(Topic ID: 112377)

DP USA Refund - Still Want the Game


By JDinNOVA

5 years ago



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#2601 5 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

I don't believe that's accurate. DP went out of their way to be sure everyone knew the games at expo we pre-alpha. I highly doubt the code at expo is anywhere near complete.

This displays actually stated it was pre alpha code.

#2602 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

hey, if these two guys tell me they have friends in on this talking to them daily about it and that is why they are in here on all these pages keeping this going I am sold on their reasoning. Like I said what's the buy in?
Additionally we stopped this silly banter this afternoon. Nice of you to re hash.
Plus again I stand by folks who buy new games vs those that don't in new game threads. Again not good or bad but why are folks that don't buy from any of the newer game companies so involved in these threads? How about you. What game are you in on?

We're going to always disagree about this. Just because I cannot afford a machine does not mean I can't comment on it. I will never understand that point of view, especially when most of the thread is mostly a discussion on business ethics in general rather specific game related 'things'.

11
#2603 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

The value of my post ....

You know, Hiwatha, YOUR posts are proof positive that just because someone is "In On A Game" doesn't necessarily mean their posts are useful in ANY way.

Your last, what, 15-20 posts in this thread have served ZERO purpose other than to trash someone else for having an opinion.

So where's this "inherent value" you as one of the "TBL Plaque Dudes" brings to the discussion?

Sidenote, any self-respecting TBL fan should be ok with someone else stating "you know, just like their opinion, man"

11
#2604 5 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

No I never said to base it on pre alpha expo code.
I'm saying the game isn't going to be super deep (based on people that directly talked with Barry ) So I just can't justify the money on visual bling and Jesus, Goodman, Dude quotes to carry it if the game gets old quick. That's a chunk of change to listen to a soundtrack of music.

This is a post I cant leave unanswered. I have heard Barry state in earlier days that TBL was going to have a deep ruleset. So I checked with Barry in person this morning again and he repeated this and doesnt understand how the story of a shallow ruleset has come to life. As with more forumtalk it just isnt true.

So, deep ruleset it is direct from DP and not via friends

#2605 5 years ago
Quoted from calvin12:

This displays actually stated it was pre alpha code.

Yep, I was there and played it.

#2606 5 years ago
Quoted from Wamprat:

I could be wrong but I don't know of any other business that does this start up/ pre order thing before actually opening it's doors with product on the shelves/ showroom floor.
Regardless, I hope TBL gets made, released and is a killer game.

Well, pinball IS special

Quoted from badbilly27:

Do you pre-order owners really care that much about a rug, chrome and plaque? I almost feel like these pinball companies are treating collectors like little kids.

All pinball owners are big versions of little kids, surely you knew that...

So, if you buy a TAF gold, you don´t worry about whether it has the plaque or not I take it... providing it´s got the gold trim, plastics and ROM... Like it or not, agree with it or not, but plaques with certificates of authenticity do mean something in this hobby... Look at all the Stern LEs...

By the way, even before this Achiever´s plaque thing came along, wasn´t it the case that the games for VIPs would have some sort of plaque with a serial number anyway... making that the only thing to distinguish between a pre-ordered game and one bought afterwards with the extras?

Speaking as a pre-order person myself, it was certainly a tough decision... but in the end I decided to do it based on the rug... I didn´t know about the chrome trim... I actually thought the rug was exclusive to VIPs, but that proved to be a misunderstanding on my part... The other reason for getting in was that I had a feeling that getting it will help the project move along.

#2607 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Buy hey if ga,es are late come fall I promise to be twice the dick I ever was about woz dates. And that's hard to do but I am one of the only folks capable of being that dickish.

Personally I wouldn´t kick up a fuss if the game is late at all... deadlines are missed all the time... the last thing I want is a half baked game just so it meets the deadline... and if people are working under stress due to hassle from customers demanding the game on time, that´s gonna make it that much harder to focus on getting the game polished! Thake your time DP, don´t rush my game... I´m personally happy to go to the back of the line and wait for bugs to be address before my game gets made!!

