Last NSNL was pretty solid or am I wrong?

It seems pretty unlikely that they'd kick you out of your preorder slot without a "final warning" of some kind, so why not wait until they make an announcement about that (or contact you personally) before putting your money back in?

I'm confused what the thought is here. Are people expecting they can request a refund of their money, get it refunded, then jump back in later and maintain their spot in line if they so choose? I would not ever think that is an option, you are either in or out. Obviously they have to announce things are "back to normal" but I never thought there would be an option for requesting money back in their hands and just assuming they get right back in line later if they decide. DP needs commitments of people that are staying in I would think? Maybe I misunderstood what the thought was here?

Yeah I wasn't referring to people that requested and received refunds (as far as I can tell, that's a pretty small pool at the moment, though hopefully growing as more refunds are sent out). I meant people that received unrequested refunds from Phil but did not immediately pay their money back in, which is how I interpreted Troutfarm's post. My hunch is they would give people in that category a last chance to buy back in and maintain their spot/bonuses (in order to get as many of those folks back on board as possible). But it is just a hunch ...

I got most of my refunds, but not all. I still want the games and will give the money right back once we can get some direction as to where the status of everything is. I believe this is a huge step and I am happy they are making progress. Eagerly awaiting more info.

I was also told no auto refund guys would lose their spot without a final warning to make payment.

Its what I was told before I requested my refund. If that has changed, I'll be upset about it.

It took 69 pages ( ;-P ) but glad to hear that people are greeting their refunds now. Me... Still in and excited for the game

Am I correct?

$8500 special pre-order = chrome rails, T-shirt, rug, and Achiever's plaque
$8995 standard pre-order = chrome rails only

No chrome on Standard Pre orders.

Requested refunds better not get their place back. Unrequested makes sense. Not their choice.

You were told you could request a refund and still hope back in?

No way!

I'm sure they will clarify their position on all the Grey areas of pre-ordership that the auto refunds caused here after they get the "I want a refund now" crowd taken care of.

The only thing they have committed to, and its a very small thing is the little achievers:

Special "Achiever Edition"
For you VIPs who stayed with us* we have a special surprise. You will receive your machine with a special and numbered "Achiever Edition" plaque including a 'Certificate of Authenticity' to thank you for your continuous support.* We know some of you have had an unrequested refund. If you have received an unrequested refund, but still want to own this special "Achiever Edition", please go in your payment status page and click on 'retry' to make the payments again to our new account.

So left open is what about the other pre order items (rug, chrome). I'd be happy with the people that are still holding the money / didn't reapply / didn't pay Jan : they announce a final call for payment to get back to where you should be, you lost place in line (so after all the little achievers), but you keep chrome and rug if you pay up by that date.. And we all move fwd.

Actually I misspoke. I just read through all the emails. I requested the refund and before I did so I asked what the process is for getting back in. Barry said he would get back to me with the info, he never did. So, that being said, I doubt the requested ones will get back in line. My bad, my memory sucks.

I got an involuntary refund.. Just to be clear.

Glad to see this getting sorted out. Now people can focus on the important stuff, like code

Thanks for clarifying I was just curious.

For the record I hope DP gives you a window to hop back in.
Should be a good next newsletter!

@Troutfarm
I heard a few customer that are in your same boat and were told you can keep your order.

Would you as a business owner reject a check for 8500 to keep your place in line now or in a couple of months? Tough choice for them but considering what has happened who knows? I'd be happy to get the same deal and move to the back of the line myself, closer to the ship date of course!

I just hope Barry recognizes the true Achievers.

beacause there was a major mishap, followed by zero assurances of financial stability and assurances that the U.S. money was safe, no one should be penalized for requesting a refund. Now that money is being refunded, DP should give customers a couple days to redeposit and not lose their place. I'm sure they will. That would be really bad if they take the position that customers should have had more faith. Fact is they have had our money all this time.

plus 1 to that!

