(Topic ID: 112377)

DP USA Refund - Still Want the Game


By JDinNOVA

4 years ago



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There are 3821 posts in this topic. You are on page 57 of 77.
#2801 4 years ago

So my secretary just brought me the mail. DP USA just sent me my t-shirts. So the good news is that they do have people in the US working at this time. The question I have is, if they are paying to ship these t-shirts out and the label is from DPUSA, who paid for the postage?

#2802 4 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

Just like Curtis_playfield giving my statement a thumbs down. I don't get that, what I said is very honest and not bashing DP, just stating facts and yet he will thumbs down it because those facts are not pro DP.

Another possibility is that he wanted to give you a thumbs up, but was using a iPhone and missed the spot by a couple of pixels... it's not an un-common thing...

I would also like to hear some kind of public statement from DP about all this, it's about time we got some facts laid on the table!!

#2803 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

Another possibility is that he wanted to give you a thumbs up, but was using a iPhone and missed the spot by a couple of pixels... it's not an un-common thing...
I would also like to hear some kind of public statement from DP about all this, it's about time we got some facts laid on the table!!

I can see that, my damn fat thumb does it all the time.

#2804 4 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

I am a supporter as well, although I don't come across that way most of the time. I think people find it hard to understand that you can support a company and at the same time criticize that company. Everyone here seems to be very black and white on the subject. Just like Curtis_playfield giving my statement a thumbs down. I don't get that, what I said is very honest and not bashing DP, just stating facts and yet he will thumbs down it because those facts are not pro DP. People need to understand you can support a company and question them all at the same time.

Yeah, if you are assuming that Curtis_playfield is giving you a thumbs down because she (it's a she) is one of the DP defender squad, you haven't been keeping up. She's been very vocal about how shitty their response was to her refund request that came BEFORE all this blew up, and especially after which has been a lot of passing the buck and stonewalling.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of people on this thread who will down vote any and every post that is negative in any way towards DP, but CP isn't one of them.

#2805 4 years ago
Quoted from Sjsilver:

Yeah, if you are assuming that Curtis_playfield is giving you a thumbs down because she (it's a she) is one of the DP defender squad, you haven't been keeping up. She's been very vocal about how shitty their response was to her refund request that came BEFORE all this blew up, and especially after which has been a lot of passing the buck and stonewalling.
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of people on this thread who will down vote any and every post that is negative in any way towards DP, but CP isn't one of them.

Yea she actually sent me a pm to clariy. She apologized and I let her know that no apology needed. I was just using her as an example at the time for people that blindly support DP no matter what. I apologized for using her as my example. Nice of her to send me a pm though.

#2806 4 years ago

Posted on Facebook not too long ago by DP, at least it is SOME word from the dungeon and the "Under Licensee Approval" is definitely telling but hopefully a good sign the license issues are being worked out.

Today and tomorrow the members of the Nederlandse Flipper Vereniging (Dutch Flipper Association) can play TBL prototype during the official opening of the new clubhouse. We want to thank NBC Universal for their official approval to show our prototype of The Big LebowskiTM Pinball during this event.
Today and tomorrow the members of the Nederlandse Flipper Vereniging (Dutch Flipper Association) can play TBL prototype during the official opening of the new clubhouse. We want to thank NBC Universal for their official approval to show our prototype of The Big LebowskiTM Pinball during this event.
10941442.jpg

#2807 4 years ago

Hopefully some pics and video are posted from the event.

#2808 4 years ago
Quoted from bemmett:

We want to thank NBC Universal for their official approval to show our prototype of The Big LebowskiTM Pinball during this event.

I take from this that Phil is still needing to be convinced they are doing right by the license... i.e., showing the game in public even though the play-field is not finally approved. And whether they had that with the NYC show or not, they wanted to make sure Phil (and us) could see the giant ass sticker implying that this action was blessed by Universal.

The interesting point then would be; if this is the exact same art that is on the USA prototypes.. it would imply there is nothing SO offensive on that playfield to Universal that it can't be shown.. i.e., putting some perspective on and downplaying "license is at risk" doomsday scenarios.

At least its a sign of life, and if it helps Phil be more cooperative, that's good too.

#2809 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

I take from this that Phil is still needing to be convinced they are doing right by the license... i.e., showing the game in public even though the play-field is not finally approved.

We're all guessing of course, but I doubt Phil is calling the shots on this -- presumably this would reflect advice/direction they're taking from Roger Sharpe?

-4
#2810 4 years ago

All Phils' worries about DP drained right to the middle with that pic.

#2811 4 years ago

Meanwhile, on the liquidity front... *crickets*.