Also, don´t forget that these guys have had their hands full of other issues to deal with in the last month, so they deserve some slack on deadlines I think!

#2608 5 years ago

what are the pros of the preorder? 500$ discount or something else?
because I don't the upside of risking 8500 bucks just to save 500..

#2609 5 years ago
Quoted from Rensh:

This is a post I cant leave unanswered. I have heard Barry state in earlier days that TBL was going to have a deep ruleset. So I checked with Barry in person this morning again and he repeated this and doesnt understand how the story of a shallow ruleset has come to life. As with more forumtalk it just isnt true.
So, deep ruleset it is direct from DP and not via friends

Define deep.... IJ4, Iron Man, Tron, LOTR, AC/DC.

#2610 5 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

No I never said to base it on pre alpha expo code.
I'm saying the game isn't going to be super deep (based on people that directly talked with Barry ) So I just can't justify the money on visual bling and Jesus, Goodman, Dude quotes to carry it if the game gets old quick. That's a chunk of change to listen to a soundtrack of music.

Not sure how anyone not working on the code could asses the depth of code at this state in development (did Barry tell some they were aiming for "shallow code"? - seems unlikely). But sounds like you should just wait to play it before deciding.

#2611 5 years ago
Quoted from JDee:

what are the pros of the preorder? 500$ discount or something else?
because I don't the upside of risking 8500 bucks just to save 500..

- 500 bucks
- a rug
- chrome trim

And the fact that without any preorders, this machine would most likely never ever get built at all, so even the potential buyers of a finshed product would never get any TBL for their money.

-1
#2612 5 years ago
Quoted from Biv:

And the fact that without any preorders, this machine would most likely never ever get built at all, so even the potential buyers of a finshed product would never get any TBL for their money.

Nail, you have just been hit on the head!

#2613 5 years ago
Quoted from Phil-DP-USA:

Nail, you've just been hit head on.

Quoted from pinballslave:

Nail, you have just been hit on the head!

Good to see that you and Phil are now in sync.

#2614 5 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

Just because I cannot afford a machine

I apologize. In no way affording a machine has anything to do with my point. As an example there are die hard Williams guys who can buy anything they want. But they hate Sterns. So for them to be all up in Stern discussions seems odd.

Like I said comments are one thing but folks who have no interest in being a customer spending a lot of energy in a thread about a specific company with no reason does not seem helpful to me.
But like I said before another poster said it was so I stand wrong and I am ok with that.
Hell I have even thumbed up some of your posts. Yesterday I was just pissed to see this being dragged out while we know DP is working on it. So it was more my frustration of non involved digging up dirt while we wait to see what is really going on.

Its all good and its just pinball ; )

#2615 5 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Not sure how anyone not working on the code could asses the depth of code at this state in development (did Barry tell some they were aiming for "shallow code"? - seems unlikely). But sounds like you should just wait to play it before deciding.

DP were inviting people to send suggestions of what they´d like to see in the game in the hope of getting lot´s of creative suggestions... I sent some ideas myself... To me, this can only go towards an expectation that the code will be good... they are wanting to listen to potential buyers (unless it was a marketing trick of course). My gut feel is that they will spend the time to make the code good... these guys are players too, and this being their first machine, they´re going to want to impress the community I´d suggest... Of course, this is not fact, so I apologise to Sjsilver and others only wanting to hear facts

#2616 5 years ago

Figuring this debacle will push them even harder to knock it out of the park to win people back.

#2617 5 years ago

Accepted

#2618 5 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Not sure how anyone not working on the code could asses the depth of code at this state in development (did Barry tell some they were aiming for "shallow code"? - seems unlikely). But sounds like you should just wait to play it before deciding.

At NO point did I say it would be shallow. I said it wouldn't be super deep.
My understanding it's on par to a late 90s WMS pin like a Dredd or Roadshow. At this point I'm waiting on the sidelines.

