DP USA Refund - Still Want the Game

Seriously if a company requires fully paid preorders to secure finance/commencement of manufacture then obviously it is not viable business. Otherwise banks would loan money.

I understand a ten percent deposit to gauge interest work out quantities etc but more than that does not make sense.

DP can refund monies ASAP they surely have a list of who paid what and when.

I agree dp needs to take care of this asap.

If some things need some time. Tell it to your costumers. It cost on about 5 minuts max to give a status report once a week.

Dont understand all thos pin companies. Alot of the hate just is trolling. But a big part of the hate and frustration is just because of their own actions. Or mostly, lack off action.

These pincompanies feed the trolls. Not pinside.

Didn't they send emails 12/15 and 12/31?
Saying exactly that they are working on it?

yes, but it is now 01/07/15, and no new sh*t has come to light

Yes however, as a customer that entered into a contract with dp to purchase a game that is refundable at any point, I want my refund and I don't care which of their entities provides it. If they don't have control over dpusa that is not my problem, they should be funding refunds from other entities of their company, even if it is a loan from one of thier other dp companies to dpusa. Why exactly are we forced to wait for them to figure out thier accounting problems? Pony up the cash owed to people and stop making your company look bad. I've always said I would be back in if I could get my refund, this wait has made me think twice about it. This whole situation is very un-dude.

I agree. This is now most likely a liquidity issue.

Hopefully this will all be water under the fridge soon enough.

A new paragraph has started!

That's a leaky water line to your ice maker.

What they are trying to figure out probably is whether or not DP USA is still a going concern and whether or not they can fold the US operation if need be without affecting the parent company. At this point, loaning money to DP USA might be a bad idea.

They likely want all their ducks in a row before they say much else.. I.e., when they have spoken in the past they have some positive step to unveil (Roger then the CPA guy). Given the CPA guy is just on board and the fact that huge time differences exist it may be slow going. I assume by Phil's silence he is cooperating with this.. But with his cancer treatments he is also probably in and out of contact. Plus the holidays (CPA guy prob didn't really "dig in" till just this Monday). Oh and since Jaap's mom apparently passed away he may be dealing with his own estate issues as well (he being a partner with Barry as well has to sign/agree to stuff, etc)

So.. Yeah.. I would expect this resolved end of the month but not much sooner.

Perhaps we will get an idea of how much they are likely to come through with the ruleset on the basis of what happens with the BOP 2.0 software.

BTW, what happened with the US kits shipping? Crickets lately.

From what I've heard, they're currently being assembled somewhere in the US. I won't say where. A buddy of mine received a pic the other day showing his ready to be packed up.

The snag is that the BOP 2.0 software is limited to the BOP playfield... sure, it could be used as a guide to their capabilities, but from a depth point of view, TBL will have much more potential because the game is designed to run on P-ROC I believe... 101 individually controlled lit feature inserts

Sounds like limited creative thinking. They have already shown that they can repurpose the inserts that are there. I think we will see how dedicated they are to finishing software.

I think th bst week or two could be the real turning point. Once they get this sorted and a new announcement coupled with some photos of happy BOP 2.0 owners and some refunds underway, people will be back on board full steam ahead. let's all hope those things happen

Why is the location such a big secret?

What are you saying? The DPU webite makes no mention of two distinct companies. It's just DP. My $5500 was given to DP and the website confirms that they have $5500 of my money. Just because there are two companies, doesn't absolve DP of their responsibility to honor my payments to the website. TBL Will not get made if they defraud us. I will make sure of that.

there are already a few kits released in the US, we did some testing on them

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Oh yeah I've been following the testing congrats guys.

Uh ya, NO

That is just not real, I would bet 75% of their pre-orders were from US orders and well over 50% of the money was in Phil's hands. "DP USA" does not get to disappear and everything is fine, they wouldn't stand a prayer.

Damn....thats scary

And it is also complete conjecture.

It is irrelevant if they are going to fold up dp usa. Either way they will need to absorb the assets and liabilities of dp usa as the parent company or continue dp usa. Basically they are on the hook no matter what they end up doing with dp usa, so in the mean time take care of your customers first. Which is never a bad idea.

Is that why they brought Roger Sharpe in? To supervise a liquidation?

I do get a laugh at some of the "sky is falling" conjecture and speculation.
Everyone that has requested a refund will get a refund . This whole deal is because of a disgruntled employee. It will get all straightened out and we will be back on track.
Hopefully discussing NSN updates and not this pie in the sky made up crap.
Dudes it's time to chill. Go out bowling or something.
Not worth it to get all worried about posts that are exaggerated and mostly made up.
TBL is getting made and those of us that are still in are going to be very very happy we did.
Later Dudes!

