrashCougar:Hey Guys,
No need to worry about the Bride kits. All parts are accounted for and the imaging of the drives for the US kits will be done during the next week and a half.
Please reach out to me if you have any questions.
Thanks guys,

#1642 4 years ago
Quoted from Cenobyte:

No, it's better NOT to play Russian Roulette AT ALL when running a company!
I agree with you on the whole pre-order thing, but these guys already invested a shitload of their own money and time before a single pre-order was taken. Don't make it look so black and white, like they're on a tropical island spending all these thousands on chicks & booze.

No they were at expo doing that.

#1856 4 years ago
Quoted from Cenobyte:

All the stuff that is on the machine is fully within the license, as I can understand.

thats clearly not true do to the pot, gun, Kahlua, time mag...

#1877 4 years ago
Quoted from LITZ:

I am sure the community will come up with replacement mods for these items. Not a deal killer IMO.

Nothing said about a deal killer, just a response to the comment everything shown has been ok'd

#2219 4 years ago
Quoted from bangerjay:

That pic is a week old ...

ive seen a few complete displays too. they are being worked on.

1 week later
#2463 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballnut:

I just want my BOP kit, man.

sad-little-boy.jpg 18 KB

this should be happening in the next few weeks. There have been a few released for testing in the USA.

#2601 4 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

I don't believe that's accurate. DP went out of their way to be sure everyone knew the games at expo we pre-alpha. I highly doubt the code at expo is anywhere near complete.

This displays actually stated it was pre alpha code.

#2719 4 years ago
Quoted from anubis2night:

I think th bst week or two could be the real turning point. Once they get this sorted and a new announcement coupled with some photos of happy BOP 2.0 owners and some refunds underway, people will be back on board full steam ahead. let's all hope those things happen

there are already a few kits released in the US, we did some testing on them

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#2740 4 years ago
Quoted from Hitch9:

There is quite a bit of "dude chill out comments" going on here, like it's ok for a company to behave like the actors in the movie, and all is going to be ok. I guess my 'dude' days are over, cause I seriously have problems dropping some serious money, on something that could go south.
More power to those that can. Too many red flags for me. Back to your regular scheduled program.

then you must never spend any money at all.

1 week later
#2816 4 years ago

Its fully reasonable that the sticker is there referencing the playfield as a whole, so it was placed right in the middle so any large pics of the playfield will show it.

#2827 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

Shouldn't it read 'under licensee approval'?

language differences

#2887 4 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

The big lesson....Pre Orders Suck. If this were a normal company funded by owners investment, all this stuff could be/would be happening behind the scenes and no one would know or care.
Different story when you've got 1000's of dollars invested in the company.
My guess is there is no way DP could fulfil all the requested refunds without obtaining external funding. So they are trying to buy time. Hopefully that's what the new accountant guy is working on.

no one here other than DP has any money invested in the company, stop acting like you are have an investment. You have a purchase request and deposit. You are a consumer, not an investor.

#2903 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

Actually, customers who have paid deposits but have not yet received delivery are classified as priority unsecured creditors. For an insolvent corporation -- one which cannot pay its financial obligations as they become due -- there is no value in equity, so the creditors have first claim on the company's assets. The fiduciary duties of directors and officers of an insolvent corporation expand to include creditors as well as equity shareholders.

Like I said, not investors. They have no standing to demand info. Unsecured creditor, priority or not, trends to get screwed. Unless your a secured creditor, chances of getting your assets back in full are low if a company goes under.

#2907 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

They have every standing to demand information from an insolvent company, and a trustee will fight for their rights every single day over the rights of your so-called "investors" (i.e., equity), who are at the absolute bottom of the totem pole. The right to information doesn't have a damn thing to do with the likelihood of recovery.

The problem with your argument is they aren't insolvent, haven't filled for bankruptcy, and are foreign held. Good luck with that if it happens.

#2931 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

I realize that this is not your area of expertise, but please stop claiming that DP's customers have "no standing to demand information" because they are "not investors". This argument of yours, which you've regurgitated from the MMr thread, doesn't work in the Dutch Pinball situation. The companies making MMr (PPS and CGC) are *not* insolvent, and the right to information in this particular situation doesn't have anything to do with your low-likelihood-of-recovery argument.
Dutch Pinball USA, Inc. is arguably insolvent, because it cannot pay its financial obligations when they become due. The angry complaints in this very thread from customers demanding that their deposits be refunded is clear evidence of that, and the only thing keeping Dutch Pinball USA, Inc. out of bankruptcy at the moment is a simple, 2-page form filed in federal bankruptcy court (Chapter 7 Involuntary Bankruptcy petition) and a $335 filing fee.
Petition: http://www.uscourts.gov/uscourts/RulesAndPolicies/rules/BK_Forms_1207/B_005_1207f.pdf
Fees: http://www.ilnb.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/fee_schedule.pdf
Venue could be established in either Illinois (principal office) or Wyoming (state of incorporation).
The principal officers listed in the Wyoming public filing are Barry Driessen (President) and Jacob Pieter Nauta (Vice President), with a publicly-listed US address of 350 S Northwest Hwy, STE 300, Park Ridge, IL 60068.
In the event of a bankruptcy filing, Dutch Pinball USA, Inc. would CLEARLY be subject to US bankruptcy court jurisdiction and to the EXACT same reporting requirements of any other company in US bankruptcy court.
Shortly after the petition is filed, the Company's officers would be required under federal law to file a comprehensive Statement of Financial Affairs ("SOFA") and a detailed Schedule of Assets and Liabilities ("Schedules").
SOFA: http://www.uscourts.gov/uscourts/RulesAndPolicies/rules/BK_Forms_Official_2010/B_007_0410.pdf
Schedules: http://www.uscourts.gov/uscourts/RulesAndPolicies/rules/BK_Forms_1207/B_006_Summary_1207f.pdf
Those standard bankruptcy filings would provide the court with detailed information about the company's finances and give the bankruptcy trustee information about recent financial transactions, such as payments to insiders and related parties, payments to trade creditors, transfers of property, and gifts to others. In some circumstances, the trustee would be entitled to take back property or cash transferred to others prior to the bankruptcy filing and distribute the proceeds for the benefit of the unsecured creditors.
Those initial filings must be signed by a corporate officer under penalty of perjury. The penalty for making a false statement is a fine of up to $500,000 or imprisonment for up to 5 years, or both. 18 U.S.C. §§ 152 and 3571.
Bottom line: The possibility of bankruptcy in a situation like this is a serious matter, and people shouldn't be flippant about it. It's very easy to get into bankruptcy (i.e., $335 filing fee and a 2-page form), but it's very difficult to get out. If Dutch Pinball's directors and officers want to continue operating without the oversight and restrictions of a US bankruptcy judge, they would be well advised to do *whatever* they can to raise enough capital to refund deposits and eliminate even the appearance of insolvency.