#2619 5 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

I said it wouldn't be super deep.

I actually hope this ends up being the case... I´m not a fan of overly deep games, they end up being more of a chore to figure out/complete... Medium-deep would be good for me...

Personally speaking a game that´s about as hard to complete as Roadshow but with a bit more going on than start mode, do mode (if you want) start next mode, repeat to end of game, would suit me fine...

What´s happened to all the arguing, speculation and negativity in this thread... it´s kind of boring without it

#2620 5 years ago
Quoted from Rensh:

This is a post I cant leave unanswered. I have heard Barry state in earlier days that TBL was going to have a deep ruleset. So I checked with Barry in person this morning again and he repeated this and doesnt understand how the story of a shallow ruleset has come to life. As with more forumtalk it just isnt true.
So, deep ruleset it is direct from DP and not via friends

Thank you for asking directly, I was a bit put off by that comment and its good to know they plan on making the game deep.

#2621 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Like I said comments are one thing but folks who have no interest in being a customer spending a lot of energy in a thread about a specific company with no reason does not seem helpful to me.

You realize you are a huge incredible hypocrite right? Do you want a gross long list of examples of you doing exactly this ^^^^^. Someone already (correctly) called you out for doing it and you backtracked.

#2622 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

You realize you are a huge incredible hypocrite right? Do you want a gross long list of examples of you doing exactly this ^^^^^. Someone already (correctly) called you out for doing it and you backtracked.

That´s more like it

#2623 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

hey, if these two guys tell me they have friends in on this talking to them daily about it and that is why they are in here on all these pages keeping this going I am sold on their reasoning. Like I said what's the buy in?

Quoted from Hwawonyu:

But like I said before another poster said it was so I stand wrong and I am ok with that.

Nope, like I said I was involved when my friend was. And I am a buyer of new games. Came darn close to buying WOZ 3 times and went to EXpo planning on buying the Hobbit. In on this game and many more.
Regardless of those reasons for being involved I stay out of your Hobbit threads as a rule. Worst case a comment but I am not over there asking where December deliveries are.
Besides that I apologized to them as seen above. So once again despite our differnces and where I have supported your service you still prove you are an asshat once again.
Cheers

#2624 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Nope, like I said I was involved when my friend was. And I am a buyer of new games. Came darn close to buying WOZ 3 times and went to EXpo planning on buying the Hobbit. In on this game and many more.
Regardless of those reasons for being involved I stay out of your Hobbit threads as a rule. Worst case a comment but I am not over there asking where December deliveries are.
Besides that I apologized to them as seen above. So once again despite our differnces and where I have supported your service you still prove you an asshat once again.
Cheers

Keep telling yourself that if it lets you sleep at night but people see you for what you are. A raging hypocrite that only opens his mouth to switch feet. That massive thumbs downs you received already in this thread on the topic and the fact you have been called by other people who said the exact same thing just highlights that fact. You couldn't just be a man and say "sorry I was an asshole in previous threads, now I see how the other half lives" when a game you are passionate about comes under Fire or scrutiny.

Exposed. But now it's "all good it's only pinball" when it's you.

-1
#2625 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

So it was more my frustration of non involved digging up dirt while we wait to see what is really going on.

Quoted from Hwawonyu:

But like I said before another poster said it was so I stand wrong and I am ok with that.

You are freaking nuts dude. I flat out said its the emotional thing. Its all emotional. Its fn pinball.
I even said going back I thumbs uped the guy. Seemed pretty clear. Guilty of being human for better or worse. Yup.
I also flat out said I was being dickish. I certainly put up with lots of other folks doing the same when they are up in it. That's the beauty of the community. For most. Like I said before. I spent a couple of grand on glass from PDI and have not spent money on games or anything else with JJP mainly because of you. So keep being you ; )

-2
#2626 5 years ago

On a different note has anyone asked DP about their playfields. I wonder what process they will be using. I hear some companies have huge chips breaking off like crazy.