Well I hope DP rewards those that stayed in and paid deposits in time by not letting requested refunds back in line.
Honor the price maybe but that's it.
Either way just happy to be moving forward . I went to NY hoping my expo experience was wrong but seeing and playing the game a second time confirmed it will be my number one title for a very long time.

I don't know about this. I phoned Barry, did my own homework, and made sure that if I took "the big risk" by keeping my hard earned dollars in, there by giving the company the best possibility of weathering the storm, would I move up in position? He said I would. I would think all those that did nothing but demand their money back and got it, should move to the back of the line. My opinion for what its worth. We were all in the exact same position.

i am one of the unrequested refunded people. i would consider getting back in provided i get the same deal that i signed up for, meaning i get the rug, chrome and original price. i have no problem going to the back of the line allowing the strong hands to get theirs first.

And that is fine with me as a nonrefunded, still in,paid Jan on time pre-orderer (a NRSIPOT if you will )

Razorback you disagree ? Are you in?

Yes, I disagree, because I think you "achievers" or "strong hands" are being short-sighted by trying to divide the buyers into different groups.

This company still needs financing, and now that management have lost working capital through requested (or unrequested) refunds, they may desperately need those funds to come back into the fold to fund production so the games can get made for EVERYONE. If management is smart, they will throw out the welcome mat to entice those "non-achievers" or "weak hands" to return back home.

Bottom line: You "achievers" don't want to give those former buyers easy reasons to stay away.

JMHO, but speaking from experience. And no, I'm not "in". I'm just spectating, but I don't need to be "in" to voice an opinion.

FWIW, I would love to own TBL someday -- it's on my wish list -- but if/when I do, it will be purchased HUO second-hand. Based on what I've seen so far, I would never pre-order from this company, but I would also never criticize those who choose otherwise.

I wouldn't mind buying a used one that was routed if it costs way less than HUO. All of my used machines were routed. Heavily, I might add.

I have no horse in this race but it's not like those people that did request refunds got them yet. 10 weeks is a long enough space of time that it would seem like a nice gesture to allow them back (though maybe give them a 10 day grace period)

At any rate, it's not for us to decide. I'm just happy to see them progressing towards production. Hopefully they will have another title in design phase as well

Seems like people are generally ok with the following. Agree, it's not up to us to decide but maybe if we were mostly in consensus they would just roll with it:

Ask-For Refunders:
- Get your refund

Auto-Refunders who haven't bought back in
- Some date here in the near future where you must be back in, paid up per whatever schedule you were on
- Keep Chrome
- Keep Rug
- No Achiever edition (Which is literally a small plaque and a certificate.. big whoop)
- Achiever Additions are ahead of you / lost spot a bit

Ask-For Refunders, who still want game
- Personally I think they could handle it the same as the Auto-Refunders? Maybe some want to be a little harsher than that.. but i don't feel that way really.
- It would be better for everyone if this group (maybe nobody ?) just paid up vs going through the whole refund just to put the money back.

So process could go something like
- People in, are In
- People that were in, but are not in, must be back In by XX/YY/2015
- If you want to reconfirm refund is really want you want, send a fresh request and they'll be handled ASAP.
- After XX/YY/2015 passes, anyone not paid up is out, refund generated

I'm happy with my refund and will go to the back of the line in all fairness.

Hopefully this gets moving soon, unlimited production, I can wait, lord knows I've done it before.

Finally a stand up guy with a pair of balls!!

This should be April 1st, 2015 (based on the website).

That's final payment.. I mean catch up payment. People may need to be back in before that so they can get a sense of what the initial production run looks like.

I say let DP decide what's best for them and their business. I wouldn't complain if my spot in line advanced however......

They did get their refunds...

It's surprising to me that people think that those who requested refunds because the company was completely mismanaged and one of its very own owners told us to get our money back should be penalized. The concept of penalizing a customer because of the company's own debacle is obsurd. those of you who claim we didn't have faith that is complete and utter bs. I gave the company 8500 on faith and supported them, but when one of three owners does what Phil did, how do you blame anyone who wanted a refund after that? Unreal.

