(Topic ID: 112377)

DP USA Refund - Still Want the Game


By JDinNOVA

4 years ago



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#2951 4 years ago

Thought the same .^^^

#2952 4 years ago
Quoted from Nilroc:

I know from emails from Barry that they are still on schedule to start production April 1st.

I really, really hope that is true. However, these words also came directly from DP: "All deposits are fully refundable until your machine goes into production". Until that gets sorted out they are liars and their word cannot be trusted. Sorry if that sounds blunt, but I can't see any other way to look at it. Also, they should shout that Apr 1st date from the rooftops. Slap that in a newsletter so it means something. Why keep it in private conversations unless it might not happen?

I'm still considering getting back in, but no way until those refunds are sorted out. Saw the 100+ recent new posts and thought maybe something happened. Nope! Well, here is another uninformed post to throw in the pile.

#2953 4 years ago
Quoted from Nilroc:

I know from emails from Barry that they are still on schedule to start production April 1st.

Maybe DP could do something about informing their customers. What exactly is DP doing these days?

#2954 4 years ago
Quoted from Jakenjoi:

Seriously, is it possible they're not responding because they're trying to sprint to the finish line and get some games moving? Once they sell some actual tangible machines then can say, "Alright, who wants a refund now?" (Because they will have generated some revenue from the sales by then).

I'm not sure they'll generate revenue by making the games and giving them to people who have already paid, but it sure will make people wonder if they really want a refund once they hear of people in line actually getting what they put the pre-order money up for... I don't know about other people who pre-ordered, but personally I did it to get the pinball, not to get my money back...

#2955 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

here's a question to all you knowledgeable folk out there: Does anyone know what the legal rights are of people sending pre-order money to DP and the legal resposibilities of DP? Did these people (myself included) agree to some sort of terms and conditions when we paid the cash?
I understand, for example, that DP promised to give refunds if the refund request was made before they go into full production, but I don't believe that it was stated anywhere when that refund would be granted (maybe I'm wrong). If it's the case that DP have a legal obligation to issue refunds, but not a legal obligation to do so at a specific time, then maybe their legal requirement is to issue refunds 'at their convenience'. If this is the case, then I can imagine that the plan could be to record the refund requests, so that they know which people they need to refund, then hold back on giving those refunds until that person's game is made... they could then ask that person if they still want the refund, or if they want the game instead... if the person stays with their request for a refund, then they'd offer that game to the next in line with the same option. Clearly some people would still want the game, so they continue like this 'till they have enough cash to issue refunds to those that have refused the game...
My question is: Is it in their legal right to proceed like this if they did not state WHEN the requested refund would be made?
Clearly there are a lot of people posting here that know a lot more about this side of things than a nail bender like me... so I'd really appreciate those that know the answer to my question to share their knowledge... The question again is: Is it within DPs legal right to proceed as I described?

I can't speak to the legality of this tactic, but I am fairly sure it's safe to say that holding half paid customers' money hostage is a terrible strategy for getting them to pay the full amount later. I don't see how they make it to April without issuing those requested refunds. Just try telling an already pissed off community that your anytime refund promise was essentially a load of BS and see how well that flies. People can be somewhat forgiving when unforseen circumstances cause you delays in making good on your promise. That all evaporates when you specifically outline a strategy of ignoring your previous promises.

#2956 4 years ago
Quoted from Dr_Spaceman:

these words also came directly from DP: "All deposits are fully refundable until your machine goes into production". Until that gets sorted out they are liars and their word cannot be trusted. Sorry if that sounds blunt, but I can't see any other way to look at it.

The fact is that that statement didn't specify WHEN the deposit would be refunded... as I asked earlier, but no-one answered, since they didn't specify when the refund would be made, do they have a legal obligation to give the refund in a certain time-frame, or can they wait 'till a game has been produced and then offer it to the guy who asked for the refund, if he says 'no thanks, I want my money back' they move to the next in line. I find it hard to imagine anyone would say no to the game if they did that, because that person would risk losing everything... better to have the game than risk that, and seeing as people got in FOR the game, it's a fairly safe bet...

My question, again, is: Is it within DPs legal rights to proceed like this since there was no timeframe specified regarding WHEN the requested refund would be made?

I have no idea myself, which is why I'm throwing the question out there...

#2957 4 years ago
Quoted from Sjsilver:

but I am fairly sure it's safe to say that holding half paid customers' money hostage is a terrible strategy for getting them to pay the full amount later.