27
#2812 4 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

All Phils' worries about DP drained right to the middle with that pic.

Actually I see it as a Justification of Phil's speak about the license. Previously that type of notification wasn't there and if you believe what he wrote was discounted by the other 2 head gentleman. Now of course Roger is involved and he wouldn't allow any non conformity so I think they no longer are playing games which is a good thing but definitely shows some merit in what Phil said initially.

#2813 4 years ago

You don't slap a huge sticker over the main characters if "everything is worked out". You put the sticker over the images if Universal has a problem with how you're executing the license.

#2814 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

Actually I see it as a Justification of Phil's speak about the license. Previously that type of notification wasn't there and if you believe what he wrote was discounted by the other 2 head gentleman. Now of course Roger is involved and he wouldn't allow any non conformity so I think they no longer are playing games which is a good thing but definitely shows some merit in what Phil said initially.

Quoted from Curtis_Playfield:

You don't slap a huge sticker over the main characters if "everything is worked out". You put the sticker over the images if Universal has a problem with how you're executing the license.

I agree on both accounts. This is a clear indication that DP was doing things without approval. Perhaps those quick to lynch Phil should give pause and consider that a portion of his greivances were justified. Either way, there are outstanding issues out there that DP is trying to rectify and everything isn't smooth sailing just yet.

#2815 4 years ago
Quoted from Curtis_Playfield:

You don't slap a huge sticker over the main characters if "everything is worked out". You put the sticker over the images if Universal has a problem with how you're executing the license.

Not necessarily. I don't think that there is any doubt that DP are waiting on final approval for the playfeild artwork but that doesn't mean that Universal believes that they are in violation of the license. I would think that if that were the case they would not be showing the pf to the public at all.

#2816 4 years ago

Its fully reasonable that the sticker is there referencing the playfield as a whole, so it was placed right in the middle so any large pics of the playfield will show it.

#2817 4 years ago

So two sides to this though:
- point for Phil: does look like the playfield is still not final approved per his statements here

- point for DP: the License did not get pulled, in fact universal is willing to let them still show the unapproved playfield (sticker may or may not be mandatory).. I.e., license was not fucked up.. Like Roger said.. After talking with Universal himself he felt he was a band aid, not a tourniquet.

So the only thing that is all fucked up is this thread and the stir it caused which may/may not cause real issues later/currently with 50% of people wanting refunds. That seems 90% on Phils shoulders.. The rest on DP for not recognizing he was that close to popping.

11
#2818 4 years ago

I dunno...I requested my refund prior to all of this hullabaloo. And nothing. So to say that DP's problems are exclusive to this thread seems a touch short sighted.

#2819 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

So two sides to this though:
- point for Phil: does look like the playfield is still not final approved per his statements here
- point for DP: the License did not get pulled, in fact universal is willing to let them still show the unapproved playfield (sticker may or may not be mandatory).. I.e., license was not fucked up.. Like Roger said.. After talking with Universal himself he felt he was a band aid, not a tourniquet.
So the only thing that is all fucked up is this thread and the stir it caused which may/may not cause real issues later/currently with 50% of people wanting refunds. That seems 90% on Phils shoulders.. The rest on DP for not recognizing he was that close to popping.

Licensing was a very small reason why many pulled out. The real reason was the financing.

10
#2820 4 years ago

I was there today. See enclosed pictures.

Rest assured, the license is safe and Yep, some is still under approval which is why the big label is there placed in such a way it can't be missed and not because something in that area needed to be covered.

Kahlua is blackened to, no surprise there either.

All was done in corporation with roger and universal. Soundtracks and callouts are there to.

So guys, again, rest assure, license is safe and work is in progress.

image.jpg image-871.jpg image-374.jpg
#2821 4 years ago
Quoted from Rensh:

Kahlua is blackened to, no surprise there either.

Bloody morons... sorry, but if Brunswick see the potential for free advertising by not requesting money for the approval to use their logo, why can't Kahlua? I can see an after market decal being made

#2822 4 years ago
Quoted from Rensh:

I was there today. See enclosed pictures.
Rest assured, the license is safe and Yep, some is still under approval which is why the big label is there placed in such a way it can't be missed and not because something in that area needed to be covered.
Kahlua is blackened to, no surprise there either.
All was done in corporation with roger and universal. Soundtracks and callouts are there to.
So guys, again, rest assure, license is safe and work is in progress.

image.jpg 181 KB

image-871.jpg 199 KB

image-374.jpg 155 KB

Any new code?

#2823 4 years ago

Yeah I don't know how many times I have to say this, but you can 100% chalk up the differences between Phil's assessment of the license issues and Roger's assessment of the license issues to differences of professional opinion, and probably experience.

