(Topic ID: 112377)

DP USA Refund - Still Want the Game


By JDinNOVA

4 years ago



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  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Xerico
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There are 3821 posts in this topic. You are on page 45 of 77.
#2201 4 years ago

I'm not.sure I understand the logic of how Phil screwed over a customer. He returned money, not stole it. That's not screwing anyone over.

#2202 4 years ago
Quoted from JujuDaPinsider:

i'd buy their demo BOP 2.0 for $8k over TBL

I'm with you. I wish DP would do a BOP remake with the 2.0 upgrade.

#2203 4 years ago

Phil has control over an account that has, or had a lot more money in it than what he refunded. Dutch Pinball is saying the money is still there and they are trying to take control. Phil has the cash and has stopped all communications with customers. I find it odd that some people in this thread seem to have zero sympathy for those of us who might have just been taken for $4500. If this is not put right, you guys do realize this game will NEVER be made.

#2204 4 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

I'm not.sure I understand the logic of how Phil screwed over a customer. He returned money, not stole it. That's not screwing anyone over.

Phil has NOT refunded anything prior October pre orders. I am a customer that has gotten NO money back. And asked for it many times. There are many others in the same boat as me.

#2205 4 years ago

DP-USA will get straightened out. I expect all requests for refunds will be honored and monies refunded. Still have a deposit of $2.5k in play, but requested it be returned. Once I see games being shipped, I expect to be a DP customer once again. In the interim, Pinside is encouraged to remain calm (would be a first) and spend time with their families this holiday season. After all, that is what is truly important.

By March, you should see the impact from licensing issues and be able to judge pics and vids of a production ready pin for yourselves. Software will be developed enough to evaluate game play too. My weakness is not having enough patience for this to unfold. It is really hard though, because TBL is such an ideal theme, but I am trying.

#2206 4 years ago
Quoted from ozno:

If this is not put right, you guys do realize this game will NEVER be made.

What???

#2207 4 years ago

I'd like to add that BOP 2.0 has shipped in Europe and that they are very close to shipping in the US. I hope that finishing the kit will restore some confidence that they will complete TBL. I rode the BBB dinosaur back in the day. It's really frustrating to hear "it's coming, it's coming" and not know what's really going on. I feel confident that it'll all work out.

#2208 4 years ago
Quoted from awarner:

I'd like to add that BOP 2.0 has shipped in Europe and that they are very close to shipping in the US. I hope that finishing the kit will restore some confidence that they will complete TBL. I rode the BBB dinosaur back in the day. It's really frustrating to hear "it's coming, it's coming" and not know what's really going on. I feel confident that it'll all work out.

I think it is unfortunately another source of uncertainty that the european BOP2 kits have shipped some time ago, yet no sign of the american BOP2s. It suggests the problem is not of development, but of logistics/funding, which is worrisome. And the fact that BOP2, strictly speaking, is NOT a DP product, but DP monies have been (possibly entirely legitimately) transferred towards the BOP2 project makes things seem more worrisome/pyramidal (and I don't have ANY inside info... I'm just commenting on appearances).

#2209 4 years ago

I got an email from them this weekend, asking for details about the aux power supply in my game. They appear to be shipping very soon. I am excited!

#2210 4 years ago
Quoted from zsciaeount:

I got an email from them this weekend, asking for details about the aux power supply in my game. They appear to be shipping very soon. I am excited!

This is why I posted that it was close to shipping in the US. And honestly, it HAS to be finished before TBL so they can dedicate full-time effort to TBL. I'm excited as well.

#2211 4 years ago

Rest assured I was in Chicago last week and saw the all U.S. kits there.
The hard drives needed to be flashed and the artwork attached to the speaker panels.

I would guess these will ship early January

#2212 4 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

Rest assured I was in Chicago last week and saw the all U.S. kits there.
The hard drives needed to be flashed and the artwork attached to the speaker panels.
I would guess these will ship early January

Prior to shipment began in EU, someone posted a pic of a pile of parts etc. We all had fun guessing how many kits were destined for EU vs US vs AU. Did you take any pics or can you haphazard a guess of how many US kits there were / are going to be made?

#2213 4 years ago

The invoice Phil posted was for 30 pcs

#2214 4 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

I'm not.sure I understand the logic of how Phil screwed over a customer. He returned money, not stole it. That's not screwing anyone over.

He just created a hell of a panic that might kill DP and with that, a lot of cash that people payed up front. How can you not understand that??