Your reply to my post came as I was asking the question again

I wouldn't expect them to hold the deposit hostage for getting them to pay the full amount later, just maybe to delay paying the refund 'till the game is actually made, and then offering them the game OR the refund... the person would still be given what they were promised if they still want it (the refund)... and since no time was specified, they won't be breaking their promise...

I can understand that proceeding this way could rub some people up because they want what they were promised 'NOW', but personally I wouldn't mind if this was the way they were planning to go... It might help them survive, and therefore we'd all get what we want in the end (refund OR game)...

You have to admit, these guys have been through some drastic times and had to make some drastic changes, so maybe this drastic approach is the only way to sail through this mess...?

I'm not a businessman and am in no way saying this is a good way to do business, I'm also not saying that this is how I believe DP will proceed, I'm just wondering if it's a legal possibility...

#2958 4 years ago

Hey pinballslave, not sure why you feel the need to question my motives. My opinion is as valid as yours.

I would be very worried by the recent behavior by DP if I had thousands invested…worried enough to want to get my money out ASAP.

You keep asking/forecasting about DP’s next move and customer’s rights, so you must be worried too. It is a waste of energy to try to predict their next move and the only move you have to protect your investment is by taking preemptive legal action (demand letter from a lawyer).

#2959 4 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

The big lesson....Pre Orders Suck. If this were a normal company funded by owners investment, all this stuff could be/would be happening behind the scenes and no one would know or care.
Different story when you've got 1000's of dollars invested in the company.
My guess is there is no way DP could fulfil all the requested refunds without obtaining external funding. So they are trying to buy time. Hopefully that's what the new accountant guy is working on.

Remember guys, in a new business, a pre-order is buying the team or a person, not the product. The products will only be produced later if the team can pull it off. I had faith in JJP and CharlieE to preorder their games, b/c I knew they could get it done. The others... not. I barely got to see my BP 2.0 kit find its way into production and completion - even though I don't have it yet, I know where it is and that it exists. I pre-order is a big risk - I'm shocked that people didnt see that.

#2960 4 years ago

What's the latest info from DP in regards to refund requests? Have they issued an email/statement to any of those who've submitted a refund request?? Any statement at all from DP in the last 2 to 3 weeks???

#2961 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

You've been a member of Pinside for 2 weeks, made 7 posts and are making statements that are trying to evoke more panic in people who are already spooked by what's happening at DP... For what do we owe the pleasure of your input?

I "ignored" him immediately. Love that Pinside feature.

#2962 4 years ago

Robfg
Well the first reason is like you said... If you had money invested . You don't so it's not a shared opinion.
It's an opinion and you are entitled to it but we don't have to respect it.
It's very odd to jump in to a group and spend all your focus on negative especially if not involved. Tell me you had a similar experience at least or why you share someone's pain here. Otherwise it's hard to get.

#2963 4 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

So you're stiffing peoples opinions based upon duration of membership? This is a free country, being a bully has no effect here. Plus, I think he's right.

But obvious trolling I don't like can be ignored by me with a simple click - that's my free right to "NOT" hear him - and I think he is bullying us by his BS. I think he's wrong

-1
#2964 4 years ago

Hwawonyu, how is my focus negative?

I am not an investor, but considered it when the game was first announced as I have been a big fan of the movie/Jeff Bridges and also have had pinball machines (T2 currently, and Space Jam & Fun House previously).

I feel sick about the situation and it appears as if the company will not make it. If I had any deposit money in, I would be fighting for it back and that is the ONLY reason I posted.

#2965 4 years ago

Why does it appear this company wont make it?

Cause of some negative blokes on a forum?

Please.... Give me a break.

#2966 4 years ago
Quoted from robfg67:

Hwawonyu, how is my focus negative?
I am not an investor, but considered it when the game was first announced as I have been a big fan of the movie/Jeff Bridges and also have had pinball machines (T2 currently, and Space Jam & Fun House previously).
I feel sick about the situation and it appears as if the company will not make it. If I had any deposit money in, I would be fighting for it back and that is the ONLY reason I posted.

You don't know if the company is going to make it or not.
Not everyone wants a refund . There are a lot of people still in.

#2967 4 years ago

Yeah there's a poll on here where 50% are out, 30% are in, and 20% are on the fence. Given the license seems in ok shape, there is not the evidence Thst the most likely scenario is total collapse.. Its on the board now after all this, but jumping straight to worst case as if it is the only possible outcome at this point is lame.

