(Topic ID: 112377)

DP USA Refund - Still Want the Game

By JDinNOVA

9 years ago


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  • Latest reply 9 years ago by Xerico
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#1377 9 years ago

Going public was obviously the only way to get results for Phil. Only a lawyer would think it was a better idea to hire somebody who's paid exorbitant sums by the hour to settle a simple matter like removing somebody from a company.

28
#1392 9 years ago
Quoted from RTS:

Unless he's completely ignorant, it's obvious to see how his refund debacle would cause a problem, rather than solve one

Quoted from edmorex:

Right now it feels like my deposits are being held hostage

He had every right to refund the money he was responsible for if he couldn't guarantee its security. People who he sent refunds should be thankful.

He also knew that starting the refund process would force them to address the issues. They kept him in charge of DP US, he told them what he was going to do, he carried it through. Had they managed their business, the refunds wouldn't have happened.

In Phil's mind he was protecting himself, his family and the customers. He did it at great personal cost in a time when he's fighting cancer. Just being a decent human being would be to allow him to walk away so he can focus on his health and his family. You think your deposit is being held hostage? Phil is a human being, and he and his family (in the event of his death) were being held hostage by 2 partners with controlling interest. Not to mention he is walking away from $100k. So I'd encourage a bit of empathy here.

#1406 9 years ago
Quoted from RTS:

He wanted out, and considered his money lost. His actions exacerbated the risk to all the preorders.

He wanted out, and if the other 2 owners didn't agree that the company was in trouble, they would have been happy to take his 33% at no cost to themselves. Instead they tried to keep him on the hook for his share against his will. That alone should make the customers with preorders nervous.

You may not like his methods, but again, he got the cold shoulder until he went public. Regarding the lawyer, maybe he could afford one but can't afford the years of negotiating it would take to settle it. Keep in mind he's on Chemo and their lawyer would just try to stall, costing everybody big $.

#1500 9 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Here's a theory:

Assuming no TBL get built in 2014 / no parts or labor, wouldn't the money collected this year be completely taxable as there's no losses incurred yet against it?

As an example, let's say 1 million collected to build something a company will make a 20% margin on. That's 800k in parts, 200k profit. A company (or employees taking the profit as salary) would pay tax on the 200k. At 30%, say 60k tax liability.

But without operating expenses perhaps they would be facing taxes on total revenue? So 300k taxes instead of 60k? That's a pretty big hit!

Please chime in as I am no tax expert, but I've always heard it's a bad idea to do Kickstarters near end of year for this reason.

Collecting deposits on pins is not revenue, you receive cash and it goes to a liability account (i.o.u 1 pinball machine). When you ship the product to the customer, you then debit that liability account and credit revenue on the date that the product ships.

Buying materials to create pinball machines is also not an expense until the pinball machine is actually manufactured (the parts inventory is an asset, once you build the pin it is expensed by debiting cost of goods sold on the date the materials are put into a pinball machine).

So until the pins are being produced on the line and shipped to pre-order customers, you are just shifting assets around and therefore there are no net revenues to tax. DP's income statement right now would just be a bunch of overhead, promotion and travel expenses with no realized revenue.

#1503 9 years ago

This being the case, I think the delinquency notice must just be for failing to file the return, I can't imagine they would have any tax owing (certainly not so much they can't afford it). It would be so dumb for a corporation who deals almost exclusively in pre-orders to be on a cash basis that I can't possibly imagine it happening.

#1513 9 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

the rugs should be limited to people who stick this out... ( or get back in), surplus rugs should be destroyed

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#1666 9 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Please explain to me how Phil's actions here on Pinside will have slowed the project down "so much worse" than if he hadn't posted?

I agree, Phil probably sped things up. Bringing the problems with the license etc. to light for all to see will force DP to get their ducks in a row vis-a-vis the license and Universal. Bringing the financial mismanagement to light will force them to get their accounting in order and make the investors more vigilant. If this project was going to get straightened out, Phil gave it the kick in the ass it needed whether he intended to or not.

1 month later
#3162 9 years ago
Quoted from Nilroc:

One more sleep and we get some info from Barry.

"Building pinball machines is hard"

"We're working on it"

You're welcome :p

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