1) We know DP was making and showing unapproved stuff.
2) We know the letter of the license agreement doesn't allow this (Hence the giant sticker covering the section that was blacked out in the promo video and the blacked out kahlua. If they were following the letter of the license, these would have been covered up every time the games were shown.)
3) We know that Phil thought these instances of ignoring the license restrictions, as well as past licensing experiences that phil outlined (backed up by the frustrated email from universal) made Phil worried that these continued actions were putting the license into jeopardy (I know some people claim to have theories about ulterior motives by Phil, but I see no credible evidence that he wasn't genuinely concerned about this.)
4) We know that Roger took a look at all of the outstanding license issues, and their decision to show the game publicly, and he felt that, based on his experience, the license was just fine.
5) We know that Roger has now advised them that it's fine to show the game publicly, but that they just need to cover up the unapproved stuff, and that Universal has signed off on this. (again, you could say that DP is lying here, just like you can say that Phil was lying, but I find no reason to disbelieve them.)

Phil said a lot of stuff, but the simplest explanation for all of the hub-bub about the license issues is that he had a different, yet still honest, interpretation of the situation than DP and ultimately Roger had. Yes they were breaking the letter of the law, but it wasn't, in the end, as big of a deal as Phil thought it was, and now they are following the letter of the law.

Again, the questions about the current state of the license were answered when Roger took DP on as a client and put his reputation on the line by saying "Everything is fine." They are still working stuff out, and some of the stuff people saw previously in person might not make it into the final game. And for whatever reason, they didn't listen to phil but are now listening to Roger, and the license is fine, and probably always was. That doesn't mean Phil was a liar, it just means that he probably was being a little too over-worried about that aspect of the business.

The license is a non-issue. There is still plenty of doubt around the other financial issues of the company, and they have yet to really address those. They have to meet those refund requests, and hopefully the people who stay in will prevent immediate default while they figure out another financial way to make it to the finish line, where the money will most definitely come flooding back.

#2824 4 years ago

First mod on my game....an "Under Licensee Approve" sticker...

licensee approve.JPG
#2825 4 years ago
Quoted from burningman:

First mod on my game....an "Under Licensee Approve" sticker

Shouldn't it read 'under licensee approval'?

-10
#2826 4 years ago

Folks still choosing to blame Phil at this later date reminds me of the idiots that wanted to keep blaming a certain FORMER President 6 years (and counting) after his predecessor was clearly steering the ship....

Post edited by moderator: 24 hour eject. Please keep politics off of this site.

#2827 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

Shouldn't it read 'under licensee approval'?

language differences

#2828 4 years ago

Let us not forget Phil seemed to have no problem at Expo getting people to sign up for TBL.
If he was truly that upset with what he thought was wrong why did he not boycott being at Expo.
He was talking and throwing out the fbombs about how awesome DP was.
Then afterwards says they are not so good.
Disgruntled employee. Nothing more nothing less. He is a part of whatever was wrong and just as much to blame.

#2829 4 years ago

DP does not have the money to issue the refunds without bankrupting the company. That's why the crickets and no mention of liquidity. So basically we all need to just sit and pray that they will have the cash to build everyone's machine. There will be no refunds.

-1
#2830 4 years ago
Quoted from Sjsilver:

Yeah I don't know how many times I have to say this, but

Please make it the last time...Pretty please?

#2831 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Folks still choosing to blame Phil at this later date reminds me of the idiots that wanted to keep blaming a certain FORMER President 6 years (and counting) after his predecessor was clearly steering the ship....

Why drag your politics into this? This is about pinball.

#2832 4 years ago

For those of you who are wondering how I know that my previous statement is true, here is my answer:

The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. If DPU can hold out long enough and begin production, then customers will recind their requests for a refund. That's their plan. They don't want to refund anyone else and are using the PHil PayPal situation as an excuse.

I have given up hope for a refund, and am eagerly awaiting production and my machine.

#2833 4 years ago
Quoted from ozno:

For those of you who are wondering how I know that my previous statement is true, here is my answer:
The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. If DPU can hold out long enough and begin production, then customers will recind their requests for a refund. That's their plan. They don't want to refund anyone else and are using the PHil PayPal situation as an excuse.
I have given up hope for a refund, and am eagerly awaiting production and my machine.

If you have given up hope on a refund what in the hell makes you think production will even happen?

#2834 4 years ago
Quoted from wolftownjeff:

If you have given up hope on a refund what in the hell makes you think production will even happen?