#2968 4 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

Why does it appear this company wont make it?
Cause of some negative blokes on a forum?
Please.... Give me a break.

To the death. Defend them to the death and ignore all the current issues.

#2969 4 years ago

I will get one , ones there is full production
And pre orders are shipped

My money is in my bank

#2970 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Yeah there's a poll on here where 50% are out, 30% are in, and 20% are on the fence. Given the license seems in ok shape, there is not the evidence Thst the most likely scenario is total collapse.. Its on the board now after all this, but jumping straight to worst case as if it is the only possible outcome at this point is lame.

I can not find it, a little hepl with a poll link?
thanks,

16
#2971 4 years ago

Ugh who is this guy who keeps telling everyone they aren't entitled to having an opinion if they don't have a deposit down? To me that's even lamer than this DP mess; I hate to see hobbyists acting like that to one another.

#2972 4 years ago
Quoted from robfg67:

In my opinion, all customers who gave a deposit must do whatever they can to get as much of that money back ASAP. Forget about holding out hope that you will ever get the machine...that is called blind faith and there is enough smoke here to warrant action.

Quoted from pinballslave:

You've been a member of Pinside for 2 weeks, made 7 posts and are making statements that are trying to evoke more panic in people who are already spooked by what's happening at DP... For what do we owe the pleasure of your input?

Ah guys....he's been a member for over a year, not 2 weeks. And the previous posts he's made are about legit technical questions.

23
#2973 4 years ago

Meanwhile in Wisconsin;

spooky.jpg

-6
#2974 4 years ago

That backglass sucks arse!

#2975 4 years ago
Quoted from Dr_Spaceman:

I really, really hope that is true. However, these words also came directly from DP: "All deposits are fully refundable until your machine goes into production". Until that gets sorted out they are liars and their word cannot be trusted. Sorry if that sounds blunt, but I can't see any other way to look at it. Also, they should shout that Apr 1st date from the rooftops. Slap that in a newsletter so it means something. Why keep it in private conversations unless it might not happen?
I'm still considering getting back in, but no way until those refunds are sorted out. Saw the 100+ recent new posts and thought maybe something happened. Nope! Well, here is another uninformed post to throw in the pile.

I totally agree, I was in, hot a refund from Phil, so asked a bunch of questions to DP, just got a 'stock' reply not one of my concerns were answered, as such staying out until this cluster fu&$ gets sorted or they start shipping....

#2976 4 years ago
Quoted from Curtis_Playfield:

Ugh who is this guy who keeps telling everyone they aren't entitled to having an opinion

Quoted from Hwawonyu:

It's an opinion and you are entitled to it

Stop turning it around. My point was answering why he was getting some grief. I clearly said its welcome here. But to answer his question, that person then needs to know that folks involved also are looking for folks in similar water to understand their feelings. I also clearly said share some of the point of view so we get where its coming from vs just jumping in and yelling fire which he did and thats great.

At this point you are saying its ok for his opinion which we did as well but not ok to have ours.

As inhomearcade said all sides and pressure needs to stay on this . We all agree. I want you to get your refund. The last thing I want is folks screaming fire and it all blows up and we don't get games and you don't get a refund and all because people with no vested interest just keep screaming.

Plenty of folks with no vested interest ask great questions its the few cases that stick out and make you wonder what they want. So ask? And he answered which is cool. Thats called a discussion.

#2977 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

But obvious trolling I don't like can be ignored by me with a simple click - that's my free right to "NOT" hear him - and I think he is bullying us by his BS. I think he's wrong

Indeed you do, hopefully you ignore me too.

#2978 4 years ago

I don't know why I even bother looking at this thread anymore. There has been zero word from DP in 3 weeks and you're all arguing over speculative stuff.

16
#2979 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Stop turning it around. My point was answering why he was getting some grief. I clearly said its welcome here. But to answer his question, that person then needs to know that folks involved also are looking for folks in similar water to understand their feelings. I also clearly said share some of the point of view so we get where its coming from vs just jumping in and yelling fire which he did and thats great.
At this point you are saying its ok for his opinion which we did as well but not ok to have ours.
As inhomearcade said all sides and pressure needs to stay on this . We all agree. I want you to get your refund. The last thing I want is folks screaming fire and it all blows up and we don't get games and you don't get a refund and all because people with no vested interest just keep screaming.
Plenty of folks with no vested interest ask great questions its the few cases that stick out and make you wonder what they want. So ask? And he answered which is cool. Thats called a discussion.