I requested a refund because DP did not disclose any financial info and I wanted to get my $5500 back before they went under. Now that they have the funds to refund customers, I no longer want the refund. I want to continue supporting the release of TBL, as I have been doing since day one. If I lose my place in line, I'll probably pass on the machine for now and maybe pick one up later. I am certain that DP will do the right thing here. After all the shitstorming, they don't need any ill will.

Hmmm.. BOP 2.0 delivered, Roger Sharp got game approved, refunds being processed, I wonder what the critics bemoan next.

I want my cake.
And eat it too.

Yep, nice to see the Dutch back on track. The fact that they have come through such a major crisis certainly bodes well for the future of the company.

What about Don aka Burningman getting hired on?

You certainly have changed your tune!!
Yes Phil was an owner but his conduct was totally unacceptable. Page after page you repeated the same thing, "not a way to run a company, I want a refund" sounded like a broken record. Nothing constructive, just negative towards DP.

Did you pay your Jan payment??...I did and those that believe in DP did, did those that got a refund from Phil put back in straight away? some did others didn't.

And you want back in in the same place!
Astounding!

True believers that never pulled out should get a free set of Geerts balls!

image.jpg

I couldn´t have said it any better

Thank you pinhead! Dp will do what it has to but God!!,what a dxxx after all that screaming and moaning to turn around and ask for all to be the same as those of us that made payments on time and chose to support vs bash this whole time.

I think the thought of what is being discussed here is getting a little skewed. There is this "rift/difference" being created between those that requested refunds and those that "stayed in". We all were in the exact same boat, none of us had 100% promise of a game and none of us had our money in our hands. If the company was going under and the machine was never getting built I think we all wanted our money back in the end. There are not overachievers I believe that were ok with DP just keeping their money as they sailed off in the sunset in Bankruptcy.

We all wanted our money back if the game wasn't moving forward, the difference was created in that everyone that has been publicly screaming about wanting their money back now feels they can push DP to refunding it when they are now showing very positive signs that things are indeed ok and being worked out. Right or wrong, people that are now demanding refunds in my opinion don't get to just wait and hop back in line. They need to clarify now if they are in or they are out and I think DP needs to announce that everything is ok, moving forward as planned, you have one week to either stay in or get your money back and move on. If they want back in later, great that is always an option and I feel they should at least get a longer time frame once they are rolling off the line to buy back in at the same lower pre-order price as they did make the initial commitment but other than that I don't think they get their place in line or any of these extra bonuses they may offer for people that stayed in and didn't demand a refund. People that were forced refunds I think is different they need to commit back in now/soon once DP makes new announcements or same deal as I mention above. I am a day one/hour one order so I am not saying this to move up in line either.

To be honest I kind of want to maybe move back a little in line(think WOZ early production issues) to assure there are no production issues that are caught that have to be fixed later. But oh how I want that game sitting in my basement, still SO excited for this one! Hope things smooth out and the focus can be turned to them making the code amazing and making it as good as it can be!

After 9 to 10'weeks. but it's good to hear that they got their refunds now (so far we've heard two people say they got refunds, not sure if everyone's refunds have gone through yet)

The smart move would be an attempt to resell those customers, why leave any potential sales out of the mix (though chances are most people that passed will be back in once the first machines start to arrive at customers homes)

But hopefully this puts the refund discussion to bed and moves it to talk of prodution, estimated delivery dates, coding ect ect

Those who's money was not refunded but did not put money in on the Dec/Jan deadline could have contributed to the colaspe of DP.

Pre-ordering is a risk, people who got a refund and did not put back in should not be allowed to rejoin in their spot with the "perks" because they didn't take the risk.

People who slammed DP with threats of law suits and made comments about a "poorly managed" company WITHOUT knowing all the facts from both sides. Should also be put back, or those that stuck with DP without question should be put forward. Which ever.

I'm not saying this so I get my TBL quicker, it's the principle of the matter to me. I wait until I have the facts to make an informed decision

I know DP did not communicate publicly like Phils outcry, but if you emailed Barry he would reply to individuals. I think that this was the more professional, communicating when FACTS are availabile.