#2627 5 years ago

What is longest thread in pinside history?
This one sure has potential.

-2
#2628 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

You are freaking nuts dude. I flat out said its the emotional thing. Its all emotional. Its fn pinball.
I even said going back I thumbs uped the guy. Seemed pretty clear. Guilty of being human for better or worse. Yup.
I also flat out said I was being dickish. I certainly put up with lots of other folks doing the same when they are up in it. That's the beauty of the community. For most. Like I said before. I spent a couple of grand on glass from PDI and have not spent money on games or anything else with JJP mainly because of you. So keep being you ; )

You're so full of it you can't even admit when your wrong. I also called you out in the hobbit thread about lying about that too. If you'd like I can link to that post too. A simple apology would have been sufficient but it doesn't seem like your capable of that. Carry on

#2629 5 years ago

Christ dude.
I apologized to the dudes. I was doing exactly what I should not have. had a bad day. Was a dick. Apologized but will again.

#2630 5 years ago
Quoted from Wamprat:

What is longest thread in pinside history?
This one sure has potential.

It has some stiff comp next to Xmen at over 9250 posts and 186 glorious pages of reading X-citement!

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/x-men

#2631 5 years ago
Quoted from LITZ:

It has some stiff comp next to Xmen at over 9250 posts.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/x-men

Oh yeah I forgot about the xmen debacle.
I must have smoked those bad times away.

#2632 5 years ago
Quoted from LITZ:

It has some stiff comp next to Xmen at over 9250 posts and 186 glorious pages of reading X-citement!

Holy shit, that even beats what I thought was the longest thread ever:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/500-giftcard-pinside-contest-begins-now

#2633 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

On a different note has anyone asked DP about their playfields. I wonder what process they will be using. I hear some companies have huge chips breaking off like crazy.

Wow.... and I was really taken in by your heart-felt apology not 1-2 posts above.... (insert eyeroll)

Obviously a fresh new year hasn't cleared up this Acute-Keyboard-Diarrhea you seem to be afflicted with.

Here's my (unsolicited advice):
Grab an old-fashioned glass.
Add ice
Kahlua
Vodka
Cream.

And step away from he keyboard.

Cheers!

#2634 5 years ago

Correction:

Old-fashioned glass
Ice
K̶a̶h̶l̶u̶a̶ Coffee-flavored rum-based liqueur from Mexico*
Vodka
Cream

* Specific contents not yet approved.

#2635 5 years ago
Quoted from Wamprat:

Oh yeah I forgot about the xmen debacle.
I must have smoked those bad times away.

No way am I going to read the X-Man debacle thread to see if it beats this. Can someone summarize?

I bet no True Taxi Cab Confessions from those running the company like this one.

#2636 5 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

I actually hope this ends up being the case... I´m not a fan of overly deep games, they end up being more of a chore to figure out/complete... Medium-deep would be good for me...
Personally speaking a game that´s about as hard to complete as roadshow but with a bit more going on than start mode, do mode (if you want) start next mode, repeat to end of game, would suit me fine...
What´s happened to all the arguing, speculation and negativity in this thread... it´s kind of boring without it

I see your point on overly deep games. But one thing about super deep (or deeper) games is the value you get and the track record of those games that stay in a collection. ie:LOTR, Spider-Man, AC/DC, TSPP, WOZ and others that some would argue AFM, MB, and MM. They all share a common denominator Keith and Lyman. These 2 guys are the best at what they do. They have the ability to grasp the casual player with easy to learn basics of rules to "have fun" and want to play more and get more into the game as well as a progressive depth to the rule set that much more seasoned skilled players want and those of us that buy the games want in a home purchase.

DP is well on the way to create the same thing, but it's not proven yet. Once done then we can judge. Fair enough. But yes, medium-deep might be a better way to put it I'm not hating, just waiting.