Pal! Stop turning it around?? Read back through your posts, you're all over the map and your only constant is that your opinion outweighs that of a person who didn't plop the deposit down. Folks are not simply "screaming fire" because of this thread, some of us are "screaming fire" because the way DP has chosen to handle (or not handle) the situation is...I mean it is pathetic. If you were confident that DP were solid you'd let everyone participate in the discussion, not just the people you cherry pick.

I know some of you guys think you're doing a great honorable service of some sort to Dutch Pinball, but to me it's coming off as a disservice. They REALLY need to speak up and stand up for themselves, and stop letting you guys do it. I for one am not going to listen to a blind faith wingnut OR a malicious TBL turncoat, I want to hear FROM THE COMPANY.

If I wanted crickets I'd play Frontier dammit!

#2980 4 years ago
Quoted from robfg67:

Hey pinballslave, not sure why you feel the need to question my motives. My opinion is as valid as yours.

I would be very worried by the recent behavior by DP if I had thousands invested…worried enough to want to get my money out ASAP.

You keep asking/forecasting about DP’s next move and customer’s rights, so you must be worried too. It is a waste of energy to try to predict their next move and the only move you have to protect your investment is by taking preemptive legal action (demand letter from a lawyer).

I feel the need to question your motives because a) I don't know what they are, and b) the only effect of what you are writing is to evoke panic in people who are already spooked by what's happening at DP, and that's not good for me or anyone who is still either 'in' or waiting for a refund... which leaves no-one at all... Advising people to start taking legal action I can't see is helping anyone... It will just cause more harm to what we (the people who have money invested in this company) want to succeed... Yes, I'm worried, but I don't see a solution to that worry to make things worse for DP.

I have 1000s invested and am worried enough to want things to go smoothly so I get something for it... so do you have anything invested to give you any actual concern for how smoothly things go at DP so you get something for that money? Is that your motive? If not, for what do we owe the pleasure of your input?

#2981 4 years ago

How are you not hearing that we want your refund ASAP. We are equally concerned. More hopeful but also want this cleaned up.
You screaming fire as someone with the same money tied up as me, carries more weight to me. Sorry if that pisses you off but its how I and some feel.
Others making fair and even tough statements based on what they see or know also carries weight.
For me and it does not have to be for you, folks who never were on board before or in some cases even around showing up and yelling fire don't add as much benefit. And to be fair if they showed up screaming yeah its all good I would still ask them based on what? Are they in do they know people? Why do they just show up with this info now.
I get your pissed and you are freakng out. Been there. I won't even try to tell you to calm down because you every right to be pissed. I will say you may want to write Barry...alot! And not listen blindly to every unsubstaniated story.
Like I said there are plenty of really smart veterans not involved with good experience to lend to the discussion but if a stranger shows up get you riled just ask where its coming from.
Most importantly remember my vested interest hopefully is thatyou and I come out OK. thats not the case with the other person. Remember I got my money out and put it back in. I did invest in us. We lose they don't.

#2982 4 years ago

I was pissed, don't really give a hoot anymore. "I'm calmer than you are" one might say

#2983 4 years ago
Quoted from Curtis_Playfield:

I for one am not going to listen to a blind faith wingnut OR a malicious TBL turncoat, I want to hear FROM THE COMPANY.

Agree!!!!!!

#2984 4 years ago

Personally, I don't care if DP ever says another word, all I care about is getting my refund. Sure, I want to see this game made, but right now, they need to prioritize. If they don't take care of these refunds, they are hurting themselves in the long run.

#2985 4 years ago
Quoted from Curtis_Playfield:

I was pissed, don't really give a hoot anymore. "I'm calmer than you are" one might say

I'd also be calmer than Hwawonyu if I didn't have money tied up in this.

Quoted from aeonblack:

Personally, I don't care if DP ever says another word, all I care about is getting my refund. Sure, I want to see this game made,

Just one question: If DP makes the game and says to you, your game is made and ready to ship (with the trimmings you got as a VIP) OR you can have the refund you asked for, which would you take?

#2986 4 years ago

Pinball "slave"...are you suggesting that I don't have money tied up? Ugh you people!