Great question. I'm thinking some new preorder money coming in could solve this refund issue but how can new sales get a boost at this point? Open up the preorder pricing again since its too late now? Those who come back get put to the back of the line which is no big deal.

#2835 4 years ago
Quoted from ozno:

There is a real question whether they can survive. If they were solid, they would have immediately issued a statement that DP USA is no longer, but everyone's money is safe with DP. They refuse to do that. They seem to be heading towards some resolution where they blame PHil for taking our money and absolving themselves of responsibility. Only problem is DP is liable for all the money as there was never any legal distinction between DP and DP USA. The machine is dead if they don't sort this out. I cont care that much about my $5500, but after I get done talking with Universal, DP won't have a TBL a license. The machine is going to rock if it gets made, so I am really hoping that DP fixes this.

Quoted from ozno:

The lack of detail in the update is disappointing, but I have some hope. I'm going to give them two weeks before I panic.

Quoted from ozno:

Some new shit has come to light. I've decided that fuck it dude. I'm in. Just made next payment.

Quoted from ozno:

Talked to Barry and I think they will sort it out.

Quoted from ozno:

DP does not have the money to issue the refunds without bankrupting the company. That's why the crickets and no mention of liquidity. So basically we all need to just sit and pray that they will have the cash to build everyone's machine. There will be no refunds.

Quoted from ozno:

For those of you who are wondering how I know that my previous statement is true, here is my answer:
The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. If DPU can hold out long enough and begin production, then customers will recind their requests for a refund. That's their plan. They don't want to refund anyone else and are using the PHil PayPal situation as an excuse.
I have given up hope for a refund, and am eagerly awaiting production and my machine.

Dude, you're all over the place. One minute you're going on about talking to Universal and blowing up the licensing deal. The next minute, you're talking to Barry, saying "new shit has come to light" and doubling down with the next payment. Now you're talking about liquidity again (even though that situation has never changed). I wouldn't worry about other people reading too much into your posts, because it seems pretty clear that you haven't even made up your own mind.

May I suggest that you sit down, relax, and mix yourself a White Russian? The Kahlua is sitting on top of the bar. It's the one with the electrical tape over the brand name.

#2836 4 years ago
Quoted from JimB:

Great question. I'm thinking some new preorder money coming in could solve this refund issue but how can new sales get a boost at this point? Open up the preorder pricing again since its too late now? Those who come back get put to the back of the line which is no big deal.

After reading all of this who in the world would pre-order as messed up as situation this? No one with any money sense.

#2837 4 years ago
Quoted from wolftownjeff:

After reading all of this who in the world would pre-order as messed up as situation this? No one with any money sense.

Point taken, just throwing it out there.

#2838 4 years ago

And the speculation continues. Who cares about the licensing issues. They have bigger concerns on their hands, people want thier money back. Until they can address that by either finding money to process those refunds or pleasing people to stay in, there's no point in working out other problems as a priority. Not saying they should sit and twiddle thier thumbs, but figure out how to take care of the giant gash the company is bleeding from and then focus on building the game and recapturing customers and gaining new ones. The longer this goes on, the more people that are going to back out and the longer new people will not be signing up. Refunds first would be the best money they can spend at this point, they will see that money back in new orders or people jumping back in because they can show they have thier finances under control. Have to spend money to get money back in.

#2839 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

Dude, you're all over the place. One minute you're going on about talking to Universal and blowing up the licensing deal. The next minute, you're talking to Barry, saying "new shit has come to light" and doubling down with the next payment. Now you're talking about liquidity again (even though that situation has never changed). I wouldn't worry about other people reading too much into your posts, because it seems pretty clear that you haven't even made up your own mind.
May I suggest that you sit down, relax, and mix yourself a White Russian? The Kahlua is sitting on top of the bar. It's the one with the electrical tape over the brand name.

Lol. Yes I am all over the place. I'm in. I believe this thread needs to stay alive, so they don't get complacent. Need updates.

#2840 4 years ago

Full month since unrequested refunds were issued & requested refunds were not. Still a shit show. WTF is going on DP?!?

#2841 4 years ago
Quoted from zucot:

Any new code?

Yes. I played two games on TBL and noticed several differences compared to what I played at Expo (or maybe I just didn't get that far at Expo). When the character are spelled out the now says Maude mode is ready (or something like that). Then you get to play the lower bowling alley and the bowlingball below the character lights up. There must be more but this is what I remember most specifically.

#2842 4 years ago

There ware some "minor" updates in the code of the PROTO machine.

I played a lot of games yesterday even before the official opening of the DPA's "Funhouse". I heard a lot of positive news and DP is still on "track" to start producing in April.