I personally am not saying the sky is falling. I think this company has promise and a good shot to make one of the best pins. All I am saying is that it should not be the customers who suffer from their mismanagement. I do not see how anyone, including barry himself can say otherwise. Take funds, even if it is personal funds, and process these refunds. Its no ones fault but their own that this has been the debacle it has been. All of these would be cool and chill if in fact they could process refunds. I could care less about all the other bs of how the company is doing, who owns it, where the licensing is, etc. I was in for that from day one, I knew there would be bumps in the road, delays, changes etc, but what I did not sign up for is for them to royally mess up and put my money into a state that it could not be refunded as promised. Bottom line, DP is to blame, as stated before, when we made our payments we made them to DP per the website. DP, Barry, whoever it takes process our refunds and most of us will still be on board to support you. There is literally not one reason this can not be done other than they do not have the financial backing to process the refunds, its plain and simple folks.

I believe Dutch Pinball is temporally paralyzed by opposing lawyers.

Phil's recent silence here leads me to believe that he lawyer-ed up and was told to shut-up. Legal advice he should have sought prior to igniting this public bonfire.

So both sides in my opinion are following legal advice that goes beyond the PayPal issue. Phil's exit from the company and his cooperation is a part of the complications here. And there maybe issues were not aware of. All of this causes delays and they need additional time.

Total speculation on my part. I could very well be wrong but I'm hoping for a good out come.

You draw conclusions while you don't know shit! You gave your opinion already, dude. No reason to keep on.

- Btw... I think a lot of you act real un-dude here...

At least we are all confident they still want to make a game and, given the prototypes, are pretty close. Even if they had to really slow down due to cash flow, and do it "spooky pinball" style (vs the incubator/contract manufacturing setup they've been showing that looks a lot more like a factory).. the game exists, and can be built.. and people want it. Given the JPOP compare/contrasts.. well, it certainly could be worse.

When I mentioned liquidity I was referring to their cash flow status, not suggesting they're on the verge of liquidating. Liquidating is what happens if you don't fix your cash flow.

My reasoning is this: boutique mfgers are funded by pre-orders and it's pretty much a good-faith sort of agreement. I.e. you don't want to upset customers or allow a sense of doubt that their money isn't safe, or they'll pull it.

So the question then becomes, why would they not issue refunds as quickly as possible? Some fence-sitters might see others getting their refunds, decide that yes, their money is safe, and leave it in. But if a fence-sitter sees others not getting their refunds, he goes into a panic. That panic spreads, now everyone wants out. So why risk a loss of faith?

Answer: because they may have no choice. If it comes down to "keeping the lights on" or issuing a refund, you stall the customer as long as you can.

As jazzmaster said, it's conjecture. No one knows for sure.

As do you, unless you want to share some shit you know?

Sorry... Can't say anything. But my advice would be to stay confident and stay in... You won't be disappointed at all!

There is quite a bit of "dude chill out comments" going on here, like it's ok for a company to behave like the actors in the movie, and all is going to be ok. I guess my 'dude' days are over, cause I seriously have problems dropping some serious money, on something that could go south.
More power to those that can. Too many red flags for me. Back to your regular scheduled program.

I hope so! But still doesn't change the shitty feelings that people are getting if they want their money back, as they were promised from day one.

I wasn't aware it was any kind of secret at all. It rhymes with Harry from Pinball Strife.

Consider the good rep "Harry" has with the community I can't see how anyone would unhappy about that.

Is that the name of Robin's new Pre-Order forum?

Orange?

Guys if new shit has come to light stop blathering about it and tell us man!

then you must never spend any money at all.

Yes but you're in Europe so it would be like the US side dealing with JJP. Not as easy to stay confident.

I was going to make payment deposit #3 last week, but it's requiring me to also pay for deposit #4 (which technically isn't due until April). While I appreciate DP's recent efforts, I'm still not completely comfortable with dropping the full "load" for this machine. I'll let them remind me to pay it.

What conclusions have I drawn? I simply stated that I requested a refund, Barry does nothing more than blame Phil and that is a pathetic way to run a company. Am I wrong?

No walter you're not wrong, you're just an asshole

Ah yes, you know all. Why not put an end to everyone's concern and share? If you can't than urge Barry to. If you can not admit there is a serious problem with the way this company is conducting itself than you are an unreasonable person and I ask that you put me on ignore because I will continue to state my concern until people are refunded based on the terms that DP promised from day one. At no point did I not hold up my end of this arrangement, all my payments were made, why are you saying it is okay for them to not hold up thier end? Because it's a great title and they are great guys? Sorry that's just not how the world works.

Agree, I am an asshole, an asshole with no answers other than finger pointing and 8500 short in the bank.

Email Barry and voice your concerns.
I have and I now have no concerns.

Very interesting your posts about stern and then DP. You really paid in full? Have you emailed Barry?

I have emailed Barry. His response was that he told Phil to refund me and that hopefully he will. I didn't pay in full, I was purchasing two games. I'll send Barry another follow up email. I guess I don't understand all the secrecy around why everyone feels so at ease all of a sudden. Why not share with everyone the information that eliminates the concerns?

"my end of this arrangement, all my payments were made,"

"Agree, I am an asshole, an asshole with no answers other than finger pointing and 8500 short in the bank."

Nothing wrong with wanting some answers . Barry has answered all my emails within a day. I am sure he will get back to you. Your posts are a bit misleading though . So you have 4250 x 2 in?