#2637 5 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

and others that some would argue AFM, MB, and MM.

I'm quite positive the rules won't be less deep than those games you mentioned, so maybe you don't have the right idea of how deep the rules will become? I think Barry meant not WOZ-deep or 30+ modes like in the Hobbit when he talked to your friends.

#2638 5 years ago

I like pie

#2639 5 years ago

Well, to be fair, you only apologized once, you just mentioned you did the other times.

Once is enough, it's mote than you usually get here, so that's a good thing in my book.

#2640 5 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Wow.... and I was really taken in by your heart-felt apology not 1-2 posts above.... (insert eyeroll)
Obviously a fresh new year hasn't cleared up this Acute-Keyboard-Diarrhea you seem to be afflicted with.
Here's my (unsolicited advice):
Grab an old-fashioned glass.
Add ice
Kahlua
Vodka
Cream.
And step away from he keyboard.
Cheers!

Exactly. He just can't help it.

16
#2641 5 years ago

So while all of this Pinside drama, speculation, personal attacks and panic has been going on, I've been quietly dealing directly with Barry and Dutch Pinball to obtain my answers.

We all have choices to make and I choose to leave my money with Dutch Pinball. My reasons are my own but I'm satisfied.

Best wishes with whatever you decide.

#2642 5 years ago

I'm with you Mr68.

#2643 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

You're so full of it you can't even admit when your wrong. I also called you out in the hobbit thread about lying about that too. If you'd like I can link to that post too. A simple apology would have been sufficient but it doesn't seem like your capable of that. Carry on

dude, this is a pinball forum, not some game that you win by forcing someone into submission apologies. Lighten up a bit..

#2644 5 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

I see your point on overly deep games. But one thing about super deep (or deeper) games is the value you get and the track record of those games that stay in a collection. ie:LOTR, Spider-Man, AC/DC, TSPP, WOZ and others that some would argue AFM, MB, and MM. They all share a common denominator Keith and Lyman. These 2 guys are the best at what they do. They have the ability to grasp the casual player with easy to learn basics of rules to "have fun" and want to play more and get more into the game as well as a progressive depth to the rule set that much more seasoned skilled players want and those of us that buy the games want in a home purchase.

DP is well on the way to create the same thing, but it's not proven yet. Once done then we can judge. Fair enough. But yes, medium-deep might be a better way to put it I'm not hating, just waiting.

I'm with you on the excellent ability of Keith and Lyman to satisfy all skill levels and pull people into the game, that's for sure... they are the masters! I'm probably an impatient player and want to know the full depth of the game in a relatively short space of time (1 to 3 months)... if I'm still lost after this I tend to get a bit frustrated I guess... and if I find I have to think too hard to keep track of where I am and what's best to do next, it hurts my head too much... I prefer backgammon to chess for example

#2645 5 years ago

Got my shirt!image-949.jpg

#2646 5 years ago

haven't read what's going on and not doing the deposit thing, but will buy a NIB from somebody here when they start appearing.

#2647 5 years ago
Quoted from 35mm:

haven't read what's going on and not doing the deposit thing, but will buy a NIB from somebody here when they start appearing.

That makes sense, .

#2648 5 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

dude, this is a pinball forum, not some game that you win by forcing someone into submission apologies. Lighten up a bit..

Wait...what??

#2649 5 years ago

Yeah. By that logic it's totally ok for him to come into every thread pertaining to games he doesn't like and harass people with a generally nasty and belligerent attitude but when it's done to him and he gets all QQ about it he's just "human". That isn't the adjective I would have used and quite frankly I'm glad because karma is a big fat bitch.

-1
#2650 5 years ago

Lumps taken where lumps due : )
And you are being very one sided. As I have said before. You know darn well I have defended your points on service.
Regardless, after the fact I agree that anyone should say exactly how they feel. The best part is you are now all over this thread doing what you seem to be very pissed at me for. Its our vicious cycle.

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