But on the other side, It's not my job to place all details on Pinside.

#2843 4 years ago

Gonna play it in the nfv-clubhouse today

-5
#2844 4 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

Licensing was a very small reason why many pulled out. The real reason was the financing.

Wrong! And you know it!

Jeeeeeh, those guys just causing the same stir over and over again.

Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

Yes, Barry is an amazing designer -- one of the best I've ever known. My mission when I was with DP was to make him a rockstar -- the next Python.
But here's my concern. When you load these prototypes up with assets you legally cannot use, and make videos of them, and plaster images all over the web...
you WILL get caught.
you WILL lose the license.
you WILL NOT make the machine.

Phil wanted out because he was afraid DP was crossing license bounderies, which could cost them the whole license. Result of that could be that Phil could get in financial trouble cause his name is all over the company.

That is the reason. Just like he explained HIMSELF!

Dont turn it around now, just to make DP look bad. Dp had never had financial issues until Phil came out of the closet.

Now its clear there is no danger at all of losing the license, Phils' worries were not granted.

Wish Robin would kick all those negative blokes from this topic. Guys that are in this topic from the start. Keep on bringing 'old cows' ( ) up. Its getting boring.

This pin will be made! DP and Phil will find a solution, as they will with the paypal funding problems.

Period.

#2845 4 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

Phil wanted out because he was afraid DP was crossing license bounderies, which could cost them the whole license. Result of that could be that Phil could get in financial trouble cause his name is all over the company.
That is the reason. Just like he explained HIMSELF!

Well, you may be right that Phil stated that that was the main reason to get out, but you're responding to this sentence

Quoted from Plungemaster:

Licensing was a very small reason why many pulled out. The real reason was the financing.

and I don't think 'many' and Phil are the same person.

I'm still confident that production will start this year, games will ship and everything (including refunds) will turn out right in the end, but asking for some people not to be able to post here anymore, isn't a good idea. Everyone should be able to post his frustration, questions, etc... Otherwise: who would decide which posts are ok and which aren't?

I can understand the frustration of not being updated, but maybe there are good reasons for it. I.e. they (Barry, Phil and Jaap) are working things out, but that takes time and one of the things they've agreed (or thought would be smart) is not to discredit the other.
You could say 'well, that's no reason not to give an update without discrediting anyone' but if they'd give an update without real information, probably some people would get mad about any real information missing. Or you give an update with some info, and people start discussing who's 'fault' it is.
I don't know what the reasons are, but I think DP has it's reasons to do things the way they do, even though I can understand that being a real problem for some 'refund-askers'.
Maybe Phil having chemo's isn't helping (slowing things down..... very understandably, but not 'convenient' for the refund/TBL-cause).

Above are just guesses/possibilies ofcourse....
Knowing some guys involved, though without having asked them for 'real'/'hard' information, I do think Plungemaster is right with the last one sentence of his post:

Quoted from Plungemaster:

This pin will be made! DP and Phil will find a solution, as they will with the paypal funding problems.

I think some of us Dutch people are more confident based on i.e. conversations, but IMO that shouldn't be a reason for 'us Dutch' to not take the doubters, some of them with a lot of money involved, seriously.

-1
#2846 4 years ago

That is a a different thing. I am also not happy the way they are handling the pay pal issues now.

But please dont keep on saying this whole mess started cause of DP financial issues. Cause that just aint true. And people that keep on bringing that up, know it aint true, cause they have been here from the start.

Why would you wanna do that? Is that gonne help the people that want their money back?

Ah well...

#2847 4 years ago

You guys don't make a bit of sense, right now there are people who are waiting for their refunds, you can dress this up however you want but until those people concerns are addressed, namely where is their money and what is the financial situation at this point, the rest is just conjecture. throwing a sticker on a machine hasn't changed anything. Let's try and remember that some people have been waiting over a month with their money stuck in limbo without a proper response.

Those people are our community, we should be supporting them. Persoanlly I dig the game, I'd like to see it made and I'd love to play it but first id like to see these people taken care of.

#2848 4 years ago

Yeah the half a dozen posts above yours all sound like a contrived conversation to try and calm those with cashflow concerns so it doesn't become a self fulfilling prophecy. Strangely it was a conversation between people that all apparently reside in Holland???

Genuine conversation or propaganda?

#2849 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Folks still choosing to blame Phil at this later date reminds me of the idiots that wanted to keep blaming a certain FORMER President 6 years (and counting) after his predecessor was clearly steering the ship....

Super lame bringing politics into this. Isn't this against the site rules?

#2850 4 years ago

Fuck it, let's go bowling.

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