#2215 4 years ago
Quoted from Rick432:

I think it is unfortunately another source of uncertainty that the european BOP2 kits have shipped some time ago, yet no sign of the american BOP2s. It suggests the problem is not of development, but of logistics/funding, which is worrisome. And the fact that BOP2, strictly speaking, is NOT a DP product, but DP monies have been (possibly entirely legitimately) transferred towards the BOP2 project makes things seem more worrisome/pyramidal (and I don't have ANY inside info... I'm just commenting on appearances).

Bop components, stateside

image-671.jpg
#2216 4 years ago
Quoted from bangerjay:

Bop components, stateside

+ 1

...but why aren't they a blurr on the way out the door????

#2217 4 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

+ 1
...but why aren't they a blurr on the way out the door????

That pic is a week old ...

#2218 4 years ago

I think this goes a long way to calming people's fears. Nothing instills confidence white like pictures of customers with their newest additional parts and upgrades to their machines.

I may have to get myself on the other list for a 2.0 upgrade

#2219 4 years ago
Quoted from bangerjay:

That pic is a week old ...

ive seen a few complete displays too. they are being worked on.

#2220 4 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

+ 1
...but why aren't they a blurr on the way out the door????

That's my fault; I was there on Friday distracting Scott from assembling displays.

(Every word of this post is true, except this one: yawp.)

#2221 4 years ago
Quoted from TheKorn:

That's my fault; I was there on Friday distracting Scott from assembling displays.
(Every word of this post is true, except this one: yawp.)

This makes me ThePissed!

-3
#2222 4 years ago

TBL a will never see the light of day if the USA customers get screwed out of their money. It's in EVERYONE's best interest to make sure it all gets sorted. DP is responsible for that money, not Phil. The machine will not be produced if the finances aren't fixed because Universal has zero interest in defaming its intellectual property for a few pennies. That's why Barry knows he only has a few days to fix this.

#2223 4 years ago
Quoted from ozno:

TBL a will never see the light of day if the USA customers get screwed out of their money. It's in EVERYONE's best interest to make sure it all gets sorted. DP is responsible for that money, not Phil. The machine will not be produced if the finances aren't fixed because Universal has zero interest in defaming its intellectual property for a few pennies. That's why Barry knows he only has a few days to fix this.

Do you alway automatically jump to the worst possible situation?

You've explained the absolute worst case scenario...
May I present a few other alternative since you or I don't have access to DP books.

A) your right and we're fucked, no one gets a game US, Europe, worldwide zero games made.
I see this as highly unlikely. They have European sales and besides they produced the prototypes with their own money. They also had the license secured prior to taking any deposits. This is the doom and gloom worst case imo.

B) Phil is bought out or removed and the gears keep rolling. This situation would be the most ideal imo. Besides if Phil takes the money from the account he's facing serious federal charges. Even if he pays himself back for money he has put in he's still operating against federal law. His reputation and family will not be well off.

C) perhaps Phil keeps a lock on the money for as long as possible and DP is forced to find outside investors to cover about $500,000 to get the games made and developed. Shitty situation but in the end everyone gets the game who paid into it. Dutch pinball starts with a major debt to pay off.

Since he only had access to DP USA PayPal he doesn't have all the money. The square money and European sales are safe regardless of the what Phil does. Also they have some cash sales too.
I can say this confidently DP is trying to become a major pinball manufacturer.
Hopefully they can overcome this problem professionally and easily.

It's been 9 day since the very public mishap, I hope they have a resolution and are able to offer refunds to any customer who wants out (as clearly stated on their website) before the months end.
Certainly before they expect people to make the next payment.
Ultimately if it takes 1 month from Phils meltdown to issue a refund that's not bad at all.
I resent my refunded payment to them in hopes that they do succeed.

#2224 4 years ago

Ok guys, I got it:
ByWp3cbCYAAIFjJ[1].jpg

#2225 4 years ago

I was told from a DP employee to expect an update from dp before the next payment is due.

#2226 4 years ago

Just made my third payment, I never had a doubt that the pin does not get made.
Though we may see it not before Q3 or Q4 2015....

#2227 4 years ago
Quoted from Biv:

I never had a doubt that the pin does not get made

#2228 4 years ago
Quoted from foxtj24:

I was told from a DP employee to expect an update from dp before the next payment is due.

Well that would make a lot of sense wouldn't it. More updates, more warm and fuzzy feelings, more payments made. Good for DP

I wonder why others don't get that basic concept?

#2229 4 years ago

My next payment is send ready too!

#2230 4 years ago

With the next payment looming I am hoping we get a nice update soon!

