Phil's story smells true. I've been in on TBL since day 1, so this sucks. But how can anyone have confidence in DP after this? I want them to succeed, but I'm guessing I'll lose what I've put in. Death of pre-order might truly have arrived. Sorry guys--no one hates it more than I do.

This is only true if they hold the deposits until shipment. But why take deposits at all in that case? They're spending at least part of the deposit cash to bootstrap the company. So if they fail to get to shipment, there's potentially no money left to refund. So it's all risk.

Let's accept that Phil, Barry and Jaap are all talented guys with the best intentions. There are no bad guys here, just partners that have fallen out due to differing business philosophies. Happens all the time.

Licensing is a big deal, but it's fixable. The big news is that the funds have not been carefully managed. Phil's situation proves that. It seems unlikely they have the resources left to build what they've promised, especially with the loss of faith this event has created. They need to show serious leadership now to recover the situation, but that's precisely the skill they've demonstrated weakness in.

BoP 2.0 and TBL still have momentum. If they're short on resources, I hope they're smart enough to seek out a bigger partner.

I'm a VIP. I've been following this thread since the beginning. My take:

Phil is facing mortality. He's dealing with serious health issues and in pain. He's overwhelmed. His business partners are taking risks he can't tolerate, and he wants out badly. They resist cooperating because they want to focus on building games, and Phil is still a business partner (but not an employee). They hope they can get him to accept this role because he's the simplest way to deal with U.S. distribution. Things drag on, taxes loom, Phil is facing more treatment--he's losing it. Finally, all his fears and anger spill out on Pinside.

Mistakes have been made. There's still hope this can get sorted out. I don't think there are any bad guys--just people dealing with real human problems. Barry is correct--none of this should have been handled in public. But Phil is also correct--they're asking too much of him right now. Let's step back and breathe for a while.

I spent 2 years living in various cities in the Netherlands...Apeldoorn, Haarlem, Gouda, Zeist, Utrecht. I love the Dutch. I even speak the language, badly. It's a big reason I supported DP in the beginning.

I say this with love: You Dutch guys talking about how business should be done are generally hurting the cause, at least for U.S. buyers. Over here business is all about taking big risks. If we start thinking that Dutch Pinball isn't risking it all for their product we're going to get (more) spooked about staying in. We need to believe they could end up on government welfare if they don't succeed. That's pretty much how it really works here.

I agree with you: Barry made a bad bet and lost. In defense of Phil, dealing with serious health problems and having your business partners leave you to fend for yourself will cause a breakdown in business protocol--I don't care who you are. This is primarily about Barry's poor handling of Phil's desire to leave.

Is anyone else nonplussed that DP's most-recent email laid all the blame for this on Phil?

I was hoping for more leadership along the lines of "We screwed up. We're sorry. We're going to make it right."

Instead they said "Phil screwed us. We're going to make it right, if he cooperates."

Oh, man, now the Dutch dudes are mad at me? I'm on your side!

The comment about dyslexia doesn't make sense. But you are correct: I paraphrased. I stand by my interpretation of the email.

I've paid for BoP 2.0 and every TBL deposit to-date. I wasn't interested in a refund, but if Dutch Pinball just wants to blame Phil and move on then I'm losing faith.

Here's DP's email from this morning:

Dear VIPs,

We would like to inform you about the financial situation of Dutch Pinball USA, Inc.
Phil refunded some of you and tried to create panic on Pinside. For some he succeeded and we received demands for a refund. Others are fully confident in us (thank you very much!) and just want a great game.

Philip is 1/3 owner of Dutch Pinball USA, Inc. (1/3 is owned by Jaap and 1/3 is owned by Barry). Philip is the administrator of the accounts of Dutch Pinball USA, Inc. On December 2nd he blocked our accounts and we don’t have access anymore. That’s why we can only forward the demands for a refund to Phil (which is what we did). The refunds can only be done from the original destination of the transaction.

If you don’t feel comfortable with us, please ask for a refund. We will forward them to Phil.

If you want to keep supporting us, please stay. You won’t be sorry and we will get you a great game!

We are really sorry for this inconvenience.

Team Dutch Pinball

To clarify: I don't have a problem with the facts as they stand. I just need DP to stand up and say "We're responsible. We let this get out of hand. We're sorry. It gets better from here."

Naming Phil as the whole problem doesn't do it for me. Maybe it is mostly Phil's fault, but it doesn't matter now. They need to accept full ownership of the problem if they want to build confidence.

I did. Nate is a great podcaster, and Roger is our patron saint. I don't think either of them are customers of Dutch Pinball. And I suspect both would agree that assigning blame is not the best course of action right now.

This morning's email from DP:

"Phil refunded some of you and tried to create panic on Pinside. For some he succeeded and we received demands for a refund."

I dislike this response because it's ugly. It denies that Phil had any legitimate basis for his actions or that they have made any mistakes. It forces their customers to choose sides. That's not smart.

It demonstrates--yet again--that DP has limited experience with company leadership. I know they're brilliant guys, but there's more to running a company than making neat stuff.

_{Post edited by brundaged: corrected spelling}

This makes my point: We shouldn't have to wonder about this. Barry just needs to say "On behalf of Team Dutch Pinball, I am making this right". He needs to convey he's doing whatever it takes. Fly to Switzerland and visit Phil in the hospital if you have to. Apologize. Clear the bad blood. Pay Phil off if you have to. Just get everyone on board to clean up the mess. And leave all of us out of it. We just need to know it's going to get done.

Uncertainty about what will happen next is toxic to confidence.

Exactly. And meanwhile DP should say "we are handling it", which is not what they communicated this morning.

I'm burned out on this thread too. I've soldiered on because I'm passionate about Dutch Pinball. But it's time to quit. My parting call to Barry and Jaap, whom I feel for:

Jaap, I've buried my mother too. I'm sick that this happened to you now.

Friends, it's a rookie PR mistake in this situation to validate uncertainty. I've said what needs to be said in earlier posts. The future is in your hands.

When was the charge dated? I'd consider this, but the payments are spread out over a year and the first one was a direct bank wire to their account in the Netherlands.

For the record, I have not requested a refund yet. But I'm tempted.

Today's update isn't terrible. It's what they should have said instead of the last update. But if you're already worried about their financial stability, it makes them look desperate. So:

If you were already confident about DP: The update is great.

If you believe in them and want the machine made, but are worried they might collapse from a liquidity crisis: The update falls short, and maybe stokes the flames a little.

To be fair to DP, I doubt they're truly out of money right now. But it is starting to look like they will be if they have to process all the refunds or if people stop sending payments. If so, delaying that discussion makes sense--for them.

You touched on the one thing that rankled me: There seems to be a calculated message that if you're scared about your investment, you're not an "Achiever" and they won't do anything to help you. Yet being concerned is completely justified at this point. Just empathizing with those that are worried would go a long way towards restoring their confidence. Treating them like losers does the opposite.

Guys, please help me: It seems like the consensus on DP is they're pulling it together. I agree they've made positive steps lately:

-BoP 2.0 shipped
-Licensing finalized
-Accountant hired
-Some (all?) pending refunds processed

Definitely great forward momentum. But how does all this add up to financial stability? I could have missed something--I'm not following this closely anymore, but that's my primary concern before I send them the final 2 payments on TBL.