#2987 4 years ago

Um Mam, what happened to calm... Bad joke ..

-10
#2988 4 years ago
Quoted from Curtis_Playfield:

Pinball "slave"...are you suggesting that I don't have money tied up? Ugh you people!

Sorry overweight stoned looking meth addict woman it was clearly a bad assumption on my side... So we're pulling from the same end of the rope then

OK, how's this for an analogy: We were promised a cruise to an exotic island, where they serve exquisite White Russian and have an excellent bowling alley... Some people decided to go for it and got on the ship. Half way across the ocean there was an unexpected evacuation of random passengers by helicopter airlift, people were confused... then the organiser of this airlift informs everyone that he believes there's a storm coming, so he decided to try and save people...

Lots of people are still on that ship, and are now understandably worried, because the storm is here!! Many want to get off, but the captian is determined to make it through the storm and get to that island... Onlookers are screaming to the people 'get off, get off... abandon ship!!!' But the people on-board can't see an easy way off... what should they do? Start screaming at the captian so he's distracted from what he's doing, or try and keep him calm to help the whole shipload of people make it through the storm and reach that island, and, of course, have a shitload of White Russian to get over the shock?

Post edited by pinballslave: Corrected descriptor of adresee at adresee's advice

#2989 4 years ago

There wasn't a joke to be had IMO unless your bar for jokes is below the floor

Also I'm no dude, I'm an overweight stoned looking meth addict woman, you must not read enough Pinside

#2990 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

I'd also be calmer than Hwawonyu if I didn't have money tied up in this.

Just one question: If DP makes the game and says to you, your game is made and ready to ship (with the trimmings you got as a VIP) OR you can have the refund you asked for, which would you take?

There is one critical piece of info missing in that choice. If DP says, 'We have resolved all issues, contracted manufacturing and, therefore, you can have your money back or we can ship the game to you in 6 weeks', I imagine nearly 100% will take the game. If they say 'We have lots of issues we have to deal with from legal to financial to manufacturing but now have a solid plan in place; however, we now project games won't be shipped until 2020, so we can offer you a full refund', I imagine nearly 100% would take the refund. Of course, the answer falls between those two extremes. And, I am confident everyone has a different point at which they stay or bail. The absence of information simply confirms that there are issues and suggests that the timeline for resolving those issues is unknown.

#2991 4 years ago

What's the latest response from DP? Have they made an official statement in the last 4 weeks??

#2992 4 years ago
Quoted from BoozeMarlin:

What's the latest response from DP? Have they made an official statement in the last 4 weeks??

You bet they have!

8329.gif

#2993 4 years ago

Buddy Holly The Crickets.jpg
#2994 4 years ago
Quoted from Curtis_Playfield:

Also I'm no dude, I'm an overweight stoned looking meth addict woman, you must not read enough Pinside

Mom? Is that you? When did you join pinside?

#2995 4 years ago

They responded on the 31st, so 3 weeks ago.

#2996 4 years ago
Quoted from BoozeMarlin:

What's the latest response from DP? Have they made an official statement in the last 4 weeks??

Dude, you played that record just 20hrs ago... don't you have another one?

Quoted from Oldgoat:

There is one critical piece of info missing in that choice. If DP says, 'We have resolved all issues, contracted manufacturing and, therefore, you can have your money back or we can ship the game to you in 6 weeks', I imagine nearly 100% will take the game. If they say 'We have lots of issues we have to deal with from legal to financial to manufacturing but now have a solid plan in place; however, we now project games won't be shipped until 2020, so we can offer you a full refund', I imagine nearly 100% would take the refund. Of course, the answer falls between those two extremes. And, I am confident everyone has a different point at which they stay or bail. The absence of information simply confirms that there are issues and suggests that the timeline for resolving those issues is unknown.

Don't give him clues... let him answer himself

#2997 4 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

Mom? Is that you? When did you join pinside?

Nope! I am not a parent, something that should bring all of you great relief.

My last communication from Barry was on January 7 2015 for the record.

#2998 4 years ago

Just trying to lighten the mood. No harm meant.

#2999 4 years ago

Skins, if ya knew me, you'd know that I'm just here tryin' to do the same. If it isn't clear I can take a heck of a lot of crap here and I come out generally unscathed. I'll buy anyone in this thread a nice boozy drink if we ever meet.

#3000 4 years ago

She is actually one of the cool ones in this game.

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