-1
#2231 4 years ago

Hehe, never saw people so happy for sending in their money, .

I think, not sure, even when i had alot of money, i would not pre order. Maybe only if the builders are my friends, to support them.

Can always buy it when it is out and ready to ship.

#2232 4 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

Hehe, never saw people so happy for sending in their money, .
I think, not sure, even when i had alot of money, i would not pre order. Maybe only if the builders are my friends, to support them.
Can always buy it when it is out and ready to ship.

Not true, most of these projects require your cash up front to even think about production.

#2233 4 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

Not true, most of these projects require your cash up front to even think about production.

Bullshit!!! Why don't these guys go out an mortgage their homes, cash in all their savings, get personal loans, get business loans, do what most people do who are passionate and want to start up a business.

They choose this route because it is an easy road to go. Announce a machine with nothing more than an idea and maybe a few sketches and ask for money. Easy as pie, there's no bankers to deal with, no quarterly or annual statement to provide to anyone and they don't need to risk their homes or savings. It's a sweet, sweet deal for a start up a company with this model.

I don't care if it costs millions to start a pinball company. This form of financing places the majority of risk on the backs of the pre-buyers and very little risk on the builders. Of the current manufacturers, only Spooky and Stern have a model I respect.

QSS

#2234 4 years ago
Quoted from QuickSilverShelb:

Bullshit!!! Why don't these guys go out an mortgage their homes, cash in all their savings, get personal loans, get business loans, do what most people do who are passionate and want to start up a business.
They choose this route because it is an easy road to go. Announce a machine with nothing more than an idea and maybe a few sketches and ask for money. Easy as pie, there's no bankers to deal with, no quarterly or annual statement to provide to anyone and they don't need to risk their homes or savings. It's a sweet, sweet deal for a start up a company with this model.
I don't care if it costs millions to start a pinball company. This form of financing places the majority of risk on the backs of the pre-buyers and very little risk on the builders. Of the current manufacturers, only Spooky and Stern have a model I respect.
QSS

Even more bullshit! As far as I know DP did not just announce a pinball machine and obligated pre-orders to come in to have the machine actually made. No one is/was forced to make a pre-order and by doing so making the final product possible. I do believe that even without any upfront pre-orders TBL got made anyway!

- That doesn't make it utmost convenient that there are enough nutheads doing so...

#2235 4 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

Not true, most of these projects require your cash up front to even think about production.

I agree that these companies need cash up front to start, but they do not need buyers cash. They should get a bank loan, finance it themselves, or find another way to finance their start up business without customers taking the risk.

#2236 4 years ago
Quoted from HomeBrew:

I agree that these companies need cash up front to start, but they do not need buyers cash. They should get a bank loan, finance it themselves, or find another way to finance their start up business without customers taking the risk.

I'd feel better if they borrowed some money from a bank. That would mean at least the bank vetted them and thought they were a good bet (or more likely they had enough liquidity to where their personal guarantee was sufficient to get a loan...).

That said, banks are just not lending money to starts up much these days.

Has anyone heard anything further from Phil? Any more refunds hit?

#2237 4 years ago
Quoted from QuickSilverShelb:

Bullshit!!! Why don't these guys go out an mortgage their homes, cash in all their savings, get personal loans, get business loans, do what most people do who are passionate and want to start up a business.
They choose this route because it is an easy road to go. Announce a machine with nothing more than an idea and maybe a few sketches and ask for money. Easy as pie, there's no bankers to deal with, no quarterly or annual statement to provide to anyone and they don't need to risk their homes or savings. It's a sweet, sweet deal for a start up a company with this model.
I don't care if it costs millions to start a pinball company. This form of financing places the majority of risk on the backs of the pre-buyers and very little risk on the builders. Of the current manufacturers, only Spooky and Stern have a model I respect.
QSS

You realize spooky is half now half upon delivery right?
And even Charlie said the company wouldn't have been able to exist without that half deposits on games not yet built.

19
#2238 4 years ago

If you are still paying, you are not wise. I requested a refund 2 weeks ago and have not received it. Look, I am a pin collector and I own 2 businesses. I love pins as much if not more than any of you. I have $35K worth of pins. But when things in business start to go awry, that means trouble. Now I am currently out $6K and have had only a single email from Barry who says "they are trying to figure it out." I am not trying to tell you what to do, but I will tell you that business takes VERY LITTLE to fail and drama is drama. I will be more than willing to wait in line and pay for my TBL pin after it gets made. But as of now $6K in a no interest account with drama and no official launch date means trouble. Put up all the money you want...and I am going to admit that the promo machine was great. But be smart. There is a problem when money does not flow properly in a business and partners are jumping ship.