telling me I have no facts then declaring DP insolvent w/o seeing their books? Hello pot, have you met the kettle? If someone wants out by all means do what you have to to get out. They still don't have any legal standing to demand an update from the company on the project status. They can ask all day but if DP does not want to give it, they don't have to. If that makes people nervous then they shouldn't give someone money on a preorder basis. I am in on BoP 2.0 its a year late, shit happens. Some games still have not gotten out and what has is not complete. I can ask what the status is but they don't have to tell me. Is it good customer relations to give an update sure, but they don't have to. Everyone who put money in DP pockets did so and assumed the risk willingly.

You also seem to be assuming that the newly formed DP USA had taken over the assets and obligations of the original DP USA. They probably did, but that is not known.

1 week later
#3039 4 years ago

There was also a beta code update for bug fixes on the BoP s/w that just was released.

1 week later
#3269 4 years ago

Pf faces just look a little brighter, but that could be due to bring front lit rather than backlit. Pics are from the proto.

#3324 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

And through bop2.0 delays.. I will say wrong but consistent IMHO

not wrong at all, just not what you wanted. The last thing you want to do if there is an issue with licensing is to go and start talking about it and piss off the IP holders.

#3365 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballpete:

Driving people to your site is fine, I just don't see the need for exclusivity. On his site you have to register and I for one am not up for that. If I wanted to I could read Pinside without registering and that is great.
In marketing you want your message in front of as many potential customers as possible. Drive me to your site with great product, great service, great prices, but when your pumping out info shout it out from the mountain tops. I'm sure there are many lurkers who come here for their pinball info and it seems like a great way to pitch to a captive audience.

you registered here dumbass, whats the difference? ricks a dick who cares, you dont have to deal with him personally.

Post edited by moderator: Further name calling and personal attacks will result in a thread ban.

#3367 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballpete:

Difference is I don't have to register to read Pinside like I said. Pinside isn't collecting emails to spam people with future sales. No need for name calling.

There was a reason, I felt like you deserved it for your bad reasoning. Your issue was registering, which you choose to here, so you could have there. I've never gotten any email from PPS for marketing, has anyone?

#3370 4 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

So name calling is justified so long as you deem the persons reasoning bad? So what derogatory name shall we call you? In all seriousness, your abrasive quips and tough guy posting makes most of your valid points get negated. Lighten up man.

Yes, it's justified. It's just words. Call me whatever the hell you want, I'm not bothered by it.

#3378 4 years ago
Quoted from Euchrid:

Typical passive aggressive anonymous internet bullshit. Some people have a need to bully others, beat their wife, demean their kids, etc. They live their lives this way.
Back on topic: the NSN was good and Im hopeful the games will be produced and be awesome. I'd love for the next NSN to give us some idea of the programming ideas they have for it.

not passive aggressive at all. I'm actively willing to call out hypocrisy and stupidity.

1 week later
#3573 4 years ago
Quoted from ozno:

Last post excluding more soup nazi pix
How is it valid that I go to the back of the line???? I cancelled my refund request before they refunded me. They said we are refunding you anyway. They had my money all this time. I was one of the very first to preorder. Why should I lose anything? They kept my cash all this time and kicked me out simply because they couldn't take any criticism, which they still can't take and refuse to admit they did anything wrong or less than optimal.

You went on record with them as to wanting out. now that that is happening you say never mind, since you think they are OK. you wanted to have it both ways, I don't trust you so give me my money back, wait you have the money, then never mind. I'd kick you out too.

#3574 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

Dude, lay off the Nazi shit, OK? No matter how mad you may be at Barry, *NO ONE*... and especially a Dutchman... deserves having a swastika thrown in their face. It is highly offensive, so please just stop.

don't go getting offended for someone else.

#3622 4 years ago
Quoted from Expletive:

Not a chance in hell will this game be shipping by Q2. Promise or no promise.

That was never claimed since its been scheduled to start production in April.

#3645 4 years ago
Quoted from Expletive:

Q2 goes through June, genius.

No shit, you said by Q2, not during Q2.

#3657 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

There's a difference?

yeah in english "by Q2" would refer to on or before 3/31 assuming calendar based quarters. During Q2 would be 4/1-6/30.

#3658 4 years ago

no but you seem to be.

#3663 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

I see a Pee Wee Herman argument happening here...

but i'll keep my pants on at the movies.

#3713 4 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

No need for us Orgonians to tilt... The shit is legal here

Except is still federally illegal. Not that the feds will, or should, do anything to stop it

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