Quoted from kvan99:

Just who are the guilty? DP used some money to pay for parts and travel etc... so what? It's a company they have to spend money to travel and promote the game, buy parts and stuff. So they bought parts for BoP 2.0, how's that stealing? He already stated he doesn't want any of the profits, to me that means they would have had enough money left to build the games. If this was all a scam how come BoP 2.0 customers got their kit after all the TBL money was already collected? The level of naivete on this forum is astounding. Most of you are no doubt very smart but you'd be killed in a competitive business.

Quoted from Rarehero:

I've been told the computers have arrived, the pre-flashed hard drives are on the way, and they'll be assembled soon...and I'm likely to have it first week of Jan. If this happens as planned, I think I'll chill out a bit.

Quoted from TheNoTrashCougar:Hey Guys,
No need to worry about the Bride kits. All parts are accounted for and the imaging of the drives for the US kits will be done during the next week and a half.
Please reach out to me if you have any questions.
Thanks guys,
--Scott

Quoted from Cenobyte:

No, it's better NOT to play Russian Roulette AT ALL when running a company!
I agree with you on the whole pre-order thing, but these guys already invested a shitload of their own money and time before a single pre-order was taken. Don't make it look so black and white, like they're on a tropical island spending all these thousands on chicks & booze.

Quoted from Cenobyte:

All the stuff that is on the machine is fully within the license, as I can understand.

Quoted from LITZ:

I am sure the community will come up with replacement mods for these items. Not a deal killer IMO.

Quoted from bangerjay:

That pic is a week old ...

Quoted from pinballnut:

I just want my BOP kit, man.

sad-little-boy.jpg 18 KB

Quoted from Skins:

I don't believe that's accurate. DP went out of their way to be sure everyone knew the games at expo we pre-alpha. I highly doubt the code at expo is anywhere near complete.

Quoted from anubis2night:

I think th bst week or two could be the real turning point. Once they get this sorted and a new announcement coupled with some photos of happy BOP 2.0 owners and some refunds underway, people will be back on board full steam ahead. let's all hope those things happen

Quoted from Hitch9:

There is quite a bit of "dude chill out comments" going on here, like it's ok for a company to behave like the actors in the movie, and all is going to be ok. I guess my 'dude' days are over, cause I seriously have problems dropping some serious money, on something that could go south.
More power to those that can. Too many red flags for me. Back to your regular scheduled program.

Quoted from pinballslave:

Shouldn't it read 'under licensee approval'?

Quoted from cooked71:

The big lesson....Pre Orders Suck. If this were a normal company funded by owners investment, all this stuff could be/would be happening behind the scenes and no one would know or care.
Different story when you've got 1000's of dollars invested in the company.
My guess is there is no way DP could fulfil all the requested refunds without obtaining external funding. So they are trying to buy time. Hopefully that's what the new accountant guy is working on.

Quoted from Razorbak86:

Actually, customers who have paid deposits but have not yet received delivery are classified as priority unsecured creditors. For an insolvent corporation -- one which cannot pay its financial obligations as they become due -- there is no value in equity, so the creditors have first claim on the company's assets. The fiduciary duties of directors and officers of an insolvent corporation expand to include creditors as well as equity shareholders.

Quoted from Razorbak86:

They have every standing to demand information from an insolvent company, and a trustee will fight for their rights every single day over the rights of your so-called "investors" (i.e., equity), who are at the absolute bottom of the totem pole. The right to information doesn't have a damn thing to do with the likelihood of recovery.

Quoted from Razorbak86:

I realize that this is not your area of expertise, but please stop claiming that DP's customers have "no standing to demand information" because they are "not investors". This argument of yours, which you've regurgitated from the MMr thread, doesn't work in the Dutch Pinball situation. The companies making MMr (PPS and CGC) are *not* insolvent, and the right to information in this particular situation doesn't have anything to do with your low-likelihood-of-recovery argument.
Dutch Pinball USA, Inc. is arguably insolvent, because it cannot pay its financial obligations when they become due. The angry complaints in this very thread from customers demanding that their deposits be refunded is clear evidence of that, and the only thing keeping Dutch Pinball USA, Inc. out of bankruptcy at the moment is a simple, 2-page form filed in federal bankruptcy court (Chapter 7 Involuntary Bankruptcy petition) and a $335 filing fee.
Petition: http://www.uscourts.gov/uscourts/RulesAndPolicies/rules/BK_Forms_1207/B_005_1207f.pdf
Fees: http://www.ilnb.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/fee_schedule.pdf
Venue could be established in either Illinois (principal office) or Wyoming (state of incorporation).
https://wyobiz.wy.gov/Business/FilingDetails.aspx?eFNum=141190084199124060157201028180106126092020171249
The principal officers listed in the Wyoming public filing are Barry Driessen (President) and Jacob Pieter Nauta (Vice President), with a publicly-listed US address of 350 S Northwest Hwy, STE 300, Park Ridge, IL 60068.
In the event of a bankruptcy filing, Dutch Pinball USA, Inc. would CLEARLY be subject to US bankruptcy court jurisdiction and to the EXACT same reporting requirements of any other company in US bankruptcy court.
Shortly after the petition is filed, the Company's officers would be required under federal law to file a comprehensive Statement of Financial Affairs ("SOFA") and a detailed Schedule of Assets and Liabilities ("Schedules").
SOFA: http://www.uscourts.gov/uscourts/RulesAndPolicies/rules/BK_Forms_Official_2010/B_007_0410.pdf
Schedules: http://www.uscourts.gov/uscourts/RulesAndPolicies/rules/BK_Forms_1207/B_006_Summary_1207f.pdf
Those standard bankruptcy filings would provide the court with detailed information about the company's finances and give the bankruptcy trustee information about recent financial transactions, such as payments to insiders and related parties, payments to trade creditors, transfers of property, and gifts to others. In some circumstances, the trustee would be entitled to take back property or cash transferred to others prior to the bankruptcy filing and distribute the proceeds for the benefit of the unsecured creditors.
Those initial filings must be signed by a corporate officer under penalty of perjury. The penalty for making a false statement is a fine of up to $500,000 or imprisonment for up to 5 years, or both. 18 U.S.C. §§ 152 and 3571.
Bottom line: The possibility of bankruptcy in a situation like this is a serious matter, and people shouldn't be flippant about it. It's very easy to get into bankruptcy (i.e., $335 filing fee and a 2-page form), but it's very difficult to get out. If Dutch Pinball's directors and officers want to continue operating without the oversight and restrictions of a US bankruptcy judge, they would be well advised to do *whatever* they can to raise enough capital to refund deposits and eliminate even the appearance of insolvency.

Quoted from sd_tom:

And through bop2.0 delays.. I will say wrong but consistent IMHO

Quoted from pinballpete:

Driving people to your site is fine, I just don't see the need for exclusivity. On his site you have to register and I for one am not up for that. If I wanted to I could read Pinside without registering and that is great.
In marketing you want your message in front of as many potential customers as possible. Drive me to your site with great product, great service, great prices, but when your pumping out info shout it out from the mountain tops. I'm sure there are many lurkers who come here for their pinball info and it seems like a great way to pitch to a captive audience.

Quoted from pinballpete:

Difference is I don't have to register to read Pinside like I said. Pinside isn't collecting emails to spam people with future sales. No need for name calling.

Quoted from Skins:

So name calling is justified so long as you deem the persons reasoning bad? So what derogatory name shall we call you? In all seriousness, your abrasive quips and tough guy posting makes most of your valid points get negated. Lighten up man.

Quoted from Euchrid:

Typical passive aggressive anonymous internet bullshit. Some people have a need to bully others, beat their wife, demean their kids, etc. They live their lives this way.
Back on topic: the NSN was good and Im hopeful the games will be produced and be awesome. I'd love for the next NSN to give us some idea of the programming ideas they have for it.

Quoted from ozno:

Last post excluding more soup nazi pix
How is it valid that I go to the back of the line???? I cancelled my refund request before they refunded me. They said we are refunding you anyway. They had my money all this time. I was one of the very first to preorder. Why should I lose anything? They kept my cash all this time and kicked me out simply because they couldn't take any criticism, which they still can't take and refuse to admit they did anything wrong or less than optimal.

Quoted from Razorbak86:

Dude, lay off the Nazi shit, OK? No matter how mad you may be at Barry, *NO ONE*... and especially a Dutchman... deserves having a swastika thrown in their face. It is highly offensive, so please just stop.

Quoted from Expletive:

Not a chance in hell will this game be shipping by Q2. Promise or no promise.

Quoted from Expletive:

Q2 goes through June, genius.

Quoted from RobT:

There's a difference?

Quoted from Expletive:Deleted post

Quoted from spfxted:

I see a Pee Wee Herman argument happening here...

Quoted from Concretehardt:

No need for us Orgonians to tilt... The shit is legal here