Trust me people, drama is worse than admitted failure in a business.

All that being said. If it gets made, I will lay down the 9K and pay for it. It is a great looking machine.

Oh and lastly...after 2 weeks of no refund Paypal has been notified as well as US Bank and Bank of America. I am not Fucking around. It says refunds are no questions...why am I still high and dry? Hate to be that guy...but I would caution you...

#2239 4 years ago

Oh and one other thing...

I love all the comments about "jumping ship," and "why do you always run away...." Let me tell you guys something. When you run a business, it is not "jumping ship," it is called smart money. I want a TBL Pin...really really really bad. I was at their VIP party in 2 cities. I know all 3 of the guys involved and I am even facebook friends with 2 of them but dollars are dollars. Buy remember money has no emotion. I don't fault someone for buying, you should not fault someone for selling...oh and especially on a product THAT HAS NEVER SEEN PRODUCTION!!!

Peace.

-6
#2240 4 years ago
Quoted from twominds:

If you are still paying, you are not wise. I requested a refund 2 weeks ago and have not received it. Look, I am a pin collector and I own 2 businesses. I love pins as much if not more than any of you. I have $35K worth of pins. But when things in business start to go awry, that means trouble. Now I am currently out $6K and have had only a single email from Barry who says "they are trying to figure it out." I am not trying to tell you what to do, but I will tell you that business takes VERY LITTLE to fail and drama is drama. I will be more than willing to wait in line and pay for my TBL pin after it gets made. But as of now $6K in a no interest account with drama and no official launch date means trouble. Put up all the money you want...and I am going to admit that the promo machine was great. But be smart. There is a problem when money does not flow properly in a business and partners are jumping ship.
Trust me people, drama is worse than admitted failure in a business.
All that being said. If it gets made, I will lay down the 9K and pay for it. It is a great looking machine.
Oh and lastly...after 2 weeks of no refund Paypal has been notified as well as US Bank and Bank of America. I am not Fucking around. It says refunds are no questions...why am I still high and dry? Hate to be that guy...but I would caution you...

Bro there is no way your four pins are worth over 5k....just saying
I hope you get your refund soon.

#2241 4 years ago

What i'm scared about is Phil, stating, he put all this money in purchasing parts all over the world
on his credit card,,
then 60K as well,, I am thinking, he has for sure, taken money out of this account(DP USA) to cover himself, that he should
not of , but it is, what it is, now , there is not enough to refund everyone...
where is that $$$ gonna come from now?

#2242 4 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

Bro there is no way your four pins are worth over 5k....just saying
I hope you get your refund soon.

Dude, I have 20 pins. Who the fuck are you?

#2243 4 years ago

I'm concerned about Phil as well...not so much the DP team

Just Phil I wonder what his motivates are?
He says the lisceanse is fucked...then we learn not really. cabinet and translite have been approved by Universal. PF we might lose the gun and pot leaf, sucks but not a deal breaker imo.
Then he says online he just wants out doesn't care about future profits or his past expenses...ok that shouldn't be too hard. Week of paperwork tops if both parties can work together.

So where's his motive to refund folks and trash DP reputation?
I mean none of his 'evidence' proves anything scandalous.
If anything they prove slander and loss of profits against him not DP.

So I ask again what's his motive?
Me, I just want a kickass pin and a rug to tie the room together.

#2244 4 years ago
Quoted from twominds:

Dude, I have 20 pins. Who the fuck are you?

Guy who reads four pins next to your name.
Sorry you should have clarified

TILTed post. Sign in to be able to view TILTed posts.
12
#2246 4 years ago

Actually, I apologize for that. I have not updated anything on this site that I did not have for sale. I sold 3 of those 4 pins for WAY more than 5K and to be honest my anger toward this whole thing made me be dick head. That is my fault.

#2247 4 years ago

wheres the christmas spirit and love around 'here ? sheesh.

no need to be rude about it.

#2248 4 years ago

Agreed. Apologies again...while I play my Bram Stokers Dracula, next to my Dr. Who and...drinking a beer and wishing I had a Dark Knight 2000...ahhhhh dreams to Santa

#2250 4 years ago

No worries bro, it's alittle stressful I agree.
I along with some friends have resubmitted payments and I have a strong inclining to believe your refund will be processed asap.
Glad to hear you have a killer collection which means you're probably not hurting for money.
Rich or poor no one likes loosing money but I think you will get your refund just not as timely as you wish is all.

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